Is there actually anything FUN to do in GTA V? (For those that have pl

[shattered-minds]

 

Like you, I've also been playing since the original on PC. One of the biggest draws to the game is the sandbox nature of it. Most of the fun to be had is during freeroam doing whatever you want. If you struggle to think outside the box and rely on instructions of "go here, do this" in order to have fun, then I really feel sorry for you and you're kinda missing the point of the whole sandbox genre.

Yes, the structured side missions/activities in this game aren't perhaps quite as plentiful (quality is subjective) as past instalments, but there's a plethora of things to do outside the confines of these structured tasks.

It's easy to come on here and dismiss what other people find fun, making out its childish whist stroking your own ego and complimenting your oh so brilliant intellect. But it's also easy to dismiss anything to do with any GTA

"you like blowing stuff up? Wow, try growing up. You may as well just smash up lego blocks"

"you miss going to the gym to get CJ ripped? So you're going out of your way to play with a ripped black dude? I wonder what that says about you..."

"Pfft, RC cars and planes? How old are you, 12?"

"You miss that you could drive the train? Ha, nerd"

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture.

 

Funny guy, where did I say I miss driving trains? Where did I say I wanted to play with RC anything? And then it comes down to you insinuating I'm gay becuase I said I would prefer being able to change my characters appearance over pressing left, up, right, triangle while I watch a grown man do yoga, but apparantly I'm the gay wierd guy that can't use his imagination? Think again. Anyway I'm glad you're having fun "blowing stuff up" and driving cars and stuff like that, I guess my lack of imagination is the reason game sucks ass, it's all my fault.

 

At least you know you'll never be dissapointed with GTA or any other sandbox game for that matter, I bet whenever you close your eyes you enter imagination land where all the unicorns live on magical rainbows, you're so awesomezes, yay imagination, funz....

Where did I say say that you wanted to do any of those things? If you are as intelligent as you would like to believe, you would have grasped the simple idea that I was giving examples of how easy it is to shoot down anyone's idea of fun within GTA.

 

Rather than trying to act all high and mighty, trying to make fun of anyone who suggests any idea of having fun outside of structured missions, why not tell us what side activities you want? Im sure they are brilliant ideas and not at all open to ridicule...

Edited February 2, 2014 by shattered-minds

[Osho]

The reason is simply because it's not 100% of the game released.

Who knows about the future updates, whether it'll significantly change Single-Player or not?

I'm not disappointed but quite frankly have stopped playing for reasons mentioned already in the thread.

I'm playing VC with mods, when time allows, as the game feels so much fun even today.

But, the main reason behind not playing V, essentially being PC Gamer difficult to invest more time on Console with all other downsides, namely, aim with controllers, frame drops, etc.

[Ixnay]

I understand the "Use your imagination" approach; after all, the design allows you to run around and do whatever you want (within the game's parameters) - but that doesn't really address the issues of wanting a good game to play.

 

It's kinda like if you and your friends all got golf clubs for Christmas, but nobody wants to play golf. "Who cares about golf? We can pretend these are swords! Or guns! Or make stilts out of them!"

 

When it comes to the more recent GTA games, I tend to play the game first, and then screw around afterwards. My problem, personally, is that I find V so dull that I'm just not interested in wandering around aimlessly trying to create my own fun. Perhaps it's just my own playing style. If I jump off a bridge once, I don't need to do it over and over shouting "Whee!"

[Algonquin Assassin]

Despite my criticisms of GTA V which mostly concern things I personally feel could've been done better I can't say I've ever been "bored" of it. Infact I think the game has tons of replay value if you accept it for what it is.

 

I still play GTA IV regularly which according to most of this forum is a boring piece of sh*t so if I can still get enjoyment playing it I don't have any issue with GTA V keeping me busy.

 

The most fun I've had with GTA V is stepping away from R*'s structured activities and letting my creative mind take over . Of course everyones' interpretation of "fun" is different so what works for someone may not work for someone else.

[Polish_Trucker]

At least there's more fun in GTA V than GTA IV

 

EDIT: Oh sh*t

 

Edited February 2, 2014 by Polish_Trucker

[BLOOD]

I've had V since launch, and one thing that has kept me interested in playing the game, is not playing it every day. Try it sometimes.

Exactly,that why i am always on this forums or watching Youtube cus if i dont play GTA and there isnt nothing else to do,then i would play GTA non-stop.I hope you get me.

[Captain Arthur]

At least there's more fun in GTA V than GTA IV

 

EDIT: Oh sh*t

 

Prepare to get yer ass whopped by the biggest fanboy on Earth. Herherher.

 

 

[Algonquin Assassin]

 

 

It has a good replay value, a lot of good replay value. You're just seeing the game superficially, a freaking lot.

 

People still play games like IV because they do whatever the hell they want, not because a f*ckign missions tells them what to f*cking do or having to annoyingly go to a restaurant and having to eat otherwise during a mission their character would starve and die for the sake of it.

 

No it does not. GTA IV with its superior physics and more alive enviroment has. GTA V is just a bore, haven't even touched the game this year.

 

Gta IV? Superior physics? This is a joke right? A joke? It isn't? No? Yeah, it is a joke.

 

Yesterday, I decided to replay IV again just to see what these "Superior Physics" are about and guess what? I found none.

 

The driving in that game is horrendous. Whenever I try to turn, the car spins all over the place. I don't know how I mastered it before V released. I try the brakes, the car still accelerates and hits the damn object in front of me. Like what the fu*k.

 

Alive? Really?

 

All the peds in IV do nothing other than talk on the phone or just walk. I find nothing alive in LC, to be honest.

It's not that the physics are horrendous you're just used to those in GTA V.

 

I've been playing GTA IV on and off since I got GTA V and I can still drive as good as I did before GTA V was a figment of the imagination.

 

Honestly I prefer racing in GTA IV more anyway.

[Captain Arthur]

It's not that the physics are horrendous you're just used to those in GTA V. I've been playing GTA IV on and off since I got GTA V and I can still drive as good as I did before GTA V was a figment of the imagination.

Honestly I prefer racing in GTA IV more anyway.

It looks like I did instead.

 

Anyway, maybe that's my problem, I dunno. I'll still play IV more nowadays since I wanna replay the missions again.

[Detective Phelps]

Honestly I prefer racing in GTA IV more anyway.

Yeah, I also enjoyed the boat-like physics.

Crashing into every corner during a race was really fun.

 

In V, we have better control over our cars than in IV.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Los Santos Police Department

[Algonquin Assassin]

Well if you've been playing GTA V fairly hardcore the last few months of course going back to GTA IV is going to make things feel a bit weird.

 

Actually I've been playing GTA IV and GTA V back and forth for the last month and the only things I miss from GTA V when playing GTA IV is it having better graphics and movements being generally smoother, but we're talking about. 5 years difference between the two so GTA IV can't really help it not being as advanced technically.

[Captain Arthur]

Well if you've been playing GTA V fairly hardcore the last few months of course going back to GTA IV is going to make things feel a bit weird.

 

Actually I've been playing GTA IV and GTA V back and forth for the last month and the only things I miss from GTA V when playing GTA IV is it having better graphics and movements being generally smoother, but we're talking about. 5 years difference between the two so GTA IV can't really help it not being as advanced technically.

Actually, I haven't been playing V hardcore, it's been a month since I last played it.

[Algonquin Assassin]

 

 

 

Honestly I prefer racing in GTA IV more anyway.

 

Yeah, I also enjoyed the boat-like physics.

Crashing into every corner during a race was really fun.

 

In V, we have better control over our cars than in IV.

 

Lol.

 

Making corners in GTA IV isn't rocket science. If you consistently keep crashing it's because you're overdriving.

[Captain Arthur]

Lol.

Making corners in GTA IV isn't rocket science. If you consistently keep crashing it's because you're overdriving.

It is for me! Fu*king handbrake doesn't do its damn job. Gonna fu*king kill it.

[Algonquin Assassin]

The thing I find with driving in GTA IV compared to GTA V is in GTA V it's mindlessly planting the accelerator with minimal braking.

 

GTA IV is much more sophisticated that you have to pick a braking point long before making a turn and adjusting the vehicle's weight according to if it starts to understeer or oversteer. GTA V is nothing like that. I'd say it's more dumbed down and casual friendly.

 

However we have an official driving thread for that sort of discussion so my apologies for taking this slightly off topic.

[Staten]

 

 

i fell like the game is boring too... the thing is, it just feels like an "empty" game.

That's how I felt about San Andreas: for all the extra features and large map it had, there was still something missing that had been there in Vice City. As for GTA V, I think it's a brilliant game.

joke post? Sa had tons of things to do, can't say the same for this game unless you like the most useless feature in the game yoga

 

Not a joke post. SA had something missing. When the story ended, I had no interest in continuing to play (i.e. finishing the side missions). With Vice City, IV and V, I completed the story and completed the game 100%. With SA, there was something missing that made me not want to stay in the world, something that was present in VC,LC and LS.

[PkUnzipper]

The reason I titled this thread for vets specifically is becuase it seems people that didn't play the orginals seem to think it's really revoulutionary and amazing that you can drive around a fictional city shooting at the cops and flying jet planes, they think that's really "funz" and "awesomez", but for someone who has been paying GTA from the very begining even though I'm only 21, this game bores me to death, It's so bad I hadn't played it for a month until today and now it bores me even more, I've tried time and time again to enjoy it but I just can't, there's literally nothing fun to do, I feel like R* wasted 4 years making this game, it seems as though graphics aside they haven't made any real progress since SA it just keeps on regressing and it's a shame because GTA used to be my favorite gaming franchise but now it just seems like its all about yoga, darts, driving cabs and taking pictures of celebrities etc.. so basically what I wanna know is am I the only GTA vet on here that feels this way?

 

Wow OP you're only 21. Now I feel extremely old

 

But it's great that you've played the older legacy titles. So you truly understand just how far off center R* went with the SP version of GTA. GTAO is a totally different creature as are all multi player games. But IMO their masterpiece and legacy to the GTA franchise should have been SP. This should have exceeded SA, GTA III and GTA IV and VC in every single way in terms of superior game play, game mechanics besides the beautiful graphics.

 

But all we got in SP was an incredibly realistic and immerse world----some 95% of which you are mostly limited to admiring the view. Playing GTA V SP was like meeting an incredibly beautiful woman. You play your cards right and find yourself too mesmerized by her superficial beauty to care much about her real personality. But you are content in getting to know her better, until you reach the point where you find yourself at that final climatic moment of hot coffee.

 

Then you take off her clothes---only to discover there is nothing there but air. R* truly dropped the ball on the way they decided to use SP as an expensive $60 tutorial and license key for GTAO IMO.

 

So unfortunately for me, GTA V has been painfully anti-climatic. SA (followed by GTA IV, VC and GTA III) will go down as the top 4 best titles R* has ever produced in this franchise. I doubt if we'll ever see the scope and likes of game play mechanics we saw in SA anytime in the future. Especially because of the new direction R* appears to be trending to online games. And most likely will try to monetize GTA 6 and future GTA titles, by relying on mircro-transactions the way it's attempting to do now in GTAO.

 

R* unless you plan on making a superior SP gaming experience in GTA 6 to make up for the fiasco that GTA V turned out to be, then shame on you. What a sorry way to kill off one of the best--if not the most superior--SP action titles of all time in the gaming industry.

Edited February 2, 2014 by PkUnzipper

[BLOOD]

Am i the Only one who realised Chinatown Wars didnt have Multiplayer and it was universally acclaimed maybe that would be a great lesson for future GTAs.I love GTA 5 to bits but i think GTAO was a mess.

[mariana_dm1989]

There's fun stuff to do, but not that much

[Immigration]

Mind=Blown @ how people defend this pos game. I'm starting to think these "fanboys" are the devs from R* srs.

[Geralt of Rivia]

Mind=Blown @ how people defend this pos game. I'm starting to think these "fanboys" are the devs from R* srs.

And I'm starting to think that the people who hate on the game, but still keep coming back to the forum, are people whose lives are really sad srs.

[shattered-minds]

Mind=Blown @ how people defend this pos game. I'm starting to think these "fanboys" are the devs from R* srs.

 

Your mind is blown at the realisation that people have different opinions to you?

[PkUnzipper]

 

 

 

but now it just seems like its all about yoga, darts, driving cabs and taking pictures of celebrities etc..

That's all this GTA is to you? Are your eyes closed?

 

like I said in my original post I feel since 2004 when SA came out on the PS2, graphics aside there hasn't been any progress whatsoever

No progress whatsoever since 2004?

 

<snip>

 

...No.

 

You can feel however you like. But I'm gonna keep calling it a stupid feeling.

 

I mean, no progress!? Is going from no ragdoll to ragdoll (Just one example) not progress to you?

 

 

You're stuck in the weeds. You're thinking tactically and not strategically. Capitalist Communist is inferring to the strategic scope of the game mechanics. Besides the scripted story missions in SA there were so many fun and NON mission sand box activities to do once finishing the game. And you needed to do a sh*tLOAD of stuff before you achieved mission complete. Stuff like:

 

Sub missions: vigilante, stealth, ambulance. Or asset acquisition missions like Courier to acquire grocery stores to make money. Or RPG styled asset acquisition missions like the trucker missions, or driving trains etc.

 

asset missions these were FUN, RPG style missions like trucker, valet and quarry. If you beat them, you got another nice way of making income. In V, the asset missions are restricted to whatever protag you're playing atm. As to why both Trevor and Franklin have multi millions at the end of SP---yet are completely unable to by any of the movie theaters---will always be a mystery to me. Or Trevor's complete inability to take over Smoke on the Water since he's a drug running kingpin. etc. etc.

 

hidden challenges Mt. Chilliad, Beat the Cock (wouldn't get this unless you really listened to the radio or explored the beach areas), Hot Coffee, BMX, NRG, Courier missions etc. You would NEVER see or be rewarded with most of these unless you fully explored the map (or cheated by visiting forums like this one with mission walkthroughs etc).

 

stadium missions - Dirt track, 8 track, bloodring/vehicle DMs, grand prix style races which unlocked special vehicles in the game. The stadium in V just sits there completely empty and useless.

 

RPG element: freedom to be a gangsta/couch potato etc -- Something GTA V has epically failed on to date. You can do yoga to increase strength stat. But you can't eat anything to get fat? Drinking health juice does absolutely nothing for health or combat stats. Participating in the triathalon mini game improves combat stats. But these don't decay once maxed out. So there is no challenge or motivation in redoing them. Especially since they don't give any monetary payouts.

 

The SA main protag was constantly able to eat and change his body fat/muscle/shape by life style. It was a constant challenge doing this, because it depended on which gf he was dating at the time. Or what part of the story line he had reached (like unlocking the SF or LV areas). Or perhaps you had beat the game, but were still trying to get 100% complete.

 

So there was a REAL reason for making CJ eat and work out. Because he couldn't get the bonus from dating Barbara unless he scored hot coffee with her first. But that required him to go from looking like a mini Arnold Schwartznegger to Fat Albert. Which made doing any combat related missions that much harder, since he was out of shape. So his strength, stamina, lung capacity etc were all directly affected as a result. No such challenge exists in GTA V to date.

 

street races----non existent in GTA V SP unless you're playing Franklin. Why is this?

 

gym fighting---will you look at all that great gym equipment lying around at muscle beach? Franklin really wanted to use all that gym equipment at the beach. So he could get ripped and smack the sh*t out of those bull shark juiced body builder NPCs who were talking smack to him the other day. But it was raining really hard that day. So he called up a cab. But after getting in the cab, he suddenly remembered why this wasn't going to be possible---no building interiors for this particular building existed....

 

gun range--about the only thing that got translated over to GTA V right with no fundamental changes to how the mini game plays.

 

Driving schools - don't get me started on the complete f*cking lack of a specific school in GTA V, even though a CONSIDERABLE part of the map is underwater.

 

multiple safe house ownership -- what the f*ck is up with all those for sale/foreclosed signs in SP? Why the f*ck can't your protag char invest in the community? Why can't they buy up these distressed properties to either live in (or resell them?).

 

Collectible mini games these were ALL tied into improving your char's combat stats or sex appeal (e.g. oysters for improving CJ's sex appeal at the dating/hot coffee mini games). IMO the collectible mini games in V are not as integrated in improving your char's combat stats as in SA. Especially since the mini games are limited to which protags you're currently playing. Hunting/bounty hunting/air & ground drug trafficking limited to Trevor only. Races & letter collectibles limited to Franklin only. Epsilon and submarine piece collectibles limited only to Micheal etc. etc.

 

If GTA V was on par with its SA predecessor, then ALL of the collectible mini games and unscripted non mission/free roam activities would have been unlocked and open to ANY of the protags after beating the storyline. So you could take Micheal hunting on weekends (especially since shooting is his specialty). Or make Franklin play tennis (he can golf but not play tennis???). Or allow all 3 protags access to the Cannibal cult option whenever they pick up hitch hikers etc. etc. The devs restricted and eliminated way too many sandbox features that existed back in SA IMO.

 

pure sandbox activities -

 

* Gambling in a WORKING casino which had an INTERIOR where you could actually MAKE LOTS OF MONEY based on your luck and number horse shoes collected.

 

* Yay courier hijacking mission events, until you reached a certain part of the main storyline.

 

* Dating mini issues--having to maintain high score with your dates for 100% complete. Just having to avoid being stalked and harassed by CJ's gfs--Denise in particular--while CJ was on a date with another gf was a big mini challenge in itself. lol!

 

* Ongoing gang warfare/gang turf battles which lasted after beating the game. Territories would randomly flare up and the AI gangs would attempt to take over your area. So you'd have to constantly keep defending them while doing other sandbox activities/sub missions. Or you could start your own gang war by picking fights with ballas, other gangs, and cops all around the map. etc.

 

Capitialist Communist basically nailed all of this in his post. GTA V---despite all of it's beautiful/immersive graphics---is NO WHERE CLOSE to where SA was from the strategic perspective of game mechanics and game play. That includes VC and GTA III.

Edited February 2, 2014 by PkUnzipper

[[µT]]

Sir, I respect your opinion in everyway but embrace yourself. There is actually a lot of fun you can have in GTA V, and going to the gym in my agenda ins't something fun as all you do is button mash.

 

You could go to the gym, learn new fighting styles, do courier jobs, burglarize homes, partake in gang wars (which can last forever if you choose to just defend your territories rather than just take all of them), spray over graffiti tags, do track betting, go to the casino and if you get in debt you get a hit on you, meet new girlfriends and do activities with them, recruit gang members (have fun with Lamar n GTA V that doesn't even carry a pistol and trails 90 yards behind you), participate in lowrider competitions, bloodring demolition derbies and races, go to the strip club, vigilante, firefighter and ambulance missions.. I mean the list goes on and on and on, and this was in 2004! After you complete all of the activities in this game, most of which are non-repeatable, the game is a big empty world that does nothing more than look good.

 

GTA V does have it's upsides, the graphics are amazing, the AI is better in some ways (although pretty stupid in some situations.. lol call the cops on me for walking by you and saying hi, or how about the gang members that are stiff as statues and rarely ever move, not to mention rival gangs don't even attack each other rofl and the police that are probably under David Blaine's apprenticeship with how f*cking magically they know you've committed a crime)

[killahmatic]

it seems people that didn't play the orginals seem to think it's really revoulutionary and amazing that you can drive around a fictional city shooting at the cops and flying jet planes, they think that's really "funz" and "awesomez", but for someone who has been paying GTA from the very begining even though I'm only 21, this game bores me to death, It's so bad I hadn't played it for a month

 

I've played since III, which I bought in '02, although I also played II for a short time, and have played every game since, other than IV's DLC.

I'm not sure why you don't like V, but the fact of the matter is, it is fun, and its not just people new to the series that think it is. In my opinion, its the best game they've created for this series so far. What I used to imagine games like VC and SA to be, V actually is.

 

Now, its not a perfect game by any means, but none of them are. You say there hasn't been any progress since SA, but what do you mean? From SA to V, there have been a ton of new features, weapons, and vehicles. Obviously the map is much larger and way more detailed, too.

Edited February 2, 2014 by killahmatic

[Immigration]

 

Mind=Blown @ how people defend this pos game. I'm starting to think these "fanboys" are the devs from R* srs.

And I'm starting to think that the people who hate on the game, but still keep coming back to the forum, are people whose lives are really sad srs.

 

U wot m8? I rarely log on here lol, i just come back from time to time to see if heist or anything new is available yet. What sad is how some people take such offense to any negative feedback someone gives GTA V.

 

Mind=Blown @ how people defend this pos game. I'm starting to think these "fanboys" are the devs from R* srs.

 

Your mind is blown at the realisation that people have different opinions to you?

 

Yes.

[Officer Ronson]

I'll just start quoting with red just like the MosterFocker does, oh and most of what you listed is pretty much going from point A to B just with a different vehicle.

[mastershake616]

 

Like you, I've also been playing since the original on PC. One of the biggest draws to the game is the sandbox nature of it. Most of the fun to be had is during freeroam doing whatever you want. If you struggle to think outside the box and rely on instructions of "go here, do this" in order to have fun, then I really feel sorry for you and you're kinda missing the point of the whole sandbox genre.

 

Yes, the structured side missions/activities in this game aren't perhaps quite as plentiful (quality is subjective) as past instalments, but there's a plethora of things to do outside the confines of these structured tasks.

 

It's easy to come on here and dismiss what other people find fun, making out its childish whist stroking your own ego and complimenting your oh so brilliant intellect. But it's also easy to dismiss anything to do with any GTA

 

"you like blowing stuff up? Wow, try growing up. You may as well just smash up lego blocks"

 

"you miss going to the gym to get CJ ripped? So you're going out of your way to play with a ripped black dude? I wonder what that says about you..."

 

"Pfft, RC cars and planes? How old are you, 12?"

 

"You miss that you could drive the train? Ha, nerd"

 

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture.

Funny guy, where did I say I miss driving trains? Where did I say I wanted to play with RC anything? And then it comes down to you insinuating I'm gay becuase I said I would prefer being able to change my characters appearance over pressing left, up, right, triangle while I watch a grown man do yoga, but apparantly I'm the gay wierd guy that can't use his imagination? Think again. Anyway I'm glad you're having fun "blowing stuff up" and driving cars and stuff like that, I guess my lack of imagination is the reason game sucks ass, it's all my fault.

 

At least you know you'll never be dissapointed with GTA or any other sandbox game for that matter, I bet whenever you close your eyes you enter imagination land where all the unicorns live on magical rainbows, you're so awesomezes, yay imagination, funz....

 

 

Insecurity encapsulated.

[PkUnzipper]

Superior pshysics? You people seem very delusional if you think IV's are better, I am really feeling pitty to the people at the Driving Debate as its almost the same person every single post. I don't know how exaggerated leaning on a Crown Victoria while making a turn at regular speedis superior or realistic nor as how I could a limo at a low speed at the side and it would bounce off like if it had hydraulics.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes since "superior physics" is not a term that can be applied to GTA V.

 

I can do a stunt jump by driving a heavy Sandking off a ramp on a 8 story garage roof, hyper space into the air, then miss my target land zone on the other building by barely a foot. The sand king predictably crash lands on the street pavement below--100% intact. Despite all the car and body damage acquired after this horrific crash, my protag (or GTAO char) is still alive and kicking?

 

My GTAO char takes his Karin driving off road in the hills and mountains of Blaine county. He can drive directly up vertical face cliffs without ever rolling backwards. Or falling down the mountain.....

 

My GTAO char is in a high speed, 5 star level chase after picking up his weekly check from robbing a convenience store. He slams his tiny Weebly head on into an oncoming 18 wheeler cab when he fails to make a sharp corner. Instead of flying out of the windshield (which would have been the case in GTA IV) with death dramatically rag dolling his pixelated @$$ in slow motion across the screen--he can actually EXIT vehicle under his own steam AND WALK AWAY with his health completely intact???

 

I don't know what physics engine you're playing. But it seems you've missed the fact you're insured against all types of roll overs for any car you drive in GTA V. Or the fact any car you drive is firmly rooted to the ground by an invisible magnet--regardless of what terrain you happen to be driving on. Because should any car you drive accidentally flip over, your vehicle has the divine, innate ability to magically right itself. Even if it happens to be not moving at the time, flat on it's roof, and on a perfectly level surface.

[Geralt of Rivia]

 

 

 

 

but now it just seems like its all about yoga, darts, driving cabs and taking pictures of celebrities etc..

That's all this GTA is to you? Are your eyes closed?

 

like I said in my original post I feel since 2004 when SA came out on the PS2, graphics aside there hasn't been any progress whatsoever

No progress whatsoever since 2004?

 

<snip>

 

...No.

 

You can feel however you like. But I'm gonna keep calling it a stupid feeling.

 

I mean, no progress!? Is going from no ragdoll to ragdoll (Just one example) not progress to you?

 

 

-Snip-

 

Cool. But the dude was talking about everything aside from graphics. Everything.

 

So, we're both right. Let's eat some cookies! Anyone got milk?

 

Immigration: