Do you think 'non-educational games/media' can be educational?

[theadmiral]

 

 

Inspiration yes. Education yes, partly. Because it helps create your own universe later on. You do learn from writing a fanfic.

 

@Admiral: Writing is 50% a passion, 50% an employment. I know a guy who'd loved to write for a living and is a great writer here but he likes to keep it as a passion.

@Raavi: You misunderstood what I said.

 

Ace, you are fundamentally confused. Anything (a game, nature, scenery, history, television) can /inspire/ someone to write. The education does not occur until you go do creative exercises, peer review and critique, and writing exercises yourself. And the game, or other inspirational factor, has nothing to do with that education though it may have motivated you to go engage in it.

[Frank Brown]

 

 

 

 

If a video-game story is good and it inspires you to write a story which is a fanfic based on that video game, it is education. Writing is education, especially if it will help you create your own universe and make you write your own stories better later on.

 

That is rubbish. By that logic, looking out my window and watching the snow fall is educational because it could inspire me to write a story about snowy days at home.

 

 

'Rubbish' yeah. Because your logic makes no sense at all. Nearly all writers here start out by writing GTA Fanfiction for the reason I stated above. Now they are one of the best writers on the forum so your logic is flawed.

 

That's not educational, though. You're confusing education (learning skills/gaining knowledge) with inspiration. You're inspired to write other things because you wrote GTA Fan-fiction. You gained an education when your friends or random people critiqued your writing.

 

See the difference?

 

 

Inspiration yes. Education yes, partly. Because it helps create your own universe later on. You do learn from writing a fanfic.

 

@Admiral: Writing is 50% a passion, 50% an employment. I know a guy who'd loved to write for a living and is a great writer here but he likes to keep it as a passion.

@Raavi: You misunderstood what I said.

 

 

 

 

Because it helps create your own universe later on.

 

That is inspiration. Not education.

 

something that makes someone want to do something or that gives someone an idea about what to do or create : a force or influence that inspires someone - Merriam Webster Dictionary

 

 

 

You do learn from writing a fanfic.

If you continued to write fanfiction without any outside interference (see: criticism or previous education in writing) you would not learn. You would continue to write the same way that you have been.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Vlynor

[Dr. John]

 

 

Every "writer" on the internet is "Looking to publish their work". Show me one who is gainfully employed as a result of it.

If they were employed, they won't be slacking here.

 

 

I don't think that's true. Many of these members are employed, some in high end jobs, and they still visit this forum frequently. Some are moderators.

 

Writers are surely not some people with time in their hands. True writers devote their time in imagining a different world for their new material. There are people who work here but their jobs give them some time to browse this place. I didn't say that "all" people with work don't have time.

[watchclock]

Disclaimer: I did not search for a similar thread now.

Now I am become troll, destroyer of forums.*

But if there has been one, it's long gone now and I would be accused of necrobumping...

 

So do I really need to do that every time I make a thread? I do? Okay.

Anyways... I didn't put this in "Gaming" section because even though the major focus is on games, other stuff like movies are in this subject too. Also this doesn't really focus on games themselves but rather their effects on people, so you can freely leave if you were going to say "but ur talking about games bruh, u no respect the rules lol get outta here".

 

Okay, let's begin shall we. Do you think games/movies/series that are considered non-educative (such as games like GTA, Battlefield... or movies such as James Bond or other action movies... series like Lost, Prison Break or The Walking Dead) can be educative too?

 

I do think they can indeed be, and good at it too, even if it isn't their main purpose. For example, everyone here knows my splendid English, right? Well I guess it is because I have played multiple 15-18+ games and watched a lot of random movies/TV-series (namely Lost) when I was young... ish. Like 6+. As far as I know, no one else I know in real life has played/watched that much English stuff - subtitled to Finnish of course - as a child, resulting in me being a damn genius (for a non-native English speaker) in English language, lol.

 

Either way, I guess that if I had watched more series/movies with e.g. some sort of math being used in the plot when I was young, I would have been better at it too. You know, I'd be rewriting the Theory of Relativity by now.

 

Though, the possible side effects can occur too... making the child all crazy and making him run over pedestrians if he played too much GTA... but that isn't the main point here. But if you played with the kid, you could e.g. teach the chap about traffic rules safely in GTA or something. If you have American traffic rules in your country, that is.

 

So, how about you? Do you believe that even violent or for other reasons age-limited games or other media can be used as a tool of education? If so, why? If not, why not? I need reasoning, people.

 

*Bonus points for you if you know that quote. Although it is modified from it's original form to serve my purpose better.

I learned Boolean calculus, formal logic, scripting, from the mission editor in a game called Arma 2 just because I wanted to have an ai mortar team disassemble their mortar, displace, reassemble and fire on dynamic targets.

 

So, yes.

[Frank Brown]

 

 

 

Every "writer" on the internet is "Looking to publish their work". Show me one who is gainfully employed as a result of it.

If they were employed, they won't be slacking here.

 

 

I don't think that's true. Many of these members are employed, some in high end jobs, and they still visit this forum frequently. Some are moderators.

 

Writers are surely not some people with time in their hands. True writers devote their time in imagining a different world for their new material. There are people who work here but their jobs give them some time to browse this place. I didn't say that "all" people with work don't have time.

 

 

I don't believe you can honestly say a writer would have less time on their hands than say, a security analyst or a business owner, now, could you?

[Vercetti42]

 

 

 

 

 

If a video-game story is good and it inspires you to write a story which is a fanfic based on that video game, it is education. Writing is education, especially if it will help you create your own universe and make you write your own stories better later on.

 

That is rubbish. By that logic, looking out my window and watching the snow fall is educational because it could inspire me to write a story about snowy days at home.

 

 

'Rubbish' yeah. Because your logic makes no sense at all. Nearly all writers here start out by writing GTA Fanfiction for the reason I stated above. Now they are one of the best writers on the forum so your logic is flawed.

 

That's not educational, though. You're confusing education (learning skills/gaining knowledge) with inspiration. You're inspired to write other things because you wrote GTA Fan-fiction. You gained an education when your friends or random people critiqued your writing.

 

See the difference?

 

 

Inspiration yes. Education yes, partly. Because it helps create your own universe later on. You do learn from writing a fanfic.

 

@Admiral: Writing is 50% a passion, 50% an employment. I know a guy who'd loved to write for a living and is a great writer here but he likes to keep it as a passion.

@Raavi: You misunderstood what I said.

 

 

 

 

Because it helps create your own universe later on.

 

That is inspiration. Not education.

 

something that makes someone want to do something or that gives someone an idea about what to do or create : a force or influence that inspires someone - Merriam Webster Dictionary

 

 

 

You do learn from writing a fanfic.

If you continued to write fanfiction without any outside interference (see: criticism or previous education in writing) you would not learn. You would continue to write the same way that you have been.

 

 

Yes. Criticism is important indeed. But writing has helped me create my own characters. At first I used another setting but now I am able to create my own setting, so games are of some use in a way.

Edited January 21, 2014 by AceKingston

[Frank Brown]

-snip-

 

 

That's still inspiration. Unless you were taught how to create the characters, add background story and depth, etc.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Vlynor

[theadmiral]

 

 

Yes. Criticism is important indeed. But writing has helped me create my own characters. At first I used another setting but now I am able to create my own setting, so games are of some use in a way.

 

Now you are getting it. These games are of some use in that you , AceKingston, find inspiration from them. But they did not educate you.

[Dr. John]

I don't believe you can honestly say a writer would have less time on their hands than say, a security analyst or a business owner, now, could you?

People with high class jobs on the first place won't browse internet forums every now and then. They might come here if they have some holiday from work or real interest in the forum discussions. Writers are people who NEED to concentrate on their works. They CAN'T afford to roam around in internet forums for leisure. They have some deadlines by which they must produce their works; and that also a good quality one.

 

You are confusing Writers with all employed people here. They are two different people living in TWO different worlds.

[Raavi]

By all means enlighten me then. It is obvious how one can learn conceptualization, syntax, punctuation etc. through reading. But through gaming? I fail to see how that is going to help you grow as a writer.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Raavi

[Vercetti42]

 

-snip-

That's still inspiration. Unless you were taught how to create the characters, add background story and depth, etc.

 

Hmm I see. But that is still useful for me in way no denying that.

 

Let's move the topic about away from GTA and AC, how about:

 

Fallout

Flight Simulator X - Which is used by pilots in real-life.

 

@Raavi: Again it can. It helps you create your own universe.

Edited January 21, 2014 by AceKingston

[theadmiral]

 

I don't believe you can honestly say a writer would have less time on their hands than say, a security analyst or a business owner, now, could you?

People with high class jobs on the first place won't browse internet forums every now and then. They might come here if they have some holiday from work or real interest in the forum discussions.

 

I think you are really grossly misunderstanding how many people work sitting in front of three monitors with one screen dedicated to screwing around while the other two are dedicated to repetitive work.

[Frank Brown]

 

I don't believe you can honestly say a writer would have less time on their hands than say, a security analyst or a business owner, now, could you?

People with high class jobs on the first place won't browse internet forums every now and then. They might come here if they have some holiday from work or real interest in the forum discussions. Writers are people who NEED to concentrate on their works. They CAN'T afford to roam around in internet forums for leisure. They have some deadlines by which they must produce their works; and that also a good quality one.

 

You are confusing Writers with all employed people here. They are two different people living in TWO different worlds.

 

 

Business owners and security analysts (there are more examples, but these were my previous ones) are two careers which require numerous amounts of time and dedication. Both have deadlines and both probably work off the clock to meet those deadlines. The worlds really aren't as different as you're trying to make them out to be.

[Dr. John]

 

 

I don't believe you can honestly say a writer would have less time on their hands than say, a security analyst or a business owner, now, could you?

People with high class jobs on the first place won't browse internet forums every now and then. They might come here if they have some holiday from work or real interest in the forum discussions. Writers are people who NEED to concentrate on their works. They CAN'T afford to roam around in internet forums for leisure. They have some deadlines by which they must produce their works; and that also a good quality one.

 

You are confusing Writers with all employed people here. They are two different people living in TWO different worlds.

 

 

Business owners and security analysts (there are more examples, but these were my previous ones) are two careers which require numerous amounts of time and dedication. Both have deadlines and both probably work off the clock to meet those deadlines. The worlds really aren't as different as you're trying to make them out to be.

 

Writers are also busy people, mate. They don't have time to talk with people. They isolate themselves in a room and keep 1000 pages for rough itself. You can't just simply say that writers have free time in going in forums.

 

Has Dan Houser ever come to a forum? I don't think so. His occupations is on the hard line.

 

 

 

I don't believe you can honestly say a writer would have less time on their hands than say, a security analyst or a business owner, now, could you?

People with high class jobs on the first place won't browse internet forums every now and then. They might come here if they have some holiday from work or real interest in the forum discussions.

 

I think you are really grossly misunderstanding how many people work sitting in front of three monitors with one screen dedicated to screwing around while the other two are dedicated to repetitive work.

 

Yes, and those people have a very bad dedication to their work. Real writers (or as a matter of fact, anybody working in any field) don't pretent to be "professional". They are the people who are honest and hard working.

 

You want some real writers writhing a masterpiece? Then go to some other forum. This place has mostly the crowd addicted to games.

 

Games and movies likewise are for entertainment. Entertainment is a good teacher to many people who find pile of workds boring.

[Raavi]

Hmm I see. But that is still useful for me in way no denying that.

Let's move the topic about away from GTA and AC, how about:

 

Fallout

Flight Simulator X - Which is used by pilots in real-life.

 

@Raavi: Again it can. It helps you create your own universe.

 

 

But so do books, and arguably they do so even better as game writing is catered to well, video games.

 

As for flight simulator games, they have both educational and recreational usage. That's not to say if I fire up X-Plane I learn anything though. For those "games" and most simulators in general it completely depends on the environment in which they are used.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Raavi

[theadmiral]

I definitely agree that Flight Simulators can be educational, particularly when combined with the detailed literature and reference material included that is often sourced from proper authorities. I don't really consider a proper flight simulator to be a game, though.

 

You won't be flying a plane after just using simulators, though. There is a reason classroom study , tests, and hours with a real pilot are required.

Edited January 21, 2014 by theadmiral

[Vercetti42]

 

Hmm I see. But that is still useful for me in way no denying that.

 

Let's move the topic about away from GTA and AC, how about:

 

Fallout

Flight Simulator X - Which is used by pilots in real-life.

 

@Raavi: Again it can. It helps you create your own universe.

But so do books, and arguably they do so even better as game writing is catered to well, video games.

 

As for flight simulator games, they have both educational and recreational usage. That's not to say if I fire up X-Plane I learn anything though. For those "games" and most simulators in general it completely depends on the environment in which they are used.

 

Of course books do. I was just saying Fanfics do help a bit but yes admittedly not as the same amount as books do.

 

And I have played FSX and you can atleast get a basic idea of starting up a plane and stuff. If I go into a plane I know how to at least start it.

 

But i must say, I am really enjoying this discussion.

Edited January 21, 2014 by AceKingston

[Frank Brown]

-snip-

 

What? Pretend to be professional?

 

I'm telling you there are business owners and at least one security analyst on this forum. There are computer technicians and other professionals here, too. Their job is professional. And some of them probably require more dedication than writing a story about dragons and knights.

 

Dan Houser visitng the forums is irrelevant. He didn't visit them before, to my knowledge, why would he now? I'm talking about people who actually have a dedicated career that still have time to come here.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Vlynor

[theadmiral]

 

 

And I have played FSX and you can atleast get a basic idea of starting up a plane and stuff. If I go into a plane I know how to at least start it.

 

 

 

I agree, FSX has pretty much several textbooks worth of factual aviation knowledge included and you can learn a lot from it, particularly about flight plans and the various other aviation concepts.

 

Most of the education comes from the reading in there, though, not from playing the actual simulator.

 

@Dr. John - LOL at you saying anyone browsing a forum while working has poor dedication and is not a hard worker. When you get a job, let's revisit that statement.

Edited January 21, 2014 by theadmiral

[Frank Brown]

 

 

 

And I have played FSX and you can atleast get a basic idea of starting up a plane and stuff. If I go into a plane I know how to at least start it.

 

 

 

I agree, FSX has pretty much several textbooks worth of factual aviation knowledge included and you can learn a lot from it, particularly about flight plans and the various other aviation concepts.

 

Most of the education comes from the reading in there, though, not from playing the actual simulator.

 

 

And it's usually only used by private pilots, not commercial. FSX doesn't count towards FAA qualifications.

[Dr. John]

 

-snip-

 

What? Pretend to be professional?

 

I'm telling you there are business owners and at least one security analyst on this forum. There are computer technicians and other professionals here, too. Their job is professional. And some of them probably require more dedication than writing a story about dragons and knights.

 

Dan Houser visitng the forums is irrelevant. He didn't visit them before, to my knowledge, why would he now? I'm talking about people who actually have a dedicated career that still have time to come here.

 

OK, I can surely say that people who are technicians are busy people. But only people with ample time get time here. They manage to do so. Writers, as far as I know, don't even want any distractions. They are different people with differnt professions. If there are writers (by profession) active in this forum, then I won't debate on this matter.

 

As for telling about Dan Houser, I just gave an example. I know it was not a good one but he is some of the good fictional writers who use the real world's condition and turn them in a hilarious satire. They are people who care about their career the most.

 

BTW, I started this writer crap just because theadmiral was asking for an "employed professional writer".

[theadmiral]

You are probably insulting about 50 percent of the adult users of this forum with comments like that. Many of us here are working 10-12 hours a day. That does not mean you are spending every single second working and have no time to click off into other things. I don't think you understand the nature of many people's work.

[Vercetti42]

 

 

 

And I have played FSX and you can atleast get a basic idea of starting up a plane and stuff. If I go into a plane I know how to at least start it.

 

 

 

I agree, FSX has pretty much several textbooks worth of factual aviation knowledge included and you can learn a lot from it, particularly about flight plans and the various other aviation concepts.

 

Most of the education comes from the reading in there, though, not from playing the actual simulator.

 

Yes but it's still education in a way I suppose.

 

And John - do you have any proof that writers don't have time to access forums? Yes they are writers, but just because they are writers does not mean that they don't have time to do other things.

 

And mate, you will probably understand this once you grow up (I don't know if I should be saying this since I am also 13) because at the moment, well we are kids who are mostly focused on school. It'll be different when we become adults.

[I cucked Alex Jones]

Anyone who thinks playing GTA is going to help you write a story that the average person won't lose interest in after the first few paragraphs is delusional. The best way to improve your writing is by reading and writing yourself. Beating a hooker to death with a baseball bat in a video game will do nothing to improve your writing at all.

[Osho]

I don't think that writers, bloggers, or people regularly dedicated in writing about gaming or the content, practically cannot be counted in the group of 'educating' themselves playing them.

 

Game reviewers who need to judge the game inside out from picking the story, writing to technical aspects of it and even revenue, marketing and all the gaming industry norms and working need to actively participate in games playing it to be qualified.

These are people who have spend maximum time understanding the growth of the games and the industry as a whole. Also, the general knowledge outside gaming contributes in making their writing more strong and acceptable to general readers.

 

 

Can games be considered 'educational' to contribute in their growth and knowledge?

- Of course.

[DeafMetal]

Think a lot of you guys aren't really understanding how broad the term "education" is. Education uses a ton of tools: books, visual stimuli, interpersonal experiments, etc. Video games are not a form of education, but they can be a tool, the same way a book or picture can be. It's the same concept as "this brick is not a house, but it is part of what makes a house."

 

Video games, whether you like it or not, have been and are being used as a tool by institutions providing formal education. In high school, for example, one of my teachers told the class that homework was to play a first-person shooter when we got home. There have been credited universities using games like Second Life, The Sims, Portal, and many others as a tool to teach something.

 

Are you likely to be an expert of something solely by playing a game? Probably not. Are you likely to be an expert on something solely by reading a textbook? Probably not. It's ALL of the tools coming together that gives you a certain amount of expertise in something, whether they be books, video games, lectures, videos, hands-on, etc.

Edited January 21, 2014 by DeafMetal

[Mr. House]

Dude, what games did you play in '90s anyways? Pac-man? We can say those games are not "educational". But, modern games ARE educational (except MMORPG games and others falling in this category).

 

You seriously make me worry that you haven't even touched any GTA game in your life.

Your comment on games in the 90s shows a severe lack of knowledge about the 90s and games. There is a huge amount of games from the 90s that could be classed as 'educational' by this poster's standards, on a relative level that makes current games look like sludge.

[Max]

 

Dude, what games did you play in '90s anyways? Pac-man? We can say those games are not "educational". But, modern games ARE educational (except MMORPG games and others falling in this category).

 

You seriously make me worry that you haven't even touched any GTA game in your life.

Your comment on games in the 90s shows a severe lack of knowledge about the 90s and games. There is a huge amount of games from the 90s that could be classed as 'educational' by this poster's standards, on a relative level that makes current games look like sludge.

 

Zoombinis was awesome.

[Frank Brown]

 

 

Dude, what games did you play in '90s anyways? Pac-man? We can say those games are not "educational". But, modern games ARE educational (except MMORPG games and others falling in this category).

 

You seriously make me worry that you haven't even touched any GTA game in your life.

Your comment on games in the 90s shows a severe lack of knowledge about the 90s and games. There is a huge amount of games from the 90s that could be classed as 'educational' by this poster's standards, on a relative level that makes current games look like sludge.

 

Zoombinis was awesome.

 

 

Zoombinis ain't got sh*t on Freddi Fish.

 

[Raavi]

No love for putt-putt?