DM spawns

[LuapYllier]

How do you guys feel about the spawning methods of deathmatches? I have seen a lot of scenarios for clever matches like one group assaulting a building that the other team occupies but they get sort of ruined by the switchup effect of the spawns. You do well and assault the building and suddenly the occupants are spawning outside behond you.

 

Does this bug anyone else?

 

What about maybe an optional setting for a DM type, call it "Domination" that allows each team to only spawn on thier designated sides. Instead of a kill count you would have a timer only. So if one team pushes into the opposing area to the point where currently it would spawn the losers on the other side then it would just not allow spawns. If the remaining players cant clear out the agressors so thier team can spawn then the aggressors effectively dominate and win the game.

[dedeto]

I think it's more suitable for a Mission.If they release a Mission Creator,it will occur.Sometimes I think about it too,this option would be good.But making missions including fixed spawn points would be better,like "Grab the Observatory" , "Steal the Cargobob" ...

Edited February 26, 2014 by dedeto

[Pixel S]

Yeah esp for TDM games.

You should be able to set team spawn points and only team spawn points.

So have a minimum of 2 team spawn points to prevent a camp out but these all over spawns in Team modes ruin the experience.

Some people probably come up with amazing maps with perfect weapon balance but they get ruined the moment someone dies as they can spawn anywhere.

Edited February 26, 2014 by GTARACER93

[handcuff_charlie]

From what I have observed, the computer respawns players to the spawn point furthest from the majority of the other players. Now exactly when it makes it's determination, at the moment of death, when the respawn timer starts, when it finishes, is anybody's guess and it certainly matters since a lot of running around can take place between the moment of death and the end of the respawn timer....but I believe I have tested it amply to make this deduction.

 

I have two DM's which demonstrated it very clearly.

 

In this first TDM the spawns are all divided between two buildings, with 3 in the center. Because the action is focused on the center towards the other building and draws the players towards the side of the garages facing the other team, the furthest respawn point from the majority of opponents is almost never in the opposite garage, unless there are very few people in the room and/or they are extremely bunched up on on side/corner of their garage. I have only seen two respawns occur in the center respawn points and only ONE respawn occur in the opposite building. This is because the majority of the opposing players are too close to those spawns and the respawns in your native garage are all further away. There was no respawn side switch when the room was nearly full (over 12 players).

 

But the second TDM is a different story....

 

What happens here is because the eastern island is much wider than the western island, the players on the eastern island can easily get bunched up on the southern end of the island (mainly because it offers more natural cover) this allows for the possibility that at some point one of the respawn points on the northern end of the island becomes the furthest away from opponents for a western island player. This is ALWAYS how the "respawn shift" happens in this map. players from the western island begin respawning on the northern respawn points on the eastern island, vacating the western island and now creating enough of a presence on the eastern island that when they kill eastern island native players those players are prone to respawn on the opposite (western) island once there are few enough native western island players. BUT...if the room is full enough (12 to 16 players) this shift does not happen. It could happen but due to the spread of pick-ups and cover, a group of 6 to 8 eastern island players never get bunched up enough on the southern side of their island. Even if they did, one or two respawns of opponents on their island will certainly draw enough of them back in that direction that following opponent respawns will resume on their native island

 

I personally enjoy playing this island-based TDM with less total players as much as I do with a full room because of the shift. Each island has different advantages and it allows/forces each side to employ tactics appropriate for each island during the same game. The smaller, peakier island has far better terrain masking and the pick-ups are closer together, therefore easier to get to for replenishing your supplies. The larger island offers cover in a different way, despite being much flatter, the other team must scan much more area in order to find targets, plus it grants wider angles in its lines of sight to the smaller island. It also offers more water's edge positions that are less exposed than the few found on the smaller island. So in the end it really is all about laying out the creation objects in a way to promote balance according to the natural environment.

 

 

I have observed this over a few dozen deathmatches in these two maps. This trend of the "furthest away from the majority of opponents" is very apparent. I think it works fine, I mean as a designer we are tempted to think it would be preferable to be able to designate ALL respawn points as team-specific, but that would almost certainly lead to spawn camping. The current system's "flaw" is much more preferable than spawn camping.

Edited February 28, 2014 by handcuff_charlie

[handcuff_charlie]

.......these all over spawns in Team modes ruin the experience.

Some people probably come up with amazing maps with perfect weapon balance but they get ruined the moment someone dies as they can spawn anywhere.

 

Not necessarily.

 

I would say that if the respawning "ruins" the weapon balance, then there wasn't much weapon balance to begin with.

 

The key to balance is as much symmetry as possible when laying down objects (spawns, pick-ups, and props to an extent). In cases where symmetry isn't possible due to unsymmetrical terrain or natural environment, you can sometimes distort the layout in a way that counters the distortion in natural environment, but not always....if that makes any sense.

Edited February 28, 2014 by handcuff_charlie

[Pixel S]

 

.......these all over spawns in Team modes ruin the experience.

Some people probably come up with amazing maps with perfect weapon balance but they get ruined the moment someone dies as they can spawn anywhere.

 

Not necessarily.

 

I would say that if the respawning "ruins" the weapon balance, then there wasn't much weapon balance to begin with.

 

The key to balance is as much symmetry as possible when laying down objects (spawns, pick-ups, and props to an extent). In cases where symmetry isn't possible due to unsymmetrical terrain or natural environment, you can sometimes distort the layout in a way that counters the distortion in natural environment, but not always....if that makes any sense.

 

Not for team games no.. Sorry Team games should not have random spawns all over It's impossible to balance weapons when it's like that.

Most D/MS suck for TDM's because of it

The only things that should have random spawns are Normal D/M's and objective game types with a moving objective.

Everything else should be set

Edited February 28, 2014 by GTARACER93

[handcuff_charlie]

 

 

.......these all over spawns in Team modes ruin the experience.

Some people probably come up with amazing maps with perfect weapon balance but they get ruined the moment someone dies as they can spawn anywhere.

 

Not necessarily.

 

I would say that if the respawning "ruins" the weapon balance, then there wasn't much weapon balance to begin with.

 

The key to balance is as much symmetry as possible when laying down objects (spawns, pick-ups, and props to an extent). In cases where symmetry isn't possible due to unsymmetrical terrain or natural environment, you can sometimes distort the layout in a way that counters the distortion in natural environment, but not always....if that makes any sense.

 

Not for team games no.. Sorry Team games should not have random spawns all over It's impossible to balance weapons when it's like that.

Most D/MS suck for TDM's because of it

The only things that should have random spawns are Normal D/M's and objective game types with a moving objective.

Everything else should be set

 

 

If you read what I wrote, that is exactly what I said. Symmetry is necessary for balance.

 

I personally dont differentiate between TDM and DM,

If a TDM is properly balanced, then it should be balanced as a normal DM

 

The problem is when people try to design assymmetrical TDM's....for example, one team defends a unique position from the other team. This simply will not work in the current creator version because we have no control over team respawns. The computer simply respawns players at the respawn point furthest away from the majority of the opposing players, making a "defend the castle" scenario impossible to design properly.

[KimberJane]

I created a deathmatch last night. I won't name is as I'm not here to advertise it. When I had finally completed all the placements etc I was really pleased with what I had spent over an hour creating.

I set team one starting position above ground and team two starting position below ground. I then added the needed number of spawning spots, half above ground and half below ground thinking that the above and below spawning spots would belong to the resprective team, but no it's all random so that aspect spoils what could be a very enjoyable TDM.

But saying that it did get a fair few likes and was almost majority to replay in the vote screen.