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theadmiral

General North Korea discussion

Recommended Posts

sivispacem

Arguably, the atomic bombs and the extreme firebombing of civilian centers done by the Americans was unnecessary.

Strategic bombing was doctrine employed by all the powers of the Second World War. The Japanese never conducted it at particular scale (though they did conduct it, particularly on the Sino-Japanese front), mostly due to a lack of capable aircraft- that is, capable in terms of both useful payload and effective range to threaten the US or other major Western allies operating in the theatre.

 

Retrospective analysis deems much of what takes place in war unnessessary. The Pacific front was effectively won in three mostly naval battles (Midway, Philippine Sea and Guadalcanal- though you could argue that Coral Sea was the real turning point in the Pacific) but given the huge scope of allied losses at Iwo Jima the assumption that Japan would fight tooth and nail to prevent a US invasion of the mainland was, at the time, rational.

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Cripto136

Given the rhetoric that comes from certain segments of the American population, are they even wrong in thinking so? You ask right-wingers, they'll say that the solution to NK's situation is to nuke them. Several of Trump supporters were itching for him to just nuke NK out of the map. Thus pretty much confirming whatever propaganda the NK government was doing.

Ask any American and most will say North Korea doesn't deserve to exist as a country and they'd be right. It has been nothing more than a cancerous state inflicting pain on its own people since its inception. One of their first planned actions in a war with the "warmongers" is flattening Seol via artillery and undoubtedly inflicting massive civillian casualties.

Speaking of human rights too, America isn't the pinnacle of it either, while it pretends to be so. Hundreds of thousands are suffering from poisoned water in Michigan for 4 years now. People being murdered in cold blood by the police for simply being in their backyard having a beer. Millions in jail forced to do labor for the prison to profit off of. Millions on the streets with nary a place to fall dead.

 

Please don't confuse balant bureaucratic negligence with intentional sanctioned murder. You can argue the similarity but the fact is one is caused by the work of a few either selfish or idiotic individuals working within their state while the other is standard governmemt policy. The U.S may not be perfect and clearly favors certain individuals but to compare our way of life with a dictatorship hell bent on controlling theirs is an insult.

 

Not saying that NK is a paradise, cause it sure as sh*t isn't, but whatever is talked about humanitarian crisis inside it can be taken with a massive pinch of salt due to unreliable information. Plus, a lot of those crisis end up being aggravated by the reaction from other nations. "Oh your people are starving? Then we'll cancel all aid until the government is overthrown" kind of situation. So much for being humanitarian and all.

I think its safe to say conditions in the North are terrible when people are willing to put their families and friends at risk of reprimandment just to leave the country. Not to mention the fact they choose prioritize their spending on military while preventing any food donating country from being able to supervise where its going. That doesn't inspire confidence in humanitarian efforts.

And sh*t, they don't even have to go all the way back to the 50s to show how Americans are evil. They can point to pretty much ANY intervention that America has tried in modern times, and point out how they all ended in a worse situation for the population, after years of bloody conflict. Anyone that isn't influenced by how the media portrays America as the good guys can see through the bullsh*t.

No they wouldn't, because just even talking about anything going on outside of their country is a threat to their grip on information. The only way they can even present themselves being superior to the U.S is through their never ending propaganda campaign. Edited by Cripto136

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Tchuck

 

Ask any American and most will say North Korea doesn't deserve to exist as a country and they'd be right[1]. It has been nothing more than a cancerous state inflicting pain on its own people since its inception.[2] One of their first planned actions in a war with the "warmongers" is flattening Seol via artillery and undoubtedly inflicting massive civillian casualties.

 

[1] They'd be right? Seriously? According to what metrics?

[2] All nations go through their growing pains. America has inflicted more pain on its own people since its inception than all other nations in the world combined. By your logic, America shouldn't exist.

[3] If North Korea attacked first and went for Seoul, they deserve everything they get in return. I never condoned their strategy for attacking Seoul with all their mighty first. And I do not condemn them for doing so in retaliation for the f*cking nuking of their land by the imperialists.

 

 

Please don't confuse balant bureaucratic negligence with intentional sanctioned murder. You can argue the similarity but the fact is one is caused by the work of a few either selfish or idiotic individuals working within their state while the other is standard governmemt policy. The U.S may not be perfect and clearly favors certain individuals but to compare our way of life with a dictatorship hell bent on controlling theirs is an insult.

 

Whose to say that your "bureaucratic negligence" isn't intentional? And in America's case, it's also pretty much standard government policy. Same kind of standard government policy that also dictated that Americans were inferior to other Americans based on their skin color. And it's rich to see you calling out NK as a "dictatorship hell bent on controlling a people's way of life" and not seeing the irony in America doing the same f*cking thing with the entire world as their target. But I guess it's fine if it's going to bring "freedom".

 

 

I think its safe to say conditions in the North are terrible when people are willing to put their families and friends at risk of reprimandment just to leave the country.[1] Not to mention the fact they choose prioritize their spending on military while preventing any food donating country from being able to supervise where its going[2]. That doesn't inspire confidence in humanitarian efforts.

 

[1] People leave their countries for whatever reason they might have. Thousands left Cuba, but Cuba wasn't the dictatorial nightmare that the American presses or these refugees painted it out to be.

[2] Famine has been over for more than a decade now, though.

 

 

No they wouldn't, because just even talking about anything going on outside of their country is a threat to their grip on information. The only way they can even present themselves being superior to the U.S is through their never ending propaganda campaign.

 

No they wouldn't what? See how the American government is evil? I can't propose to know how the education is taught in NK, or what version of history they use to portray the US as evil. Neither can you. But as someone from a third-world country, who has seen the US' actions around the world from a less americanized viewpoint, I can 100% affirm they wouldn't need to rely on the Americans actions in the Korean War to justify why America is evil.

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Cripto136

[1] They'd be right? Seriously? According to what metrics?

[2] All nations go through their growing pains. America has inflicted more pain on its own people since its inception than all other nations in the world combined. By your logic, America shouldn't exist.

[3] If North Korea attacked first and went for Seoul, they deserve everything they get in return. I never condoned their strategy for attacking Seoul with all their mighty first. And I do not condemn them for doing so in retaliation for the f*cking nuking of their land by the imperialists.

On the fact they're a rogue state run by a f*cking lunatic. You can't say the guy who had a bunch of his staff killed out of paranoia shortly after his ascension to power and even goes as far to threaten his only ally is the most stable person to run a country. Trump may say stupid sh*t but at the end of the day he isn't supreme leader of the United States. There are checks and balances that make sure of that. Also how are you going to compare 242 years worth of U.S history to NKs 70? At least in the past 70 years the U.S was able to improve domestic living dramatically on top of having to maintain a large military budget. Also are we convieniently forgetting that historically North Korea has been the agressor in most incidences across the border and not the other way around? You act as if Trump's nuclear threats have been standard U.S policy while the North has always attempted to threaten South Korea's security for decades with "stray" fire and infiltration units.

 

Whose to say that your "bureaucratic negligence" isn't intentional? And in America's case, it's also pretty much standard government policy. Same kind of standard government policy that also dictated that Americans were inferior to other Americans based on their skin color. And it's rich to see you calling out NK as a "dictatorship hell bent on controlling a people's way of life" and not seeing the irony in America doing the same f*cking thing with the entire world as their target. But I guess it's fine if it's going to bring "freedom".

No it isn't. Your points are circumstantial at best. Water poisoning isn't a country wide problem. Police officers are funded by the state and/or the city, not the federal government. Their conduct quality can vary greatly from one police department to the next. Those racial laws were also always a matter of state rights, again not enforced by the federal govenment until they had enough support to abolish it on a federal level in 1965. Also don't twist my words or my point, you were the one attempting to compare American standard of living to those in North Korea which is plain laughable in its own right.

[1] People leave their countries for whatever reason they might have. Thousands left Cuba, but Cuba wasn't the dictatorial nightmare that the American presses or these refugees painted it out to be.

[2] Famine has been over for more than a decade now, though.

But unlike Cuba, North Korea puts heavy emphasis on being a militaristic dictatorhip rather than being a communist state which the latter at least aims at ensuring people have proper living conditions. Also your the one critizizing the U.S for wanting to stop foreing aide during the famine and I gave you a point that wasn't grounded simply on wanting to hurt their government.

No they wouldn't what? See how the American government is evil? I can't propose to know how the education is taught in NK, or what version of history they use to portray the US as evil. Neither can you. But as someone from a third-world country, who has seen the US' actions around the world from a less americanized viewpoint, I can 100% affirm they wouldn't need to rely on the Americans actions in the Korean War to justify why America is evil.

No that they'd never educate their people about foreign affiars. I don't need to know North Korea's education system to guess they selectively choose what they want people to know. The fact that internet is heavily forbiden is already telling of how much free information they are willing to allow. After all why would you even want to incite curiousty about the rest of the world if you don't ever plan on letting them leave. Edited by Cripto136

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Hmmm nice bike

Welp, that whole situation with Trump and Kim meeting is kind of not looking like it'll happen now. North Korea has already suspended talks with South Korea over joint SK-US military drills. I'm not even surprised. With the way Trump and Kim are, something was bound to come up and throw everything off. I think a lot of people forget that both of these guys are assholes.

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Tchuck

 

On the fact they're a rogue state run by a f*cking lunatic.[1]

You can't say the guy who had a bunch of his staff killed out of paranoia shortly after his ascension to power and even goes as far to threaten his only ally is the most stable person to run a country.[2]

Also how are you going to compare 242 years worth of U.S history to NKs 70?[3]

Also are we convieniently forgetting that historically North Korea has been the agressor in most incidences across the border and not the other way around? You act as if Trump's nuclear threats have been standard U.S policy while the North has always attempted to threaten South Korea's security for decades with "stray" fire and infiltration units[4]

 

[1] So you're denying the people of North Korea the right to self-determination based on your opinion of what their government does? Typical American arrogance, wanting to dictate how everyone should run their nations.

[2] I don't recall ever saying that he was the most stable person to run a country. I do recall questioning on what grounds you assumed that their country shouldn't even exist, despite it's existence being largely a product of the fight between two super powers after a terrible war.

[3] Korea as a nation is far, far, far older than America. So they have more of a right to existence and self-determination than America ever did. The fact that, again, they were split up thanks to foreign interests doesn't remove their right to self-determination. South Korea, for its 70 years of existence, was mostly a puppet state of America, being ruled by a military junta that required approval from America for anything they wanted to do.

[4] I condemned those attacks, just like I condemn South Korea military exercises with the imperialists.

 

 

No it isn't. Your points are circumstantial at best. Water poisoning isn't a country wide problem. Police officers are funded by the state and/or the city, not the federal government. Their conduct quality can vary greatly from one police department to the next. Those racial laws were also always a matter of state rights, again not enforced by the federal govenment until they had enough support to abolish it on a federal level in 1965. Also don't twist my words or my point, you were the one attempting to compare American standard of living to those in North Korea which is plain laughable in its own right

 

Try being a disenfranchised minority in America and tell me how your standard of living is so much superior to North Koreans. Your way of life, as you referred to in your previous post, is based on the suffering of millions around the globe. There's blood of innocents in every aspect of American society; from the little kids working in China to make the products you use, to the civilians in oil rich countries being killed as "collateral" in one of the many invasions by your nation, in the name of "freedom". So much for a moral high ground!

 

 

But unlike Cuba, North Korea puts heavy emphasis on being a militaristic dictatorhip rather than being a communist state which the latter at least aims at ensuring people have proper living conditions. Also your the one critizizing the U.S for wanting to stop foreing aide during the famine and I gave you a point that wasn't grounded simply on wanting to hurt their government.

 

Because unlike Cuba, they weren't able to create a proper resistance against American imperialism. After the Cuba missile crisis, America had to be a lot more covert in their actions in trying to disrupt the regime. Thus why they tried to kill Castro several hundred times. And their attempt at an all out invasion failed miserably. Whereas with North Korea, they had to arm themselves to prevent the imperialists from simply invading them as they wished. They looked at the world, they saw the history of those who were on the opposing side to America's "ideals", and saw that they either got invaded and completely destroyed, or they got their nukes and America backed off. Hence, nukes.

 

 

No that they'd never educate their people about foreign affiars. I don't need to know North Korea's education system to guess they selectively choose what they want people to know. The fact that internet is heavily forbiden is already telling of how much free information they are willing to allow. After all why would you even want to incite curiousty about the rest of the world if you don't ever plan on letting them leave.

 

This doesn't address my point though? Brainwashing isn't required to see the Americans for what they are: hungry imperialists. They don't need to rely on facts about the Korean war. They can point to any year, and they'll find enough examples of America ruining another nation for their own benefit in the name of freedom and democracy.

 

 

Welp, that whole situation with Trump and Kim meeting is kind of not looking like it'll happen now. North Korea has already suspended talks with South Korea over joint SK-US military drills. I'm not even surprised. With the way Trump and Kim are, something was bound to come up and throw everything off. I think a lot of people forget that both of these guys are assholes.

 

Yeah, as it's usually the case. Both parties will come close to an agreement, then one of them will go back on their word over it. It has happened several times before, from both sides. I had hoped that America and South Korea would at least pause their military exercises as a show of good faith. But then, this was completely expected since Trump chose Bolton as his secretary. That guy epitomizes all that American Imperialism stands for.

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Short Stay

Now that N. Korea has apparently closed its test site I have a suggestion for how they might conduct further nuclear tests. Why not fire a nuclear-equipped missile straight into space? Done at night, the explosion would light up the sky for half a world hemisphere in the most brilliant flash Man has ever seen. And should it fail to detonate, it would harmlessly fly off into interplanetary space with everyone thinking it was just another ballistic missile test. Best single-firework display ever!

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sivispacem

Why not fire a nuclear-equipped missile straight into space...And should it fail to detonate, it would harmlessly fly off into interplanetary space

Yeah, that's not really how orbital mechanics works.

 

The main reason against exoatmospheric testing is the harm it causes to satellites and ground based communications. Neutron flux is exceptionally harmful to sensitive electronics, as is the electromagnetic radiation released. Starfish Prime damaged electronic systems over 1,000 miles away and that was in the early 1960s, where most electronics were much more resistant transistor types.

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Short Stay

 

Why not fire a nuclear-equipped missile straight into space...And should it fail to detonate, it would harmlessly fly off into interplanetary space

Yeah, that's not really how orbital mechanics works.

 

The main reason against exoatmospheric testing is the harm it causes to satellites and ground based communications. Neutron flux is exceptionally harmful to sensitive electronics, as is the electromagnetic radiation released. Starfish Prime damaged electronic systems over 1,000 miles away and that was in the early 1960s, where most electronics were much more resistant transistor types.

 

You know, in my excitement I completely forgot about those pesky satellites. I was expecting someone to point out what a navigation hazard an unexploded nuclear device could present, whereupon I could point to the vastness of space and also that the vehicle could be sent on a trajectory which would send it at some point into the sun.

 

Ok, plan No2. Uncle Kim threatens to disable/destroy a good number of the World's satellites and space telescopes by exploding a nuclear device in a relatively low Earth orbit unless...Donald Trump loses the comb-over and goes baldy.

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Cripto136

[1] So you're denying the people of North Korea the right to self-determination based on your opinion of what their government does? Typical American arrogance, wanting to dictate how everyone should run their nations.

[2] I don't recall ever saying that he was the most stable person to run a country. I do recall questioning on what grounds you assumed that their country shouldn't even exist, despite it's existence being largely a product of the fight between two super powers after a terrible war.

[3] Korea as a nation is far, far, far older than America. So they have more of a right to existence and self-determination than America ever did. The fact that, again, they were split up thanks to foreign interests doesn't remove their right to self-determination. South Korea, for its 70 years of existence, was mostly a puppet state of America, being ruled by a military junta that required approval from America for anything they wanted to do.

[4] I condemned those attacks, just like I condemn South Korea military exercises with the imperialists.

 

What self determination? They're consistently told to follow their god like leader without question or get sent to a re-education camp. They have no right to self determination other than their dear leader and his military sees fit.

And on what grounds you ask? We're talking about the same country that consistently threatens South Korea with physical force, imprisons/executes its own people for abritrary reasons, and practices slavery. All this just because China wanted a buffer state between them and the U.S who they eventually sold out to anyways after the Sino-Soviet split.

Also don't deflect the point. The U.S was established at a completely different era with different set of values. What would be North Korea was established after being freed from their oppressive Japanese captors in WWll. What did this newly established country do with this freedom? Installed another oppressive reigme that even now refuses to reform for the betterment of its people long after its allies had moved away from maoist/stalinst forms of government.

You can hate the U.S all you want. Fact is South Korea has evolved and flourished far more than their northern counterparts despite being a "puppet state".

 

Try being a disenfranchised minority in America and tell me how your standard of living is so much superior to North Koreans. Your way of life, as you referred to in your previous post, is based on the suffering of millions around the globe. There's blood of innocents in every aspect of American society; from the little kids working in China to make the products you use, to the civilians in oil rich countries being killed as "collateral" in one of the many invasions by your nation, in the name of "freedom". So much for a moral high ground!

Fyi I am a minority. Both my parents are from Mexico with my father being deported during my childhood making life for my mother more difficult. But regardless even with our hardships, we were still greatful to be living here instead of the other side of the border. And that isn't unique, despite all the racism and anti immigrant rhetoric that comes from some Americans, there are still droves of people who still want to come live here. Tell me how many people try going to North Korea for a better lives?

And so what if America has blood on its hands? What world power doesn't? Historically Russia certainly hasn't been a humble giant to its neighbors. The U.K ,France along with other European powers carved out the Middle East and Africa to their own liking which still has lasting impacts to this day. China, despite pushing out imperialist from their land, chooses to sell out their own people for foreign trade and currency.

 

Because unlike Cuba, they weren't able to create a proper resistance against American imperialism. After the Cuba missile crisis, America had to be a lot more covert in their actions in trying to disrupt the regime. Thus why they tried to kill Castro several hundred times. And their attempt at an all out invasion failed miserably. Whereas with North Korea, they had to arm themselves to prevent the imperialists from simply invading them as they wished. They looked at the world, they saw the history of those who were on the opposing side to America's "ideals", and saw that they either got invaded and completely destroyed, or they got their nukes and America backed off. Hence, nukes.

Proper resistance to what? Up until recently the U.S had long abandoned any plans in taking North Korea by force since it would destroy any diplomatic progress made with China. All the nuclear weapons guarantee is they'll permanetly damage South Korea and Japan just to hurt the U.S because it's incapable of threating the mainland. How's that for hypocricy?

This doesn't address my point though? Brainwashing isn't required to see the Americans for what they are: hungry imperialists. They don't need to rely on facts about the Korean war. They can point to any year, and they'll find enough examples of America ruining another nation for their own benefit in the name of freedom and democracy.

Oh right, those same hungry imperialist that preserved South Korea which now has one of the most powerful economies in world. The average North Korean is far more concerned with just living and staying in line with the party than what those pesky imperialist are doing in a different part of the globe.

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Typhus

Well...Trump's cancelled the summit:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/24/trump-cancels-north-korea-nuclear-summit

I sincerely hope North Korea's destruction of their nuclear facilities was a ruse, because this is precisely the kind of capricious behaviour such weapons were designed to guard against.

Edited by Typhus

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Svip

Well...Trumps cancelled the summit:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/24/trump-cancels-north-korea-nuclear-summit

I sincerely hope North Korea's destruction of their nuclear facilities was a ruse, because this is precisely the kind of capricious behaviour such weapons were designed to guard against.

It was a ruse in that they didn't actually destroy a working facility. Their nuclear facilities were destroyed in an earthquake last December. So it's more a show that they won't rebuild it.

 

Plus, it did not contain destruction of nuclear warheads, nor destruction of facilities where they keep said warheads. It is estimated that North Korea has about 50 warheads.

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DareYokel

NK got exactly what they wanted out of this. It still amazes me how little people know about their regime. Especially journalists who are supposed to be well informed.

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Typhus

It's hard to believe this is really happening. But, it is a positive step forwards, and will hopefully usher away the spectre of war which has hung over the Korean people for so long:

 

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Svip

Frankly, I don't think North Korea wants war.  And haven't for a long time.  Indeed, nuclear weapons are their investment in protection against war.  But now that Kim got his meeting with Trump, North Korea can tune down the rhetoric.  Assuming, North Korea gets assurances.

 

North Korea is likely to drag its heels, and they want the process to take a long time.  They are in no hurry.  Unlike the American President, who wants a deal pretty quickly.  This could lead to a scenario where the US gives up more than they should for a few concessions from the North Koreans, and those concessions are unlikely to be the ones the US really want; full denuclearisation.  Because why should they give that?  The US needs to offer something huge for that.

 

Despite my worry that the North Koreans have had this meeting planned for years now, although not the specifics of it, that came into details since last Autumn, and that the US still isn't prepared for it, I am hopeful that the meeting will at least lead to less sabre rattling.  North Korea is likely to demand that there will be no further talk of unification in Korea, lessen American presence in the DMZ, and ease it up in general.  North Korea is likely to offer easier entry for South Koreans, so they can meet lost family members and so forth.

 

Maybe?  I only think North Korea will offer the US some goodwill but easy to achieve options.  I doubt they will offer much in terms of denuclearisation.

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DareYokel
13 minutes ago, Svip said:

I only think North Korea will offer the US some goodwill but easy to achieve options.  I doubt they will offer much in terms of denuclearisation.

Of course they won't get rid of their nukes. Trump is just a temporary thing, as is the case with democracies. North Korea's not going to change their longterm goals just because someone like Trump who doesn't give a sh*t about anything but himself got to play POTUS for a while. They know that the very next administration could change the tune.

 

Personally, I wouldn't trust NK. Not even for the smallest concessions. The only way for NK to change is for the regime to fall. They don't have to give Trump anything or keep their promises because they know that Trump and his state media Fox News will basically do the propaganda for them to make Trump look good.

Edited by Darth Yokel

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Tchuck

U.S. will end war games with South Korea.

 

About god damn time. That military exercise was nothing but an exercise in posture and saber rattling that the world didn't condemn because SK and the US are friends of the world. If NK and China engaged in similar exercises, the uproar would be massive. 

 

If America follows through with this, and NK begins it's denuclearization process, this will be a great thing.

 

I just wonder what China is offering the NK in order for all this to go through.

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DareYokel
25 minutes ago, Tchuck said:

and NK begins it's denuclearization process

Come on now. You don't really believe that this will ever happen.

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Tchuck
1 hour ago, Darth Yokel said:

Come on now. You don't really believe that this will ever happen.

Hence the "If" at the beginning. Conditional referring to both America keeping its word regarding the exercises, and on NK stopping with the nukes.

 

Though I can't see why they wouldn't at least tone down their arsenal, specially in light of recent events where they have actively shut down development and expanding their arsenal.

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DareYokel

I'm sure they'll be back to their old selves as soon as Trump is out of office. Don't let yourself be played by NK. You're not Trump. He keeps demonstrating new levels of stupidity every day. Alienating his closest allies and praising a mass murdering dictator all in one week, and getting basically nothing in return other than Kim Jong Un's "good word".

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Short Stay
26 minutes ago, Darth Yokel said:

I'm sure they'll be back to their old selves as soon as Trump is out of office. Don't let yourself be played by NK. You're not Trump. He keeps demonstrating new levels of stupidity every day. Alienating his closest allies and praising a mass murdering dictator all in one week, and getting basically nothing in return other than Kim Jong Un's "good word".

All you say is true - but just look at the entertainment value he is generating.  The man is practically a whole TV channel to himself.

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Tchuck
43 minutes ago, Darth Yokel said:

I'm sure they'll be back to their old selves as soon as Trump is out of office. Don't let yourself be played by NK. You're not Trump. He keeps demonstrating new levels of stupidity every day. Alienating his closest allies and praising a mass murdering dictator all in one week, and getting basically nothing in return other than Kim Jong Un's "good word".

 

Meh, I'm not so sure on that. The history with NK has always been troubled because both sides refused to compromise. And when they did compromise on something, either side would back off when noticing that the other side wasn't doing things in a speedy manner.

This year, though, NK has demonstrated a lot more possibility for peace than in the past 6 decades combined. I don't doubt Kim has ulterior motives for this, as we don't know the real situation of what's going on in his regime. And you can bet China is behind his change of demeanor, as they were getting tired of the saber rattling.

 

But I don't see a reason why they would go back to threatening the South and the US. There would be nothing to gain form it, specially since the current South Korean president is very friendly towards the North.

 

And sh*t, America has been friends with murdering dictators throughout most of its existence. It's still extremely friendly with Saudi Arabia, despite them bombing civilians and hospitals in Yemen, and extremely friendly with Israel, despite them sniping off innocent civilians, including doctors and members of the press.

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DareYokel
1 hour ago, Tchuck said:

But I don't see a reason why they would go back to threatening the South and the US.

If they feel like that's what they need to do to preserve status quo then that's what they'll do. They're only really interested in preserving their regime.

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Tchuck
7 hours ago, Darth Yokel said:

If they feel like that's what they need to do to preserve status quo then that's what they'll do. They're only really interested in preserving their regime.

So is every nation out there, though?

 

But the scenario has changed a lot over the past couple of years, specially that devil Park was kicked out of office in South Korea. The conditions now are perfect for deescalation, which is what we've seen since the year turned.

I'm just glad America decided to end those useless military exercises. I would expect liberals would be happy that less money will go to waste with those exercises, but apparently they think Trump sold out America? This was literally the minimum America could have done to give sequence to further talks.

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DareYokel
6 hours ago, Tchuck said:

So is every nation out there, though?

Yeah, but North Korea's always been quite a unique regime. They're pretty much a real life example of comic book villains.

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Tchuck
30 minutes ago, Darth Yokel said:

Yeah, but North Korea's always been quite a unique regime. They're pretty much a real life example of comic book villains.

But are they though? The same could be said about most world leaders and countries, depending on your reference and time period. If you were a Palestinian child growing up in the open air prison that is the Palestinian state, you'd think America and Israel are the definition of villainy. If you were a Congolese person early last century, Belgium would be the representation of pure evil for what they've done, yet no-one in the western world remembers what amounted to genocide perpetrated by the king in search for riches. While some Americans vilified Gaddafi, millions of Libyans saw him  as a benevolent leader. While America painted Castro as a ruthless, brutal, evil man, he's well remembered by millions in Cuba. One man's hero is another's terrorist.

 

Thinking on the global stage, too, the ills North Korea "inflicted" on the world over its short existence don't compare at all to the ills inflicted by America and other nations.

 

And this whole painting them as a representation of evil is so ignorant and completely worthless when it comes to discussing the actual problems and finding a solution to the situation.

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DareYokel
2 hours ago, Tchuck said:

But are they though?

It's hell on Earth. The entire population is basically enslaved. They lock them up in gulags that aren't all that different from Nazi concentration camps. They're convicted to hard labor and they often die of hunger. They murder people in front of their children, they order executions of children who's families have been accused of dissent. A lot of people are sick and suffer from malnutrition and have worms in their intestines like stray animals. I could go on and on.

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Tchuck
42 minutes ago, Darth Yokel said:

It's hell on Earth.[1] The entire population is basically enslaved.[2] They lock them up in gulags that aren't all that different from Nazi concentration camps.[3] They're convicted to hard labor and they often die of hunger.[4] They murder people in front of their children,[5] they order executions of children who's families have been accused of dissent.[6] A lot of people are sick and suffer from malnutrition and have worms in their intestines like stray animals.[7] I could go on and on.

[1] This is hyperbole. My most accounts, it's not nearly close to hell on Earth. Palestine is a worse place. Several other African nations are in a worse state. You can look at various indexes and studies done by the UN, and you'll see that North Korea is a terrible place, but nowhere near hell on earth.

[2] Define enslaved. And citation needed. 

[3] Citation needed. Not denying hard labor camps do exist, but claiming they are like Nazi concentration camps seems very farfetched. 

[4] Citation needed. But this sort of thing also happens in other countries, including in America, with a massive homeless population that is left to die of exposure and hunger. Not "sanctioned" by the state, of course. But the end result is the same.

[5] Citation needed.

[6] Citation needed.

[7] 2 in 5 suffer from undernourishment, which is better levels than several other African and Latin American nations. The worms in their intestines like stray animals, bit? Citation needed.

 

Again, if you're just going to spew bullsh*t that North Korea is hell and evil, then I won't bother replying anymore because that kind of rhetoric is pointless. And why have you ignored the rest of my post? You're one step away from that american imperialist on the thread that decided that North Korea shouldn't even exist as a state.

 

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DareYokel

I honestly have no idea where I got all the info from. It's not one place. It's from various places and books that I had read years ago. It's no longer a subject that's very interesting to me. It's like asking me to cite stuff about atheism from the time when I was really into atheist stuff. I am still an atheist though, I just couldn't for the life of me remember who said what in which book and was it Hitchens or Dawkins etc. But I digress. You get the point.

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