GTA Online End User License Agreement

[Daos Draxon]

From a legal standpoint it's unclear whether or not using any glitches is a violation of the EULA for GTA Online. It says that cheating is a violation, so I guess it would have to be determined if using glitches is cheating or not.

[Blarfus]

LICENSE CONDITIONS

You agree not to:

 

1. commercially exploit the Software;
2. distribute, lease, license, sell, rent, convert into convertible currency, or otherwise transfer or assign the Software, or any copies of the Software, including but not limited to Virtual Goods or Virtual Currency (defined below) without the express prior written consent of Licensor or as expressly set forth in this Agreement;
3. make a copy of the Software or any part thereof (other than as set forth herein);
4. make a copy of the Software available on a network for use or download by multiple users;
5. except as otherwise specifically provided by the Software or this Agreement, use or install the Software (or permit others to do same) on a network, for on-line use, or on more than one computer or gaming unit at the same time;
6. copy the Software onto a hard drive or other storage device in order to bypass the requirement to run the Software from the included CD-ROM or DVD-ROM (this prohibition does not apply to copies in whole or in part that may be made by the Software itself during installation in order to run more efficiently);
7. use or copy the Software at a computer gaming center or any other location-based site; provided, that Licensor may offer you a separate license agreement to make the Software available for commercial use;
8. reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, display, perform, prepare derivative works based on, or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;
9. remove or modify any proprietary notices, marks, or labels contained on or within the Software;
10. restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying any online features of the Software;
11. cheat or utilize any unauthorized robot, spider, or other program in connection with any online features of the Software;
12. violate any terms, policies, licenses, or code of conduct for any online features of the Software; or
13. transport, export, or re-export (directly or indirectly) into any country forbidden to receive the Software by any U.S. export laws or regulations or U.S. economic sanctions or otherwise violate any laws or regulations, or the laws of the country in which the Software was obtained, which may be amended from time to time.

Where is it unclear?

Edit. Oh I get what you're saying now. Yes because it doesn't specifically say exploiting code glitches.

I think its ambiguity is intentional so that it can be interpreted differently for different situations as this EULA covers more than GTA V. But what do I know.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Blarfus

[Daos Draxon]

It may seem obvious, but it depends on whether or not R* sees using glitches as cheating, as well as whether or not the courts agree with them.

[Phyxsius-]

Because you will totally go to court against Rockstar.

 

Tell you what: wait for them to put you in a cheater lobby, then sue them. Until then, please have a warm shut the f*ck up, both you and your lawyer couch.

[Sticky Pads]

Putting people in a cheater lobby is not the same as banning their accounts.

[Itsagimp]

When you use an exploit that wasn't intentionally put in the game, like the car selling glitch that let's people make millions within a day.. Yes that's clearly cheating the system.

 

Most naive exploiters are in denial

[Daos Draxon]

@Phyxsius

 

Except that I have not cheated or used any glitches. You shouldn't assume things my friend, you just make an ass of yourself. It's rude people like you that make forum goers look like ignorant, socially awkward rejects.

[Ballistic_BG]

lol @ number 10, me having money does not effect other players's enjoyment of the game. if anything it makes mother f*ckers attack me just because they are jelly so scratch that one off. if anything me having money makes them have more fun killing me for no reason.

[Ginobili137]

When you use an exploit that wasn't intentionally put in the game, like the car selling glitch that let's people make millions within a day.. Yes that's clearly cheating the system.

 

Most naive exploiters are in denial

"cheating the system" is not the same as using cheats

[Blarfus]

 

When you use an exploit that wasn't intentionally put in the game, like the car selling glitch that let's people make millions within a day.. Yes that's clearly cheating the system.

 

Most naive exploiters are in denial

"cheating the system" is not the same as using cheats

 

Except the players don't get to choose how the EULA is interpreted.

 

[Phyxsius-]

@Phyxsius

 

Except that I have not cheated or used any glitches. You shouldn't assume things my friend, you just make an ass of yourself. It's rude people like you that make forum goers look like ignorant, socially awkward rejects.

You should join Greenpeace. It is rare to see such civic spirit against the corporate sharks and towards gamer rights.

 

Also, the user above me is right: "Except the players don't get to choose how the EULA is interpreted.". Rockstar will decide what they deem as cheats and act as such. And it IS their right to do so.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Phyxsius-

[Itsagimp]

 

 

When you use an exploit that wasn't intentionally put in the game, like the car selling glitch that let's people make millions within a day.. Yes that's clearly cheating the system.

 

Most naive exploiters are in denial

"cheating the system" is not the same as using cheats

My point exactly, denial

[Ginobili137]

 

 

When you use an exploit that wasn't intentionally put in the game, like the car selling glitch that let's people make millions within a day.. Yes that's clearly cheating the system.

 

Most naive exploiters are in denial

"cheating the system" is not the same as using cheats

My point exactly, denial

 

I am telling you why you are wrong...You might as well say 2 people who are doing the same race over and over are cheating

[Daos Draxon]

I don't give a crap what happens. The only reason I made this thread was as an attempt to stop some of the nonsense arguing about whether or not there will be bans/resets. My whole point was that the only people that knows what will happen is R*, and they aren't saying anything about it as of yet.

[NXKS]

Guys I want to refer you to this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

 

 

 

It clearly says "Exploits have never been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial".

 

BTW I didn't use the exploit, I just don't argue a point because I want, I look at the facts.

Edited October 14, 2013 by NXKS

[Blarfus]

 

 

 

When you use an exploit that wasn't intentionally put in the game, like the car selling glitch that let's people make millions within a day.. Yes that's clearly cheating the system.

 

Most naive exploiters are in denial

"cheating the system" is not the same as using cheats

My point exactly, denial

 

I am telling you why you are wrong...You might as well say 2 people who are doing the same race over and over are cheating

 

 

Not to start an argument, but rockstar support has said farming is ok, exploit is not.

 

"For this, I'd say to use your best judgment. Anything that feels like an exploit is an exploit--For the LS car reselling, that is definitely an exploit that is being patched out.[/size]

Players just "playing the game" or doing missions are not considered exploits. There may be some missions players farm like crazy for a huge payout and RP boost that will be adjusted to keep the economy in balance, but players that repeat those missions while they pay out huge are not exploiting. They are just farming one particular mission.

Players that use exploits are easy to find, and repeat offenses may result in a ban to the cheater pool, which works similarly to the cheater pool introduced in Max Payne 3.

Please ask any other questions here about bannable offenses. If you'd like clarity on any piece mentioned"

 

and

 

Indeed--Grinding is grinding. It's not considered an exploit by us if you'd like to replay a mission 100 times. Everyone has fun in games in different ways--some players enjoy deathmatches and running around in free roam, and others want every possible unlock as soon as possible.

For those players you suspect to be legitimately using expoits, please report them via the in-game pause menu or by emailing [email protected].

[Phyxsius-]

I am telling you why you are wrong...You might as well say 2 people who are doing the same race over and over are cheating

 

 

Cheating is generally any method of gaining an unfair advantage and/or use a game mechanic in a way that it was never designed for.

 

And what you are describing is farming. I`ll explain:

 

1. 2 friends using replay function of a race are just farming it, by using the game mechanics as they are presented.

2. 2 friends using replay function by any other method than as it is presented by the game - either by direct replay button, or by mission marker are cheating.

 

I oversimplified the examples to prove a point. No point in splitting hairs with the above.

 

Guys I want to refer you to this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

 

 

 

It clearly says "Exploits have never been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial".

 

BTW I didn't use the exploit, I just don't argue a point because I want, I look at the facts.

Controversial as a general rule. Rockstar will likely define internally what cheating is and/or what they consider cheating and inform the playerbase. Said playerbase will then have a choice.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Phyxsius-

[MrDanielPrice]

I don't think, legally speaking, that glitching is classed as cheating. Glitches are something that Rockstar technically put in the game, therefore they could even be seen as a feature. I would say that cheaters are people who hack the game to change properties in their favour (example: make themselves invincible).

[Blarfus]

I don't think, legally speaking, that glitching is classed as cheating. Glitches are something that Rockstar technically put in the game, therefore they could even be seen as a feature. I would say that cheaters are people who hack the game to change properties in their favour (example: make themselves invincible).

 

See my post above, sir. I believe you are mistaken.

[Kulgrim]

Read the XBox Terms, it actually clearly states using software issues to your advantage, so according to at least Microsoft, using bugs is cheating. I can also tell you that for the game I work on, using ingame bugs to exploit the system is a bannable offense, and that we have banned people for using them. However if you wish to continue viewing a code error as completely okay to abuse then by all means do so, but please do not act as if exploiting bugs has never had a precendent for bans in any game.

[adra12]

None of this matters because the determination of whether you have broken the EULA is solely Rockstars. They can ban you for anything any time (even from single player) and in most countries you will have absolutely no legal power to do anything. Software User Agreements basically make the developers god's because they are considered intellectual property that you are renting indefinitely.

[Phyxsius-]

I don't think, legally speaking, that glitching is classed as cheating. Glitches are something that Rockstar technically put in the game, therefore they could even be seen as a feature. I would say that cheaters are people who hack the game to change properties in their favour (example: make themselves invincible).

Using any game mechanic outside its intended use is glitching. Glitching is cheating. REPEATED glitching that is. If you do it once by mistake, you are safe. If you do it 5000000 times you are abusing it.

[Frank Brown]

I don't think, legally speaking, that glitching is classed as cheating. Glitches are something that Rockstar technically put in the game, therefore they could even be seen as a feature. I would say that cheaters are people who hack the game to change properties in their favour (example: make themselves invincible).

Rockstar can ban whoever they deem a cheater. Legally speaking.

[Itsagimp]

No doing the same thing over and over is farming. That's not cheating nor was it ever ' not suppose to be in the game ' .. Those missions just were not balanced and rockstar can't and won't ban people for that. It's a balance issue that they continue to find and patch. Is it lame people would do same over and over , yah in my books but it's not punishable.

 

But when rockstar implements a system where u can't sell a car over and over for a lot of money, yet you find an exploit / glitch that let's you sell the car over and over for millions in a day.. That is cheating. You have a choice to use that cheat or exploit. You choose to do it then you are cheating as you are glitching the game in order to make an abundance of money vs not

[Kulgrim]

I don't think, legally speaking, that glitching is classed as cheating. Glitches are something that Rockstar technically put in the game, therefore they could even be seen as a feature. I would say that cheaters are people who hack the game to change properties in their favour (example: make themselves invincible).

Rockstar did not put the bug in the game intentionally, a bug is a conflict between peices of code that has an unforseen consequence. Players then uncovering said issue, and abusing the living hell out of it is indeed cheating.

[Ginobili137]

 

I am telling you why you are wrong...You might as well say 2 people who are doing the same race over and over are cheating

 

 

Cheating is generally any method of gaining an unfair advantage and/or use a game mechanic in a way that it was never designed for.

 

And what you are describing is farming. I`ll explain:

 

1. 2 friends using replay function of a race are just farming it, by using the game mechanics as they are presented.

2. 2 friends using replay function by any other method than as it is presented by the game - either by direct replay button, or by mission marker are cheating.

 

I oversimplified the examples to prove a point. No point in splitting hairs with the above.

 

So the use of R2 to replay violent duct a week ago was cheating? For all the people using it knew, R* intended for that to be possible. I would never do these car selling glitches, but the people using them should not be punished. People who hack are the only people who should be punished for cheating, even if people who exploit issues in R*'s coding are technically cheating.

[Frank Brown]

 

 

I am telling you why you are wrong...You might as well say 2 people who are doing the same race over and over are cheating

 

 

Cheating is generally any method of gaining an unfair advantage and/or use a game mechanic in a way that it was never designed for.

 

And what you are describing is farming. I`ll explain:

 

1. 2 friends using replay function of a race are just farming it, by using the game mechanics as they are presented.

2. 2 friends using replay function by any other method than as it is presented by the game - either by direct replay button, or by mission marker are cheating.

 

I oversimplified the examples to prove a point. No point in splitting hairs with the above.

 

So the use of R2 to replay violent duct a week ago was cheating? For all the people using it knew, R* intended for that to be possible. I would never do these car selling glitches, but the people using them should not be punished. People who hack are the only people who should be punished for cheating, even if people who exploit issues in R*'s coding are technically cheating.

 

No. Farming is an intended feature. They've stated it before.

[Daos Draxon]

It doesn't matter what any of us "believe", all that matters is what R* says about it and whther or not the courts agree with them. R* isn't going to take action without appropriate legal council first. That's what I was getting at in my OP.

[Phyxsius-]

So the use of R2 to replay violent duct a week ago was cheating? For all the people using it knew, R* intended for that to be possible. I would never do these car selling glitches, but the people using them should not be punished. People who hack are the only people who should be punished for cheating, even if people who exploit issues in R*'s coding are technically cheating.

 

 

To me, if a button is not on the screen, I should not have access to it. Hidden access to it is using the software in a way it was not intended. I am cheating in that case.

 

However, logic dictates that Rockstar won`t do anything about it because I am technically using a bug. That is entirely speculation on my part, however. So, let`s call it... lesser cheat . To some extent, it qualifies as farming.

 

However, me duping a bike is a bigger cheat and will likely result in some form of a reprimand, since I am abusing the game now, I am no longer circumventing a bug.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Phyxsius-

[Blarfus]

It doesn't matter what any of us "believe", all that matters is what R* says about it and whther or not the courts agree with them. R* isn't going to take action without appropriate legal council first. That's what I was getting at in my OP.

 

I don't understand where courts come into this. You agreed to a EULA, that can be interpreted by the owner of the IP (Rockstar) and they can ban or not ban you at their discretion. No court involved.