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theadmiral

General North Korea discussion

Recommended Posts

sivispacem

I don't need you, of all people, badly and innacurately paraphrasing my comments. But the DPRK's primary exports are military equipment and minerals/mining produce. That accounts for something like 40% of exports according to the best estimates.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

I did not miss your point. You just refereed to the drug trade and I wanted to also include a list of other illicit activities the DPRK is very involved in.

 

You say that North Korea's revenue stream cannot only come from illegal activities? Well maybe, as i said before in this thread, everything we say here, it's just pure speculation because we DO NOT have access to a reliable source inside North Korea to check our facts. Let's focus on what we do know, I like to think about the Korean peninsula as a chessboard. South Korea are the blue pieces and North Korea are the red pieces (To avoid misleading statements I decided to change the colors white and black for blue and red). The blue pieces (SK) are played by a player called United States and the Red pieces (NK) are played by a player called China.

 

In other words, The Korean peninsula is a buffer zone between China's interest sand the US interests and both play their role supporting a different country in the peninsula.

 

 

TL;DR: Taking this in hand, I believe that North Korea get's it's money from criminal activities + few legal activities and a lot of help from especially China and who knows if Russia and Iran are involved.

You should register on Conspiracy forums, they have a page for people like you....

 

You'll be surprised how Russia and Iran feel about North Korea. Perish the thought they have nukes, they are in range as well and no one but the DPRK regime itself knows how it thinks.

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Tchuck

Didn't Russia warn them a while back after their most recent nuclear tests? Telling them to quit stirring sh*t up or something along those lines?

 

Yeah, I don't think there's any sympathy from Russia towards NK.

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G's Ah's

Russia does warn it a couple of times but the most that comes out of it is not objecting to a new list of sanctions. Russia doesn't really have any vested interests in North Korea so it's only really involved because it has a small border with them.

 

Speaking of nuclear tests, looks like North Korea is gearing up for another underground test:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-nuclear-site-idUSKCN0XH2HV

 

In addition to that, a recent ICBM test went awry, with reports that it exploded on the launch pad:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missile-idUSKCN0XC010

 

And finally, China is deploying 2,000 troops along North Korea's border in anticipation of said pending nuclear test:

http://www.ibtimes.com/china-deploys-troops-north-korea-border-fearing-fifth-nuclear-test-report-says-2357158

 

Fun times ahead.

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SouthLand

 

I did not miss your point. You just refereed to the drug trade and I wanted to also include a list of other illicit activities the DPRK is very involved in.

 

You say that North Korea's revenue stream cannot only come from illegal activities? Well maybe, as i said before in this thread, everything we say here, it's just pure speculation because we DO NOT have access to a reliable source inside North Korea to check our facts. Let's focus on what we do know, I like to think about the Korean peninsula as a chessboard. South Korea are the blue pieces and North Korea are the red pieces (To avoid misleading statements I decided to change the colors white and black for blue and red). The blue pieces (SK) are played by a player called United States and the Red pieces (NK) are played by a player called China.

 

In other words, The Korean peninsula is a buffer zone between China's interest sand the US interests and both play their role supporting a different country in the peninsula.

 

 

TL;DR: Taking this in hand, I believe that North Korea get's it's money from criminal activities + few legal activities and a lot of help from especially China and who knows if Russia and Iran are involved.

You should register on Conspiracy forums, they have a page for people like you....

 

You'll be surprised how Russia and Iran feel about North Korea. Perish the thought they have nukes, they are in range as well and no one but the DPRK regime itself knows how it thinks.

 

 

I don't believe in conspiracies. I believe in business and profit, that is how the world works. You currently have Russia siding with Armenia on the Nagoro-Karabakh conflict. At the same time, Russia is selling weapons to the other side (Azerbaijan).

 

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-will-continue-selling-weapons-to-azerbaijan-and-armenia---rogozin/565479.html

 

Oh, and don't forget the cheap labor slaves imported to North Korea to work on Siberia.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/15/world/asia/north-korean-labor-camps-in-siberia/

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Uncle Sikee Atric

But when an 'ally' is warning you to back down regarding your actions, you would think you would take notice....

 

Business can be quickly cut by sanctions. Quite honestly, Russia is struggling right now due to the sanctions from Europe and welcomes the money stream.

 

But we need to take it down a level. Imagine your neighbour was doing something crazy that threatened your garden.... Would you tell them to back down and stop if it guaranteed your own safety as well?

 

Russia is as scared as every other nation the Asylum ends up with nukes. China can lean as well and I doubt it will hesitate to sanction if it feels workable weapons are available. Russia will follow suit as quickly, if not quicker.

 

No one wants the DPRK armed with nukes. At the end of the day, no one wants to invade their territory either as a war of domination will cost so much for everyone, it is more we want to keep them in their borders and ensure the safety of the everyone else.

 

The sabre rattling the DPRK is continuing to perform is starting to make a noise, I feel the issue is going to become something that harasses the next White House incumbant. I think Obama has managed to dodge a bullet regarding the issue.

 

Mind you, the DPRK might be rattling because of the US Elections, if they calm down shortly afterwards, we will know if that is the case.

Edited by Sikee Atric

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SouthLand

But when an 'ally' is warning you to back down regarding your actions, you would think you would take notice....

 

Business can be quickly cut by sanctions. Quite honestly, Russia is struggling right now due to the sanctions from Europe and welcomes the money stream.

 

But we need to take it down a level. Imagine your neighbour was doing something crazy that threatened your garden.... Would you tell them to back down and stop if it guaranteed your own safety as well?

 

Russia is as scared as every other nation the Asylum ends up with nukes. China can lean as well and I doubt it will hesitate to sanction if it feels workable weapons are available. Russia will follow suit as quickly, if not quicker.

 

No one wants the DPRK armed with nukes. At the end of the day, no one wants to invade their territory either as a war of domination will cost so much for everyone, it is more we want to keep them in their borders and ensure the safety of the everyone else.

 

The sabre rattling the DPRK is continuing to perform is starting to make a noise, I feel the issue is going to become something that harasses the next White House incumbant. I think Obama has managed to dodge a bullet regarding the issue.

 

Mind you, the DPRK might be rattling because of the US Elections, if they calm down shortly afterwards, we will know if that is the case.

 

In other words, "F*ck the North Koreans that starve to death but hey, we only care about nukes and how it shouldn't be allowed for you guys to own one". The West only cares about North Korea when they do something that can be a threat. But when it comes to trying to remove the Kim's from power, everybody passes. It's better to leave them alone since they are "NO harm", "No harm" to the locals that starve to death, "No harm" to the women sold as sex slaves in China, "No harm" to the Chinese families that are seeing how their kids get addict thanks to North Korea's cheap pure heroin coimng from the border. "No harm" to the North Koreans waiting to die in some Labor camp.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

So what the rest of the world do to aid to average North Korean civilian?

 

You forget the regime has basically manipulated and educated them to hate the rest of the world so it is even doubtful they would accept the aid anyway, unless the regime said it was from themselves....

 

The DPRK chose the path of isolationism, not the civilian population. It is cruel to think it, but right now there is little the rest of the world can do. A military route would be crazy, a political route is just not happening, an underhand route would take generations to have an effect. (The leak of the internet over the Chinese border is starting to take this route, but the effect is slow.)

 

Yes I feel sorry for the civilian population, but I feel sorry for others trying to help them as well. No avenues are open right now and they could be shut for the foreseeable future.

 

Sanctions would actually close and solve some of the trade, so maybe being cruel to be kind will be a positive.

 

And tone the ranting down, this is a discussion, not an argument.

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SouthLand

I don't know what's going to end up happening, but i don't whant to see Kim Jong Un die for natural causes at the age of 90 and his regime get passed on to another family member.

 

And no, it was NOT a rant and my tone was calm. The tone of something you read is created by yourself in your head.

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universetwisters

Didn't they accept food and aid from their famine in the 90s? Or did they just turn it down?

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Uncle Sikee Atric

China has always had limited exports and imports with North Korea and food aid has been sent in through that route in the past.

 

But the regime has always 'manipulated' the civilian population into believing they are getting the better end of the China trade deals, so they are happy to accept it. Even though they would starve without it.

 

I think China lets the regime get away with this manipulation of information since they don't want civilians to starve....

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G's Ah's

I think China lets the regime get away with this manipulation of information since they don't want civilians to starve....

 

No, they don't want millions of refugees flooding across the Yalu River making the current crisis in Europe look like a walk in the park.

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SouthLand

 

I think China lets the regime get away with this manipulation of information since they don't want civilians to starve....

 

No, they don't want millions of refugees flooding across the Yalu River making the current crisis in Europe look like a walk in the park.

 

 

On paper you are right, however, i thing that North Koreans soldiers would find a wat withing days to build trenches or any other defensive system to avoid North Koreans escaping their country and shooting on sight everybody that tries.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

 

 

I think China lets the regime get away with this manipulation of information since they don't want civilians to starve....

 

No, they don't want millions of refugees flooding across the Yalu River making the current crisis in Europe look like a walk in the park.

 

On paper you are right, however, i thing that North Koreans soldiers would find a wat withing days to build trenches or any other defensive system to avoid North Koreans escaping their country and shooting on sight everybody that tries.

Civilians are already using isolated border sections to cross into China and smuggle items back into the country, that is common knowledge. Starving civilians would find a way out.

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G's Ah's

I'm pretty sure the North Korean Army doesn't even have enough munitions to stop five or six million people from making a run for it when the proverbial hits the fan.

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SouthLand

Decoder: North Korea’s Maritime Industry
How U.N. sanctions targeting the Hermit Kingdom's shipping business awaken Pyongyang’s creative spirit.

 

On Feb. 28, the cargo freighter Jin Teng, flying the flag of Sierra Leone, arrived in the Philippines. It was using what’s known as a “flag of convenience” — to subvert regulations or fees, shipping companies often register vessels in foreign states. In this case, the device was meant to obscure the fact that the Jin Teng was, in fact, a ship hailing from North Korea, a country recently in hot water for testing nuclear devices and conventional missiles. The ruse was undone days later when the boat’s name turned up on a U.N. Security Council list sanctioning 31 North Korean vessels. About a week after, another North Korean ship, the Theresa Begonia, was detained at a different Philippine port, flying the flag of Tuvalu.

The two boats were the first to be held after the latest wave of U.N. sanctions, but Pyongyang has a long history of skirting international law. For decades, merchant ships have helped the isolated state generate much-needed hard currency through the illegal trafficking of drugs, arms, and counterfeit currency. In 2003, for instance, a former North Korean missile scientist told the U.S. Senate that a single ferry transported most of the parts needed for Kim Jong-il’s rogue missile program. The country also relies on its fleet of more than 200 known merchant vessels to transport oil from Russia, livestock from Sudan, and palm oil from Malaysia. It is buoyant trade with China that most busies the fleet, but that could become idle if North Korea’s chief ally follows through on an early April promise to ban crucial imports and exports.

 

Read More: http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/04/decoder-north-koreas-maritime-industry-united-nations-sanctions-business-oil/

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NumaYay

When will Otto Warmbier be freed?

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SouthLand

When will Otto Warmbier be freed?

 

When the US government accepts giving NK something in return.

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NumaYay

Anybody heard of these North Korean labor camps? Horrific!

 

The whole world is talking about Kim Jong Un and his nuclear bombs, but you barely hear anything about those poor people trapped in these hell-ish North Korean "gulags". They starve (so they even eat rats!), get tortured, live in a cell where they can't even stand, have to sleep on concrete floors even in the winter, get executed for minor "mistakes", their life is pure hell! The world should focus more on these f*cking labor camps!

Edited by NumaYay

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SouthLand

Anybody heard of these North Korean labor camps? Horrific!

 

The whole world is talking about Kim Jong Un and his nuclear bombs, but you barely hear anything about those poor people trapped in these hell-ish North Korean "gulags". They starve (so they even eat rats!), get tortured, live in a cell where they can't even stand, have to sleep on concrete floors even in the winter, get executed for minor "mistakes", their life is pure hell! The world should focus more on these f*cking labor camps!

 

The only information you have about them are just of those defectors that escaped NK. You can't have a lot of information about something if you can't go directly to the place in question.

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NumaYay

At least you have satellite pictures that prove that these camps are expanding.

 

And the informations given by defectors are pretty consistent, there's even a former guard who worked at one of those labor camps and witnessed gas chamber experiments with prisoners.

 

These camps must be pure hell, prisoners starve, they sometimes do not even know what they've done and they are not allowed to ask questions about their "crime". They get tortured, executed, they starve to death because they barely get anything to eat, people there are - according to defectors - living sceletons.

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SouthLand

^ I don't doubt that. However, it would be more accurate to have full access to the information.

 

If you like to read and watch stuff about North Korea, i recommend you to watch this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKYBu9xIfac

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Switch

Let's sanction them, that'll show them! mission accomplished /s

Edited by Switch__

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Uncle Sikee Atric

Looks like there have been two more tests of North Korean missiles....

 

The first missile failed but the second travelled 250 miles before making a splash landing.

 

This is in defiance of all sanctions of course.

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SouthLand

Like we say in my country, Hecha la ley, Hecha la tampa. ("Every law has a loophole.")

 

Sanctions have not damaged NK economy as much as they wanted to. The North Koreans just got clever and clever at finding a proper loophole to avoid sanctions, and boy did they achieve it.

 

- They still are the Nº1 Drug producer in the world

- They made the best fake 100$ bills that where very hard to spot.

- They own a lot of businesses unofficially which they use to launder money

- They use Macau as their own gold exchange place and own bank.

- They are heavily involved in weapon and people trafficking.

 

Funny how anybody can search this things up on Google and the UN still thinks Sanctions are really damaging NK.

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Switch

Like we say in my country, Hecha la ley, Hecha la tampa. ("Every law has a loophole.")

 

Sanctions have not damaged NK economy as much as they wanted to. The North Koreans just got clever and clever at finding a proper loophole to avoid sanctions, and boy did they achieve it.

 

- They still are the Nº1 Drug producer in the world

- They made the best fake 100$ bills that where very hard to spot.

- They own a lot of businesses unofficially which they use to launder money

- They use Macau as their own gold exchange place and own bank.

- They are heavily involved in weapon and people trafficking.

 

Funny how anybody can search this things up on Google and the UN still thinks Sanctions are really damaging NK.

Well lots of those so called articles have no evidence, UN aren't just some random south koreans that start up fake rumors. Even if they have evidence of all those things, they may choose to ignore it.

Edited by Switch__

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SouthLand

Well lots of those so called articles have no evidence, UN aren't just some random south koreans that start up fake rumors. Even if they have evidence of all those things, they may choose to ignore it.

 

 

 

As I mentioned before in this topic, all the information of whaterver that goes on in North Korea can not be obtained by a 100% reliable source. That's because all the information comes from the Government and witness that happen to be defectors of the NK regime.

However, we can obtain reliable information about North Korea's operations outside it's borders. Such as the high increase of drugs addicts in the region closer to North Korea and the many raids Chinese police have done and have arrested North Koreans with a lot of drugs that came from NK. We can also obtain reliable information on the Pong Su, a NK ship that smuggled drugs in Australia and was captures and it's crew arrested and finally the North Korean ship involved in illegal arms trafficking captured in Panama heading to Cuba.

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BrownBear

 

 

 

- They still are the Nº1 Drug producer in the world

 

I doubt North Korea's drug dealing really goes much further than smuggling poor quality amphetamines into other East Asian countries.

It's definitely not the top drug producer, where did you even get that? I mean, the only drugs they can produce are synthetics, mainly meth, which the market for in Asia in completely dominated by China, but also Burma, Philippines and Indonesia. As far as I know, the only country which receives significant amounts of drugs from N Korea is Japan, a country where drug abuse is extremely uncommon. Far and away the biggest market for meth in Asia is in the South East, which already produces huge amounts of crystal and heroin, so it wouldn't make sense to import from as far away as North Korea. The same with Australia, which has a huge meth problem, it's far cheaper to import from the Philippines or produce locally than importing from North Korea, not to mention easier.

 

All that said, I've heard that abuse of crystal meth within North Korea is absolutely rampant and socially accepted. Not sure about the truth of this, but I've heard that during the famines families were encouraged to start producing meth as a source of income; apparently this led to it being used very commonly as a painkiller.

Edited by BrownBear

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