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theadmiral

General North Korea discussion

Recommended Posts

Sunrise Driver
Also what the f*ck you on about on Russian and China voting? Like, wat.

Recent sanctions against NK. All 5 voted for them yet NK got angry only against "evil" USA.

Edited by Sunrise Driver

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sivispacem

That's largely because both Russia and China are covertly continuing to supply the DPRK and circumvent sanctions where possible.

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Tchuck

 

Also what the f*ck you on about on Russian and China voting? Like, wat.

All 5 voted for them yet NK got angry only against "evil" USA.

 

 

Oh gee, I guess that maybe it would be because, last I checked, no other nation on the planet has been beating the drums of war against North Korea as the US has. Literally, no other nation is talking about invading North Korea or attacking North Korea. Except for the US. I wonder why they see the US as evil.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

It doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks, the DPRK will always do what it wants.

 

In reality, no matter what they say about attacking Guam, the US mainland, or South Korea, the US would eliminate the entire nation of North Korea a few moments after the DPRK launched their strike.

 

The DPRK is just boasting and sabre rattling like it always does. This is the price the world paid when no peace deal was ever signed. Now both side are too entrenched to resolve the differences and the generations of 'education' the North Korean civilian population has received would stop them accepting any deal anyway.

 

The only way the DPRK would approach the table for talks is, as Sivis says, if the Russians and China did actually stop supplying the DPRK as they always have, no matter what the rest of the world tries to do.

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darthYENIK

God, please don't allow the US to use nuclear weapons. Obviously, for the well being of South Korea, Japan, Guam, or anyone around North Korea, please god don't let them use nuclear weapons.

 

Furthermore, I'm more worried that any conflict in that region would further tensions between the US and China.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

God, please don't allow the US to use nuclear weapons. Obviously, for the well being of South Korea, Japan, Guam, or anyone around North Korea, please god don't let them use nuclear weapons.

 

Furthermore, I'm more worried that any conflict in that region would further tensions between the US and China.

They wouldn't use them first, that's the point.

 

The DPRK is currently holding it's own fate in it's hands. The US gains nothing from striking first and the agreements between South Korea and the US in the use of nuclear weapons are 'retaliatory and last resort' only.

Edited by Uncle Sikee Atric

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darthYENIK

Bad writing on my part. The second sentence of my post "please god don't let them use nuclear weapons", the "them" in that sentence is North Korea. Basically, I'm praying no nukes from either side. That would very obviously be bad, because of the mutually assured destruction. But who knows if NK can hit the US, so it wouldn't be so mutual of destruction.

Edited by darthYENIK

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DerangedCrackhead

So is this how living during the Cold War nuclear paranoia felt like?

 

Remember, duck and cover.

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Triple Vacuum Seal

So is this how living during the Cold War nuclear paranoia felt like?

 

Remember, duck and cover.

 

It does have remnants of that, at least as baby boomers seem to describe it. The difference was that back then the threat of destruction was more mutual from the US perspective. Now it's only the DPRK that faces a threat of nuclear destruction. The rest of the world will just be f*cked by the imminent crash of global financial markets following a nuclear strike regardless of how 'successful' any such strike might be...unless we're forced to reveal/unleash something more destructive than nukes.

 

 

From Trump's perspective, a war could save his whole political career. All of a sudden, he won't be the guy who colluded with Russia, he'll be a "war President"

 

Politically, this is a really what’s most alarming. Trump’s transgressions will be viewed through an entirely different frame if he’s a wartime President. Scrutiny will be lax and reelection would look more likely in such a scenario. Bush got a second term despite his incompetence for this very reason. Perhaps Trump will have plenty of South Korean blood on his hands, but lucky for him, South Koreans don’t vote. Japan faces quite a threat as well.

Edited by Triple Vacuum Seal

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El Dildo

Remember, duck and cover.

mmhmm

 

 

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DarkSavageDeathlyCloud

So...with other words this whole thing is not that concerning then and is just gonna stay with words ?

 

I don't know really...kim yong-un seems quite the insane character, or at least i heard his old classmates and such called him stupid.

 

If they were to fire a nuke, would the USA be able to intercept it ?

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sivispacem

Probably

 

DPRK often doesn't appear to act rationally but I genuinely don't believe the administration would do something as fundamentally suicidal as even military grandstanding aimed directly at the US.

 

Probably. US anti-ballistic missile defences are the best in the world by some considerable margin. That's even assuming that a missile with a warhead would actually survive launch and reentry, let alone fall close enough to warrant an interception.

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DareYokel

Probably

 

DPRK often doesn't appear to act rationally but I genuinely don't believe the administration would do something as fundamentally suicidal as even military grandstanding aimed directly at the US.

You might find this interesting:

 

 

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sivispacem

I take any report which talks about "the truth" regarding North Korea highly suspicious. Especially from, let's be frank, lay men.

 

We know from some of the research work done into their internet use, largely gathered from infrastructure misconfigurations and the like, that the common perception of the entire country being an internet black hole is totally wrong.

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DareYokel

I take any report which talks about "the truth" regarding North Korea highly suspicious. Especially from, let's be frank, lay men.

 

We know from some of the research work done into their internet use, largely gathered from infrastructure misconfigurations and the like, that the common perception of the entire country being an internet black hole is totally wrong.

Don't mind the title. It's an interesting discussion that I saw a while ago when I watched the full podcast. It's actually contrary to all the common misconceptions that people have about that country. It is mostly about the structure of North Korean society and how it all works. They're not as irrational and certainly not dumb as most people seem to think. They know exactly what they're doing and why.

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Dragon_Of_Tragedy

After nazi Germany collapsed and the concentration camps were discovered.....Yea,that will look like Disney Land compared to what we find in North Korea.

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Chiarii

A nuclear strike against NK may actually be the humane thing to do. The mistreatment that the citizens have had to live through is atrocious and will undoubtedly continue without outside intervention. Sometimes, the most civil, humanitarian thing to do is end it quickly as an act of love.

 

As for Trump launching a war there, I believe it's unlikely. It would be an extremely brief war. I do believe NK will strike someone, probably Japan or SK (unintentionally) but they may actually hit or attempt to hit Guam. If Trump wants a war for reelection purposes he should choose an enemy that will provide a longer, drawn out war that he can keep up for years.

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sivispacem

After nazi Germany collapsed and the concentration camps were discovered.....Yea,that will look like Disney Land compared to what we find in North Korea.

To describe this comment as offensively, catastrophically and ridiculously ignorant is amongst the largest understatements I've ever made.

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DareYokel

A nuclear strike against NK may actually be the humane thing to do. The mistreatment that the citizens have had to live through is atrocious and will undoubtedly continue without outside intervention. Sometimes, the most civil, humanitarian thing to do is end it quickly as an act of love.

f*ckin' hell. There's no bottom to this stupidity chasm, is there? It's an abyss.

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Chiarii

 

A nuclear strike against NK may actually be the humane thing to do. The mistreatment that the citizens have had to live through is atrocious and will undoubtedly continue without outside intervention. Sometimes, the most civil, humanitarian thing to do is end it quickly as an act of love.

f*ckin' hell. There's no bottom to this stupidity chasm, is there? It's an abyss.

 

 

Rather than insult, explain. If you can. Personally, I think you're too stupid to do that, but humor me and try.

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DareYokel

 

 

A nuclear strike against NK may actually be the humane thing to do. The mistreatment that the citizens have had to live through is atrocious and will undoubtedly continue without outside intervention. Sometimes, the most civil, humanitarian thing to do is end it quickly as an act of love.

f*ckin' hell. There's no bottom to this stupidity chasm, is there? It's an abyss.

 

 

Rather than insult, explain. If you can. Personally, I think you're too stupid to do that, but humor me and try.

Even if we ignore the fact that millions of innocent people in NK would die, a nuclear war with North Korea will without a doubt lead to NK launching missiles on South Korea and possibly Japan, leading to an even greater loss of innocent lives. And who knows, maybe NK has missiles that can reach the US. And now I'm gonna leave you to ponder what the world and the economy would look like with South Korea and Japan in flames. Not to mention America's role in the world after all of that.

Edited by The Yokel

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Typhus

A nuclear strike against NK may actually be the humane thing to do. The mistreatment that the citizens have had to live through is atrocious and will undoubtedly continue without outside intervention. Sometimes, the most civil, humanitarian thing to do is end it quickly as an act of love.

 

As for Trump launching a war there, I believe it's unlikely. It would be an extremely brief war. I do believe NK will strike someone, probably Japan or SK (unintentionally) but they may actually hit or attempt to hit Guam. If Trump wants a war for reelection purposes he should choose an enemy that will provide a longer, drawn out war that he can keep up for years.

Trump seems to live within the moment, rather than being a man capable of long term planning. It is tempting to read cerebral gamesmanship into this spat with North Korea, but in truth, it may be as simple as them getting under his skin and him wanting to drop a few bombs to make himself feel better.

It would certainly fit into what we know of the man, like how he had paid flatterers to applaud him when he gave a speech to the CIA, and how he wanted a golden coach to ride in when he proposed visiting London, or how about this article?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-propaganda-document-admiring-tweets-photos-chyrons-2017-8?r=US&IR=T

He has a circle of sycophants who routinely have to show him photographs of himself looking statesmanlike to appease his ego.

 

And maybe all this is hearsay and it's not as bad as it seems. But, to most people, it seems a nightmare scenario. I mean, just think about it. The man hasn't been in power for a year and already we're seriously discussing the prospect of nuclear war. Eventually you can't explain away this mans behaviour, and have to start viewing it as illogical and dangerous.

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Eutyphro

A nuclear strike against NK may actually be the humane thing to do. The mistreatment that the citizens have had to live through is atrocious and will undoubtedly continue without outside intervention. Sometimes, the most civil, humanitarian thing to do is end it quickly as an act of love.

So if we were to find out you were a miserable person, would that give us the right to put you out of your misery 'as an act of love'? Or if we found out your family was on average rather depressed, could we then proceed to 'put them out of their misery'?

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Chiarii

North Korea will without a doubt lead to NK launching missiles on South Korea and possibly Japan, leading to an even greater loss of innocent lives. And who knows, maybe NK has missiles that can reach the US. And now I'm gonna leave you to ponder what the world and the economy would look like with South Korea and Japan in flames. Not to mention America's role in the world after all of that.

 

 

That's really SK's and Japan's problem. They should've handled this years ago. As for NK having missiles that can reach the US, sure, I'll concede that they may have missiles that can travel that far. That in no way means they would hit the US. We have something called 'missile defense' and it's been tested twice since May. We're confident that we won't be hit by NK. If SK did suddenly disappear from the planet, the world economy wouldn't be affected too much. Also, America's role in the world doesn't change at all in the event that this does happen.

 

I think the lesson here that should be learned is: don't ignore a problem and wait for someone else to fix it. That someone else may be Trump or a man like him.

 

 

And maybe all this is hearsay and it's not as bad as it seems. But, to most people, it seems a nightmare scenario. I mean, just think about it. The man hasn't been in power for a year and already we're seriously discussing the prospect of nuclear war. Eventually you can't explain away this mans behaviour, and have to start viewing it as illogical and dangerous.

 

So in your view, Trump is the problem here, not Kim Jong-un? Right, NK totally wasn't threatening nuclear war before Trump was elected. The only illogical thing that I see is the USA allowing a small, poor, insignificant nation like NK to be a threat and a bully.

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Typhus

 

And maybe all this is hearsay and it's not as bad as it seems. But, to most people, it seems a nightmare scenario. I mean, just think about it. The man hasn't been in power for a year and already we're seriously discussing the prospect of nuclear war. Eventually you can't explain away this mans behaviour, and have to start viewing it as illogical and dangerous.

 

So in your view, Trump is the problem here, not Kim Jong-un? Right, NK totally wasn't threatening nuclear war before Trump was elected. The only illogical thing that I see is the USA allowing a small, poor, insignificant nation like NK to be a threat and a bully.

I must ask, because you sound very cavalier about this whole thing, but if Trump does bomb them, and butcher their citizenry, do you think it will help? Do you think it's an issue which can be solved by the President throwing another tantrum and deciding to kill a few people to alleviate his frustration?

 

You don't seem to grasp the seriousness of this problem. North Korea always makes threats, but their ability to make good on these threats is still up in the air. Previous administrations have employed a carrot and stick approach with them, trying to juggle their relations with China with this loose cannon regime no one can seem to control. Given the precarious nature of this relationship, can you see why people are unnerved that Trump - notoriously thin-skinned and erratic - talks in terms of "fire and fury"? Can you at least understand that?

Edited by Typhus

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Tyler

As for Trump launching a war there, I believe it's unlikely. It would be an extremely brief war. I do believe NK will strike someone, probably Japan or SK (unintentionally) but they may actually hit or attempt to hit Guam. If Trump wants a war for reelection purposes he should choose an enemy that will provide a longer, drawn out war that he can keep up for years.

 

So this is a sentiment I've seen repeated by others speculating on the nature of a possible war with North Korea, and I have to disagree pretty strongly. The Korean People's Army is a robust structure within North Korean society, and presents a number of challenges that anyone not paying attention is likely to miss. The misconception here is that they are all a bunch of backwards, brainwashed, malnourished people who don't really want to fight a combined South Korean/Japanese/American military effort. There is also a tendency to believe that the People's Army will fight us like any other conventional military force, and thus be defeated by our clear advantage. If that were the case, so it would be. However, North Korea's military is comprised of a paramilitary force making up over 25% of their population, as well as a mandatory conscription service that ends after ten years of continued service to the military-industrial complex--be it through soldierization or work in the factories, farms, or administrative bureaus that keep the Army running.

 

More to the point, the People's Army has since its foundation been at least nominally trained in guerrilla warfare techniques. This goes back to Kim Il-Sung's war. Moreover, fighters from the KPA were known to have instructed Hezbollah during the Second Lebanese War, and may have at least had a role in training fighters from Syrian Army during that country's ongoing civil war. The short of it is this: the KPA are probably capable of fighting an extended insurgency.

 

In terms of traditional force, there is no one that meets the might of the United States military. However, as the 21st century and various encounters through history have shown, any conventional fighting force is going to have issues with eliminating an insurgent threat. The majority of the country of North Korea is mountain ranges with steep valleys separating them. Extensive engineering projects from the current government has left the country in a state of ecological distress, with floods and massive soil erosion being common. Less than a 1/5th of the land is arable. Basically, it's the worst kind of environment to send a division of armor, and infantry movement will be slow enough thanks to the environment--that's not counting insurgent threats from the KPA and paramilitary forces as we advance through the region.

 

I'm explaining all of this because people tend to think we could just roll in and be done with the war in a matter of weeks. The reality is that our greatest strength as a military will be less effective than we'd like. Additionally, we are mostly not deranged monsters, so a preemptive nuclear strike like the kind you suggested will also not come into play. In other words, strategic military offensives combined with a slow pace of war is what we will likely see in the event of an all-out war against the country. It's the kind of thing that may, in fact, take years. This isn't even going into the humanitarian disaster that will probably occur once millions of Korean refugees are born from the constant artillery and missile strikes going back and forth across the DMZ.

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Svip

Hold on a second, Chiari, are you saying that South Korea and Japan should have stood up to the USSR and later China as both were holding their hand over North Korea, and China to a point still is? I hardly see how this is South Korea's or Japan's problem. This is mostly China's fault. They let the regime get out of control without any plans for containing it.

Edited by Svip

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SouthLand

Do you guys really think there is going to be another war in the Korean peninsula? I highly doubt it honestly

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Chiarii

So if we were to find out you were a miserable person, would that give us the right to put you out of your misery 'as an act of love'? Or if we found out your family was on average rather depressed, could we then proceed to 'put them out of their misery'?

 

Sorry for missing this yesterday. Anyways I'm a little startled to see you make a comparison as unusual as this. I suppose if I were to play along, I would say that euthanasia is appropriate in cases in which the pain of life supersedes the fear of death. It most certainly is an act of love. I'm guessing that you would probably rather have a merciful, quick death than live the rest of your natural life in North Korea, under the tyrannical rule of a psychotic imbecile.

 

 

I must ask, because you sound very cavalier about this whole thing, but if Tump does bomb them, and butcher their citizenry, do you think it will help? Do you think it's an issue which can be solved by the President throwing another tantrum and deciding to kill a few people to alleviate his frustration?

 

Yes Typhus, I think it will help. When NK is gone, the threat that it poses will go with it. I absolutely grasp what I'm saying here.The carrot and stick approach can work when there's intent without capability. Now we believe the capability is there so it's time for a different tactic. That aside, it should be painfully clear that whatever strategy previous administrations have used over the last few decades hasn't worked. Wouldn't you agree it's time for something new?

 

 

I'm explaining all of this because people tend to think we could just roll in and be done with the war in a matter of weeks. The reality is that our greatest strength as a military will be less effective than we'd like. Additionally, we are mostly not deranged monsters, so a preemptive nuclear strike like the kind you suggested will also not come into play. In other words, strategic military offensives combined with a slow pace of war is what we will likely see in the event of an all-out war against the country. It's the kind of thing that may, in fact, take years. This isn't even going into the humanitarian disaster that will probably occur once millions of Korean refugees are born from the constant artillery and missile strikes going back and forth across the DMZ.

 

I appreciated your post right up until the point where you implied I'm a deranged monster. I think that traditional warfare between 2+ nuclear-capable states is outdated. We have moved into a new era where we are ruled by an unpredictable man with limited patience who openly expresses a desire to strengthen our nuclear arsenal, and a couple other states are in exactly the same situation. Even if we weren't it's still wrong to say that a preemptive nuclear strike won't come in to play. That option is always on the table and it's a good option. It spares the lives of American soldiers and spares the American citizens a long, expensive war. It's ridiculous to spend years and trillions of dollars in NK only to accomplish what could've been done in a day.

 

 

I hardly see how this is South Korea's or Japan's problem.

 

Considering that NK is pretty much limited to hitting SK and Japan, this is only SK and Japan's problem.

Edited by Chiari

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