This is why I've been challenging the validity of Broughy's ca

[FasterThanYou]

I'm just gonna let this thread die away I think. You guys keep missing my point time and time again and I'm getting bored of it.

 

I´m going to give you an easy chance to convince me an Adder is faster than the Entity around CC.

 

http://apexstalkers.enjin.com/forum/m/18025943/viewthread/10782625-trophy-room-honoring-our-event-winners/post/last#last

 

Look for Rockstar tracks time trials, and then for Cutting Coroners. You have two times, the event winner and the current record holder. If you can match these times with an Adder, running solo, no slipstream, no GTA pickups, no going off the circuit to gain speed over the finish line (this is how we did it), I´ll give you what you´re trying to argue.

 

We´re not perfect, but the top 3 times are within a tenth. That means these times are pretty close to the theoretical perfect lap. Go ahead.

[Nivak]

@BSEANO

 

I searched through this thread looking for a video or at least a photo of the scoreboard, but couldn't find anything (maybe I missed it?). If you're worried about sharing your gamertag, you could easily black it out in paint. Considering Broughy provides videos of his fastest laps, I would think a photo would be the minimum you could put up and be taken seriously.

 

When making big claims you really do need to provide some evidence, otherwise it's easily dismissed as hot air.

[gorskiegangsta]

anything with corners wont be accurate. just use the straightline race, no turbo start, etc.

Right, because ALL GTA:O race tracks are in a single straight line /s

[gear999]

This thread=

[Broughy1322]

...car test.

 

I just beat his Entity time in the Adder.

 

He got 54.869 solo around Cutting Coroners in a fully modded Entity, and I just ran a 54.620 solo in my Adder (his record was 55.435).

One single person cannot push EVERY car to its limit. No matter how good of a racer they are, which Broughy clearly is, I'm not taking that away from him.

 

I do have a picture but it obviously has my gamertag in it (race title is above it so I had to show it), but I don't really want to make that public. I may update this post with it soon and just black it out.

 

EDIT: Just as a note, "validity" probably wasn't the best term to use. Obviously his tests are valid, but certain cars actually perform better for different people and when driven differently.

 

Are you sure you really beat my Entity time in an Adder?

 

 

Interesting discussion this, and I appreciate it being kept so civil for the most part. When someone pointed this thread out to me saying people were disagreeing with my tests I almost didn't click, expecting the worst. But I'm a sucker for a good old racing discussion and was pleasantly surprised. I'd been intending to sign up here for a while and figured if I wasn't going to do it now to post here I never would.

 

Some valid comments and concerns here though from the OP and from both sides, however it does seem that most of the concerns are coming from those who haven't actually watched many of my videos or haven't done as much testing as I've done (as OP said, he's only seen 3-4 of my videos and doesn't even own an Entity to use as a comparison). Great Adder lap time from the OP though, although I have seen similar times in racing crews so it's not that I wasn't aware those sort of times are possible.

 

I've had that lap time above for a while now but never felt the need to post it in a video or even mention it because frankly it's just not relevant to what I do. In my testing I take non-optimal lines. They're close, but they aren't 100%. These lines allow for higher levels of repeatability, comparability, and consistency (which is something you want when testing every car 50 times over). I'm only human and of course errors are going to creep in, especially in such widespread testing, but I try to minimise it where possible by being as "consistently on the limit" within reasonable confines as I can be. Those reasonable confines are the lines I use in the testing videos. I've had discussions with a few top guys who've beaten my lap times before, but for the most part they acknowledge the idea that they had to use different lines to do so and end up, after doing some testing of their own, coming to the same conclusions as I've done (which also seems to be the same conclusions that the wider GTA racing community has come to as well).

 

The idea though is that despite taking strictly speaking non-optimal lines for the circuit in question, every car is being driven the same way and still on the limit of what those racing lines will allow (at least as close as possible). An Entity with non optimal lines is quicker than an Adder under the same conditions, in the same way that an Entity is quicker than an Adder when both using optimal lines (as shown above). In the description of each of my testing videos I touch on this, and I also say how comparing between two drivers in different cars using (effectively due to different lines around them) different tracks means very little when there is any comparing to be done. I try to do the best that I can with what I have, and really you would have to test every car in the exactly the same way yourself to get the same level of insight. I'm not trying to be condescending or arrogant (although in bursts I admit I can appear that way in some videos - again why watching more videos is more beneficial to get an overall view of things), it's just that at this moment nobody has come up to me and said I'm wrong, after having put in the same amount of work that I have. It's always "I beat your time with my xxx", totally disregarding any testing of any other cars themselves, or the classic "but I win all the time in my xxx" haha. Because of that it's very hard for me to actually address anything properly. There's just nothing to go on when someone presents a single lap of a single car.

 

I will say though on the topic of racing lines, there absolutely is one optimal way to get around any track. And as has been mentioned, being able to go 75mph around a corner in one car and 100mph in another means than the second car is quite simply faster in the corners than the other. There's no way to "drive around that".

 

Also as I've said by watching one or two videos you aren't getting the full picture. I explain my thoughts much better in the various discussion videos rather than the 20-30 second snippits of each car in the testing videos, and I've said on many occasions that it's how a person drives in a race (and the events that happen in said race) that determine a result much more often than the car itself. I've even posted a video where I win in every super car to show how little car selection actually means. I simply set out to try and do some well considered and robust-as-it-can-be testing on the absolute quickest cars around a track (ie. based on overall abilities rather than just straight line speed) which I thought people might find interesting. Of course there will always be nit picking at various things and I can appreciate that - I can't envisage every problem people will have with every little thing I say. I just try to do the best I can to try and better inform the majority of people about racing in general, that's all. And if you don't want to take my lists as "facts" or even good/correct opinions that's fine. I'm just one guy after all. Testing each car 50+ times is tiring in itself, without adding different tracks, optimal and non-optimal lines, in racing situations and hot laps, with damage and without, average race pace vs absolute top times, what's best for average joe who's normally 5 seconds slower than a top guy vs what's best for said top guy, and any number of other variables. I can't cover everything and I don't want/try/claim to. I just try to give an overall picture as best I can, for entertainment and information.

 

As I said though, interesting discussion nevertheless. I appreciate my little piece of the internet even being a topic of conversation. It's still so weird to be talked about in a forum like this without even knowing about it.

[mikeplugers91]

Broughy is right, people need to see it from a wider perspective.

 

Also on apex stalkers we host various of time trials one also was cutting coroners in super.

I tried it with the entity the adder and the cheetah. Came to the same conclusion as broughy.

I really did so many laps on it, and i disagree with you that you say,

 

"One single person cannot push EVERY car to its limit. No matter how good of a racer they are"

 

I test every car on its limit on this track every car. And i got pictures of them al. Al done in solo sessions, no run up, no nos, no slipstream/catchup, ect ect

 

In the entity i got. 54.122 a high, high 53 is possible on the perfect lap, i screwed up in the last corner 2 times i was on the 53 mark.

In the adder i got. 54.720 also mentioned in my post on the apex forum that the adder can be max 0.3 second faster or something in that area.

 

Today i did testing with the jester i got 55.1xx also mentioned the car does not suit my driving style a 54.7 would be max possible.

 

Today i bought the feltzer to set a time in our Time trial (jester vs feltzer) i got a 54.8xx i only did 10 laps with it. After i bought it so for me it was a new car to drive. Its al about adapting i need 2 laps to see the potentional of the car. And if i do the 3 corner a bit better te keep speed to got under the hospital i can get a 54.4 at the max.

 

I got more and more cars that i did on this track, in time trials. Banshee and coquette i tried everything and pushed it to the max.

 

I got pictures of everytime i set with the cars. Also i spilt the track up into 3 sections so i can see on wich split time i pass a checkpoint and know where to improve and if im on a good maybe record lap.

 

Edit: also if people will watch broughy's videos they will understand what he means. Offcourse i thought the same, i can go faster but that is not the point. He drives the cars on the same way in the same line showing the - and + point of the car. Wich gives you a good indication about the cars performance if you also see the lap times.

 

I can drive on the limit and my driving style is diff then broughy's one, but does that change the aspect of his testing no cause i also came to the same conclusion. His test really show what car is the best to take around that track, and proberly many more tracks.

Edited March 8, 2014 by mikeplugers91

[BrownMattHall]

 

...car test.

 

I just beat his Entity time in the Adder.

 

He got 54.869 solo around Cutting Coroners in a fully modded Entity, and I just ran a 54.620 solo in my Adder (his record was 55.435).

One single person cannot push EVERY car to its limit. No matter how good of a racer they are, which Broughy clearly is, I'm not taking that away from him.

 

I do have a picture but it obviously has my gamertag in it (race title is above it so I had to show it), but I don't really want to make that public. I may update this post with it soon and just black it out.

 

EDIT: Just as a note, "validity" probably wasn't the best term to use. Obviously his tests are valid, but certain cars actually perform better for different people and when driven differently.

 

Are you sure you really beat my Entity time in an Adder?

 

 

Interesting discussion this, and I appreciate it being kept so civil for the most part. When someone pointed this thread out to me saying people were disagreeing with my tests I almost didn't click, expecting the worst. But I'm a sucker for a good old racing discussion and was pleasantly surprised. I'd been intending to sign up here for a while and figured if I wasn't going to do it now to post here I never would.

 

Some valid comments and concerns here though from the OP and from both sides, however it does seem that most of the concerns are coming from those who haven't actually watched many of my videos or haven't done as much testing as I've done (as OP said, he's only seen 3-4 of my videos and doesn't even own an Entity to use as a comparison). Great Adder lap time from the OP though, although I have seen similar times in racing crews so it's not that I wasn't aware those sort of times are possible.

 

I've had that lap time above for a while now but never felt the need to post it in a video or even mention it because frankly it's just not relevant to what I do. In my testing I take non-optimal lines. They're close, but they aren't 100%. These lines allow for higher levels of repeatability, comparability, and consistency (which is something you want when testing every car 50 times over). I'm only human and of course errors are going to creep in, especially in such widespread testing, but I try to minimise it where possible by being as "consistently on the limit" within reasonable confines as I can be. Those reasonable confines are the lines I use in the testing videos. I've had discussions with a few top guys who've beaten my lap times before, but for the most part they acknowledge the idea that they had to use different lines to do so and end up, after doing some testing of their own, coming to the same conclusions as I've done (which also seems to be the same conclusions that the wider GTA racing community has come to as well).

 

The idea though is that despite taking strictly speaking non-optimal lines for the circuit in question, every car is being driven the same way and still on the limit of what those racing lines will allow (at least as close as possible). An Entity with non optimal lines is quicker than an Adder under the same conditions, in the same way that an Entity is quicker than an Adder when both using optimal lines (as shown above). In the description of each of my testing videos I touch on this, and I also say how comparing between two drivers in different cars using (effectively due to different lines around them) different tracks means very little when there is any comparing to be done. I try to do the best that I can with what I have, and really you would have to test every car in the exactly the same way yourself to get the same level of insight. I'm not trying to be condescending or arrogant (although in bursts I admit I can appear that way in some videos - again why watching more videos is more beneficial to get an overall view of things), it's just that at this moment nobody has come up to me and said I'm wrong, after having put in the same amount of work that I have. It's always "I beat your time with my xxx", totally disregarding any testing of any other cars themselves, or the classic "but I win all the time in my xxx" haha. Because of that it's very hard for me to actually address anything properly. There's just nothing to go on when someone presents a single lap of a single car.

 

I will say though on the topic of racing lines, there absolutely is one optimal way to get around any track. And as has been mentioned, being able to go 75mph around a corner in one car and 100mph in another means than the second car is quite simply faster in the corners than the other. There's no way to "drive around that".

 

Also as I've said by watching one or two videos you aren't getting the full picture. I explain my thoughts much better in the various discussion videos rather than the 20-30 second snippits of each car in the testing videos, and I've said on many occasions that it's how a person drives in a race (and the events that happen in said race) that determine a result much more often than the car itself. I've even posted a video where I win in every super car to show how little car selection actually means. I simply set out to try and do some well considered and robust-as-it-can-be testing on the absolute quickest cars around a track (ie. based on overall abilities rather than just straight line speed) which I thought people might find interesting. Of course there will always be nit picking at various things and I can appreciate that - I can't envisage every problem people will have with every little thing I say. I just try to do the best I can to try and better inform the majority of people about racing in general, that's all. And if you don't want to take my lists as "facts" or even good/correct opinions that's fine. I'm just one guy after all. Testing each car 50+ times is tiring in itself, without adding different tracks, optimal and non-optimal lines, in racing situations and hot laps, with damage and without, average race pace vs absolute top times, what's best for average joe who's normally 5 seconds slower than a top guy vs what's best for said top guy, and any number of other variables. I can't cover everything and I don't want/try/claim to. I just try to give an overall picture as best I can, for entertainment and information.

 

As I said though, interesting discussion nevertheless. I appreciate my little piece of the internet even being a topic of conversation. It's still so weird to be talked about in a forum like this without even knowing about it.

 

unexpected/10

good to see youve made an account and chimed in, welcome! Im at a point where as much as i dont want to admit it, the elegy is the best "outright" sports car, same with the entity in supers. does that mean im gonna use them and always win because of it? hell no. im gonna use the cars i like (jester/turismo, formerly 9F/infernus) and im gonna win because im a better driver than my opponent not bc of my car selection.

 

P.S. your pictures broken haha

Edited March 9, 2014 by BrownMattHall

[reform]

Was totally going to come in here to post

as it seemed relevent, but doesn't seem like it's needed now.