GTAO: a condensed history (Is R* Abandoning GTAO?)

[xNinjaStarfishx]

 

I think if you watch traffic on the R* forums and here AND jump servers AND try to find full races you'd come to this conclusion. At least in comparison to a month ago or in October/November. What leads you to believe that interest isn't at a record low (for this game)?

I've always had empty races, this isn't new for me but that's not what i was getting at.

The traffic here is only a small number, you read complaint threads enough and suddenly it seems like 10,000 players have left.

 

I just find it interesting that some people think up something and make it seem like it's a fact. (I know you said guess though, so i was asking you how you worked that out in a friendly manner.)

Oh, I wasn't being aggressive or sarcastic. I ave been watching these forums and R*'s forums. Traffic is down.

I have been playing races and death matches (join random) since release and noticed less and less full lobbies.

I've also noticed a dramatic shift in the way the player base in a given Freeroam mode behave, with less casual players seeming to be present.

 

This is all based off of Forums and Xbox live servers though. PS3 may be a whole different ball game, and probably is if my time in GTA IV multiplayer was a sign of how it is.

[beat_savy_9]

 

OP, I believe production budgeted for a certain life cycle and staff is under contract for that set period. To abandon those agreements would mean financial penalties discouraging such a decision. However, if rather than relying on micro transactions based on no new content, and instead adopting the accepted model of cosmetic micro transactions, also modifying the lobby system to accommodate more then one style of game play, I think the longevity might have surpassed the afore mentioned discrete cycle.

 

As it stands now, I think we can expect at least a year and a half more attention from production, after that, crap shoot guess.

Seems like you have some insight into the game development process. If they followed industry standards and contracted employees based solely on GTAO development, then yeah we will see a good amount of support for the life of those contracts. What if, however, they used on-staff Devs to support GTAO and could move them to another project within the studio? Is this even a possibility?

 

I was actually only referring to continued support the game has currently, and for any unreleased content already developed as you mentioned. I believe further innovation was to be financed by the micro transactions.

[marco-polo]

Rebuttal

 

Fair call, i'll pay that.

[xNinjaStarfishx]

@ Beat_Saavy - So assuming the expansions were based on income from micro transactions, they would have contracted Devs? That seems pretty presumptive but then again they are a multi-million dollar studio...

 

@ Marco-Polo - Do you see heavier traffic on PS3? I'd be interested to know.

[rampage08]

I have stopped playing now, it was good but i think i'll move on to other games until *fingers crossed* something interesting can pull me back in GTAO. In my final days playing the game, i noticed a bit of decrease in players on servers. Most servers only have 4-5 players whereas a few months ago, moat servers would always be full.

[beat_savy_9]

@ Beat_Saavy - So assuming the expansions were based on income from micro transactions, they would have contracted Devs? That seems pretty presumptive but then again they are a multi-million dollar studio...

w/o getting too deep into the logistics, they pay their staff to do what ever production considers the best return on their investment apparently. If there is dividend revenue coming from an already finished project, it seems logical to divert some of those funds to feed the mill as it were.

[marco-polo]

@ Marco-Polo - Do you see heavier traffic on PS3? I'd be interested to know.

 

Every lobby i've been in, every death-match (i've never seen full lobbies before), every killing comp has been full. Missions are starting to become a big thing again and general activity has increased on my end. (Could be just my luck and not a representation of all PS3 users)

 

How long people want to save up for again when they were used to blowing it is an important question i think, as that really did pull the motivation out for some of my friends - having to repeat an already repetitive process.

[Mattrax]

I hope they do stick with it, because if they do eventually get on top of all these issues then at least they will be better prepared for next time. But that's probably a long way away.

[luisniko]

For me it's just possible for Rockstar to shut GTA Online down if the reason is the major hacker attack and below standard profit to support the game. If so, their last resort is to keep releasing DLC for single player.

 

In my opinion again, I think they could save the Online by making the game more like-able by removing those obvious virtual-money eating aspects and let people buy Cash Cards and contents because they feel need it, instead of being indirectly forced. Of course, nobody ever directly forcing us to buy Cash Cards, but there's a 'satire sign' which always been thrown at us that we actually have to buy Cash Cards.

[marco-polo]

Of course, nobody ever directly forcing us to buy Cash Cards, but there's a 'satire sign' which always been thrown at us that we actually have to buy Cash Cards.

 

Oh gawd, here come the ass-munchers saying that "it's not hard to make 100k in 20 mins"...

[darkwar854]

GTA will turn into a tps military pvp game. Well, it already is.

[Pitch~Black]

You may or may not be correct in your assessment of the player drop off (though I expect to some degree you are), but I think that was to be expected and R* has been around long enough to know this. It's hard to hold a gamer's attention, especially casual gamers which are usually in the majority, for long stretches of time when new games are always coming out. In this case there is also the release of brand new consoles to compete for a players interest on top of that. Players will just loose interest even in the most popular of games if you give them no reason to remain involved.

But this has me scratching my head a bit, actually. Let me explain. As stated above, after a while player interest WILL drop off. It's only natural and to be expected. However, developers know this and one of the tools at their disposal against this is DLC. It generates renewed interest in the game and, if the DLC is impressive/interesting enough, maybe even growth in sales of the game itself. However, R* has with GTAO itself the means to do more than just that. They can add things such as new races/DM's etc. server-side to try to keep some small amount of freshness in the game on a regular basis. In other words, they most certainly have the means to generate and renew interest with the players of the game. But, for reasons I can't quite fathom, they are doing next to nothing of the sort.

I realize they are going after modders/hackers/youtubers and the like; and this is necessary to be sure. However, I don't agree that it should be all, or even mainly, their focus. They ought to be focusing on holding, and generating new, interest in the game. Because people naturally will if you give them nothing new. R* needs to pay more attention to the actual fans who want to just play their game; cater to them instead of chasing the baddies all day long and doing little else. It seems they've gotten so focused on the problems that they've forgotten about the game itself and that it could use a little attention from time to time, as could it's many fans.

In this situation it's not difficult at all to view R* as arrogant, or at very least seriously out of touch, and even cold toward the people who purchased their game. Additionally, they haven't said much of anything in a while, and in the absence of new information people start drawing their own conclusions - like R* is abandoning the game. And what else are people to conclude when R* doesn't give them any reason to think otherwise?

I can only express my own point of view, of course, but my understanding going into the launch of GTAO was that R* was going to be active in keeping this game fresh and interesting through various means for a long time to come. Judging from it's first four months, I have serious doubts that the experience they talked about and advertised will ever actually become a reality. It's horribly disappointing to see such vast potential simply fester away.

[marco-polo]

Good post.

[xNinjaStarfishx]

You may or may not be correct in your assessment of the player drop off (though I expect to some degree you are), but I think that was to be expected and R* has been around long enough to know this. It's hard to hold a gamer's attention, especially casual gamers which are usually in the majority, for long stretches of time when new games are always coming out. In this case there is also the release of brand new consoles to compete for a players interest on top of that. Players will just loose interest even in the most popular of games if you give them no reason to remain involved.

But this has me scratching my head a bit, actually. Let me explain. As stated above, after a while player interest WILL drop off. It's only natural and to be expected. However, developers know this and one of the tools at their disposal against this is DLC. It generates renewed interest in the game and, if the DLC is impressive/interesting enough, maybe even growth in sales of the game itself. However, R* has with GTAO itself the means to do more than just that. They can add things such as new races/DM's etc. server-side to try to keep some small amount of freshness in the game on a regular basis. In other words, they most certainly have the means to generate and renew interest with the players of the game. But, for reasons I can't quite fathom, they are doing next to nothing of the sort.

I realize they are going after modders/hackers/youtubers and the like; and this is necessary to be sure. However, I don't agree that it should be all, or even mainly, their focus. They ought to be focusing on holding, and generating new, interest in the game. Because people naturally will if you give them nothing new. R* needs to pay more attention to the actual fans who want to just play their game; cater to them instead of chasing the baddies all day long and doing little else. It seems they've gotten so focused on the problems that they've forgotten about the game itself and that it could use a little attention from time to time, as could it's many fans.

In this situation it's not difficult at all to view R* as arrogant, or at very least seriously out of touch, and even cold toward the people who purchased their game. Additionally, they haven't said much of anything in a while, and in the absence of new information people start drawing their own conclusions - like R* is abandoning the game. And what else are people to conclude when R* doesn't give them any reason to think otherwise?

I can only express my own point of view, of course, but my understanding going into the launch of GTAO was that R* was going to be active in keeping this game fresh and interesting through various means for a long time to come. Judging from it's first four months, I have serious doubts that the experience they talked about and advertised will ever actually become a reality. It's horribly disappointing to see such vast potential simply fester away.

Wow. Well worded and very convincing, if on the same page as me (for the most part). I ask the same question about the potential of the game being wasted. Hopefully it will turn around, but I just don't see it happening...if I were a R* exec I'd want to move on to the next revenue stream, be it DLC, Bully 2, or whatever it might be.

[iainspad]

OP, this game has been active for only 4 months, when Rockstar are planning to make this work for years.

They can't abandon GTAO because, obviously, they have investors in this product, and they want this product to work regardless, so to suddenly pull the plug this early is a stupid idea. It would be very bad for business, and there's no reason for them to get rid of any future content. There are people loving this game, and while you could argue a ton of people bitching and whining about the quality, people will act like entitled little sh*ts and bitch about it regardless if it works or not.

In short, they can't kill this, they're not going to do this from a major business standpoint.

Besides, it's not as if it's a major loss; people do use the cash cards so they can't cut off a source for their revenue.

[LeAristocrat]

Lol, I'm in denial. I got a whole crew, two running websites (1, 2), and am in the process of creating a YouTube channel. I put a lot of hours into it and I hope it doesn't go south.

[Frostee]

Just a note

If you have to preface your post with "This isn't a whining thread...etc"

 

Its a whining thread

 

Rock star isn't dropping anything. Quit your bitching that stuff isn't happening fast enough

[iainspad]

Lol, I'm in denial. I got a whole crew, two running websites (1, 2), and am in the process of creating a YouTube channel. I put a lot of hours into it and I hope it doesn't go south.

Yo, you made a website for your crew? That's f*cking awesome!

[xNinjaStarfishx]

Iainspad - I'm not saying I have the invite as to how much R* draws in from Microtransactions, and you may be right about it being a valid reason to keep GTAO afloat. It just seems that a prefect storm of problems, distractions and the whole new console release that has me thinking it's wise for them to move on...

 

As a spokesperson, I could say "we have the ability to put new worlds in this game..." But it doesn't mean it's in the budget, or that it's economically viable for the studio. I've seen enough games come and go to make an educated guess on why things are occurring and what will happen... Is it correct, well maybe.

[ChillerVapes]

As for the player drop off on xbox one reason maybe because a lot of xboxes were bought for Christmas 2012 and if the parents were good, they included 1 year of xbox live. This will have run out by now and a lot of kids will be begging for another years live to play online. I know that is the case for my nephew.

 

There's also the fact that rich kids will have got a new gen for Christmas and won't look back because they will be too obsessed with the new games.

 

PS3 servers are 50/50. Sometimes they are full when you join, others only have one or 2 players but a quick find new session usually yields a nice full sever.

[Thegemte]

I think someone said the servers between PS4/PS3 are different. You have to pay for the PS4 one don't you?

 

The PS3 free online play with Sony, and the PS4 to play online have to have a premium account with Sony and as such pay for that service. I have both, and its not that expensive but it can be a deal breaker for some surely. That said i have turned my PS4 on 5 times since launch day only. PS3 has many more options in games at this point i find.

 

I agree with you comment on races being empty also. Certain races/missions it seem to be the place if people want full lobbies, but its RP/Cash grinding races/missions that get boring with no variation. I quit those lobbies immediately. Been there and done that. I look for now the different variations in races, don't care if i win or lose, or about the money/RP that it makes. I like the different challenges the different races/missions/death matches set. (As long as its not a melee only death match with not weapons.)

[j0hn_d0e]

The fact they are actively banning YT'ers and DNS'ers kind of shows they haven't abandoned GTAO.

 

OP is a bit of a drama queen.

[Pitch~Black]

OP, this game has been active for only 4 months, when Rockstar are planning to make this work for years.

 

They can't abandon GTAO because, obviously, they have investors in this product, and they want this product to work regardless, so to suddenly pull the plug this early is a stupid idea. It would be very bad for business, and there's no reason for them to get rid of any future content. There are people loving this game, and while you could argue a ton of people bitching and whining about the quality, people will act like entitled little sh*ts and bitch about it regardless if it works or not.

 

In short, they can't kill this, they're not going to do this from a major business standpoint.

Besides, it's not as if it's a major loss; people do use the cash cards so they can't cut off a source for their revenue.

While I don't actually disagree with you, I do think there may be a couple of things you may not be taking in to account. One being we have no idea how much effect the hacking/glitching may have had, and may be having, on R*'s original plans. I, too, was (and still am) under the impression that they plan support for this game for years to come. It seems pretty obvious that sales of cash cards were intended, at very least, to help support that continued effort. But what if the cost of programming, researching, repairing, hunting down and prevention of continued hacking/modding/glitching (not to mention server maintanence and such things) outweighs that of the profits made through cash cards? That could force them and their investors to reevaluate or even completely scrap their original plans. Hell, the investors themselves could force this on R* if they get jittery enough. Honestly, the game has had an unfair amount of problems; plenty enough to make an investor jittery.

The other point is that if they were to, say, back off (abandon is too harsh a word, I think) from what they originally intended to do with GTAO, it really wouldn't be that great of a loss to a developer such as R*. It would just be a disappointment and mostly minor setback. They've already made a mint off GTA 5 and they have other titles that are future big sellers that I'm sure they are working on like RDR 2 and even an eventual GTA 6, among others. Point being that GTAO as a source of income through cash cards would be a very disposable one to R*, certainly one they can live without if need be. So I don't agree that they have to continue with their original plans. Especially if the cost of continuing is greater than what those cash cards bring in. I'm not saying that's the case (because I obviously have no way of knowing), it's just food for thought. It would, though, go a long way toward explaining why they are so focused on hackers and such and seemingly so little on the game itself.

[Ickabob7734]

I honestly think we'd probly see a patch by now if didn't have to clean up the messes all these asshat hackers and cheaters made. That sh*t takes away from time that could be spent delivering us new content. Once they get things squared away, I'm sure we'll see some new stuff.

[iTz-JoNeSy]

If they do abandon it, they may as well abandon their office. I'll class them a worser company than EA and never purchase their crap again. They have no more chances to purposely delay their games to increase sales and hype it up to be something it isn't. GTA IV was the biggest piece of online crap known to gaming and now this is following. GTA V does have potential, but rockstar aren't cut out to make games fun and work.

[ChillerVapes]

Aside from them currently on a big banning spree, I bet they are simply monitoring the way we all play online, looking for exploits and noting them down to patch in the next update. Also, if they see a trend of what we do online, they may add something to make it more interesting or entertaining.

 

Imagine if, instead of killing other players, we all had to join forces in free roam to take on zombies or clowns or an alien invasion or a whole server against martial law enforcement. I don't know just throwing some ideas out there.

[Zoots Remuvah]

And here's why they won't abandon it:

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/GTA-Online-Microtransactions-Worth-100-Million-Per-Year-61894.html

 

 

Despite the glitches, you have to remember there's a vast swathe of the population who will buy games and not realise just how glitched/buggy they are, simply because they are either customers rather than consumers, have little experience of gaming or a wrapped up in the hype surrounding the game and are willing to forgive.

 

There's also the fact that for many, they haven't experienced fully other games or games in the GTA series even. I would expect that quite a few people have actually bought their consoles specifically to play the game, especially if sucked in by the hype surrounding the release, which was beyond anything previously witnessed to say the least.

 

As much as users of this forum complain about microtransactions, there are going to be a lot of people paying for ingame cash. It's an inescapable fact and very much the model that videogaming has moved rapidly towards. It's ironic that one of the radio ads in GTAV mocks Farmville when even the game itself is taking a leaf out of its book. It's not unexpected that players are going to use these, there's people that simply don't have the time, motivation, determination or concentration to make fortunes through the means available in game and find it much easier to hit Playstation store and get a card and *poof* They've got an apartment and an Adder.. You can't realisitically expect such users to get the message of "fighting teh man" by not buying cards. They're not going to be interested in that, rather they're more interested in their instant gratification and they have been supplied with the means to fulfill it.

 

A further point to add, is that if you take the views expressed on a single forum/website as testament to a fact, you do in fact run the risk of ignoring - again - vast swathes of the gaming population. Firstly due to the very nature of forum users perhaps having a more intense interest in a game and being more opinionated on the matter, and secondly, this is an English language forum and you have to bear in mind that the £1bn or so in sales for the game were made worldwide.. I'd imagine that perhaps some of the information circulating around in the non-English speaking world isn't perhaps as exhaustive as it is in English.

 

I think the OP has definitely jumped the gun with the views expressed and really should bear in mind that simple economics is what everything will boil down to in the end.

 

And as for the rats deserting the ship to jump to the next gen, bear in mind how long the PS2 remained in production and games in development for it following the launch of the PS3. There's an underclass of console users - a quite sizeable one - that are dependent on the previous gen technology simply because of cost more than anything else. Parents unable to afford the PS4 for their kid can at least console them with a PS3.

 

So that's my two ha'pennys worth...

Edited February 2, 2014 by Doktor Gott

[gtahighroller]

they might not be abondoning gtao but they arent sticking to their plans from pre-release. they said there would be continual updates/new content and they would be listening/interacting with the community to improve gtao. so far theres been one sh*tty dlc, and then they just stopped communicating. i think they are just letting the gtao dream slowly fade away. they probably see it as a money hole so theyre done investing in it.

[Zoots Remuvah]

they might not be abondoning gtao but they arent sticking to their plans from pre-release. they said there would be continual updates/new content and they would be listening/interacting with the community to improve gtao. so far theres been one sh*tty dlc, and then they just stopped communicating. i think they are just letting the gtao dream slowly fade away. they probably see it as a money hole so theyre done investing in it.

 

Well if you're dealing with the amount of glitchtards they've had to deal with, it's not suprising things have been stalled..

 

It's hopeful though that the hardline and mass banning that seems to be taking place has finally come about.. So that may well finally spur them to release more content.

 

Put yourself in their shoes for a minute.. Do you want to add content or launch some DLC only to find youtube videos title "BILLIONS AFTER DLC CONTENT DOWNLOAD!" the day after it's released?

 

Go figure.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Doktor Gott

[gtahighroller]

 

they might not be abondoning gtao but they arent sticking to their plans from pre-release. they said there would be continual updates/new content and they would be listening/interacting with the community to improve gtao. so far theres been one sh*tty dlc, and then they just stopped communicating. i think they are just letting the gtao dream slowly fade away. they probably see it as a money hole so theyre done investing in it.

 

Well if you're dealing with the amount of glitchtards they've had to deal with, it's not suprising things have been stalled..

 

It's hopeful though that the hardline and mass banning that seems to be taking place has finally come about.. So that may well finally spur them to release more content.

 

Put yourself in their shoes for a minute.. Do you want to add content or launch some DLC only to find youtube videos title "BILLIONS AFTER DLC CONTENT DOWNLOAD!" the day after it's released?

 

Go figure.

 

rockstars not dumb. if they cared about the future of gtao they would atleast let everyone know what there working on. even if its just fixing glitches. leaving people in the dark for months isnt good for gtaos future and they know this