Will They Increase Max Players

[iFight]

In gta iv for PC, I spawned over 15 NPC's with a trainer and it lagged a lot. When i minimazed the ram was very high, it almost used all of the 4gb and then the game crashed.

I guess it's a hardware problem, they can't handle more than 16. Also most of times npc's vehicles disappearing when you go near a player in gta:o.

Edited December 28, 2013 by iFight

[poklane]

In gta iv for PC, I spawned over 15 NPC's with a trainer and it lagged a lot. When i minimazed the ram was very high, it almost used all of the 4gb and then the game crashed.

 

I guess it's a hardware problem, they can't handle more than 16. Also most of times npc's vehicles disappearing when you go near a player in gta:o.

Do you have a good PC? Because for it also might be things like mods that don't work together, or just engine limitations.

[vahnx]

 

Originally GTAO was thought to have 32 players max but they cut it down to 16.

FALSE. That was just a rumor, R* always said 16.

If we get 32 or more than 16 players, it will have to be PC and/or PS4 and XB1. Also, you have to think about spreading things like police and other enemies over those 32 players. If you have 32 players, those 32 may be getting chased by cops at the same time while shooting at the same time. That would mean you have to connect 32 players too eachother, while having 32 cars, 32 weapons and hundreds of cop cars, regular NPCs in cars and pedestrians all at the same time. PS3 and Xbox360 simply wouldn't be able to handle that in such a big map. The game sometimes will already drop frames when 6 players shoot explosives at each other, let alone 32...

 

 

Sounds like more of a bandwidth issue of R*'s servers than a hardware limitation of consoles that can process gigaflops of data...

[Phyxsius-]

Probably they would LOVE to have more players online, but there is some limitation, somewhere.

[The4orTy67]

"I am [insert name here]. I can code better than the entire Rockstar staff but I have no evidence to back it up."

Edited December 28, 2013 by The4orTy67

[poklane]

 

 

Originally GTAO was thought to have 32 players max but they cut it down to 16.

FALSE. That was just a rumor, R* always said 16.

If we get 32 or more than 16 players, it will have to be PC and/or PS4 and XB1. Also, you have to think about spreading things like police and other enemies over those 32 players. If you have 32 players, those 32 may be getting chased by cops at the same time while shooting at the same time. That would mean you have to connect 32 players too eachother, while having 32 cars, 32 weapons and hundreds of cop cars, regular NPCs in cars and pedestrians all at the same time. PS3 and Xbox360 simply wouldn't be able to handle that in such a big map. The game sometimes will already drop frames when 6 players shoot explosives at each other, let alone 32...

 

 

Sounds like more of a bandwidth issue of R*'s servers than a hardware limitation of consoles that can process gigaflops of data...

 

No, it's obviously hardware limitations. By now, the hardware in the PS3 and Xbox 360 is close to being ancient.

[BBQ RIBS]

 

 

Originally GTAO was thought to have 32 players max but they cut it down to 16.

FALSE. That was just a rumor, R* always said 16.

If we get 32 or more than 16 players, it will have to be PC and/or PS4 and XB1. Also, you have to think about spreading things like police and other enemies over those 32 players. If you have 32 players, those 32 may be getting chased by cops at the same time while shooting at the same time. That would mean you have to connect 32 players too eachother, while having 32 cars, 32 weapons and hundreds of cop cars, regular NPCs in cars and pedestrians all at the same time. PS3 and Xbox360 simply wouldn't be able to handle that in such a big map. The game sometimes will already drop frames when 6 players shoot explosives at each other, let alone 32...

 

 

Sounds like more of a bandwidth issue of R*'s servers than a hardware limitation of consoles that can process gigaflops of data...

You just don't want to understand, do you?

 

You must be mental to think that 32 people can run around each with a unique combinations of props, face model, customized cars, explosives, with AI cops on their asses. On top of traffic, pedestrians, dynamic objects in the world (like fences, boxes, mailboxes, light posts, etc) on 8-7 year old hardware.

[vahnx]

 

 

 

Originally GTAO was thought to have 32 players max but they cut it down to 16.

FALSE. That was just a rumor, R* always said 16.

If we get 32 or more than 16 players, it will have to be PC and/or PS4 and XB1. Also, you have to think about spreading things like police and other enemies over those 32 players. If you have 32 players, those 32 may be getting chased by cops at the same time while shooting at the same time. That would mean you have to connect 32 players too eachother, while having 32 cars, 32 weapons and hundreds of cop cars, regular NPCs in cars and pedestrians all at the same time. PS3 and Xbox360 simply wouldn't be able to handle that in such a big map. The game sometimes will already drop frames when 6 players shoot explosives at each other, let alone 32...

 

 

Sounds like more of a bandwidth issue of R*'s servers than a hardware limitation of consoles that can process gigaflops of data...

You just don't want to understand, do you?

 

You must be mental to think that 32 people can run around each with a unique combinations of props, face model, customized cars, explosives, with AI cops on their asses. On top of traffic, pedestrians, dynamic objects in the world (like fences, boxes, mailboxes, light posts, etc) on 8-7 year old hardware.

 

 

I'm a programmer so I understand how the underlyings work. Heck a game like World of Warcraft has just as many things going on at once, variables changing, etc. and it's mostly all done server side and sent back to each player. If you truly believe the 16 player count is not an artificial limit you must have no clue what you're talking about.

Edited December 28, 2013 by vahnx

[Phyxsius-]

 

I'm a programmer so I understand how the underlings work. Heck a game like World of Warcraft has just as many things going on at once, variables changing, etc. and it's mostly all done server side and sent back to each player. If you truly believe the 16 player count is not an artificial limit you must have no clue what you're talking about.

 

The server in this case is your console, or console hardware.

 

Even with dedicated servers on consoles, you STILL can`t get too high - just look at Battlefield 4, which has dedicated servers for consoles. Does it have 64 players, or not?

[BBQ RIBS]

 

 

 

 

Originally GTAO was thought to have 32 players max but they cut it down to 16.

FALSE. That was just a rumor, R* always said 16.

If we get 32 or more than 16 players, it will have to be PC and/or PS4 and XB1. Also, you have to think about spreading things like police and other enemies over those 32 players. If you have 32 players, those 32 may be getting chased by cops at the same time while shooting at the same time. That would mean you have to connect 32 players too eachother, while having 32 cars, 32 weapons and hundreds of cop cars, regular NPCs in cars and pedestrians all at the same time. PS3 and Xbox360 simply wouldn't be able to handle that in such a big map. The game sometimes will already drop frames when 6 players shoot explosives at each other, let alone 32...

 

 

Sounds like more of a bandwidth issue of R*'s servers than a hardware limitation of consoles that can process gigaflops of data...

You just don't want to understand, do you?

 

You must be mental to think that 32 people can run around each with a unique combinations of props, face model, customized cars, explosives, with AI cops on their asses. On top of traffic, pedestrians, dynamic objects in the world (like fences, boxes, mailboxes, light posts, etc) on 8-7 year old hardware.

 

 

I'm a programmer so I understand how the underlyings work. Heck a game like World of Warcraft has just as many things going on at once, variables changing, etc. and it's mostly all done server side and sent back to each player. If you truly believe the 16 player count is not an artificial limit you must have no clue what you're talking about.

 

So you basically want R*'s servers to do all the math for us. Honestly you're asking for too much.

OK, tell me one game that comes close to the scale of GTAO that does that on the PS3/360.

Edited December 28, 2013 by BBQ RIBS

[Sterling Malory Archer]

"I am [insert name here]. I can code better than the entire Rockstar staff but I have no evidence to back it up."

 

10 Print "That would be me";

20 Goto 10

[BBQ RIBS]

 

 

I'm a programmer so I understand how the underlings work. Heck a game like World of Warcraft has just as many things going on at once, variables changing, etc. and it's mostly all done server side and sent back to each player. If you truly believe the 16 player count is not an artificial limit you must have no clue what you're talking about.

 

The server in this case is your console, or console hardware.

 

Even with dedicated servers on consoles, you STILL can`t get too high - just look at Battlefield 4, which has dedicated servers for consoles. Does it have 64 players, or not?

 

It has 64 players... on new gen.

[vahnx]

 

 

 

 

 

Originally GTAO was thought to have 32 players max but they cut it down to 16.

FALSE. That was just a rumor, R* always said 16.

If we get 32 or more than 16 players, it will have to be PC and/or PS4 and XB1. Also, you have to think about spreading things like police and other enemies over those 32 players. If you have 32 players, those 32 may be getting chased by cops at the same time while shooting at the same time. That would mean you have to connect 32 players too eachother, while having 32 cars, 32 weapons and hundreds of cop cars, regular NPCs in cars and pedestrians all at the same time. PS3 and Xbox360 simply wouldn't be able to handle that in such a big map. The game sometimes will already drop frames when 6 players shoot explosives at each other, let alone 32...

 

 

Sounds like more of a bandwidth issue of R*'s servers than a hardware limitation of consoles that can process gigaflops of data...

You just don't want to understand, do you?

 

You must be mental to think that 32 people can run around each with a unique combinations of props, face model, customized cars, explosives, with AI cops on their asses. On top of traffic, pedestrians, dynamic objects in the world (like fences, boxes, mailboxes, light posts, etc) on 8-7 year old hardware.

 

 

I'm a programmer so I understand how the underlyings work. Heck a game like World of Warcraft has just as many things going on at once, variables changing, etc. and it's mostly all done server side and sent back to each player. If you truly believe the 16 player count is not an artificial limit you must have no clue what you're talking about.

 

So you basically want R*'s servers to do all the math for us. Honestly you're asking for too much.

OK, tell me one game that comes close to the scale of GTAO that does that on the PS3/360.

 

 

Servers are the future of gaming. That's what MS was going to do with the Xbox One until everyone raged. Like it or not it's the future. Once the average internet has fast enough internet everything is going to be processed with external servers. Who still uses Outlook? Email is now usually cloud based and soon gaming/high end tasks will be. We won't have to rely on having powerful machines. Right now most of the data used in GTAO is cloud based - they can change mission environments on the fly (adding or deleting objects seamlessly without having to patch it on our end).

[Phyxsius-]

It has 64 players... on new gen.

 

 

There we go. So, a somewhat decent hardware platform can handle 64 players, just like the PC version, with only PS3/XBOX presumably worse hardware, which can`t.

 

So, it is hardware and not artificial.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Phyxsius-

[BBQ RIBS]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally GTAO was thought to have 32 players max but they cut it down to 16.

FALSE. That was just a rumor, R* always said 16.

If we get 32 or more than 16 players, it will have to be PC and/or PS4 and XB1. Also, you have to think about spreading things like police and other enemies over those 32 players. If you have 32 players, those 32 may be getting chased by cops at the same time while shooting at the same time. That would mean you have to connect 32 players too eachother, while having 32 cars, 32 weapons and hundreds of cop cars, regular NPCs in cars and pedestrians all at the same time. PS3 and Xbox360 simply wouldn't be able to handle that in such a big map. The game sometimes will already drop frames when 6 players shoot explosives at each other, let alone 32...

 

 

Sounds like more of a bandwidth issue of R*'s servers than a hardware limitation of consoles that can process gigaflops of data...

You just don't want to understand, do you?

 

You must be mental to think that 32 people can run around each with a unique combinations of props, face model, customized cars, explosives, with AI cops on their asses. On top of traffic, pedestrians, dynamic objects in the world (like fences, boxes, mailboxes, light posts, etc) on 8-7 year old hardware.

 

 

I'm a programmer so I understand how the underlyings work. Heck a game like World of Warcraft has just as many things going on at once, variables changing, etc. and it's mostly all done server side and sent back to each player. If you truly believe the 16 player count is not an artificial limit you must have no clue what you're talking about.

 

So you basically want R*'s servers to do all the math for us. Honestly you're asking for too much.

OK, tell me one game that comes close to the scale of GTAO that does that on the PS3/360.

 

 

Servers are the future of gaming. That's what MS was going to do with the Xbox One until everyone raged. Like it or not it's the future. Once the average internet has fast enough internet everything is going to be processed with external servers. Who still uses Outlook? Email is now usually cloud based and soon gaming/high end tasks will be. We won't have to rely on having powerful machines. Right now most of the data used in GTAO is cloud based - they can change mission environments on the fly (adding or deleting objects seamlessly without having to patch it on our end).

 

There you have it. You just didn't need to expect the same thing on the PS3 or X360.

[spidey1234]

If they do bump it up to 32 players it will just increase the number of hackers the game will have in each session..

[Furry_Monkey]

I'm a programmer so I understand how the underlyings work.

 

Then you understand memory allocation and how more options and more objects utilises more memory, and therefore you understand why something as complex as the objects that we see as people, NPCs and vehicles can mean that a game on such a scale as GTA has reached its limits (bear in mind that it's not the limits of all platforms - it's the limits of the lowest platform),

[SFBryan18]

The reason this game and games like COD are limited to a low player count is because they are too cheap to setup dedicated servers. A host can only handle so many connections before the lag becomes unplayable. Games like SOCOM, Resistance, and MAG all used dedicated servers. MAG had a max player count of 256 and the graphics were still pretty good because the majority of what happens on your screen does not come through the internet. The meshes, textures, animations, scripts, etc. are already there and all that needs to go through is who, where, and with what. The game is loading up to 512MB of info at once, but the host is only really communicating kilobytes of information.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SFBryan18

[Furry_Monkey]

The reason this game and games like COD are limited to a low player count is because they are too cheap to setup dedicated servers. A host can only handle so many connections before the lag becomes unplayable. Games like SOCOM, Resistance, and MAG all used dedicated servers. MAG had a max player count of 256 and the graphics were still pretty good because the majority of what happens on your screen does not come through the internet. The meshes, textures, animations, scripts, etc. are already there and all that needs to go through is who, where, and with what.

So having dedicated servers means that everything can be done locally???

[Juanfartez]

 

"I am [insert name here]. I can code better than the entire Rockstar staff but I have no evidence to back it up."

 

10 Print "That would be me";

20 Goto 10

 

[Furry_Monkey]

 

 

"I am [insert name here]. I can code better than the entire Rockstar staff but I have no evidence to back it up."

 

10 Print "That would be me";

20 Goto 10

 

 

Punchards, smunchcards.

 

[SFBryan18]

 

The reason this game and games like COD are limited to a low player count is because they are too cheap to setup dedicated servers. A host can only handle so many connections before the lag becomes unplayable. Games like SOCOM, Resistance, and MAG all used dedicated servers. MAG had a max player count of 256 and the graphics were still pretty good because the majority of what happens on your screen does not come through the internet. The meshes, textures, animations, scripts, etc. are already there and all that needs to go through is who, where, and with what.

So having dedicated servers means that everything can be done locally???

 

I don't know what you mean by locally. Dedicated servers will still have lag due to individual connection fault such as if a player is on WiFi or international, but in general, the dedicated server is much more stable than a console and can keep the players in much better sync. Consoles often have a lag where some players are ahead of each other, but you see much less of this in games that used dedicated servers. There will always be lag on the internet, but some hardware is much more superior to reducing this than others. Relying on the console to keep players connected is just being cheap and not caring about competition at all. This is why COD has always been a joke.

 

The difference between a console and server in their ability to hold connections is the processor. A console has to process the game itself and also process the connections coming and going. A server can process all the information coming and going without the strain of processing anything else, and that's why it can hold so many more connections, not to mention that a server usually has a much better processor than an individual computer.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SFBryan18

[Furry_Monkey]

 

 

The reason this game and games like COD are limited to a low player count is because they are too cheap to setup dedicated servers. A host can only handle so many connections before the lag becomes unplayable. Games like SOCOM, Resistance, and MAG all used dedicated servers. MAG had a max player count of 256 and the graphics were still pretty good because the majority of what happens on your screen does not come through the internet. The meshes, textures, animations, scripts, etc. are already there and all that needs to go through is who, where, and with what.

So having dedicated servers means that everything can be done locally???

 

I don't know what you mean by locally. Dedicated servers will still have lag due to individual connection fault such as if a player is on WiFi or international, but in general, the dedicated server is much more stable than a console and can keep the players in much better sync. Consoles often have a lag where some players are ahead of each other, but you see much less of this in games that used dedicated servers. There will always be lag on the internet, but some hardware is much more superior to reducing this than others. Relying on the console to keep players connected is just being cheap and not caring about competition at all. This is why COD has always been a joke.

 

 

You contradicted yourself. First of all you said that dedicated servers would solve the problem, then you said that "the majority of what happens on your screen does not come through the internet". So what difference does a dedicated server make?

 

The console will *always* be responsible for rendering data in a manner that we comprehend, and that data needs to be sent to and from the console in order to make everyone see the same thing (if that's actually possible - check any COD killcam for proof that it's currently not).

 

The data packets sent for games are nothing, which is why people on lower broadband services can still play them.

[SFBryan18]

 

You contradicted yourself. First of all you said that dedicated servers would solve the problem, then you said that "the majority of what happens on your screen does not come through the internet". So what difference does a dedicated server make?

 

What problem are we talking about? When it comes to lag, a really good host can hold a connection comparable to a dedicated server, but you are depending on if the chosen host is really that good. This thread however is about max player count, and the fact is, individual console processors can only handle so many connections.

 

Perhaps if they were able to use several connections to host all at once, like a web of multiple hosts, maybe they could eliminate the use of a dedicated server, but if it were that easy to do, I think they would have already done it.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SFBryan18