trolling

[SIDtheWHISTLE]

At what point online does killing someone become trolling ?

[Killzone3265]

doing it while using the back of an entity, adder, or infernus is automatic douche label to me

[G_Masta_Phunk]

lol i think trolling or griefing is taking away that person's ability enjoy the game. Now if they get mad because they get killed a few times then that is their own fault. However, if you apply some logic to this you can turn it into an ethical argument.

 

The difference in just killing someone and griefing them is when you just kill them you simply playing the game. You see a potential victim, you shoot them. ect.... however, if you are hunting that person down using superior firepower (ESPECIALLY if you hacked the superior fire power aka gliching) killing them over and over to the point where they dont want to play with you anymore, and are forced to quit the game and find another session which... 1. takes a good amount of time when cloud servers are busy and 2. sometimes freezes up your game, happened to me once or twice when quitting/joining different sessions to find mission buddies...

 

Anyways... the difference is you are intentionally taking away someone else's freedom to enjoy the game at the expense of you enjoying toying with them. While simply killing them, for whatever reason... they were in your way, you saw them... you sook them out to kill them... ect.... they can siill respawn and go on with the game....

 

Sometimes I wish we respawned a bit further away.... its hard to get yourself grounded on a spawn and find a good defensive position right after a death...

[AzraelX]

Using a tank against a low ranked or otherwise clearly inexperienced player to rack up dozens of kills.

 

Edit: G Masta guy, I've seen someone correct you in another thread for your misuse of the word "griefing". You use it a lot, and in the wrong way. That's why he said "trolling", I'm not sure where you believe griefing comes into the equation. Griefing requires playing the game in an unintended way, and killing someone in a PvP game definitely does not quality. It's basically the exact opposite of griefing, even if losing upsets you.

 

On a side note, killing someone with hacked weapons is just cheating.

Edited December 2, 2013 by AzraelX

[G_Masta_Phunk]

Ya but I think it becomes griefing when you are doing it to the point where they have to quit the game.... I hope rockstar didnt intend for people to spawn kill a lower level in a hacked tank/buzzard to the point where the game is no longer fun for that individual....

 

so I stick by what I say bro. you are causing grief to another player with a cheat...

[SIDtheWHISTLE]

lol i think trolling or griefing is taking away that person's ability enjoy the game. Now if they get mad because they get killed a few times then that is their own fault. However, if you apply some logic to this you can turn it into an ethical argument.

 

The difference in just killing someone and griefing them is when you just kill them you simply playing the game. You see a potential victim, you shoot them. ect.... however, if you are hunting that person down using superior firepower (ESPECIALLY if you hacked the superior fire power aka gliching) killing them over and over to the point where they dont want to play with you anymore, and are forced to quit the game and find another session which... 1. takes a good amount of time when cloud servers are busy and 2. sometimes freezes up your game, happened to me once or twice when quitting/joining different sessions to find mission buddies...

 

Anyways... the difference is you are intentionally taking away someone else's freedom to enjoy the game at the expense of you enjoying toying with them. While simply killing them, for whatever reason... they were in your way, you saw them... you sook them out to kill them... ect.... they can siill respawn and go on with the game....

 

Sometimes I wish we respawned a bit further away.... its hard to get yourself grounded on a spawn and find a good defensive position right after a death...

Good answer.

 

I wasn't going to bore people with the details but I went after 2 guys (brothers who were on mics) who were shooting anyone on sight then putting 9k bounties on everyone and sending mercs after everyone also. So I stayed and stood my ground and chased them and kept killing them. And when they split up to either side of the map I got a buzzard and killed them in turn.

[DaCosta]

At what point online does killing someone become trolling ?

My K/D ratio is always under one because a) I probably suck at killing, lol but b) I don't constantly look to kill people in free-roam.

 

Personally, I'll go after someone with a bounty on occasion but otherwise I'll only go after someone that's killed me - usually randomly and for no particular reason. But once I've killed them (twice if I'm lucky) then I'll have no reason to wish to continue.

 

Sometimes I don't retaliate at all. A bounty being collected is just business, for instance.

 

It's difficult to strictly define "what is trolling", particularly when there are at least two perspectives on an interaction event, but I guess spawn-killing or targeting a non-aggressive individual over and over would be considered universal examples of trolling.

 

I would personally like player interaction to be more intelligent. So the game brings people together in mini-events around the map. Bounties and crate drops do this already but more regular and tempting things would be nice.

[iTz-JoNeSy]

doing it while using the back of an entity, adder, or infernus is automatic douche label to me

That isn't trolling. That is smart.

[God-eater]

I don't think there is a point where it becomes "trolling", so long as no exploits are being used (invulnerability, invisibility, inside walls, etc) - it's a PvP game, so as long as a PvP problem has a PvP solution then it's all fair, so to speak.

 

Technically, spawn killing is griefing, in the sense that the killer is exploiting the game mechanic of the close respawn and the disorientation of respawning player to rack up a string of easy kills.

[AzraelX]

Ya but I think it becomes griefing when you are doing it to the point where they have to quit the game.... I hope rockstar didnt intend for people to spawn kill a lower level in a hacked tank/buzzard to the point where the game is no longer fun for that individual....

The only part of that which isn't intentional is someone being so terrible that they can't just turn on passive mode and stop dying. It's available to low rank players for this reason, and it's extremely effective. Turn it on, get out of the road. All the tanks in the world can't do sh*t about that.

 

Technically, spawn killing is griefing, in the sense that the killer is exploiting the game mechanic of the close respawn and the disorientation of respawning player to rack up a string of easy kills.

Except the close respawn is an intentional gameplay mechanic to allow PvP to last for more than 10 seconds, so it's not griefing to utilize it that way.

 

You are not at a disadvantage compared to when you died either, you're actually at an advantage because they give you 5 seconds of invincibility to make sure you aren't unfairly killed. They also added passive mode and Off The Radar to assist people in avoiding conflicts.

 

PvP is intentionally non-consensual though, and people are rewarded for stringing as many kills together as possible. It isn't required for people to play that way, but it definitely isn't unexpected or even undesired by the developers.

[Jolly Swagman]

Be round about the point the person being killed goes on forums to make a post vaguely asking if they were being trolled or not

Edited December 2, 2013 by Jolly SWAGman

[SIDtheWHISTLE]

Be round about the point the person being killed goes on forums at make a post vaguely asking if they were being trolled or not

Trolling = having swag or yolo in your name and giving an answer to a question you clearly haven't read.

[biggsull]

It becomes trolling when your goal is to make the other person angry instead of just killing him. If you see a guy and think, "cool, an easy kill" That is not trolling. If you kill him 30x because you want to buff your kill/death.. that is not trolling.

 

If you kill him 30x because you *want to lower his kill/death* you are now trolling him.

 

Trolling is more of a state of mind than a pure action. It's like a crime, you need intent to be a troll, there is no such thing as an accidental or unintentional troll.. those would be called idiots.

Edited December 2, 2013 by biggsull

[Jolly Swagman]

Trolling = having swag or yolo in your name and giving an answer to a question you clearly haven't read.

 

Of course I have swag in my name. I keep it right next to my tucker bag. Check out my swag, it's a double sleeper:-

 

Edited December 2, 2013 by Jolly SWAGman

[M6 dRMG]

doing it while using the back of an entity, adder, or infernus is automatic douche label to me

I never understand this... so you're saying if I'm driving an entity I can't shoot anyone inside it because it's bulletproof from behind.. smart gaming my friend.

Why should I put myself at a disadvantage and get out, plus you can simply blow the car up, bad sport penalty has been reduced drastically. Blow me up and either drive away or we continue a gun fight, no biggie. It's when players shoot me whilst im simply driving my entity I start laughing and whip it in reverse.

 

Anyway if I want to go on a killing spree I ALWAYS take my entity. It's fast and nearly bulletproof. What's the problem?

 

herp derp brb taking my faggio so it'z fair for other pplz

[G_Masta_Phunk]

It becomes trolling when your goal is to make the other person angry instead of just killing him. If you see a guy and think, "cool, an easy kill" That is not trolling. If you kill him 30x because you want to buff your kill/death.. that is not trolling.

 

If you kill him 30x because you *want to lower his kill/death* you are now trolling him.

 

Trolling is more of a state of mind than a pure action. It's like a crime, you need intent to be a troll, there is no such thing as an accidental or unintentional troll.. those would be called idiots.

 

Kantian based ethics here... it is in the intent, not necessarily the action that makes things good or bad on a moral level... good argument and point of view...

 

 

Ya but I think it becomes griefing when you are doing it to the point where they have to quit the game.... I hope rockstar didnt intend for people to spawn kill a lower level in a hacked tank/buzzard to the point where the game is no longer fun for that individual....

The only part of that which isn't intentional is someone being so terrible that they can't just turn on passive mode and stop dying. It's available to low rank players for this reason, and it's extremely effective. Turn it on, get out of the road. All the tanks in the world can't do sh*t about that.

 

True, I guess I forgot about passive mode due to never needing to use it.... However I still stand by my point that if someone uses glitched or hacked weaponry agaisnt someone to attack them over and over... even if they enter passive mode they could follow them and destory their pv ect... if I am getting attacked by a glitcher in a chrome tank then I am getting griefed... if I am getting attacked by a legit dude who worked his butt off for the millions for the tank, ordered it from pegesus and attacked me... we are good...

[Valdorien]

Chrome Adders, Chrome Entity or Chrome Infernus shooting you while going backward.

Peoples shooting you while you are changing clothes.

Peoples shooting you randomly for no reasons at all.

 

 

When this happens I ask my friend to lend me his legitank, put a 1k bounty on the guy and teach him a lesson that I hope he will NEVER EVER forget. I'm usually talking about honor but when they are being really annoying I will do ANYTHING to destroy them completely.

 

Because It makes me mad and I know it.

[marco-polo]

I never understand this... so you're saying if I'm driving an entity I can't shoot anyone inside it because it's bulletproof from behind.. smart gaming my friend.

 

It's the reputation that the spawnkillers and cheap-shots have given birth to.

Whether you're doing the right thing or not, you will be treated like the others...

 

If you're doing your own thing and someone shoots, by all means tear that sh*t up.

[beat_savy_9]

At what point online does killing someone become trolling ?

any unprovoked attack, everybody knows the meaning.

Edited December 2, 2013 by beat_savy_9

[Inked.]

When playing the game is griefing.

 

If I go up to John and tell John he's a f*ckhead, given the definition of the term "griefing", I would be "griefing" John. John would go all over town saying I "griefed" him and I would be labeled as a "griefer".

 

The point being? People like to name and label behavior and society creates these opinions about them.

 

If I had killed John, and John had said "Will killed me!". People would be like "Yeah, so? It's the point of Grand Theft Auto, kill him back."

 

But if John had said "Will griefed me!". The pitch forks would come out and I gotta find a place to hide.

 

GTA at it's base core is still a death match, has been since Vice City, I remember the deathmatches on that. Then with SA:MP, IV, and now Online. They added passive mode because they know that most players are going to try to kill each other for no reason, it's just how people act. The same goes on in any open world multiplayer game, because it is just that, a game and people have no reason not to kill each other.

 

What players should be doing is fighting back (or not) and handling the situation in-game how they see fit, instead of complaining on a fan-forum about "griefing", which is not at all what it is.

[SantasLittlePyro]

Every now and then I like to attach a sticky bomb onto the side of a civilian vehicle, remove my radar dot via Lester and follow someone like an npc would until I decide to blow them up. Does that count as trolling or griefing?

[marco-polo]

Every now and then I like to attach a sticky bomb onto the side of a civilian vehicle, remove my radar dot via Lester and follow someone like an npc would until I decide to blow them up. Does that count as trolling or griefing?

 

Well were Kamikazes trolling or griefing?

[AzraelX]

if I am getting attacked by a glitcher in a chrome tank then I am getting griefed... if I am getting attacked by a legit dude who worked his butt off for the millions for the tank, ordered it from pegesus and attacked me... we are good...

Well, it isn't griefing, but it also isn't justifiable. I consider cheating, especially hacking, to be much worse than griefing. At least with griefing, they don't get anything except the satisfaction of pissing people off, they aren't actually trying to perform better in the game, and usually "lose" according to the game.

 

Cheaters, on the other hand, not only generally piss people off (since who likes losing to someone breaking the game's rules to win) but they also get rewarded by the game for it. The game basically says "they are better than you" when they're actually terrible and couldn't beat you without hacking the game or glitching to gain an unfair advantage.

 

Aside from towtruck griefers, I'd much rather deal with a griefer than a cheater. At least they don't tangibly benefit from the experience.

 

When playing the game is griefing.

 

If I go up to John and tell John he's a f*ckhead, given the definition of the term "griefing", I would be "griefing" John. John would go all over town saying I "griefed" him and I would be labeled as a "griefer".

 

The point being? People like to name and label behavior and society creates these opinions about them.

 

If I had killed John, and John had said "Will killed me!". People would be like "Yeah, so? It's the point of Grand Theft Auto, kill him back."

 

But if John had said "Will griefed me!". The pitch forks would come out and I gotta find a place to hide.

 

GTA at it's base core is still a death match, has been since Vice City, I remember the deathmatches on that. Then with SA:MP, IV, and now Online. They added passive mode because they know that most players are going to try to kill each other for no reason, it's just how people act. The same goes on in any open world multiplayer game, because it is just that, a game and people have no reason not to kill each other.

 

What players should be doing is fighting back (or not) and handling the situation in-game how they see fit, instead of complaining on a fan-forum about "griefing", which is not at all what it is.

Really well said.

 

Every now and then I like to attach a sticky bomb onto the side of a civilian vehicle, remove my radar dot via Lester and follow someone like an npc would until I decide to blow them up. Does that count as trolling or griefing?

It's neither, just a tactic. It has its pros and cons, and is strategically viable for any number of situations.

[LeSuede]

First world problem thread really. People getting mad because they aren't getting the outcome they expected.

I'm sorry but I can't hear you over the sound of those that are actually suffering in the world, where there is no need for an ethical debate to determine whether it is wrong.

 

You should be glad your only worries are getting spawn-killed by a tank in a video game, rather than having to run away from a one in real life because it's just blew up your apartment block.

 

Times like these, it's hard not to agree with those that think the West is f*cked.

[AzraelX]

Hey man, I could be a Syrian rebel for all you know. We are a third-world country, not a bunch of cavemen. We have internet.

[LeSuede]

Hey man, I could be a Syrian rebel for all you know. We are a third-world country, not a bunch of cavemen. We have internet.

 

Never said third world, nor that they didn't have internet.

Just made a point on the subject on ethics. If people think arguing whether getting killed/griefed in a video game is worth an ethic debate then I guess I just lost a little faith in humanity.

[AzraelX]

Lmao, I know what you mean. It's worth putting the conversation into perspective. I was just replying to the "first world problems" part

[DrandonBavis]

My KD is over 3.6. Now, 3.3 of that is done just by being exceptional at this game. .3 is done by me destroying trollers with my tank. I will destroy anyone who messes with me, others, or, and especially, ANYONE who plays loud, crappy music on freeroam. I killed a low rank dude 33 times in a row yesterday until he stopped playing the music. I troll the trollers, and I'm basically in the top 1% of gta online players when it comes to being a legend... But if you see anyone with a KD higher than 4, they most likely suck at this game and troll the hell out of people. I've seen KD's of 5 and 6 a lot. But guess what? The highest KD I've seen is 10.96!! Are you kidding me? He is in his tank 98% of this game. It's not fun for anyone and those are ones who need to be trolled. So when you see players with unexceptionally high KD's, report them for griefing, then grief them yourself. It's what I do, and it feels tremendous.

[Cool Story Bro]

worth a thread

[I.haigh]

Trolling is about getting a rise out of people. It's all about hilarious rage reactions.