American Goverment shutdown

[ZeeKid2k10]

What happen if they don't agree on anything by October 17th

[Otter]

The terrorists win.

[TheGodDamnMaster]

I don't know. I say let it happen and face the music already, raising the debt ceiling is only digging a deeper hole.

 

Although f*ck the republicans for starting this over a god damn health care bill that already passed. What a bunch of selfish c*nts.

[Moonshield]

The terrorists win.

 

Too late.

[WinterEdit]

Then Russia becomes the only superpower in the world and everyone is forced to drink vodka daily.

[Moth]

The terrorists win.

Already happened.

 

Also, nothing wrong with vodka.

Edited October 14, 2013 by The General

[RoadRunner71]

Then Russia becomes the only superpower in the world and everyone is forced to drink vodka daily.

Yay! Road rage allowed!

[trip]

Then Russia becomes the only superpower in the world and everyone is forced to drink vodka daily.

 

Forced? Ha!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I think everyone has a weird view or story told to them about 'the shutdown'. I'm a government worker. I had to deal with being furloughed back during the original economic crises. Don't believe everything the news is shoving down your throats. Don't fall for the well edited public interest interviews.

[GTA_stu]

trip is actually Joe Biden.

[lil weasel]

China forecloses on the debt.

And if the infrastructure is still there, then all the non-essential employees become redundant.

After all the forests and parks (natural) existed before there was a Federal Government. I expect they will without it.

 

Edited October 14, 2013 by lil weasel

[darthYENIK]

Republicans, Democrats, they're all assholes, and all responsible in someway for this shutdown. But it does fall more on the Republicans' shoulders, being that they are the ones who initiated it.

[trip]

China forecloses on the debt.

And if the infrastructure is still there, then all the non-essential employees become redundant.

After all the forests and parks (natural) existed before there was a Federal Government. I expect they will without it.

 

 

And if all hell breaks loose ,lil weasel, said we could hold up in his bunker.

Canasta at 8pm every night. There has to be some *rules to keep order for heaven sake.

 

Edit:

*laws to rules for better semantics.

Edited October 14, 2013 by trip

[lil weasel]

Heaven can take care of it's self.

I'm sure China will want to protect its investments.

Besides what does 'Law Enforcement or Laws' have to do with reduction of the Federal Government? There was civilization before the Federal Government started assuming Power of the lives of the citizenry in such detail.

Welfare was the responsibility of the Religious and Philanthropists.

Edited October 14, 2013 by lil weasel

[HolyGrenadeFrenzy]

There is no such thing as A New World Order.....and the more times you tell yourself that the more true it becomes.....everyone knows that.

 

The China, Russia, UK, Africa and weak USA claims to the contrary are all fictitious propoganda.

 

Just keep telling yourselves that.

[K^2]

What happen if they don't agree on anything by October 17th

Absolutely nothing. Well, on the 17th, anyways. 17th is the date on which the borrowing limit is reached. After that, whenever the bill comes in to the Treasury, they can't borrow to repay it. Economy is running in deficit, meaning that on average expenses exceed income. However, Treasury is still receiving tax revenue, so it's not like money just magically runs out on the 17th.

 

After 17th, Treasury will keep making any payments they can, but they'll deny payment if the Treasury is dry. No large bills should come in until early November. That's when the first major debt payment is due, and if the debt ceiling isn't raised by then, US will be forced to default.

 

So 17th isn't a real deadline. Real deadline is in early November.

 

What will happen in November if US defaults? US credit rating will decrease, increasing the percentage US has to pay on its international debts. This, of course, will lead to a chain of defaults, driving US economy into the ground. Specifically, dollar will plummet, pulling along with it all of the markets, including international ones, which will cause a major world-wide financial crisis much worse than what we've had recently.

 

 

 

But this is not going to happen. Here is the situation on the table. Republicans have bet everything on Democrats flinching first. Democrats have bet everything on Republicans flinching first. If it was just about the parties, I could believe that they would take that political game of chicken to its unfortunate end.

 

But consider this. Obama is not up for re-election. In terms of political career, he has nothing to lose. If democrats give in, it will be very bad for democrats on the next election, but it's not going to be something we'll remember about Obama. If, however, United States defaults, Obama will forever more be known as the President who allowed it to happen. That's all we'll remember about him in five years. Any of his successes will mean absolutely zip, and him and Nixon will be mentioned as what a PotUS should never be.

 

So Obama will surrender. Republicans know this. Democrats will try to fight it, but it won't matter, because Republicans have majority in the House and with a push from the President, this will pass in Senate as well. Democrats will have egg on their face, Republicans will be the smug assholes they usually are, Obama will get some flack from all sides for a couple of weeks, and then things will be back to normal. Markets will jump back up pretty much immediately, so if you are trading, count on that, Republicans will take 2014 Congress elections getting majority in both chambers, and in 2016 we'll elect a Republican President.

 

That's what's going to happen on the 17th.

[Tyler]

Republicans have a lot to lose if they give up now. The party has been in the midst of a shakeup for the last few years as it is, and if they show that they won't stand toe to toe with Democrats on something this big, they can kiss the House and any chance of presidency good-by. Even then I'm sure some Tea Party members want to see the federal government shut down for longer just to prove that we "don't need it."

 

I've got no idea what the Democrats will do -- I hope they budge so that the default doesn't happen, even if it means a serious change in their possibility of passing the ACA. I mean, I hope both sides budge and stop being total asshats but let's be real that's never going to happen.

[Shyabang Shyabang]

I'm sure that both sides are bluffing. This isn't the first US government shutdown so I'm not highly concerned about the current one.

[Dingdongs]

So Obama will surrender. Republicans know this. Democrats will try to fight it, but it won't matter, because Republicans have majority in the House and with a push from the President, this will pass in Senate as well. Democrats will have egg on their face, Republicans will be the smug assholes they usually are, Obama will get some flack from all sides for a couple of weeks, and then things will be back to normal. Markets will jump back up pretty much immediately, so if you are trading, count on that, Republicans will take 2014 Congress elections getting majority in both chambers, and in 2016 we'll elect a Republican President.

That's what's going to happen on the 17th.

I don't think he will to be honest. He's not going to allow them to push Obamacare off. The key thing you forgot to mention is that the reasons Republicans are trying to push Obamacare off by a year is because that's how long it'll take for people to see the benefits. The meat of the healthcare law takes effect in January of 2014. If the Republicans can successfully push it for a year, the Democrats won't be able to run on having passed a successful bill. Fact is, and Republican leadership knows this, Obamacare's actual provisions are extremely popular amongst the American public, regardless of the law itself not being too popular.

[lil weasel]

National Health Care should be National (Federal). If people are going to be Forced under penalty of Law to Buy something from a Private Corporation knowing most don't need it then it should be a proper tax and provided by the taxer.

The idea that a person must pay for something they can't use for a few years, to build up the 'bank' for a private corporation is a form of theft by extortion.

[K^2]

I don't think he will to be honest. He's not going to allow them to push Obamacare off. The key thing you forgot to mention is that the reasons Republicans are trying to push Obamacare off by a year is because that's how long it'll take for people to see the benefits. The meat of the healthcare law takes effect in January of 2014. If the Republicans can successfully push it for a year, the Democrats won't be able to run on having passed a successful bill. Fact is, and Republican leadership knows this, Obamacare's actual provisions are extremely popular amongst the American public, regardless of the law itself not being too popular.

Reps will accept surrender in other positions. What they are blocking is a clean resolution with unconditional increase in debt ceiling. And they have a point on that, even if I find tactics questionable. They'll let Obama keep Affordable Care Act at a cost of placing some additional spending limits. I'm sure they'll try to leverage these agaisnt ACA at some point in the future, but it will be another battle at another time. For the moment, they'll offer Obama and "Out," and he'll jump on it, because if US defaults Obama will become the most hated President in history and ACA will have to be dropped anyhow with the way economy will go thereafter.

 

And ACA will go belly up one way or another. It's a matter of time. Even assuming that you are right, and maybe it will start to actually work in a year. Even if Republicans don't find a way to stall it, Americans don't have this sort of patience. Right now, all that people are seeing is something that gives them no additional benefits and costs more. They will look for ways to get around it in every way possible, and the system pretty much relies on people going along with it.

 

There is also the fact that if Republicans don't flinch right now, which I can't imagine them doing, they will have Congress in 2014. With people complaining about ACA left and right, Repubilcans will be able to kill it even if, as you say, it starts working.

 

In order to remain in power, ACA needs to start working, as in getting good public support, before Summer 2014, and I don't see that happening.

 

(P.S. Your statement about ACA being popular with public is a bit outdated. ACA support has been plummeting ever since rollout, and by now it has a healthy majority of people opposing it.)

 

 

National Health Care should be National (Federal). If people are going to be Forced under penalty of Law to Buy something from a Private Corporation knowing most don't need it then it should be a proper tax and provided by the taxer.

Now, that I agree with. The whole thing is a thinly veyled attempt to have your cake and eat it. I'm not opposed, in principle, to the idea of general public splitting the bill for the people who are sick and need help. But that's what taxes are for. Except, campaigning on increasing taxes is not very popular, so they promissed not to increase taxes and fund ACA by other means. But that is a lie. It's still a tax, but one that's extorted out of the public using mob tactics.

 

I'm ok with paying more, but I'm not happy with how it is executed. Not to the point of trying to kill a reform on a principle, but enough not to vote for people who came up with this in the future.

[El Dildo]

yeah the terrorists won a long time ago.

 

nothing happens on October 17th.

just go back to sleep and stop asking questions.

[Dingdongs]

Sorry K2 I thought I replied earlier but it didn't go through still getting used to the new system.

 

Anyway -

 

Reps will accept surrender in other positions. What they are blocking is a clean resolution with unconditional increase in debt ceiling. And they have a point on that, even if I find tactics questionable. They'll let Obama keep Affordable Care Act at a cost of placing some additional spending limits. I'm sure they'll try to leverage these agaisnt ACA at some point in the future, but it will be another battle at another time. For the moment, they'll offer Obama and "Out," and he'll jump on it, because if US defaults Obama will become the most hated President in history and ACA will have to be dropped anyhow with the way economy will go thereafter.

How do they have a point on that? The concept of a debt ceiling is, economically speaking, ridiculous. These are obligations the government has already appropriated and they need to be paid. As for the rest of what you said, I agree - I'm sure some kind of cut to discretionary spending (unfortunately...) will be in the works.

 

And ACA will go belly up one way or another. It's a matter of time. Even assuming that you are right, and maybe it will start to actually work in a year. Even if Republicans don't find a way to stall it, Americans don't have this sort of patience. Right now, all that people are seeing is something that gives them no additional benefits and costs more. They will look for ways to get around it in every way possible, and the system pretty much relies on people going along with it.

There is also the fact that if Republicans don't flinch right now, which I can't imagine them doing, they will have Congress in 2014. With people complaining about ACA left and right, Repubilcans will be able to kill it even if, as you say, it starts working.

In order to remain in power, ACA needs to start working, as in getting good public support, before Summer 2014, and I don't see that happening.

(P.S. Your statement about ACA being popular with public is a bit outdated. ACA support has been plummeting ever since rollout, and by now it has a healthy majority of people opposing it.)

It's not my opinion that it'll actually work in a year; it's just the way the law is designed. The provisions that are the "meat" of the bill take effect in January of 2014; like the individual mandate and the new restrictions on inusrance companies.

 

And no, my statement isn't outdated - you just misinterpreted what I said. I am well aware the ACA is not popular - polling usually shows the law itself at anywhere from 45-50 percent support. What I meant was that when you poll the public on the actual provisions, there is pretty wide support. If you ask the public "do you support insurance companies being prohibited from denying coverage to people for preexisting conditions" or "do you think people should remain on their parent's healthcare until age 26" or "do you think people should have to have insurance to get medical care and not just walk into hospitals on the taxpayer's bill" - there is WIDESPREAD support, I'm talking 55-60% +. The components, i.e. the meat of the bill, is popular. It's the actual bill itself that is unpopular, which I attribute to the skillfullness of the GOP superpacs in 2010 election and to a lesser extent 2012 election with causing.

[Creed Bratton]

So, the psychopaths surrendered after all.

[El Dildo]

So, the psychopaths surrendered after all.

"psychopath" is much too generous.

more like traitors to the country.

 

oh and just to be clear, I'm talkin' about this douchebag and his douchebag partners-in-crime.

 

 

I wish someone would put him out of his misery with buckshot...

Edited October 18, 2013 by El_Diablo

[lil weasel]

I would hope that the 'shutdown' has proven which Government Employees are truly redundant, and we can get on 'reducing' the spread/growth of the Government.

 

Why do we need a F.B.I. and a Homeland Security and a Marshalls Office? Why can't they all be from the same Justice Department Bureau?

Why... because it is the only chance we have of one agency squealing on the other.

Would we know about "Fast and Furious" if the Border Patrol didn't squeal to the F.B.I. and then get an investigation of the hated A.T.F?

 

I am quite tired of hearing, "Too large to be allowed to fail."

No group should be allowed to assume that mantle.

[Frank Brown]

 

So, the psychopaths surrendered after all.

"psychopath" is much too generous.

more like traitors to the country.

 

oh and just to be clear, I'm talkin' about this douchebag and his douchebag partners-in-crime.

 

 

I wish someone would put him out of his misery with buckshot...

 

They all need to be removed from office, regardless of political affiliation. Every single one of them. Clean sweep the House next year.

[K^2]

Well, I'll see you all back right at the same place in January.

 

 

They all need to be removed from office, regardless of political affiliation. Every single one of them. Clean sweep the House next year.

Agreed.