Portrayal of Women in GTA

[godforgivesthelostdont]

This is a separate thread from the "female protagonist" thread. I didn't want to derail the discussion there. Also, most importantly, I don't want to establish the mentality that so long as we have a female protagonist, everything is okay because that's sort of like saying "our president is black! racism in this country is officially over!". I would like to see a playable female character at some point, but it's not 100% necessary. And the series could well overcome it's issues with women even without having a playable female character.

 

I'm not saying GTA is way worse than most other games in portraying women. Soul-Calibur, Street Fighter, and even Mario and Zelda aren't much better either. But I do think the metrics we use to judge what is sexist can often be shallow.

 

Whenever I do question the game's treatment of women overall, I usually get the same responses. Not that these are all entirely without merit, but they're not enough to close to the conversation.

 

#1 - "Stop overanalyzing this."

 

Really? In a forum where people write paragraphs about games, it's wrong for me to write paragraphs about a game? I could understand if you said that to me in a subway station if I was talking about GTA to a stranger. But on a gaming site? Nah.

 

#2 - "I know girls who play GTA and they're fine with it."

 

The problem with this is that it's basically saying what is sexist and not sexist is purely based on whether who is saying it is a man or woman. So, if a woman says GTA isn't sexist, it can't be sexist. Not all women have the same opinion on everything. Some women will find it sexist. Some women won't. I can respect a difference of a opinion. I don't respect the idea that it automatically shuts down the disucssion.

 

#3 - "GTA portrays men like total sh*t too (they're robbers, killers, psycho's etc.)"

 

This is perhaps the one I have the most problems with because it's really reductionist. Being portrayed decently is totally different from being portrayed well. I would say Princess Peach and Princess Zelda are decent people, but I wouldn't call them good portrayal of women anymore than Tanisha or Ashley.

 

I think total assholes can be great characters. Look at Trevor, for example. The problem is not that women are portrayed as bad people (men are too). It's that they're NOT portrayed as people. Basically, men are assholes with deep personalities that have their own ambitions and story arcs. Women are assholes with paper-thin personalities and really exist only in relation to the male characters.

 

Basically, female characters don't have to be angelic. They just need to have deep personalities, their own life ambitions, not be idealized, not be overly sexualized and basically follow the same rules as male characters.

 

#4 - "Strippers and prostitutes and such aren't anything outside of what happens in reality. Rockstar is just telling it like it is."

 

The GTA universe has never been a portrayal of reality. Moreso as a facet of it. Moreso the worst aspects of America condensed into one sh*thole. There must be a reason why they choose to include strip clubs in their games rather than bakeries, insurance agencies or furniture stores. I think Rockstar at this point knows the gaming demographic that companies have traditionally been appealing to is basically male 15-35. Had they been appealing to a more diverse crowd, I doubt the strip club would've been a high priority for them.

 

Also, there's no foil or voice of reason or anything suggesting the things are totally wrong going on in Los Santos. I agree it's a dystopia, but one that is indulged in more than one that is feared.

 

#5 - "What about Kendl and Elizabeta"

 

Strong characters. Totally agree with you there. I just wish they were more common rather than the exception.

 

My overall point:

 

I'm not saying Rockstar intentionally decided to attack women. I do think they genuinely wanted to create satire (even if it didn't pan out very well). But they have been comfortably riding the wave of sexist video game cliches. It's sorta like what they said about Archie Bunker. He'd never burn a cross on someone's lawn, but if someone were to do that, he'd toast a couple marshmallows on it. This is where I think GTA stands in it's treatment of women.

Edited February 27, 2014 by godforgivesthelostdont

[Rainbow Party]

No offense, really, but I honestly don't care at all

GTA makes fun of anything, women don't deserve any special treatment. I don't care about how they portray women.

I mean, it's a game for dudes, the protagonists are dudes. The rest is all accessory. You say women are not portrayed as people but that's just because they aren't essencial to the story. There's no need to squeeze more character development into them. And prostitutes and strippers already get romanticized to ridiculous levels in movies and TV. At least that doesn't happen in GTA.

You seem to be very concerned about this whole women in GTA thing. No offense and I really really hate to be that guy but maybe you just don't understand GTA, or more like you are expecting something from it that the game isn't really supposed to give you.
You are right about how they don't really try to appeal to a broad market. Like I said, it's just a game for adult guys, about stealing cars. Maybe someone else plays it and likes it too but that's up to them, not R*.

If you want a similar game with a really good portrayal of women, I strongly recommend you play Saints Row 2. It has amazing female characters.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Rainbow Party

[godforgivesthelostdont]

No offense, really, but I honestly don't care at all

GTA makes fun of anything, women don't deserve any special treatment. I don't care about how they portray women.

I mean, it's a game for dudes, the protagonists are dudes. The rest is all accessory. You say women are not portrayed as people but that's just because they aren't essencial to the story. There's no need to squeeze more character development into them. And prostitutes and strippers already get romanticized to ridiculous levels in movies and TV. At least that doesn't happen in GTA.

You seem to be very concerned about this whole women in GTA thing. No offense and I really really hate to be that guy but maybe you just don't understand GTA, or more like you are expecting something from it that the game isn't really supposed to give you.

You are right about how they don't really try to appeal to a broad market. Like I said, it's just a game for adult guys, about stealing cars. Maybe someone else plays it and likes it too but that's up to them, not R*.

If you want a similar game with a really good portrayal of women, I strongly recommend you play Saints Row 2. It has amazing female characters.

 

No offense. But you miss the point.

 

Nobody has ever asked for special treatment of women in the game. Just the same kind of treatment in the game the men get. Aka a meaningful role, or at least a personality or a purpose in the game that doesn't depend on men. For example, Nervous Ron, Lester, and Lamar are all sh*tty (but charming) people. But they don't purely exist as boyfriends in the same way that women in GTA usually onyl exist as girlfriends.

 

Also, you're implying that if GTA started treating women like normal people that it would totally destroy the series, like it's a necessary part of the series rather than just something the video-game industry tolerates.

 

I don't mean to be exclusive to women either, because the game is nasty toward lots of people including blue-collar workers. Let's not forget the awkwardly placed torture scene that's just there "for teh lulz". I don't mind scorn, satire or anger in stories, but there's no coherent message to the meanness of GTA 5. It's just there to bash lots of people in place of a real message. Notice how I don't apply most of these criticisms to GTA IV because it had a coherent message.

[Rainbow Party]

Oh oops, I haven't played GTA V. I think I missed a lot haha. Sorry I've no idea, I just assume stuff about GTA V judging from what a friend told me and what I've read in reviews and stuff.

Ironically, I'm always complaining about the way TV commercials portray women, always in the kitchen or the bathroom washing stuff (why can't they put a guy there for a change? men live alone too). I also complain a lot about how the Bible and the Quran portray women because (I admit) I'm too stubborn to accept that they were written thousands of years ago. So idk why I don't think GTA should have a better portrayal of women. If it were any other game (or TV show or movie) I'd probably expect something better. But I guess GTA just has that image of game for dudes about dudes with stuff dudes like and just mindless childish humour, to me. And I don't expect it to change its image or style. The cover art looks the same in all GTAs ever since VC, so I guess they are trying to stay the same forever.
And this is random but I always thought the whole "have sex with a hooker and then kill her to get your money back" is an interesting idea, as opposed to the retarded way many TV shows and movies portray hookers as glamorous heroines.

Oh and when I said "women don't deserve special treatment" I just meant that from the idea that GTA is indeed a guy's game. Like so many action movies are typical guy flicks and so many romantic movies are chick flicks.
Oh and I didn't mention this before but I think it's awesome that you expect A LOT from the game! Most people are just accepting about any movie or tv show or game the way they are and that's the reason it all becomes mediocre these days. But when it comes to GTA I personally just expect more from it in terms of gameplay originality. I don't care about their story or their secondary characters because so far I haven't seen any particularly good story in any GTA and I assume that's not precisely their goal and it's not something that they really want to improve.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Rainbow Party

[Omnia sunt Communia]

I agree with you godforgivesthelostdont, Rockstar seem to have a bone to pick when it comes to female characters. Especially in GTA V. Franklin's aunt and the whole dig at feminism? Come on Rockstar, you're more intelligent than that.

 

I'm struggling to think of a female character in GTA V who was important to the story who wasn't a girlfriend or family member of one of the main characters. Can anybody help me out, because I'm seriously stumped?

 

A good way to tell if a story is sexist or not is to use the Bechdel Test. A story is considered not to be sexist if:

1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it

2. Who talk to each other

3. About something besides a man

[Rainbow Party]

Saints Row 2 passes your test just fine ;D

EDIT: That awkward moment when I realize the protagonist doesn't have a name in the game. Well at least everyone calls you "boss" or some other nickname so that must count as name.

Btw I disagree with the test.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Rainbow Party

[BLOOD]

Saints Row 2 passes your test just fine ;D

EDIT: That awkward moment when I realize the protagonist doesn't have a name in the game. Well at least everyone calls you "boss" or some other nickname so that must count as name.

Btw I disagree with the test.

Lol the Protag doesnt have a name or a backstory since the start of the Franchise in 2006 unlike GTA or every other Games in History. Edited February 27, 2014 by Blood-Is-in-Diamond

[Cebra]

 

Saints Row 2 passes your test just fine ;D

EDIT: That awkward moment when I realize the protagonist doesn't have a name in the game. Well at least everyone calls you "boss" or some other nickname so that must count as name.

Btw I disagree with the test.

Lol the Protag doesnt have a name or a backstory since the start of the Franchise in 2006 unlike GTA or every other Games in History.

 

In SR1, the protagonist was named Mikey by the developers, than in SRIV he is called Nolan in-game.

[BLOOD]

 

 

 

Saints Row 2 passes your test just fine ;D

EDIT: That awkward moment when I realize the protagonist doesn't have a name in the game. Well at least everyone calls you "boss" or some other nickname so that must count as name.

Btw I disagree with the test.

Lol the Protag doesnt have a name or a backstory since the start of the Franchise in 2006 unlike GTA or every other Games in History.

 

In SR1, the protagonist was named Mikey by the developers, than in SRIV he is called Nolan in-game.But he/she is still called Boss like in SR2 and 3 yeah?

 

Edit:even though in SR4 they now have a name unlike before,i have seen SR4 videos and he/she is still called "Boss".

Edited February 27, 2014 by Blood-Is-in-Diamond

[BLOOD]

OP Saint Row is a wort example for this,cus no matter if it a male or female Protag they are nameless and all called "BOSS" with no unique background etc.The best for this is Mass Effect or Fable3.

 

Edit:Lol even GTAO has a unique first cutscene for a Female Customised Character with Lamar give her flower,plus during a weazel news the Online character name is said unlike Saint Row.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Blood-Is-in-Diamond

[Rainbow Party]

It's called "boss" as a nickname by their friends but even if you don't consider the protagonist (idk what's the problem with it not having a name anyway), the rest of the female characters in Saints Row are way more developped than those in GTA.

Not having a "background" gives your character some mystery and also makes it more relatable to. All the background you need is the beginning of Saints Row 1: the city is crime-ridden, when a gangster is about to kill you you get saved by the leader of the Saints, a vigilante group that wants to clean up the city from crime. You decide to join their cause.

Sorry for talking so much about Saints Row in the GTA forums, it's just that Saints Row 2 made a huge impression on me, it really blew my mind way beyond what I expected from a GTA clone or GTA itself.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Rainbow Party

[BLOOD]

It's called "boss" as a nickname by their friends but even if you don't consider the protagonist (idk what's the problem with it not having a name anyway), the rest of the female characters in Saints Row are way more developped than those in GTA.

Not just name,No backstory or Family etc,even Niko which is badder than bad has a mom.Lol the Strippers in Honkers(IV) and Vanilla Unicorn (V) is 100x better than ever SR ladies.

 

Edit:True Saints Row 2 was great and the only true "GTA Clone" in that franchise.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Blood-Is-in-Diamond

[Rainbow Party]

I have to disagree there. In Saints Row 2 at least (I haven't played the rest), half of your enemies are male and half are female. All the gangs are 50/50 male/female. It also had female cops before GTA decided to put them in GTA V (GTA V has girl cops right?). I don't get what you mean with the strippers being better in GTA than in Saints Row. The only difference I see is that you can interact with them in a graphic way in GTA.

And the female characters involved in the story are actually interesting and have more to them than just being "chicks" in Saints Row.

Sorry GTA, that's the way it is :3

 

Edit: Oh and Claude doesn't have a name in GTA 3 either. I guess names aren't all that important after all...

Edited February 27, 2014 by Rainbow Party

[godforgivesthelostdont]

Oh oops, I haven't played GTA V. I think I missed a lot haha. Sorry I've no idea, I just assume stuff about GTA V judging from what a friend told me and what I've read in reviews and stuff.

Ironically, I'm always complaining about the way TV commercials portray women, always in the kitchen or the bathroom washing stuff (why can't they put a guy there for a change? men live alone too). I also complain a lot about how the Bible and the Quran portray women because (I admit) I'm too stubborn to accept that they were written thousands of years ago. So idk why I don't think GTA should have a better portrayal of women. If it were any other game (or TV show or movie) I'd probably expect something better. But I guess GTA just has that image of game for dudes about dudes with stuff dudes like and just mindless childish humour, to me. And I don't expect it to change its image or style. The cover art looks the same in all GTAs ever since VC, so I guess they are trying to stay the same forever.

And this is random but I always thought the whole "have sex with a hooker and then kill her to get your money back" is an interesting idea, as opposed to the retarded way many TV shows and movies portray hookers as glamorous heroines.

Oh and when I said "women don't deserve special treatment" I just meant that from the idea that GTA is indeed a guy's game. Like so many action movies are typical guy flicks and so many romantic movies are chick flicks.

Oh and I didn't mention this before but I think it's awesome that you expect A LOT from the game! Most people are just accepting about any movie or tv show or game the way they are and that's the reason it all becomes mediocre these days. But when it comes to GTA I personally just expect more from it in terms of gameplay originality. I don't care about their story or their secondary characters because so far I haven't seen any particularly good story in any GTA and I assume that's not precisely their goal and it's not something that they really want to improve.

Yeah, as someone who is both a gamer and a feminist, I just want people to know that I love GTA and I think the series has merit. I just want the company to address the flaws or at least join in the conversation.

 

One thing you said that stood out is "guy flicks and chick flicks". I do definitely think some narratives are better off single-gender like William Golding's Lord of the Flies. But overall, I hope the gaming industry can cross gender lines. Where women play male narratives and men play female narratives. I played Last of Us: Left Behind, and even though I wasn't a teenage girl, I still appreciate it. So, yeah, it's perfectly fine to have a masculine narrative. But it's moreso the treatment of women within the masculine narrative that bothered me.

 

Look at the movie Heat (1995) for example. GTA5 was based on it. That's where the scene of the tow truck smacking the armored car on it's side and detonating it's doors with explosives came from. In Heat, women didn't have a direct role in the heists, but the female characters were given personalities and had at least some impact, even if it was only serving as a foil to the male characters. Basically, the men were savages. And the women were excluded from the action, but were also grounded and levelheaded.

 

 

I agree with you godforgivesthelostdont, Rockstar seem to have a bone to pick when it comes to female characters. Especially in GTA V. Franklin's aunt and the whole dig at feminism? Come on Rockstar, you're more intelligent than that.

 

I'm struggling to think of a female character in GTA V who was important to the story who wasn't a girlfriend or family member of one of the main characters. Can anybody help me out, because I'm seriously stumped?

 

A good way to tell if a story is sexist or not is to use the Bechdel Test. A story is considered not to be sexist if:

1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it

2. Who talk to each other

3. About something besides a man

 

 

Keep in mind that the Bechdel Test is used to judge industries as a whole rather than to assess a particular game. Some works that pass the bechdel test are still sexist and some that fail it might still have a good message behind it. But if the majority of games fail the bechdel test, that does make a strong statement on the industry.

Still, I think you have the overall mentality right.

[Blennerville]

its kinda what they are going for, its the same as with films like Scarface and Bond etc... Its a mans world.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Blennerville

[godforgivesthelostdont]

Blennerville.

I already addressed this. Read above on my comment about the movie Heat (the crime movie that GTA5 was derived from).

[Pooyan Cyrus]

Best place that women have in GTA franchise, is the "6" in 69!

But there are some good women in gta universe, too. For example: CJ's mom, whom we have a positive general idea about.

Otherwise they're f*ckers, as we've seen through these 16 years.

[Rainbow Party]

↑ lmao that reminded me of some article about racism in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. It said that the only reason for the women characters in the movies (Anakin's mother and Padme) was to have kids and die. Yeah the article was aware that it talked about women as if they were a "race" but you get the point.

And the only good female character I can think of in GTA ever was Asuka from GTA III. She was a leader of the Yakuza which is very unusual for a woman, from what I know, and she was strong and violent but also cared about you, since you had both a common enemy in Salvatore.

But that's pretty much it.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Rainbow Party

[Blennerville]

Blennerville.

I already addressed this. Read above on my comment about the movie Heat (the crime movie that GTA5 was derived from).

 

my comments stand.

[godforgivesthelostdont]

 

Blennerville.

I already addressed this. Read above on my comment about the movie Heat (the crime movie that GTA5 was derived from).

 

my comments stand.

 

 

barely.

Edited February 27, 2014 by godforgivesthelostdont

[sykes-daughter]

 

 

#2 - "I know girls who play GTA and they're fine with it."

 

The problem with this is that it's basically saying what is sexist and not sexist is purely based on whether who is saying it is a man or woman. So, if a woman says GTA isn't sexist, it can't be sexist. Not all women have the same opinion on everything. Some women will find it sexist. Some women won't. I can respect a difference of a opinion. I don't respect the idea that it automatically shuts down the disucssion.

 

#3 - "GTA portrays men like total sh*t too (they're robbers, killers, psycho's etc.)"

 

This is perhaps the one I have the most problems with because it's really reductionist. Being portrayed decently is totally different from being portrayed well. I would say Princess Peach and Princess Zelda are decent people, but I wouldn't call them good portrayal of women anymore than Tanisha or Ashley.

 

I think total assholes can be great characters. Look at Trevor, for example. The problem is not that women are portrayed as bad people (men are too). It's that they're NOT portrayed as people. Basically, men are assholes with deep personalities that have their own ambitions and story arcs. Women are assholes with paper-thin personalities and really exist only in relation to the male characters.

 

Basically, female characters don't have to be angelic. They just need to have deep personalities, their own life ambitions, not be idealized, not be overly sexualized and basically follow the same rules as male characters.

 

 

#2 so first, im a woman/girl whatever. But i can't agree with you. I mean sure it's sexist but thats just part of that game. The game is about robbers Psychose and bitches. If u buy GTA, u know what u get. And thats not a game for 10 years old kids, no, its about killing and not be killed. Los Santos is a f*cked up city, sure it haves beautiful and relaxed parts, but the point is, GTA is a game with violence. Of course the mens are assholes and the womens are whores in this game.

 

#3

It's that they're NOT portrayed as people. Basically, men are assholes with deep personalities that have their own ambitions and story arcs. Women are assholes with paper-thin personalities and really exist only in relation to the male characters. totally agree. that's the only point that annoys me.

 

btw sry for wrong grammar but i wrote this text in - like- 10 sec.

Edited February 28, 2014 by sykes-daughter

[na89340qv0n34b09q340]

I haven't payed much attention. Would you say that the portrayal of women was especially worse than usual in GTA V? And how do you feel about Kendl Johnson?

 

The three female characters I remember anything about from GTA V are Tonya, Molly Shultz, and Frunklin's mom. We didn't really get to learn too much about Tonya, except that she's JB's crack-addicted girlfriend, and that she spends all her time in the game trying to keep things good with JB's boss for some reason. Molly was especially bad. She's an almost completely silent secretary for a rich white man, and she dies transporting a film for Weston, and that's exactly everything she does ever. I don't know how to feel about Frunklin's mom.

 

Kendl's the only strong female character that comes to mind. A lot of her actions involved her romantic relationship with Cesar (who admittedly becomes a lot more important than Kendl as the game goes on), but she also seems to want to make her own life better when she convinces everyone else to keep the San Fierro garage going. She was subordinate to Carl, Sweet, and Cesar through a lot of the game, but not especially weaker than any of them, it felt like.

[BLOOD]

@Joe Chip

"Frunklin's Mum" Lol wtf? Franklin's mum(mom) died before the events of V,that woman is his aunty...Denise.

[na89340qv0n34b09q340]

@Joe Chip

"Frunklin's Mum" Lol wtf? Franklin's mum(mom) died before the events of V,that woman is his aunty...Denise.

Right, that's who I meant to say. My bad.

[BLOOD]

 

 

@Joe Chip

"Frunklin's Mum" Lol wtf? Franklin's mum(mom) died before the events of V,that woman is his aunty...Denise.

Right, that's who I meant to say. My bad.

No Problem bro

[hornedturtle]

considering all the men are criminals or junkies, id say there treated equally bad

[HaythamKenway]

I'd welcome more well developed female characters in the series. And no, it's not about some "SOCIAL JUSTICE !!1!!", just the fact that there isn't really a reason to reduce them to stupid caricatures. Even in crime movies that R* hold dear so much, like The Godfather, women get a lot of spotlight.

 

I think some of V's women could be fleshed out rather easily. Amanda or Tracey immediately came to my mind. For example, Amanda's problems with Michael stem from his neglection of the family and his general hostility towards everyone. I also think Amanda has the same problems in life as him. She's left pretty much alone in this big house, but she probably wants to do something fullfilling and give her life a meaning too. That's why she turned to things like yoga and sleeps around with other men. She just wants to do something, instead of sitting around. But we pretty much don't see that in the story. Even fu*king Jimmy, a complete joke character, had more spotlight than Amanda. 99 % of players just saw Amanda as this bit*hy wife who spends Michael's money, cheats behind his back and then runs away and spends most of the story with yoga coach.

 

I think the problem is that R* just decided to go "Fu*k it, people like the satire in our games, so let's make everything a joke", so we ended up with a game, where pretty much no-one, with an exception of the main trio, can be taken seriously. And that's bad. Satire in previous GTAs was funny, because it meshed beautifully with this rather serious story and characters. IV and TLaD and, in the story, dealt with issues seriously (pursuit of revenge, psychological trauma war can create, greed, loyalty) and satire rarely showed up in it, but it was still there, on the radio, TV, internet. It's not like that in V and rampant sexism is the consequence of it. It feels like R* didn't even try to flesh out anyone but the trio. Everybody else is a joke character. Jimmy? Joke. Lamar? Joke. Ron? Joke. And I can go on and on and on.

 

Of course, women never got proper room in previous games either. But sometimes, R* at least tried and there definitely was a potential. Kate was a good character, but they sidelined her into optional, boring activities. Elizabeta was great too. Even Karen, who turned out to be a "wh*re for the government", as Niko put it, had a lot of potential, with her implied problematic past and motivations. And I'd definitely like to know more about Mrs. Pegorino, who showed up in, like, three missions. What made her the way she is? Why did her son kill himself?

 

So yeah, I think women should definitely play a bigger role in future GTAs. There really isn't a single reason for them not to. And I think it's bulls*it that GTA is just a one-trick pony that can only be offensive towards everyone. IV proved the opposite. And women, of course, shouldn't be white knights in the dark world of GTA either. Was Roman a good person without a single flaw either? Of course not. But he was portrayed as a real human being instead of a cardboard cutout. And that's what I want from R* for every major character in their stories.

[Rainbow Party]

I don't get what's so strong about Kendl from GTA San Andreas. All she does is f*ck Cesar and walk around jiggling her boobs. She doesn't do anything meaningful... unless I somehow missed some mission or something. If it were the 2000s she'd probably be shaking her booty on a 50 cent video.

Or do you guys mean a different Kendl? Or does she appear in V maybe? I'm lost here

Edited February 28, 2014 by Rainbow Party

[na89340qv0n34b09q340]

I don't get what's so strong about Kendl from GTA San Andreas. All she does is f*ck Cesar and walk around jiggling her boobs. She doesn't do anything meaningful... unless I somehow missed some mission or something. If it were the 2000s she'd probably be shaking her booty on a 50 cent video.

Or do you guys mean a different Kendl? Or does she appear in V maybe? I'm lost here

I dunno. She just seems headstrong, and willing to do everything she can to get what she wants. It's not that she did do anything meaningful, it's that I believe she could and would if it came down to her having to choose. And it's probably not worth arguing about, but she definitely wouldn't be shaking her ass in rap videos. They had stuff like that in the early nineties, and there was no shaking-of-the-booty done by Kendl. I think if she was born into different circumstances she would've made something of herself; became a lawyer, or a doctor, or something like that. I think Grove Street life kept her down, and lack of funds kept her in the hood.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Joe Chip

[godforgivesthelostdont]

considering all the men are criminals or junkies, id say there treated equally bad

 

We've been over this. The problem isn't women being portrayed negatively. The problem is their lack of portrayal and the little portrayal that does exist usually paints them as purely love interests.

 

As for Kendl, she's a good character for GTA standards - not an exceptional character by universal standards.