The Identity Crisis: The Problems with V's story.

[FranklinDeRoosevelt]

^

 

It was clearly stated that this was not a fresh idea as SA and IV have already went over. Are you stupid? Who said anything about the corrupt FIB's being a new plot? Well, technically it is because they didn't randomly start ordering you to work for them like dogs. So in a sense, IT IS NEW. The fact that the FIB was personally involved with Michael and Trevor bought SOMETHING new to this GTA. In San Andreas, Toreno wasn't personally working with CJ, he was using him as a lapdog considering you have to kill him after wards as he tries to run away. And IV admittedly uses it differently.

Edited November 7, 2013 by FranklinDeRoosevelt

[Smith John]

 

@General:

 

*First, let me just address this:

 

You thought the drug mission involving Trevor/Franklin/Lamar was more explosive, gripping and spectacular than the FIB-related, Mr K rescue? C'mon man, you can't really expect me to take that seriously. I wouldn't even say opinion comes into it, only that your love for the 'gangsta' stuff seems to be hindering your judgement on this one.

 

As for your point about the government corruption stuff not being fresh; you're saying the same thing that 'gtarules_95' said, and as I told him, those things were minor elements of past GTA's. Now it's its turn to take the spotlight. Kind of like how the 'gangsta' stuff had the spotlight in SA, now it's its turn to take a backseat.

 

See what I'm saying?

I actually agree with @ Official General that mission was more explosive because it was more GTA- like not like that FIB mission which felt more like COD or splinter cell (like infiltrating a hq and getting a target out)

And about what you said earlier sure if the gang wars would be as repetetive as in San Andreas it would be not that much fun but it is possible to make that kind of criminal stuff interesting without going all OTT

 

 

OTT? There is NO GTA game more OTT than San Andreas. V strikes the perfect balance between realism and fun.

 

@General

 

I selected that example of yours because I found it to be the most ludicrous to use to compare, not because I'm being "biased". So simmer down before you turn this into some unnecessary flaming match.

[Official General]

@ FranklinRoosvelt

 

You're the f*cking idiot. On top of that, you're just being blindly ignorant to facts and reasonable conclusions.

 

Okay, whatever you say, Rockstar did not mislead us about gangs. Yeah, you're right, I'm stupid and so are the rest for ever believing that gangs were gonna play a significant part in the game, despite Franklin's trailer clearly showing otherwise

 

It's one thing to argue and have different personal opinions, but it's another thing to be totally ignorant and blind to the other side of the argument when reasonable evidence and facts are presented. In this case, I give up. You think what you wanna think, I got nothing more to say on this. I cannot have proper discussions with people who adopt such a stubborn mentality like you have displayed here.

 

@ spamtackey

 

Sorry, still don't agree with you. Same response as I gave to Franklin, without the aggression though.

 

@ niko bellic half brother

 

That don't matter, you should just accept what I told you and respect it, not dismiss it. You are in no position to tell me what I like and what I don't like. If I told you I liked that mission as one of my best ones, then that's what I told you, it should make no difference as to why I liked it as one of the best.

 

If you wanna continue having a decent, uninterrupted argument with me about this, then stop heading down the road to confrontation. You appear to be doing that by constantly referencing to my alleged bias towards gang stuff in GTA (which is not entirely true anyway). You don't need to go there, lets focus on the argument at hand, and then no one needs to simmer down.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Official General

[Journey_95]

 

 

@General:

 

*First, let me just address this:

 

You thought the drug mission involving Trevor/Franklin/Lamar was more explosive, gripping and spectacular than the FIB-related, Mr K rescue? C'mon man, you can't really expect me to take that seriously. I wouldn't even say opinion comes into it, only that your love for the 'gangsta' stuff seems to be hindering your judgement on this one.

 

As for your point about the government corruption stuff not being fresh; you're saying the same thing that 'gtarules_95' said, and as I told him, those things were minor elements of past GTA's. Now it's its turn to take the spotlight. Kind of like how the 'gangsta' stuff had the spotlight in SA, now it's its turn to take a backseat.

 

See what I'm saying?

I actually agree with @ Official General that mission was more explosive because it was more GTA- like not like that FIB mission which felt more like COD or splinter cell (like infiltrating a hq and getting a target out)

And about what you said earlier sure if the gang wars would be as repetetive as in San Andreas it would be not that much fun but it is possible to make that kind of criminal stuff interesting without going all OTT

 

 

OTT? There is NO GTA game more OTT than San Andreas. V strikes the perfect balance between realism and fun.

 

@General

 

I selected that example of yours because I found it to be the most ludicrous to use to compare, not because I'm being "biased". So simmer down before you turn this into some unnecessary flaming match.

 

It's ok that you think so man I'm just hoping they won't do sh*t like that in VI

Hopefully we will have a typical GTA story again but I'm not so sure because apparently people liked the new concept

@offical general you seem to have a similiar opinion what do you think?

Will VI be more about real gangs again or not? Will you buy it if not?

 

After the dissapointment of GTA V I don't know if I will

I suppose I just expected different things I thought it would be like 10 heists which the protags would do for themselves

Also every one of them would have a different story (like Michaels dealings with FIB and Madrazo, Franklin being caught up between the hood and becoming rich and Trevor dealing with various gangs like Triads and Angels of Death)

Edited November 7, 2013 by gtarules_95

[FranklinDeRoosevelt]

@ Franklin

 

You're the f*cking idiot. On top of that, you're just being blindly ignorant to facts and reasonable conclusions.

 

Okay, whatever you say, Rockstar did not mislead us about gangs. Yeah, you're right, I'm stupid and so are the rest for ever believing that gangs were gonna play a significant part in the game, despite Franklin's trailer clearly showing otherwise

 

It's one thing to argue and have different personal opinions, but it's another thing to be totally ignorant and blind to the other side of the argument when reasonable evidence and facts are presented. In this case, I give up. You think what you wanna think, I got nothing more to say on this.

 

@ spamtackey

 

Sorry, still don't agree with you.

What? LOL. I said you misinterperted the trailers because it didn't hint that the gangs were going to be a MAJOR part of Franklin's story, but he mildly participates in some of those activities like kidnapping a balla member and then going on a deal only to be f*cked over with. So you expected too much and misinterpereted the trailer. Also Rockstar even said he wanted to get away from the gang life, how can you not have understood that? You truly are disabled in the head.

[JustOneMonth]

^

 

It was clearly stated that this was not a fresh idea as SA and IV have already went over. Are you stupid? Who said anything about the corrupt FIB's being a new plot? Well, technically it is because they didn't randomly start ordering you to work for them like dogs. So in a sense, IT IS NEW. The fact that the FIB was personally involved with Michael and Trevor bought SOMETHING new to this GTA. In San Andreas, Toreno wasn't personally working with CJ, he was using him as a lapdog considering you have to kill him after wards as he tries to run away. And IV admittedly uses it differently.

 

 

Again with the name calling, YOU are the stupid one here. I was talking to niko bellic half brother.

[Smith John]

@General

 

Did you even read my last response to you? Evidently not it seems.

 

Also I couldn't help but notice your reply to 'spamtackey'. He made a completely ligitimate, accurate, and valid point to your argument about R* apparently misleading us with Franklins trailer - completely ignoring that everything in that trailer can be done. And you simply respond with..."Sorry, still don't agree with you"? You're just coming across as somebody who is incredibly bitter that they didn't get enough hood action in the game bro.

[spamtackey]

@ Franklin

 

You're the f*cking idiot. On top of that, you're just being blindly ignorant to facts and reasonable conclusions.

 

Okay, whatever you say, Rockstar did not mislead us about gangs. Yeah, you're right, I'm stupid and so are the rest for ever believing that gangs were gonna play a significant part in the game, despite Franklin's trailer clearly showing otherwise

 

It's one thing to argue and have different personal opinions, but it's another thing to be totally ignorant and blind to the other side of the argument when reasonable evidence and facts are presented. In this case, I give up. You think what you wanna think, I got nothing more to say on this.

 

@ spamtackey

 

Sorry, still don't agree with you. Same response as I gave to Franklin, without the aggression though.

 

@ niko bellic half brother

 

If you wanna continue having a decent, uninterrupted argument with me about this, then stop heading down the road to confrontation. You appear to be doing that by constantly referencing to my alleged bias towards gang stuff in GTA 9which is not entirely true). You don't need to go there, lets focus on the argument at hand.

 

I just thought of something, so forgive me if I sound like I'm going back on my words or something here. The thought literally popped in my mind as I was writing a different response.

 

Franklin's story is about gangs and Franklin's trailer accurately represents this. What it doesn't represent is how much influence Franklin's story has on the overall game. Rockstar were hyping a story with three main characters with their own stories. They never said it outright, but one would expect an equal focus on each of these characters and we didn't really get that. I made a thread where I outlined how I would have had Franklin's story go and it involved more gang activities, not because I liked San Andreas and gang activities, but rather because Franklin's story was already about gangs and giving him more of a focus (attempting to give him as much focus as Michael) pushed more of the gang stuff into the game.

 

So in that way I can see how Rockstar misrepresented the story. Even then, they misrepresented the story a lot worse by telling us that the theme is "The hunt for the dollar", which wasn't really present.

Edited November 7, 2013 by spamtackey

[Smith John]

I'm just going to leave this here again since it went completely ignored the first time I posted it:

 

"As for your point about the government corruption stuff not being fresh; you're saying the same thing that 'gtarules_95' said, and as I told him, those things were minor elements of past GTA's. Now it is its turn to take the spotlight. Kind of like how the 'gangsta' stuff had the spotlight in SA, now it is its turn to take a backseat."

[spamtackey]

I'm just going to leave this here again since it went completely ignored the first time I posted it:

 

"As for your point about the government corruption stuff not being fresh; you're saying the same thing that 'gtarules_95' said, and as I told him, those things were minor elements of past GTA's. Now it is its turn to take the spotlight. Kind of like how the 'gangsta' stuff had the spotlight in SA, now it is its turn to take a backseat."

 

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. GTA V is Michael's story with supporting roles from Trevor and Franklin. Trevor's TP Industries and war with the lost along with Franklin's gang war with the Ballas are subplots and not main plots. They take the background while the main story is about Michael, his deal with the FIB, and dealing with his past betrayal of Trevor.

 

Maybe they could have given equal focus to the characters, but it's not really a requirement.

Edited November 7, 2013 by spamtackey

[woggleman]

I must admit also that I did sort of have an issue with Michael being a snitch. That is the cardinal sin in the criminal world and for somebody with gang ties and a violent drug dealer to not really have a problem with that seems very unrealistic. I chose ending C but I would not blame Trevor one bit if he killed him. It's his fault Brad is dead. MIchael is a very well written character but as a person I found him the least likable. He is a hypocrite who cheated on his wife first yet flips when she does the same and I have switched to him at times to see him treating the staff at the studio like they are beneath him.

[spamtackey]

I must admit also that I did sort of have an issue with Michael being a snitch. That is the cardinal sin in the criminal world and for somebody with gang ties and a violent drug dealer to not really have a problem with that seems very unrealistic. I chose ending C but I would not blame Trevor one bit if he killed him. It's his fault Brad is dead. MIchael is a very well written character but as a person I found him the least likable. He is a hypocrite who cheated on his wife first yet flips when she does the same and I have switched to him at times to see him treating the staff at the studio like they are beneath him.

 

Michael is human. He cheated on his wife but she retaliated by cheating on him tenfold. The list Jimmy and Tracy give is downright disturbing to me because it implies that the affair happened many years ago and whether Michael has cheated on her since is really up to the player. For me, Michael only cheated the one time and it was off-screen and Amanda has been cheating on him since. It's not like they don't love each other or sleep with each other. Early in the game if you hang out with Amanda she tells Michael he needs to stop drinking and mentions that it has an effect on their sex life. Both of them need to forgive each other and do better and Michael wants to do that near the end of the story. He's still a bit of a jerk, but who isn't in GTA?

 

Trevor does not want to kill Michael. He wants to be best friends again. It's likely that Michael is the only true friend that Trevor ever had. He tries to get over it but he has to force new friends to stay with him by ruining their lives and supplying them with drugs. Ron is a weak-willed person with no concept of self-worth and Wade is somewhat mentally retarded. They're not a replacement for the friendship that Michael gave Trevor. I bet Trevor wanted to run right up to Michael and give him a big hug, but of course he didn't. He's also rightfully pissed because Michael ratted them out and betrayed him. Trevor is likely very conflicted about whether he wants to kill Michael or not. Even to the end of the story we see that Trevor would likely become even worse of a wreck if Michael died again. Look how quickly he lost his sense of humor after the whole North Yankton incident. Maybe this isn't realistic in real-life crime, but it made for a great story IMO.

 

You also imply that Franklin is loyal. He pretty much abandons the gang stuff for his life of luxury. He would have let Lamar die if not for Tanisha begging him to go save Lamar. That's not the qualities of someone who would have an issue with a snitch.

Edited November 7, 2013 by spamtackey

[Drunken Cowboy]

I'd like to reiterate for the ten trillionth time that it's not that Johnny, Terry, Clay, and dozens of mook-status Lost members died or even that we killed, them, it's the manner in which their deaths were presented and Rockstar just lazily and half-assedly assuming we'd take in their anticipated way.

They didn't need to be brought back. It pissed off people who played and valued TLaD, and anyone who disliked or didn't play TLaD didn't really give a damn.

[Niobium]

I'd like to reiterate for the ten trillionth time that it's not that Johnny, Terry, Clay, and dozens of mook-status Lost members died or even that we killed, them, it's the manner in which their deaths were presented and Rockstar just lazily and half-assedly assuming we'd take in their anticipated way.

They didn't need to be brought back. It pissed off people who played and valued TLaD, and anyone who disliked or didn't play TLaD didn't really give a damn.

ugh it feels pointless to repeat it again. if they didn't understand it the trillionth time we said it chances are they won't understand it the quadrillionth time either.

[Drunken Cowboy]

 

 

 

And no I don't agree with you again, the best, most explosive missions in V in my view, were the ones that had nothing to do with cops and government agents.

 

* Franklin and Lamar's failed drug deal with the Ballas, with Trevor coming along.

* The very first heist at the jewelry store.

* Last heist for the gold bars at the United Depository.

* Trevor's battle with the Aztecas drug gang in Sandy Shores.

 

 

Easily some of the best missions: Made sense to do them (as much sense GTA can provide in general), outcomes were emotionally satisfying or actually rewarded you in-game, and they were just loads of good fun focused around one of the game's strongest mechanic of just shooting guys in the face.

There's no need to make us drive a damn submarine just because you can, I thought with player switching would come total freedom. Maybe I want to just shoot guys my whole heist? Maybe I wanna stealth and sneak my way past everyone? NOPE! THANKS, C*!

[Drunken Cowboy]

I'm just going to leave this here again since it went completely ignored the first time I posted it:

 

"As for your point about the government corruption stuff not being fresh; you're saying the same thing that 'gtarules_95' said, and as I told him, those things were minor elements of past GTA's. Now it is its turn to take the spotlight. Kind of like how the 'gangsta' stuff had the spotlight in SA, now it is its turn to take a backseat."

 

But... we had THREE protagonists, that's the SOOPER AWSUM thing about this game, right?

Why did they ALL have to follow the same story? I'm not saying it was a bad idea, I just disliked the rushed and occasionally lack-luster integration of it. Also, just another point of support that the switch-wheel is just a tease, an ILLUSION of choice and diversity.

[woggleman]

I really do wish the Paleto Bay heist had nothing to do with the feds. It would have been great if Michael and Trevor were trapped in the country and needed money so they hit up a small town bank. It is still one of my favorite missions.

[rovert]

They should not be friends with each other, like the GTA IV trinity. Crossing paths multiple times even some gunfight, evasion and a little tension along the way until one final mission forces them to stick to one another.

 

dafuq did I just say?

[KGBeast]

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.

 

This is what bothers me. They just did everything in their power to pander to kids who think San Andreas and Saints Row are the end all be all of sandbox games, and that GTA should be about stealing a jetpack to grab alien goo. It felt like Rockstar becoming the very thing they have parodied in the past. Not to say I don't love the game, but there were serious flaws.

[Official General]

@General

 

Did you even read my last response to you? Evidently not it seems.

 

Also I couldn't help but notice your reply to 'spamtackey'. He made a completely ligitimate, accurate, and valid point to your argument about R* apparently misleading us with Franklins trailer - completely ignoring that everything in that trailer can be done. And you simply respond with..."Sorry, still don't agree with you"? You're just coming across as somebody who is incredibly bitter that they didn't get enough hood action in the game bro.

 

@ niko

 

Ha, you played yourself. Lol look at how foolish you look now. You looked to spamtackey for support for your argument and now it turns out that he's actually changed his mind and agreed with me about the fact that Rockstar had clearly and falsely advertised Franklin's story as being centered around gangs.

 

The reason I responded to him with that short reply was because it would have been the same reply as I gave to FranklinDeRoosvelt, and I clearly highlighted that. Of course I'm bitter that there was not enough hood action the game, that's the reason I'm here complaining and arguing. I never once denied this. Tell me what I already know, durrrr.....

 

Anyway, you seem to be interested in only discussing my alleged bias towards gang stuff and you are only too eager to preach your anti-gang stuff response as you always are. Me and you have had conflict many times in this area, and while I don't normally mind engaging in it, I'm not in this discussion for that. I've politely asked you to stop going down that road, but you cannot help yourself it seems. Either you acknowledge this and focus on the main issue we are discussing here, or we can leave it at that.

 

@ spamtackey

 

 

I just thought of something, so forgive me if I sound like I'm going back on my words or something here. The thought literally popped in my mind as I was writing a different response.

Franklin's story is about gangs and Franklin's trailer accurately represents this. What it doesn't represent is how much influence Franklin's story has on the overall game. Rockstar were hyping a story with three main characters with their own stories. They never said it outright, but one would expect an equal focus on each of these characters and we didn't really get that. I made a thread where I outlined how I would have had Franklin's story go and it involved more gang activities, not because I liked San Andreas and gang activities, but rather because Franklin's story was already about gangs and giving him more of a focus (attempting to give him as much focus as Michael) pushed more of the gang stuff into the game.

So in that way I can see how Rockstar misrepresented the story. Even then, they misrepresented the story a lot worse by telling us that the theme is "The hunt for the dollar", which wasn't really present.

 

I'm glad you can finally see sense and see my point. FranklinDR is just being plain ignorant to all of this because he knows he's talking bulls*t, and all niko bellic half brother wants to do is harp on with his anti-gang remarks.

 

And I agree with your other point. Rockstar had me very baffled too on their claim that the theme of GTA V was the pursuit of the almighty dollar that they advertised. This was really lost on me, as I hardly felt that in the game at all. The 'fresh idea' cop/government bullsh*t that certain people keep promoting on here was what ruined that pursuit of the dollar feel in the first place. How are you gonna feel like you are pursuing riches, when most of your heists are being done on the orders of corrupt cops and agents who boss you around like your are their lapdog and also shortchange you in the process ?? Pursuit of the dollar ?? More like a b*tch errand boy for the feds.

 

@ FranklinDeRoosvelt

 

 

Also Rockstar even said he wanted to get away from the gang life, how can you not have understood that? You truly are disabled in the head.

 

Once again, you showcase your ignorance and stupidity in this discussion. Rockstar NEVER once stated that Franklin wanted to get away from the gang life. Rockstar officially stated that Franklin is " a gangbanger in a post-gangbanging world " and I'm sure you know what that means right ? It means he is STILL in a gang. All that meant was that Franklin wanted to move on to be bigger and better criminal activities (heists) that would make him big money fast, and that he no longer had any interest in the lower-level street stuff that his gang was still into. He was and still is part of the Families gang, the game's events clearly shows this, he rocks gang colors, he shouts out his gang's name when he shoots at rival gangs, and he still hangs out with Lamar.

 

Looks like you're the one who cannot understand the game properly.

 

@ gtarules_95

 

Yeah I agree, in the next GTA, I would just rather a classic, rags-to-riches story with one protagonists and maybe later episodic DLC with more protagonists later like GTA IV+Episodes. The poor storyline structure of GTA V has not got me convinced that the multiple protagonist thing works out very well.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Official General

[ColdHearted]

I blame this backlash on false advertising and like you rightly said they made Franklin's trailers look like San Andreas on steroids and a whole lot more but it was more like Barney & Friends with guns, my dick could write a better story than what they wrote for Franklin even his name was f*cking pathetic, Franklin Clinton ?.... Sounds like a super hero from the 1800's and I disagree about Trevor, without him the game would have been about as fun as watching Obama give a speech, but I feel like they false advertised him just as much as Franklin because they made it seem as though a large part of his story would be about building a criminal empire like Tommy but a redneck version instead of an Italian Scarface but all we really got from Trevor was an actual copy & paste HD version of Smugglers Run, a game that was released 13 years ago on the PS2 by you guessed it, ROCKSTAR GAMES.

 

I think one of the main problems is R* are the type of people that take pride in constant innovation unlike COD which is obviously a good thing but they take it way too far and felt that making Franklin a gangster like CJ from the same city in the same gang would get bad press for repetitiveness even though it was the most popular and fun GTA and there's THREE f*cking characters, what I'm worried about is if they've learned their lesson this time, but then again that's what I thought would happen after the bowling and driving simulator IV came out, if they keep this bullsh*t up I dont think they're gonna survive with Next-Gen coming out, they better think fast.

[spamtackey]

 

@General

 

Did you even read my last response to you? Evidently not it seems.

 

Also I couldn't help but notice your reply to 'spamtackey'. He made a completely ligitimate, accurate, and valid point to your argument about R* apparently misleading us with Franklins trailer - completely ignoring that everything in that trailer can be done. And you simply respond with..."Sorry, still don't agree with you"? You're just coming across as somebody who is incredibly bitter that they didn't get enough hood action in the game bro.

 

@ niko

 

Ha, you played yourself. Lol look at how foolish you look now. You looked to spamtackey for support for your argument and now it turns out that he's actually changed his mind and agreed with me about the fact that Rockstar had clearly and falsely advertised Franklin's story as being centered around gangs.

 

The reason I responded to him with that short reply was because it would have been the same reply as I gave to FranklinDeRoosvelt, and I clearly highlighted that. Of course I'm bitter that there was not enough hood action the game, that's the reason I'm here complaining and arguing. I never once denied this. Tell me what I already know, durrrr.....

 

Anyway, you seem to be interested in only discussing my alleged bias towards gang stuff and you are only too eager to preach your anti-gang stuff response as you always are. Me and you have had conflict many times in this area, and while I don't normally mind engaging in it, I'm not in this discussion for that. I've politely asked you to sto going down that road, but you cannot help yourself it seems. Either you acknowledge this and focus on the main issue we are discussing here, or we can leave it at that.

 

@ FranklinDeRoosvelt

 

 

 

Also Rockstar even said he wanted to get away from the gang life, how can you not have understood that? You truly are disabled in the head.

 

Once again, you showcase your ignorance and stupidity in this discussion. Rockstar NEVER once stated that Franklin wanted to get away from the gang life. Rockstar officially stated that Franklin is " a gangbanger in a post-gangbanging world " and I'm sure you know what that means right ? All that meant was that Franklin wanted to move on to be bigger and better criminal activities (heists) that would make him big money fast, and that he no longer had any interest in the lower-level street stuff that his gang was still into. He was and still is part of the Families gang.

 

Looks like you're the one who cannot understand the game properly.

 

@ gtarules_95

 

Yeah I agree, in the next GTA, I would just rather a classic, rags-to-riches story with one protagonists and maybe later episodic DLC with more protagonists later like GTA IV+Episodes. The poor storyline structure of GTA V has not got me convinced that the multiple protagonist thing works out very well.

 

 

I don't think you read my reply correctly. I said that Rockstar correctly advertised Franklin's story as revolving around gangs and didn't lie about it. They didn't make it clear that each character would not get the same screen time or amount of development. They made it seem like Trevor and Franklin were going to be main characters equal to Michael but really Michael was the main character and Franklin and Trevor were supporting characters. Everything in Franklin's trailer is still in the game, but the game itself does not revolve around Franklin.

[Niobium]

How can anyone hate Trevor? He's the best one! He's the only character who has a bit of, well, character right from the moment he appears. He's the one who is honest and reliable and comes through for the other 2. His killing of Johnny whatshisface was just for the story or else how would they have triggered the bikers vendetta against Trevor? The bikers had to go anyway(The Lost and Damned wasn't really the most exciting) - bunch of meth-head junkies!

 

Michael is a two faced manipulative a-hole who is too far up his own backside and has a horrible family,

who only lived as I wanted to go after all the bad guys. If it wasn't for that he'd have been dropped off that chimney every time!

His only redeaming feature is.......I'll think of something.

 

 

[Official General]

@ spamtackey

 

I read your reply properly and you said :

 

Franklin's story is about gangs and Franklin's trailer accurately represents this. What it doesn't represent is how much influence Franklin's story has on the overall game. Rockstar were hyping a story with three main characters with their own stories. They never said it outright, but one would expect an equal focus on each of these characters and we didn't really get that.

 

So in that way I can see how Rockstar misrepresented the story.

 

That was really all that was needed to support my argument, as that was the point I was making. Your statement pretty much supported that, along with the other relevant stuff. You don't need to go into such minute detail and over analyze everything.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Official General

[Magic_Al]

I really appreciate the depth of this topic. I could comment on a lot of it but for right now I'll limit myself to agreeing that how you experience weapons and health in GTAV seems really random and unbalanced from both gameplay and story/character perspectives.

 

I think it was a mistake to change the rules so players never lose weapons. GTAV keeps the traditional failure modes: hospitalization and arrest, but keeping your weapons through these makes no sense. They got it right in older games when you lost them. Losing only your ammo and armor is such an arbitrary compromise. It's like something a government committee would come up with to please nobody. Previous GTAs would let you earn ways to never lose your weapons but only after establishing the norm of losing them.

 

I miss the multiple ways to buy weapons from GTAIV. It was nice to have an arms dealing friend who had a certain selection, and then the gun shops that had a different selection, and another friend who left other weapons for you to pick up. It felt very underworld and somewhat realistic, because it acknowledged that some of these weapons are illegal and hard to get. GTAV goes back to a fantasy of Ammu-nation chain stores in a world with no weapons laws at all.

 

The points made about the different economic classes of weapons in GTA IV are very valid, and they don't apply to GTAV because GTAV is a world of unlimited weaponry. Sure, It's fun to have every weapon all the time, but since you never lose a weapon Ammu-nation is almost irrelevant. The game is just one step away from simply adding weapons to your inventory when they're unlocked so you don't even have to go to the store.

 

As for health, the decisions made about regenerating health and removing interactive food stands and restaurants, while adding convenience stores, and keeping soda machines even though they're functionally the same as food stands, all seem arbitrary. Maybe the artists who have been working on every GTA since forever couldn't stand to design restaurant interiors again because those are pretty repetitive designs. Maybe they were just tired of food stands. Who knows?

[spamtackey]

@ spamtackey

 

I read your reply and you said :

 

 

So in that way I can see how Rockstar misrepresented the story.

 

That was really all that was needed to support my argument, and along with the other relevant stuff, you pretty much did just that. You don't to go into such minute detail.

 

You said:

 

"Ha, you played yourself. Lol look at how foolish you look now. You looked to spamtackey for support for your argument and now it turns out that he's actually changed his mind and agreed with me about the fact that Rockstar had clearly and falsely advertised Franklin's story as being centered around gangs. "

 

I never said that. I never agreed with that. Any point you make after that fact becomes irrelevant because you failed to understand those "minute details". You're debating with him over this and in a debate the details do matter.

 

Because I can, I'm going to examine my earlier post. Read it if you like don't if you don't like. I'll try to rewrite it to sound better and more adequately explain my thoughts.

 

"I just thought of something, so forgive me if I sound like I'm going back on my words or something here. The thought literally popped in my mind as I was writing a different response."

 

The reason I wrote this was because I knew it would sound like I was changing my mind, but I wasn't. I was apologizing for potentially sounding like it was because I had just thought of something that I wanted to bring up.

"Franklin's story is about gangs and Franklin's trailer accurately represents this. "

Rockstar did not misrepresent Franklin's story in Franklin's trailer.

"What it doesn't represent is how much influence Franklin's story has on the overall game."

Rockstar misrepresented the entire story by building up all three characters as being equal. Michael has the most development. Trevor is a secondary lead in that story (due to having a stake in the main conflict) and Franklin is a supporting role.

"Rockstar were hyping a story with three main characters with their own stories. They never said it outright, but one would expect an equal focus on each of these characters and we didn't really get that."

Maybe they weren't hyping them all as main characters with their own story, but that's what I took from the advertising. That's what I took from their using 3 characters. They didn't make Packie and Brucie playable in GTA IV because they were supporting characters, so I expected all three mains to have equal development and time.

"I made a thread where I outlined how I would have had Franklin's story go and it involved more gang activities, not because I liked San Andreas and gang activities, but rather because Franklin's story was already about gangs and giving him more of a focus (attempting to give him as much focus as Michael) pushed more of the gang stuff into the game. "

This was there to explain how I came to my conclusion. When I tried to expand Franklin's role I gave gangs more of a presence. His story, as represented by Rockstar, is about gangs.

"So in that way I can see how Rockstar misrepresented the story. Even then, they misrepresented the story a lot worse by telling us that the theme is "The hunt for the dollar", which wasn't really present. "

I can see that they made Franklin seem like a bigger character than he was, which I feel misrepresents the story as a whole. Worse though, I did not see much 'hunting for dollars' in GTA V despite that supposedly being the theme they developed the game to (to the point where the logo was inspired by money).

[Official General]

@ spamtackey

 

It's late over here, and I'm gonna retire soon......

 

 

I can see that they made Franklin seem like a bigger character than he was, which I feel misrepresents the story as a whole. Worse though, I did not see much 'hunting for dollars' in GTA V despite that supposedly being the theme they developed the game to (to the point where the logo was inspired by money).

 

For f**k sake your above quote is the exactly the point I'm making here, for the second time, you have agreed with me. I already said I'm not interested in the detailed ins and outs, the overall point I made, you have supported. Look, it is above in your very quote. You cannot go back on your words, I've quoted you already. You will just end up looking very stupid.

 

Really, just leave it at that.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Official General

[woggleman]

I think the weapon system is a vast improvement. If you want a certain weapon and you have purchased it go to your wheel and it is there. Certain situations call for different weapons and this features helps a lot.

[spamtackey]

@ spamtackey

 

It's late over here, and I'm gonna retire soon......

 

 

I can see that they made Franklin seem like a bigger character than he was, which I feel misrepresents the story as a whole. Worse though, I did not see much 'hunting for dollars' in GTA V despite that supposedly being the theme they developed the game to (to the point where the logo was inspired by money).

 

For f**k sake your above quote is the exact argument I'm making here, for the second time, you have agreed with me. I already said I'm not interested in the ins and outs, the overall point I made, you have supported. It is above in your very quote. You cannot go back on your words, I've quoted you already. You will just end up looking very stupid.

 

Look, just leave it at that.

 

I haven't altered my posts*, so I don't see why it matters that you quoted me. People can go back and read my stupidity. It's not like I'm claiming to be the smartest and most consistent person in the world here.

 

The only reason we kept arguing was because you put words in my mouth. We came to the same conclusion that Rockstar misrepresented GTA V, but the details are different. You directly talk about the hood stuff and I'm talking about the role of Franklin. They are connected but they are not the same thing. I can't come up with a way to expand Franklin's role without adding more gang stuff, but if Rockstar did then I wouldn't have a problem with the smaller focus on gang stuff.

 

 

*I have actually altered some posts to fix some typos and to add a few points on, but once I get the message finalized I don't edit it. I will not be going back to edit posts to take out sentences that you quoted.

Edited November 8, 2013 by spamtackey

[woggleman]

 

I see what you are saying they obviously went out of their way not to make V dark and gritty like IV because complained a lot. Some parts seem like blatant pandering to IV haters and sometimes even pandering to Saints Row fans. I still love the game though.

 

This is what bothers me. They just did everything in their power to pander to kids who think San Andreas and Saints Row are the end all be all of sandbox games, and that GTA should be about stealing a jetpack to grab alien goo. It felt like Rockstar becoming the very thing they have parodied in the past. Not to say I don't love the game, but there were serious flaws.

 

Because the outcry against IV was very very loud and Rockstar responded to it. Playing the game you can tell the difference between what they really wanted to do and what they did to pander to this crowd. It's very obvious. I hope next time around they just make the game they want and people like it or they don't.