UK vs US Gangs

February 11, 2014

To the people talking about UK gangs, there's more stabbings in the UK than there are in the US, and more stabbings in the UK than there are shootings in the US. Because of this, you're more likely to survive an attack in the UK than the US, simply because the US has much easier access to firearms.

Also, if you are to be shot in the UK chances are you're getting shot in the legs, as that's a way to avoid a more serious charge.(Shotguns are also one of if not the most used firearms by British gangsters, and depending on the type of ammo you use, you are much more likely to survive that compared to the types of firearms (Assault Rifles and modern pistols) American gangsters use. The same goes for stabbings now a days, most people get stabbed in the legs as if you get arrested, it's less of a charge, but you can still hit arteries and kill the person. Then you get things like Glasgow Smiles which show that UK gangs are much more brutal than US ones.

Also, there is more violent crime in the UK than there is in the US. But you're more likely to suvive violence in the UK simply because US gangs use firearms much, much more often, and UK gangs use melee instead much, much more often. We also have free health care. And as stated previously, UK gangs tend to purposely take measures to NOT kill people, as they'd rather not get charged with murder.

A lot of gang fighting in the UK is large brawls with melee weapons , split up into two teams. One gang on one side, another on the other side, and they fight. And it's more about post codes and streets, areas, than the US.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/gang-chop-off-rivals-manhood-with-chisel-1068643

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

And in my area of Leeds, England, children as young as 8 were selling crack and heroin on the street.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/the-chapeltown-heroin-runners-aged-eight-1-2816485

Edited February 11, 2014 by TheTaterTot

February 11, 2014

To the people talking about UK gangs, there's more stabbings in the UK than there are in the US, and more stabbings in the UK than there are shootings in the US. Because of this, you're more likely to survive an attack in the UK than the US, simply because the US has much easier access to firearms.

Also, if you are to be shot in the UK chances are you're getting shot in the legs, as that's a way to avoid a more serious charge.(Shotguns are also one of if not the most used firearms by British gangsters, and depending on the type of ammo you use, you are much more likely to survive that compared to the types of firearms (Assault Rifles and modern pistols) American gangsters use. The same goes for stabbings now a days, most people get stabbed in the legs as if you get arrested, it's less of a charge, but you can still hit arteries and kill the person. Then you get things like Glasgow Smiles which show that UK gangs are much more brutal than US ones.

Also, there is more violent crime in the UK than there is in the US. But you're more likely to suvive violence in the UK simply because US gangs use firearms much, much more often, and UK gangs use melee instead much, much more often. We also have free health care. And as stated previously, UK gangs tend to purposely take measures to NOT kill people, as they'd rather not get charged with murder.

A lot of gang fighting in the UK is large brawls with melee weapons , split up into two teams. One gang on one side, another on the other side, and they fight. And it's more about post codes and streets, areas, than the US.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/gang-chop-off-rivals-manhood-with-chisel-1068643

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

And in my area of Leeds, England, children as young as 8 were selling crack and heroin on the street.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/the-chapeltown-heroin-runners-aged-eight-1-2816485

Bro people use machetes in very creative ways out here... trust me.... its not just shootings... besides if u want brutal, try oakland where corpses are dumped on the overpass and left there... kids sellin crack... kids shooting people... as yoiung as 11... its a lot worse than what the news says

February 11, 2014

To the people talking about UK gangs, there's more stabbings in the UK than there are in the US, and more stabbings in the UK than there are shootings in the US. Because of this, you're more likely to survive an attack in the UK than the US, simply because the US has much easier access to firearms.

Also, if you are to be shot in the UK chances are you're getting shot in the legs, as that's a way to avoid a more serious charge.(Shotguns are also one of if not the most used firearms by British gangsters, and depending on the type of ammo you use, you are much more likely to survive that compared to the types of firearms (Assault Rifles and modern pistols) American gangsters use. The same goes for stabbings now a days, most people get stabbed in the legs as if you get arrested, it's less of a charge, but you can still hit arteries and kill the person. Then you get things like Glasgow Smiles which show that UK gangs are much more brutal than US ones.

Also, there is more violent crime in the UK than there is in the US. But you're more likely to suvive violence in the UK simply because US gangs use firearms much, much more often, and UK gangs use melee instead much, much more often. We also have free health care. And as stated previously, UK gangs tend to purposely take measures to NOT kill people, as they'd rather not get charged with murder.

A lot of gang fighting in the UK is large brawls with melee weapons , split up into two teams. One gang on one side, another on the other side, and they fight. And it's more about post codes and streets, areas, than the US.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/gang-chop-off-rivals-manhood-with-chisel-1068643

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

And in my area of Leeds, England, children as young as 8 were selling crack and heroin on the street.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/the-chapeltown-heroin-runners-aged-eight-1-2816485

God damn will yall UK people just give it up already, do you even know how soft you sound? Out here they ain't aiming for your legs, they aiming at your HEAD buddy. They just don't give a f*ck out here, people WANT to kill & they WILL do it, jail is nothing for some people out here.

Large brawls with melee weapons? Lmfao its straight gun play out here, you say kids selling crack & heroin at age 8??? Try going Chicago & see kids at age 8 walking down the streets with AK's & Mac-11's.

February 12, 2014

To the people talking about UK gangs, there's more stabbings in the UK than there are in the US, and more stabbings in the UK than there are shootings in the US. Because of this, you're more likely to survive an attack in the UK than the US, simply because the US has much easier access to firearms.

Also, if you are to be shot in the UK chances are you're getting shot in the legs, as that's a way to avoid a more serious charge.(Shotguns are also one of if not the most used firearms by British gangsters, and depending on the type of ammo you use, you are much more likely to survive that compared to the types of firearms (Assault Rifles and modern pistols) American gangsters use. The same goes for stabbings now a days, most people get stabbed in the legs as if you get arrested, it's less of a charge, but you can still hit arteries and kill the person. Then you get things like Glasgow Smiles which show that UK gangs are much more brutal than US ones.

Also, there is more violent crime in the UK than there is in the US. But you're more likely to suvive violence in the UK simply because US gangs use firearms much, much more often, and UK gangs use melee instead much, much more often. We also have free health care. And as stated previously, UK gangs tend to purposely take measures to NOT kill people, as they'd rather not get charged with murder.

A lot of gang fighting in the UK is large brawls with melee weapons , split up into two teams. One gang on one side, another on the other side, and they fight. And it's more about post codes and streets, areas, than the US.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/gang-chop-off-rivals-manhood-with-chisel-1068643

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

And in my area of Leeds, England, children as young as 8 were selling crack and heroin on the street.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/the-chapeltown-heroin-runners-aged-eight-1-2816485

Not trying to be rude, but for most part, you're talking rubbish mate, especially if you are including London in this drivel of yours.

I'm from the UK, from London to be exact. And London is the place where most organized crime, gang activity and gun crime occurs in the UK. I know all about crime, gangs and street culture in London and the UK, and the people connected to it - I would know first hand about the subject and have extensive knowledge on it.

I know the gangs in London that firearms, shoot to kill, and they shoot and kill people quite often. They don't shoot people in the legs just to avoid a serious charge, I really don't know where you get that bullsh*t from. If gang members in London shoot anyone in the legs, it's because they were lousy shots or shooting wildly, not because they wanna avoid a serious charge. Yeah shotguns are used a lot in British gun crime, but here in London, gang members use 9mm pistols much more than shotguns. In addition to that, London gangs use small submachine guns quite a lot too, especially Mac-10s, shotguns are used less commonly here. The reason why there is much less gun-related murder and violence in the UK than in the U.S. is simple - the UK has huge restrictions on gun ownership and very low public access to firearms, whereas the U.S. has the total opposite. It's nothing to DO with shooting people in the legs that is for sure.

The UK has much less violent crime than the USA, you talking complete, utter bullsh*t by claiming otherwise. The USA has much more violent crime than the UK by far, even the most average, medium-sized American city can boast a much higher rate of murder, violence, gang activity and gun crime relative to population size than the whole of London, and London is bigger than many U.S. cities.

Don't act like very young children selling crack on streets is a very common thing in the UK, because it's not. Yeah sure, there are cases of it happening, but don't act like it's a regular occurrence in a laughable effort to make the UK seem so hard in crime compared to the U.S. The youngest your're gonna get selling crack in the UK's streets are more likely to be teenagers from 14 or 15 years upwards, not 8 year-olds like your greatly exaggerating. Like a guy on here said, in U.S, there cities that have 8 year olds walking around with pistols and fully automatic firearms, and you're trying to make it seem like Leeds is such a notorious and rough city because it had a case of an 8-year old selling crack lol.

Another bit of nonsense I gotta set straight. UK gangs do not regularly have brawls with melee weapons. It happens, but nowhere on a regular basis, it happens very sporadically, at least here in London anyway. Rival London gangs are more likely to move around in medium sized groups, hunting or waiting for an opportunity to stab or shoot at each other whenever a confrontation takes place.

Bro, your embarrassing yourself, seriously stop making yourself look and sound so ridiculous !!

Edited February 12, 2014 by Official General

February 12, 2014

To the people talking about UK gangs, there's more stabbings in the UK than there are in the US, and more stabbings in the UK than there are shootings in the US. Because of this, you're more likely to survive an attack in the UK than the US, simply because the US has much easier access to firearms.

Also, if you are to be shot in the UK chances are you're getting shot in the legs, as that's a way to avoid a more serious charge.(Shotguns are also one of if not the most used firearms by British gangsters, and depending on the type of ammo you use, you are much more likely to survive that compared to the types of firearms (Assault Rifles and modern pistols) American gangsters use. The same goes for stabbings now a days, most people get stabbed in the legs as if you get arrested, it's less of a charge, but you can still hit arteries and kill the person. Then you get things like Glasgow Smiles which show that UK gangs are much more brutal than US ones.

Also, there is more violent crime in the UK than there is in the US. But you're more likely to suvive violence in the UK simply because US gangs use firearms much, much more often, and UK gangs use melee instead much, much more often. We also have free health care. And as stated previously, UK gangs tend to purposely take measures to NOT kill people, as they'd rather not get charged with murder.

A lot of gang fighting in the UK is large brawls with melee weapons , split up into two teams. One gang on one side, another on the other side, and they fight. And it's more about post codes and streets, areas, than the US.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/gang-chop-off-rivals-manhood-with-chisel-1068643

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

And in my area of Leeds, England, children as young as 8 were selling crack and heroin on the street.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/the-chapeltown-heroin-runners-aged-eight-1-2816485

Not trying to be rude, but for most part, you're talking rubbish mate, especially if you are including London in this drivel of yours.

I'm from the UK, from London to be exact. And London is the place where most organized crime, gang activity and gun crime occurs in the UK. I know all about crime, gangs and street culture in London and the UK, and the people connected to it - I would know first hand about the subject and have extensive knowledge on it.

I know the gangs in London that firearms, shoot to kill, and they shoot and kill people quite often. They don't shoot people in the legs just to avoid a serious charge, I really don't know where you get that bullsh*t from. If gang members in London shoot anyone in the legs, it's because they were lousy shots or shooting wildly, not because they wanna avoid a serious charge. Yeah shotguns are used a lot in British gun crime, but here in London, gang members use 9mm pistols much more than shotguns. In addition to that, London gangs use small submachine guns quite a lot too, especially Mac-10s, shotguns are used less commonly here. The reason why there is much less gun-related murder and violence in the UK than in the U.S. is simple - the UK has huge restrictions on gun ownership and very low public access to firearms, whereas the U.S. has the total opposite. It's nothing to DO with shooting people in the legs that is for sure.

The UK has much less violent crime than the USA, you talking complete, utter bullsh*t by claiming otherwise. The USA has much more violent crime than the UK by far, even the most average, medium-sized American city can boast a much higher rate of murder, violence, gang activity and gun crime relative to population size than the whole of London, and London is bigger than many U.S. cities.

Don't act like very young children selling crack on streets is a very common thing in the UK, because it's not. Yeah sure, there are cases of it happening, but don't act like it's a regular occurrence in a laughable effort to make the UK seem so hard in crime compared to the U.S. The youngest your're gonna get selling crack in the UK's streets are more likely to be teenagers from 14 or 15 years upwards, not 8 year-olds like your greatly exaggerating. Like a guy on here said, in U.S, there cities that have 8 year olds walking around with pistols and fully automatic firearms, and you're trying to make it seem like Leeds is such a notorious and rough city because it had a case of an 8-year old selling crack lol.

Another bit of nonsense I gotta set straight. UK gangs do not regularly have brawls with melee weapons. It happens, but nowhere on a regular basis, it happens very sporadically, at least here in London anyway. Rival London gangs are more likely to move around in medium sized groups, hunting or waiting for an opportunity to stab or shoot at each other whenever a confrontation takes place.

Bro, your embarrassing yourself, seriously stop making yourself look and sound so ridiculous !!

First of all, London is NOT a bad city in the UK lol, it's one of the nicest. The majority of Organized crime and street culture happens up North and in the Midlands, it hasn't been a big ting down South for ages. Also, you're British and yet you dick ride Americans and try and gain the respect of some Yanks that don't know sh*t? Secondly, I'm from that area of Leeds, and I posted PROOF and STATISTICS and f*cking FACTS, that none of you have done.

Also, the UK is much more violent than the US, my Auntie and Cousins live in Detroit, Michigan and my Aunt moved there from Birmingham, UK, and my auntie and nana moved there temporarily for a holiday and they said they loved it and had no trouble. FFS my two ELDERLY relatives walkked through Detroit at 2am and nothing happened, even though my American relatives were sh*t scared saying they'd get hurt, so they called the police and my British fam' said they had a great time and loved it.

Also, Rival London Gangs do have brawls with melee weapons a lot, albeit no where near as much as here up North or the Midlands. London is NOT a bad city lol, stop acting like people in the UK think London is bad, you're a bunch of pussies.

And that 8 year old selling crack was not ONE case, it was a REGULAR thing, that's why there was a f*cking news article about it you moron. Also, look at Liverpool, where there's cases of 12 year old kids carrying guns regularly.

Finally, I posted proof and statistics that the UK has more violent crime than the US, prove me wrong with facts and statistics and we're good, otherwise you're jus chatting sh*t because you idolise American gangs for whatever reason and act like you're some f*cking authority on them when you're from f*cking London. And you do NOT know sh*t about street culture lol, no fa**ot that wants to be a Yank's bitch boy would know sh*t about street culture, you're obviously some middle class fa**ot that thinks Crips and Bloods are cool because UK gangs victimise you despite you wanting to be a gangster.

Also, that London vs American city for size sh*t, London is 10 times more Dangerous than New York, google it or I'll post a link to the stats and facts if you want, and London is more dangerous than most US cities yet is nowhere near that bad compared to most UK cities. Also, getting shot in the legs is a big thing here, also the type of shot used, if you blast someone at close range in the chest with a .410 with bird shot, they're most likely not gonna' die, unless you blast their face with it.

Again, I posted proof to back up everything I say, you're just exaggerating and falsifying facts because you want to look cool infront of some gay ass Yanks.

Ss4gogeta0: The only gangs in the US that use Machetes are the dudes originally from South America-Central America-Mexico and Asia etc. As in, they were born and raised there, or born there etc. Or their entire family was born and or raised there. Not the home-grown gangs.

February 12, 2014

Crime in the United States would dominate the UK in a heartbeat. Over here - We have the Asian American gangs. We actually have the Triads and Yakuza over here. The Crips and Bloods are over here too. Not to forget nearly every black community in the United States has a gang. We have the Irish gangs over here. The Irish Mob (some being the IRA) and the Westies in New York. In Boston, we used to have the notorious Whitey Bulger and his infamous crew. We have a huge amount of Italian-American crime. We have over 20 American Mafia crime families. They are mostly active in New York. The Canadian Mafia control the drug network in Italy and in New York. The Hispanic gangs in California/Los Angeles are huge. There is a murder each day. The murder usually ends in a gun fight. We also have the Cartels which operate hugely in America - Pablo Escobar and his current drug crew. We have the Russian Mafia whom control a majority of all of the high-profiled drug networks throughout the whole of the United States. We have the most ruthless prison gangs, which are mostly white supremacist gangs.

Top that.

February 12, 2014

Few things to point out in response to the initial post:

1) Violent crime in the UK is lower, not higher than in the US. You can see this by directly comparing statistics for murder, attempted murder, rape and robbery involving violence (which are the only four crimes categorised as "violent" in the statistics put out by the FBI that most people seem to draw comparisons from, including your sources). The difference comes from how crimes are recorded. The UK definition of what constitutes "violence" is much broader than that of the US. For instance, bag-snatching can be categorised as violent crime in the UK but isn't in the states. Also, the US have a strange metric for recording crimes where only the most serious offence in a single incident is recorded. So a home invasion robbery resulting in two attempted murders and a murder would be categorised as a single crime in the US and several in the UK. Comparisons of overall figures isn't accurate- you have to address each crime in isolation.

2) Shotguns are seldom used in criminal activity. By far the most common firearms are blank firing weapons which in the UK still come under firearm legislation. Some of these have been crudely converted to live fire but the majority aren't. This goes some way to explaining why the UK statistics on firearm discharges are so much lower than criminal events involving firearms with no weapon fired.

The only notable use of shotguns is in gangster films and for targeted attacks by Republican paramilitaries in Northern Ireland, and the only reason those are common is because there's a serious drought of ammunition for semi-automatic pistols which would normally be used in knee cappings due to how good the UK police and border control have been at preventing contraband ammunition from entering the country.

To be honest, most of your comments so far in this thread are a combination of tabloid scaremongering and hyperbole based on subjective hearsay. So I'd avoid laying into other posters who dare to disagree with your assessment of the situation in the UK until you can establish at least a little bit of credibility or maybe a proper academic source that isn't ripped from the headlines of some borderline-fascist tabloid.

February 12, 2014

TheTaterTot, how old are you? You seem to fantasizing about an entirely fictional violent UK, when in actual fact nearly all statistics suggest Britain is the safest is has been for decades.

Why do you like the idea of the UK being more violent than the US? (Its likely not, by the way) It is nothing to boast about and it does not make you look hard for being a UK resident.

February 12, 2014

Are you a gang-member wannabe? Because who the f*ck goes on the GTA Forums comparing who's gang is meaner? A gang member? Surely an actual mean-ass gang-member wouldn't have the time or reason to come here. So my guess is you fantasize about being part of a badman mean-motherf*cker gang like in GTA but every time you try to join they make fun of you.

Have I nailed it?

February 12, 2014

If I had to compare the crime, gangs and all that stuff between U.K. and the U.S. in terms of cars, it would be like this: Crime in U.K. would be a 1955 Chevrolet Nomad and the U.S. crime would be a 2014 Dodge Charger SRT8. Somebody else get the point.

February 12, 2014

At least in the UK the violent criminals have the courtesy to leave a little remaining heroin in the syringes before they stab you with them.

Anyway, why in the f*ck exactly were these posts extracted from a thread in the V forum to its own topic here in Gen Chat?

February 12, 2014

Im from England and I dont know anyone personally that has had a violent crime (murder, rape etc) commited against them.

February 12, 2014

There's only one true gang in the world.. Christianity

Boom.. let it start.

February 12, 2014

I don't think the UK is violent at all. Maybe on a friday night after everyone has been drinking.

February 12, 2014

UK gangs are bare gays innit blud.

February 12, 2014

Few things to point out in response to the initial post:

1) Violent crime in the UK is lower, not higher than in the US. You can see this by directly comparing statistics for murder, attempted murder, rape and robbery involving violence (which are the only four crimes categorised as "violent" in the statistics put out by the FBI that most people seem to draw comparisons from, including your sources). The difference comes from how crimes are recorded. The UK definition of what constitutes "violence" is much broader than that of the US. For instance, bag-snatching can be categorised as violent crime in the UK but isn't in the states. Also, the US have a strange metric for recording crimes where only the most serious offence in a single incident is recorded. So a home invasion robbery resulting in two attempted murders and a murder would be categorised as a single crime in the US and several in the UK. Comparisons of overall figures isn't accurate- you have to address each crime in isolation.

2) Shotguns are seldom used in criminal activity. By far the most common firearms are blank firing weapons which in the UK still come under firearm legislation. Some of these have been crudely converted to live fire but the majority aren't. This goes some way to explaining why the UK statistics on firearm discharges are so much lower than criminal events involving firearms with no weapon fired.

The only notable use of shotguns is in gangster films and for targeted attacks by Republican paramilitaries in Northern Ireland, and the only reason those are common is because there's a serious drought of ammunition for semi-automatic pistols which would normally be used in knee cappings due to how good the UK police and border control have been at preventing contraband ammunition from entering the country.

To be honest, most of your comments so far in this thread are a combination of tabloid scaremongering and hyperbole based on subjective hearsay. So I'd avoid laying into other posters who dare to disagree with your assessment of the situation in the UK until you can establish at least a little bit of credibility or maybe a proper academic source that isn't ripped from the headlines of some borderline-fascist tabloid.

First of all I wanna' point out I did NOT post this in Gen Chat or start this thread, it was moved here from a different thread where I was responding to various posts in that thread.

Right:

1: Bag snatching is not a violent offence in the UK, where did you get that from? And on the FBI statistics: In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.

In the USA, threat of force is categorised as a violent crime and is recorded as such in the FBI statistics. Threat of force is NOT recorded as a violent crime in the UK, and is not recorded as such in the statistics.

Also:

The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines aggravated assault as an unlawful attack by one person upon another for the purpose of inflicting severe or aggravated bodily injury. The UCR Program further specifies that this type of assault is usually accompanied by the use of a weapon or by other means likely to produce death or great bodily harm. Attempted aggravated assault that involves the display of—or threat to use—a gun, knife, or other weapon is included in this crime category because serious personal injury would likely result if the assault were completed. When aggravated assault and larceny-theft occur together, the offense falls under the category of robbery.

Once again, threats are categorised as AGGRAVATED assault. Aggravated assault is the US equivalent of serious assault, and in the UK serious assault does not include threats, it has to include serious bodily injury.

2.: Actually, you're right there, blank firing weapons are the most commonly used I believe, although in the sense of actual firearms it's shotguns, although as you stated, brocock air pistols are commonly converted to fire live ammunition. But, on the point of gangster films and Irish paramilitaries being one of if not the only places where you find shotguns used, you're really, really mistaken. Take a quick look at most commonly used weapons in places like Liverpool, Birmingham, Nottingham, Leeds, Bristol, etc. and you'll see sawn off shotguns, particularly .410 shotguns are commonly used.

Also, I believe my sources covered the field pretty well, the Telegraph and Daily Mail are both on opposite sides of the political spectrum and are simply reporting what the EU (Was it UN? not sure.) were saying they'd found when investigating violent crime.

Finally, as I've shown here, the UK actually makes it harder to categorise something as violent crime than the US does. The misconception that the UK categorises more crime as violent crime than most other countries is actually the media's sensationalism, not what I'm posting.

If you can back up what YOU'RE saying with sources, please do, as that's what I've done. So please show me where the UK categorises this and that as violence, as I've yet to find that.

Oh, and on the topic of the US only recording the most serious offence: When aggravated assault and larceny-theft occur together, the offense falls under the category of robbery.

The data presented in Crime in the United States reflect the Hierarchy Rule, which requires that only the most serious offense in a multiple-offense criminal incident be counted. The descending order of UCR violent crimes are murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault, followed by the property crimes of burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. Although arson is also a property crime, the Hierarchy Rule does not apply to the offense of arson. In cases in which an arson occurs in conjunction with another violent or property crime, both crimes are reported, the arson and the additional crime.

While the hierarchy rule applies, robbery, rape etc. are still counted in the Violent Crime statistics. So if someone threatens somebody, then commits larceny theft, it's counted as robbery, albeit no aggravated assault took place anyway according to UK statistics. Albeit I do see that's something that need to look at, and will do. The hierarchy rule, that is.

But, you could also look at various statements from police officers etc. who talk about how they purposely lower crime figures, categorise crimes as more minor crimes than they actually are etc. in the UK, as that also helps balance out the statistics.

February 12, 2014

TBH whenever I think of crime in the UK, I think of a bunch of anthropomorphic white and orange cats riding around on studded motor-bikes and speaking polari very loudly.

February 12, 2014

Hahahaha this is insane! UK has a higher violent crime rate than the US? Gang members shoot for the legs to get a lower sentence? London is not as bad as the north? Lol.

Let me tell you a few things about gang members buddy. Chances are if a guy is in a gang packing an illegal weapon and is shooting at people, he don't give a f*ck about getting a lesser charge.

Now you're from Leeds and sure, I wouldn't let Satan's spawn suffer living in Leeds, but if you think Leeds or Middlesbrough or Sunderland is worse than London then clearly you haven't been to London. The city does not count. You spend a few weeks in Brixton or Camden or Tower Hamlets and then act like the north is worse than London in terms of gang crime and deprivation.

Also, I believe my sources covered the field pretty well, the Telegraph and Daily Mail are both on opposite sides of the political spectrum

Jesus Christ I didn't even notice that part.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Nale Dixon

February 12, 2014

It's embarrassing that people see it as a point of pride that their country (or part of their country) is more dangerous, and has more violent crimes than another.

February 12, 2014

Try going Chicago & see kids at age 8 walking down the streets with AK's & Mac-11's.

is it SERIOUSLY that bad there?

Assuming we're talking about street gangs, this is what I always thought:

American

British

Australian

Dutch

And so forth.

February 12, 2014

That's not a UK gang it's just a group of try hard kids in berghaus jackets.

February 12, 2014

UK gangs are bare gays innit blud.

itz becoz of da govament innit? ya get me?

February 12, 2014

That's not a UK gang it's just a group of try hard kids in berghaus jackets.

Is this any more accurate?

February 12, 2014

Oh sh*t it's the Brotherhood of Scooters aka scooooooooter brothers.

February 12, 2014

Right:

1: Bag snatching is not a violent offence in the UK, where did you get that from?

The fact the Ministry of Justice records all crimes falling under the category of "robbery" as violent.

And on the FBI statistics: In the FBIs Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.

Exactly my point. All sexual offences below forcible rape on the scale of severity aren't categorised as violent in the US. Assaults against the person that don't meet the criteria of "aggravated" are not categorised as violent. Robbery reporting is significantly more stringent than in the UK.

Then there's the issue of reporting of crime. It's no secret that a great deal of the US minority population do not engage with the authorities on the reporting of crime at all. Given that the majority of crime happens in neighbourhoods with low average incomes and high social conflict- those very areas- one could argue that the statistical output from the US surveys is fundamentally flawed. The same pressures exist to some degree in the UK, but by all accounts they're more minor.

In the USA, threat of force is categorised as a violent crime and is recorded as such in the FBI statistics.

No, it isn't. As your own quote says, only murder, nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Unless a threat of force exists inside one of those four offences, it isn't categorised.

Threat of force is NOT recorded as a violent crime in the UK, and is not recorded as such in the statistics.

Evidence? This goes against the MoJ's own reporting guidelines.

Once again, threats are categorised as AGGRAVATED assault. Aggravated assault is the US equivalent of serious assault, and in the UK serious assault does not include threats, it has to include serious bodily injury.

Yes, but UK violent crime also includes all assaults that don't involve serious injury (that is, everything below "aggravated" on the US spectrum), most sexual offences, robbery without explicit or implicit violence and any crime that involves the use of a weapon.

Also, I believe my sources covered the field pretty well, the Telegraph and Daily Mail are both on opposite sides of the political spectrum

No they're not. They're both right-wing.

Finally, as I've shown here, the UK actually makes it harder to categorise something as violent crime than the US does.

Factually wrong, for all the reasons I've explained above.

If you can back up what YOU'RE saying with sources, please do, as that's what I've done. So please show me where the UK categorises this and that as violence, as I've yet to find that.

Gladly:

Fully sourced blog article dispelling the myth that the UK is more violent than the US

Politifact analysis of social media reports that UK violent crime rate higher than that of US categorise it as "myth"

Sceptical Libertarian analysis

Show me a single academically merit-worthy argument that the US violent crime rate is below the UK's and I'll eat my shoes.

Look, the idea that the UK has a higher crime rate than the US was initially a creation of the American far right used to critique firearm control. It was latched onto by a couple of right wing UK news media outlets because it worked well in their crime and justice crusading. There's no academic or statistically merit-worthy evidence supporting it, only these half-truths drawn from apples-to-oranges comparisons.

I'm also quite confused about what you were saying in response to my comment about single incident reporting. You seem to agree with me, then contradict yourself, then claim it's irrelevant. They're all mutually exclusive y'know.

February 12, 2014

I don't have any statistics, so this is purely opinion/speculation, but I would say the United States has more gang-related activity than the United Kingdom. You're comparing violent crime statistics, which is great and all, but that really shows nothing about gangs. Ordinary citizens can decide to rob/murder/assault someone without being gang affiliated.

February 12, 2014

sivis, I'm interested in your position of the fair & equal journalism behind The Guardian.

February 12, 2014

Classifying Offenses (excerpt) Uniform Criminal Reporting Manual
CRIMINAL HOMICIDE (1)
Criminal Homicide—Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter (1a)
Justifiable Homicide
Criminal Homicide—Manslaughter by Negligence (1b)
FORCIBLE RAPE (2)
Forcible Rape—Rape by Force (2a)
Forcible Rape—Attempts to Commit Forcible Rape (2b)
ROBBERY (3)
Robbery—Firearm (3a)
Robbery—Knife or Cutting Instrument (3b)
Robbery—Other Dangerous Weapon (3c)
Robbery—Strong-arm—Hands, Fists, Feet, Etc. (3d)
AGGRAVATED ASSAULT (4)
Aggravated Assault—Firearm (4a)
Aggravated Assault—Knife or Cutting Instrument (4b)
Aggravated Assault—Other Dangerous Weapon (4c)
Aggravated Assault—Hands, Fists, Feet, Etc.—Aggravated Injury (4d)
Other Assaults—Simple, Not Aggravated (4e)
LARCENY-THEFT (6)
Pocket-picking (6Xa)
Purse-snatching (6Xb)
Shoplifting (6Xc)
Theft From Motor Vehicles (Except Theft of Motor Vehicle Parts and Accessories) (6Xd)
Theft of Motor Vehicle Parts and Accessories (6Xe)
Theft of Bicycles (6Xf)
Theft From Buildings (6Xg)
Theft From Coin-operated Device or Machine (6Xh)
All Other Larceny-theft Not Specifically Classified (6Xi)

Edited February 12, 2014 by lil weasel

February 12, 2014

sivis, I'm interested in your position of the fair & equal journalism behind The Guardian.

I've been interviewed by The Guardian twice and contributed (albeit without citation) once. I'm largely indifferent; I enjoy their analyses of social and education policy and some of their foreign policy stuff but can't stand most of the utter morons they have in Comment Is Free. Plus the fact they used some of my research work on piracy in the Horn of Africa without citing me as a source pissed me off a bit.

February 12, 2014