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theadmiral

General North Korea discussion

Recommended Posts

Tchuck
14 minutes ago, G's Ah's said:

How? 

Read my post.

14 minutes ago, G's Ah's said:

North Korea didn't exist at the time the Congo Free State did. The two aren't comparable. 

Says you. One was a nation who willfully enslaved an entire state and caused a genocide that was swept away by the history books because black people don't matter. The other went and imprisoned dissenters and whatnot. Yet you only call one evil. But it doesn't fit your narrative of evil right.

 

Quote

The fact that you seem to be under the impression that North Korea's horrific human rights record is nothing more than Western propaganda is quite incredulous.

Where have I said that their internment camps are western propaganda? Where have I denied that they exist and weren't/aren't used for torture and forced labor? Show me. 

Cause what I did say was that it is highly hypocritical to single out one nation as evil and claiming it as one of the countries with the worst history of human rights records, and put it on the same level with the likes of Israel, Nazi Germany, the British Empire.

14 minutes ago, G's Ah's said:

It's worse.

Seriously? Internment camps are now worse than genocide and the holocaust? Ok we're done then.

 

Oh but it is pretty rich that you will question the veracity of what North Koreans say, except when said North Koreans are denouncing the regime.

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G's Ah's
11 minutes ago, Tchuck said:

Read my post.

I did. All I received was a thinly veiled attempt at apologism. 

 

Quote

Internment camps are now worse than genocide and the holocaust?

No, they're on par with that, but they are worse than what the "allies" are supposedly doing now. 

 

Quote

Oh but it is pretty rich that you will question the veracity of what North Koreans say, except when said North Koreans are denouncing the regime.

Because a totalitarian regime that pumps out propaganda and attempts to control what it's citizens believe about themselves and their situation in life, and one which commits atrocities not seen since the days of Auschwitz, has a lot of incentives to lie.  

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G's Ah's

I'm going to assume it's a refinement of current missile technologies. 

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Tchuck
On 7/31/2018 at 3:13 PM, Darth Yokel said:

Been over a month since then, and nothing else came up. Sounds like an attempt to find things that were never there just to sow intrigue in the region. No nation was ever alarmed at it either.

 

So....

 

And look at that, a military parade without ICBMs. 

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Typhus

There is speculation that Chinese President Xi Jinping will attend the coming North Korean summit along with the leader of South Korea, to officially announce an end to the Korean War:

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/02/356_263281.html

If this is the case, it will be a great step forwards and likely do a lot to further thaw relations between North and South.

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Tchuck

North Korea is showing the world that it is possible for the US to mind their own f*cking business. All you need is a bargaining chip: ie, nukes.

Get nukes, and you get peace.

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Typhus

Trump has become the first President to visit North Korea:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/jun/30/trump-arrives-at-demilitarised-zone-to-meet-north-korean-leader-kim-jong-un-live

Regardless of what one may think of Trump, this is a hugely important move, and a very positive one at that. Anything which promotes peace and dialogue should be celebrated.

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Tchuck

Absolutely great for the region. Collaboration between the two Koreas will ensure peace in the region. Only Trump could have done this, imo. If it was Clinton? Hah. She'd have bombed NK by now. Obama? Never gave a sh*t about Korea. Wouldn't make a deal with them either since Dems would have a collective aneurysm if he tried. 

 

Now if only Trump would do the same towards Iran!

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Smith John

I'm just munching away on my toffee-flavoured popcorn while watching the BBC going apesh*t claiming it's just a photo op for the 'entertainer in chief'. It's f*cking hilarious watching them spaz out!

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sivispacem

I mean to a certain degree it is a photo op. Nothing precludes it from being both that and a positive step forward. It's definitely not just a cynical photo op (and I'm interested in where you got the impression the BBC claimed it was as that's totally contradictory to the discourse that happened in Today on R4 at about 6:15 this morning). But to claim it exclusively as some diplomatic triumph is also pretty short sighted; the history of the Korean peninsula is filled with grand gestures (albeit few on this scale, and several during the Trump presidency) that have amounted to little more than that in the long run.

 

The key sticking point- disarmament- remains the same. Unless the US administration shifts it's approach- that is to say, relaxes sanctions and begins to encourage the DPRK back into the diplomatic community- then little will change in the long run. I question whether the DPRK will ever give up nuclear weapons through diplomacy though- only one state has ever voluntarily disarmed, South Africa, and that was as a result of a collapse of the entire existing political and social order.

 

Similarly, I have concerns whether powerful elements in the DPRK military are as amenable to a thawing in relations; certainly the progress in previous years was not mirrored by any decline in DPRK offensive activity in cyberspace, quite the opposite in fact.

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Yokelsson

Pointless. NK won't change unless their regime changes. That won't happen peacefully. The only thing that Trump is doing is strengthening Kim Jong-Un's power and influence.

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Tchuck
14 hours ago, DareYokel said:

Pointless. NK won't change unless their regime changes. That won't happen peacefully. The only thing that Trump is doing is strengthening Kim Jong-Un's power and influence.

Yes. Because we all know how great America's track record is in violent regime changes. Iraq, Afghanista, Libya, Vietnam, Syria, Kuwait.... All now much better nations thanks to American influence, right?

 

NK is doing exactly what any state would be doing. Those sanctions aren't doing sh*t to get NK to cooperate; they're only harming the civilian population. 

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Evil empire

North Korea is like the right-wing countries: the undeniable evidence the ideologies based on the concentration of powers are a cancer.

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Midnight Hitman

What can be done regarding the labor camps in North Korea? So many horrific accounts from prisoners who managed to escape, there are even accounts from former guards which reveal the horrific circumstances prisoners have to life in.

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Bartleby

The short answer: not much, and nothing which hasn't already been tried. The North Korean prison system is designed to repress political opposition and keep people under the thumb of Kim's regime: step out of line and you may just net a life sentence not just for yourself, but for your children and grandchildren as well.

 

A carrot-and-stick approach through sanctions or other forms of isolation from the outside world has not been effective at getting them to do much of anything. North Korea already prides itself as the "hermit kingdom" founded on the proclaimed idea of self-reliance ("Juche"), despite their continued dependence on international aid.

 

Regime change from the outside isn't an option either; violating North Korean sovereignty (let alone toppling the Kims), no matter how well-intentioned it could be, would open a can of worms which no one wants to deal with. Leaving aside the wider international potential consequences, the humanitarian crisis that would ensue is a headache no one in the region likely really wants. China would certainly not be keen on having a NATO-friendly country directly on its border, and I can't imagine South Korea being happy to take on a reunification project that would dwarf that of the German case and require at least a generation of manpower and resources.

 

Oh, and they have nukes, there's that too. Though their ability to actually deliver one may still be debatable.

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Typhus

Has anyone been following the news coming out of North Korea in the last few days? Kim Jong Un is apparently in hospital after undergoing surgery. China has sent their own medics to observe him. And various sources are saying he in a very bad way. In the last hour, TMZ of all places, is reporting that he's dead.

 

Personally, I don't believe it. But considering the slight thawing of relations between North and South Korea, and America's diplomatic overtures to the country, how would his death impact this?

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Awful Waffle
6 minutes ago, Typhus said:

TMZ of all places, is reporting that he's dead.

actually, TMZ has a pretty good track record of getting this sh!t right.

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GhettoJesus
3 hours ago, Typhus said:

Has anyone been following the news coming out of North Korea in the last few days? Kim Jong Un is apparently in hospital after undergoing surgery. China has sent their own medics to observe him. And various sources are saying he in a very bad way. In the last hour, TMZ of all places, is reporting that he's dead.

 

Personally, I don't believe it. But considering the slight thawing of relations between North and South Korea, and America's diplomatic overtures to the country, how would his death impact this?

No definite sources on his death but he is in vegetative state afaik.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

Hard to tell what's going on....

Poor medical condition I can believe, but other than that I wouldn't like to comment on his health.

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sivispacem

There's no definitive sources on any of this, it's basically all Twitter rumors at this point. Recent satellite imagery shows his train near one of the North Korean resorts so he may just be on holiday.

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Uncle Sikee Atric
1 hour ago, sivispacem said:

There's no definitive sources on any of this, it's basically all Twitter rumors at this point. Recent satellite imagery shows his train near one of the North Korean resorts so he may just be on holiday.

 

The problem is, even that could have been staged by the regime and just artificially run there to divert attention from reality.


We may not know the truth for some time yet.

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Tchuck

All hearsay. South Korea themselves have been denying these rumors of his death and whatnot. Being the ones with the biggest interest in stability in the North, you can bet they'd be the first to know of something going wrong. 

 

Never believe any stories coming from North Korea, be them positive or negative, until it's actually verified by multiple sources on both sides. Didn't he have his ex girlfriend killed once, but then she was actually alive and well working in the government? Didn't he use an AA gun to off his uncles once, but then he was seen alive and well? Yeah. 

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Awful Waffle
52 minutes ago, Tchuck said:

Didn't he use an AA gun to off his uncles once

nah you're thinkin of The Jackal.

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Shyabang Shyabang

I wonder where he gets his funds from despite the tighter economic sanctions?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Shyabang Shyabang

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Tchuck
6 hours ago, Shyabang Shyabang said:

I wonder where he gets his funds from despite the tighter economic sanctions?

From Europe, from America, from China. No surprise there? Black markets are the best markets, since you can hide and sell all kinds of dirty stuff. It's highly profitable for America, as they usually fund both sides of a conflict.

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sivispacem

Big part of it is also arms sales which DPRK has got very good at avoiding sanctions regarding. Narcotics, counterfeit tobacco. Cyber fraud on sy global scale; they've made tens of billions from bank raids, casinos and cryptocurrency exchanges. Still a fair bit of cross border trade with China and a few joint ventures elsewhere in East and Southeast Asia.

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