A frank opinion of the game industry

[AgentExeider]

There was a thread that was locked before I could get this replay into it, but I feel that this post is so important to say, I decided to create a topic just for it.

 

Because this is what I feel is happening to our beloved game industry, and I feel that I must say something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know what's worse, the fact that by any standard or measure from a reasonably competent gaming company would judge a five month content drought as being an indicator of problems, or that your trying to justify it.

 

Also, I really wish the word 'entitlement' as a derogatory term be retired because if you read what the definition of entitlement means, you sound like a moron using that way. Colin Moriarty is a moron for coining it, and other people are morons for perpetuating it's use in that manner.

 

Yes, he is entitled, why because he paid for a working functioning piece of software. Not software that would be functional 5+ months down the road. R* did market the game as having heists, online content creators, and everything he listed. They phrased their marketing that it would be there either at launch or soon after. R* themselves even said that heists were to be in the game BEFORE the end of 2013.

 

Look I understand there is a marked difference between people whining because they can't keep their glitched, hacked money/vehicles, and making a legitimate complaint with the way this project is being managed.

 

And to try and diffuse this person by using the tired and moronic term of "entitlement" as a derogatory comment only proves how moronic you are for using it, and your sheer ignorance of how gaming companies, nay the gaming industry is operating, and the backwards sliding trend of quality into the oblivion of mediocrity.

 

and when those who see what's going on and trying to voice their concerns over what they see coming over the horizon, people like you try to shut them up and discredit them by using terms like that instead of engaging their points head on.

 

the truth is you can't, because they DO have a valid point, and all you can do instead of stringing together a cogent point, you mutter incomprehensible phrases and buzz words.

 

Do us all a favor and study how the game industry worked only 15 years ago, and compare it to today, I think you will be shocked by how good it USED to be, and how BAD it is now, with what crap is being peddled for product today.

 

Good Day, sir

-Æ

 

 

You have a lot of points in this post, of which I can either agree with out right or at least understand where you are coming from, but this bolded section? Oh boy, this is a bit of a doozy. I often times see the statement wheeled out, but never ultimately justified. That's not to say that it they don't try to justify it, but rarely do they consider all the facets that should be considered, and often times do so squarely in Nostalgia-ville. People have built up this imagined view of how good things were back then.

 

I've been gaming more than long enough to remember, clearly, the days where post-game support was minimal-to-non-existent. Encounter a glitch or bug during gameplay? If you were lucky enough to have internet 'way back when', you could see if anyone else was having your problem and if they had a way to avoid. An era where "blow your cartridge to clear dust" was an often cited support solution, even up until the twilight of the N64's life cycle. And if you were lucky enough that the developer managed to patch your game.. you could try sending your copy in and getting a new one. Some honoured that, not all did, in those cases where they didn't you had to buy a new game or put up with it.

 

Lack of accessibility, sequels or other content, for games that you enjoyed. Unless it did really well, you were SOL. Wasteland is, for many older gamers, a cherished cRPG and whilst hard to believe for some I guess, there are those that (may or may not enjoy) Fallout that do not consider it to be the equal of or a sequel to Wasteland. Wasteland 2 was nothing short of a pipe dream for at least 15 years.

 

Things inside the industry weren't so great either. Atari and Sega, both juggernauts of their time (and not necessarily bad companies either), experienced company crushing bouts of schizophrenia (this'll be lost on most I imagine) with Atari gone and Sega treading water to this day. Job security a premium, few people had it.

 

tl/dr point: Somethings were done better then, somethings are done better now. Neither period is really better than the other.

 

 

I have to disagree, the Sega Era would be 25 years ago in this context but even so, There was at least major strides to not have the issues that plague the industry today, and yes while the industry did have issues, I'm not saying it was perfect, it was a hell of alot better then, and I will name the major reason why, The game studios were not beholden to the publishers, infact the relationship was a complete 180, Publishers were beholden to the Game Makers, publishers were responsible for the marketing and the physical production of the game, they did not interfere with budgets and schedules of game studios. As a result, Game Studios took the time they needed to create and polish games.

 

And that is the issue, games today have no polish, alot of the bugs that exist, exist in higher amounts then they EVER did back in the day, yes, those games too had bugs, but not in the proportion that they do today. And I partly blame having access to the internet for it. Game makers back in the day had to make damn sure showstopper bugs were long dead before the game came out, but today, game studios take the "we can just patch it later" attitude. In a related note, QA times and budgets are slashed, in fact when the budget in general is slashed, QA is one of the first things to go. Also to be a QA tester today, the only qualifications seems to be to have a heart beat, and absolutely no knowledge of QA testing or procedures, or even a rudimentary knowledge of coding. Back then QA Testers had to have an educational background to qualify them for the positions. SO as a result, most games are not QA properly or long enough.

 

Today, Publishers are god, they set the times, the budgets, everything, they have total control, and they have taken on the attitude of Quantity over Quality, Crank them out as fast as you can, doesn't matter if some are misses so long as the flow keeps going. As a result, Standards are sliding, Quality is out the window, and what should be convenience becomes an excuse at mediocrity.

 

And moreover, the customers had more control in terms of attitude, Publishers have done one thing right, they bought all the gaming mags and media, which effectively prevents the consumer from voicing their opinions in any meaningful way, which means the sound of the propaganda machine is louder then the man on the street.

 

and while every gaming company today is pretty much guilty of this on one level or another, there is one company I blame for starting this particular snowball rolling by INVENTING this environment and getting everybody to think it's the way to go. and that company is...yes your guessed it, EA. They have single highhandedly shown that this strategy seems to work, and they have done at least up until in recent years, a effective job of hiding all the behind the scenes underhanded bull sh!t they have had to do to get it to work. And have made it seem that not only it works but works well and swelled their behemoth size.

 

And of course what do you do when you see your neighbor doing something that seems to be working well, yup, you start to do it to. But when you fail and falter, wondering what your doing wrong, this allows your neighbor EA to come by and purchase you up for a fraction of your original worth and thus increase it's size.

 

Maybe that was the plan all along, maybe it was just a happenstance, I don't know.

 

But in the end, as company after company adopts this strategy, and even simply just being lazy, WE the consumer suffer. We now live in a gaming industry that ships broken games, DRMs them to your accounts, preventing resale or borrowing to your friends. Games who's 'Entitlements' expire, Oh yes folks if you read Origins TOS, they stipulate that your purchases can expire, which means purchasing the game all over again. This has always been the fear of this move towards Digital Downloads and away from physical copies, because it means that the company can control your ability to have your games, and if they want to just take them away. We live in an industry that sees games as mass produced products and not carefully constructed products, Who purchase media outlets to produce positive propaganda, and to stifle real commentary, opinion and truth like some Orwellian nightmare. and now with the next gen consoles, backwards compatibility has been removed and made a thing of the past, so no playing your old games, and the fact that your previous digital purchases on XBA don't carry over to your next gen console, meaning your have to purchase it again. Sony's continuance of using HDCP.

 

And DLC, oh my god DLC, disc locked DLC, so not only are your games broken, but now they are incomplete, content that came on the disc and locked away unless you pay an additional fee, just to unlock content that is already on your disc. DLC was meant to make improvements to games by suggesting that more content could be added. But the industry of course has gone the other way, instead of giving you complete robust games, they give you thin gangly shells of games as they slice off content to become future DLC, even going so far as having day one DLC, so game companies are charging you FULL price, for a game that is broken and has had it's content sliced. Prices I might add have gone up about $10 with each generation.

 

SO your paying MORE money, for less game period.

 

And that brings me to Micro-transactions, and while this is more for the MMO genre, I don't know if you have taken a look, but there are games that are straining the definition of MICRO, in micro-transactions, where content is costing $20, $30, 50, $100 for content. (Recently, Star Trek Online posted a ship pack costing over $100), and more and more sections of games being locked behind pay walls, and overall costs to the player, more then double, or triple, even going as high as 5 times the cost, all while claiming Free to Play as a selling point.

 

This is the Game Industry that we live in, a sad sad place where the concepts of quality, and making a good product have no meaning. Where making a cheap dollar is more important then making a good game, and yes I know it's a business, but there is such a thing as good business through good quality products. We live in an industry that is run by pimps and prostitutes, where the medias are owned and operated by the gaming publishers that bought them, who's only real purpose is to be a mouth piece, while the deluge of broken, stripped down content continues to rain down on the masses, where the only thing in the next version of a game is a different color case and higher number on the front. Where the technology meant to improve the state of the art is used to control it in very disturbing, almost tyrannical ways, where the consumer is seen as nothing more then a milk cow from which money is extracted in greater and greater quantities for an ever continually dwindling amount of content.

 

This is the industry we live in.

 

The Nintendo/Sega Generation for all it's problems never was anything like this. And I would take the old cartridge blowing days over this crap any day of the week, and I think many would agree with me. Let me put it this way, you say:

 

People have built up this imagined view of how good things were back then.

That's because they were, they remember the fun, they remember how good it was and remember it fondly. And more over, what they DON'T remember all the bullcrap that they have to deal with today when it comes to their games.

 

Peace and Love

-Æ

[AbortSanity]

I am sure you make some very valid points, I will get around to reading this when I have a spare few hours =]

[Ezza.]

[Nipper]

Now that I think about it.

 

The younger I was, the less I knew, the happier I was.

 

This is probably true for most, and also reaches far beyond our gaming side.

 

Maybe this is why people always say about the good old days, everyones parents have told them stories about the good old days.

 

Maybe today, will be one of our future "good old days"?

Edited February 26, 2014 by Nipper

[marco-polo]

I am sure you make some very valid points, I will get around to reading this when I have a spare few hours =]

 

Lol'd

[Jolly Swagman]

It was probably locked because it is irrelevant and boring. Much like this thread here.

[pnut87]

Previous thread was locked, so you decide to do it again? I suppose I should be used that logic on these forums by now...

[AgentExeider]

Previous thread was locked, so you decide to do it again? I suppose I should be used that logic on these forums by now...

the previous thread was locked because it degenerated, moreover it was focusing solely on GTAOs shortcomings, This thread is looking at the game industry in general.

 

It was probably locked because it is irrelevant and boring. Much like this thread here.

 

The irony of your statement is not lost on me, but I ask you read the post, because if anything I'm only trying to point out something that would make things better for everyone, including you.

Edited February 26, 2014 by AgentExeider

[marco-polo]

Interesting read.

[Coin]

AE,

 

Though I realise that your intent is to generate discussion, rather than a pointed response at myself, it would perhaps have been more appropriate to PM me this response. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up getting locked also, given the OT nature of the subject, and there are somethings I am unwilling or (potentially) unable to touch upon in your post for a couple reasons [publicly].

 

I can provide you with some short and sweet responses in this thread, though.

 

Regards.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Insert-Coin-To-Continue

[Nipper]

This thread just got weird.

 

It's like the cold war all over again.

[pnut87]

 

Previous thread was locked, so you decide to do it again? I suppose I should be used that logic on these forums by now...

the previous thread was locked because it degenerated, moreover it was focusing solely on GTAOs shortcomings, This thread is looking at the game industry in general.

 

Most if not all threads here tend to degenerate quickly. Before you ask, yes, I did read through it. Frankly, this topic doesn't really fit here if it's supposed to focus on the gaming industry in general. Simply mentioning GTA as is doesn't justify the argument to not lock it.

[marco-polo]

and there are somethings I am unwilling or (potentially) unable to touch upon in your post for a couple reasons [publicly].

 

[AgentExeider]

AE,

 

Though I realise that your intent is to generate discussion, rather than a pointed response at myself, it would perhaps have been more appropriate to PM me this response. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up getting locked also, given the OT nature of the subject, and there are somethings I am unwilling or (potentially) unable to touch upon in your post for a couple reasons [publicly].

 

I can provide you with some short and sweet responses in this thread, though.

 

Regards.

I would be happy to continue this in PM as well, but I woudln't consider it OT, because the reason GTAO is suffering the way it has is BECAUSE of the same larger systemic issues in the industry as a whole.

 

 

 

 

 

Previous thread was locked, so you decide to do it again? I suppose I should be used that logic on these forums by now...

the previous thread was locked because it degenerated, moreover it was focusing solely on GTAOs shortcomings, This thread is looking at the game industry in general.

 

Most if not all threads here tend to degenerate quickly. Before you ask, yes, I did read through it. Frankly, this topic doesn't really fit here if it's supposed to focus on the gaming industry in general. Simply mentioning GTA as is doesn't justify the argument to not lock it.

 

 

the Microcosm of the shortcomings of GTAO is comparable to the Macrocosm of the Game Industry's shortcomings as well.

 

-Æ

Edited February 26, 2014 by AgentExeider

[Nipper]

 

and there are somethings I am unwilling or (potentially) unable to touch upon in your post for a couple reasons [publicly].

 

 

 

Game industry sleeper agents in this thread.

[AgentExeider]

Another thing and this isn't exactly giving R* a mulligan on it, but another reason for the issues it has, is because R* is inexperienced with MMOs, and developing an MMO is a completely different animal then any other kind of game type.

 

R* isn't used to working on this kind of schedule, and to be honest, maybe it's time they ask for help.

[marco-polo]

Game industry sleeper agents in this thread.

 

There's no doubt in my mind, Agent 99.

[Phyxsius-]

@OP - The only way to do things is less talk, more walk. In this case, vote with your wallet.

 

If you don`t like a game, or a dev, or a publisher, you don`t buy their games. Is that simple. That`s as far as theory goes.

 

In reality, there was a certain COD boycott that failed and there will be others. The same players that say on the forum "I will never buy GTA again, or a Take-Two game, or Rockstar" WILL buy the next 50 games. You CANNOT turn an idiot into a thinker, no matter how hard you try. Idiots outnumber thinkers by a large margin.

[Coin]

 

and there are somethings I am unwilling or (potentially) unable to touch upon in your post for a couple reasons [publicly].

 

 

 

I'm employed by one of the companies mentioned in the OP. Is it entirely unreasonable that I would not want to discuss them in particular, openly?

 

 

Game industry sleeper agents in this thread.

 

 

Straight out of Russia....

Edited February 26, 2014 by Insert-Coin-To-Continue

[AgentExeider]

@OP - The only way to do things is less talk, more walk. In this case, vote with your wallet.

 

If you don`t like a game, or a dev, or a publisher, you don`t buy their games. Is that simple. That`s as far as theory goes.

 

In reality, there was a certain COD boycott that failed and there will be others. The same players that say on the forum "I will never buy GTA again, or a Take-Two game, or Rockstar" WILL buy the next 50 games. You CANNOT turn an idiot into a thinker, no matter how hard you try. Idiots outnumber thinkers by a large margin.

true but getting the information out there helps in ways that some times we don't see.

 

One of the reasons EA for example is having trouble getting new studios, and that the attitude by the consumers has caused game studios to think twice before selling themselves to EA, plus the whistleblowers from inside help too. as a result EA is having a hard time buying new studios, so they are forced to work with what they have, but of course their business strategy is a failing one and eventually it will catch up with them.

[marco-polo]

I'm employed by one of the companies mentioned in the OP. Is it entirely unreasonable that I would not want to discuss them in particular, openly?

 

Easy tiger...

Edited February 26, 2014 by marco-polo

[pnut87]

 

 

 

 

 

Previous thread was locked, so you decide to do it again? I suppose I should be used that logic on these forums by now...

the previous thread was locked because it degenerated, moreover it was focusing solely on GTAOs shortcomings, This thread is looking at the game industry in general.

 

Most if not all threads here tend to degenerate quickly. Before you ask, yes, I did read through it. Frankly, this topic doesn't really fit here if it's supposed to focus on the gaming industry in general. Simply mentioning GTA as is doesn't justify the argument to not lock it.

 

 

the Microcosm of the shortcomings of GTAO is comparable to the Macrocosm of the Game Industry's shortcomings as well.

 

-Æ

 

 

What, disc locked content? Delays on DLC? Micro transactions? Lackluster programming? GTA5 is a nice example, but hardly the only game to feature these shortcomings, and is by no means the worst case of such. Ever heard of Advent Rising? Look that one up and tell me why a game like that can have such incredible potential only to bomb in the worst way possible. Then there's the mobile game market.

 

The topic just doesn't belong here. That's why it got locked.

[SnyderGuy]

I don't have the 10minutes to read the great wall of text.

[AgentExeider]

 

 

and there are somethings I am unwilling or (potentially) unable to touch upon in your post for a couple reasons [publicly].

 

 

 

I'm employed by one of the companies mentioned in the OP. Is it entirely unreasonable that I would not want to discuss them in particular, openly?

 

Say no more, by your paranoia, I can venture to guess which one.

 

You have my condolences by the way. I'm sorry you have to work under those conditions.

[Zwenkwiel]

you make some valid points

although I don't think R* really suffers from the relationship with it's publisher as you described

I think R* having the status it has and an IP like gta, which is basically guaranteed succes, gives them a bit more "leverage" in the dev-publisher relationship

2k seems to be more than willing to let R* do it's thing, even if that does mean pouring in some extra money and giving them more time

 

I think the rest is pretty much spot on though

it seems a lot of companies just abuse the ability to instantly spread content like patches and DLC over the interwebz to get away with delivering unfinished products at launch.

who cares if the game's not finished at launch, they have day 1 patches for all technical bugs and DLC map packs that didn't make the launch ready to go

 

and don't even get me started on "micro"transactions

how they ever managed to sneak that one trough is beyond me

people should be rioting in the streets if you ask me. XD

[AgentExeider]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Previous thread was locked, so you decide to do it again? I suppose I should be used that logic on these forums by now...

the previous thread was locked because it degenerated, moreover it was focusing solely on GTAOs shortcomings, This thread is looking at the game industry in general.

 

Most if not all threads here tend to degenerate quickly. Before you ask, yes, I did read through it. Frankly, this topic doesn't really fit here if it's supposed to focus on the gaming industry in general. Simply mentioning GTA as is doesn't justify the argument to not lock it.

 

 

the Microcosm of the shortcomings of GTAO is comparable to the Macrocosm of the Game Industry's shortcomings as well.

 

-Æ

 

 

What, disc locked content? Delays on DLC? Micro transactions? Lackluster programming? GTA5 is a nice example, but hardly the only game to feature these shortcomings, and is by no means the worst case of such. Ever heard of Advent Rising? Look that one up and tell me why a game like that can have such incredible potential only to bomb in the worst way possible. Then there's the mobile game market.

 

 

I was speaking in general terms, as these things are often major controversial things that publishers elect to do, and consumers get angry about.

 

But disc locked content is a MAJOR point, because it's already there, but you need a 50-500k file just to unlock it, and that file costs X amount of money to do so.

[Nipper]

 

I'm employed by one of the companies mentioned in the OP. Is it entirely unreasonable that I would not want to discuss them in particular, openly?

 

Easy tiger...

 

 

Probably not wise to admit to working for EA.

 

Or Sega? I only see 3 companies mentioned (Well, I cba reading it again to check, so I will correct this now, I remember 3), one which we all know is dead and buried (mostly), I don't imagine Sega have employees out the nose.

 

So it leaves EA. If you're a gamer and you work for EA?

 

Well I guess thanks for all your hard work over the years EA!

[AgentExeider]

you make some valid points

although I don't think R* really suffers from the relationship with it's publisher as you described

I think R* having the status it has and an IP like gta, which is basically guaranteed succes, gives them a bit more "leverage" in the dev-publisher relationship

2k seems to be more than willing to let R* do it's thing, even if that does mean pouring in some extra money and giving them more time

 

I think the rest is pretty much spot on though

it seems a lot of companies just abuse the ability to instantly spread content like patches and DLC over the interwebz to get away with delivering unfinished products at launch.

who cares if the game's not finished at launch, they have day 1 patches for all technical bugs and DLC map packs that didn't make the launch ready to go

 

and don't even get me started on "micro"transactions

how they ever managed to sneak that one trough is beyond me

people should be rioting in the streets if you ask me. XD

Thank You.

[GourangaMaster]

I understand it would have been frustrating typing all that out only for the thread to be locked. None the less your unheard reply to what was honestly turning into another circular thinking rant argument does not deserve an entire thread dedicated to it.

At the least it should have been in general gaming as its too broad a topic for a GTAonline specific subforum.

http://gtaforums.com/forum/36-gaming/

[Juanfartez]

@OP - The only way to do things is less talk, more walk. In this case, vote with your wallet.

 

If you don`t like a game, or a dev, or a publisher, you don`t buy their games. Is that simple. That`s as far as theory goes.

 

In reality, there was a certain COD boycott that failed and there will be others. The same players that say on the forum "I will never buy GTA again, or a Take-Two game, or Rockstar" WILL buy the next 50 games. You CANNOT turn an idiot into a thinker, no matter how hard you try. Idiots outnumber thinkers by a large margin.

What did you expect? "Welcome, sonny"? "Make yourself at home"? "Marry my daughter"? You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.