MrGlue Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Damn why am I just hearing about this? I played the bury the hatchet mission and I don't recall any flashback. If this is true then I can see why people dislike Michael, and i do too now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneety Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) The whole thing was really confusing for me but after reading this, I don't understand why people dislike Trevor and not loathe Michael. Trevor, to me, was the most realistic character in the entire game. So much for best friends. Edited October 8, 2013 by sneety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carisstr Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I believe Michael had it planned the whole time, after Brad got shot - he stood right there next to him, even though Trevor was encouraging him to take cover. Any normal person would run for cover? You can also see him kind of look around, almost like he is just waiting to be shot. This was one thing I noticed on my second play through, that and along with how he insists on 'sticking to the plan' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguitarist Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't think he knows 100% but he strongly suspected it. He asks Mike during 'Bury the Hatchet' if the shot was meant for him, but Michael never confirms it that I can recall. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I recall what happened in the Prologue was; Brad got shot, Mike went to save him and got hit too. He told Trev to run which he did, this allowed Trev to escape. Mike was captured and Brad was dead so he hatched a deal with Dave (not the FIB). They faked Mike's death, put Brad's body in the grave and put Mike in a sort of witness protection that Mike paid Dave to continue (hence Ron found the transactions to Dave's account). Dave got to look good as the Agent who shot and ended Mike's heist spree, he also got a promotion out of it I think. Mike took this opportunity as the best way out, otherwise he would be in jail and Brad would have died for nothing. What happened was that Mike got a wife and kids. He wanted out of the game for their and his own safety. In response (confirmed by dialogue after the game) Trevor stepped up their heists in order to try and force Mike to keep robbing people. However, Trevor and Brad had nothing to lose so they were reckless and Mike knew that he couldn't just say "I'm done with this and moving to Los Santos. I'll send ya a postcard T." because Trevor would likely come after him and force him back into the game. Brad was more likely just going to go into hiding or something after a Heist gone wrong. So he finds a potentially struggling FIB agent and makes the deal to make the agent's career (by giving him credit for ending the notorious Michael Townly's career) in exchange for witness protection. One condition was that the agent would also shoot Trevor to cut the strongest tie to that life that Michael had. In the opening, Michael forces them to stick to the plan. Brad walks in front of Trevor and gets shot. Michael, wearing a bullet proof vest no doubt, stays out there and gets shot rather than run for cover like Trevor did. If you pay attention in the prologue, there's no blood on Mike's shirt, but there is on Brad's. Personally, I think Trevor just wanted his friend back through the whole story. His attitude and craziness never let him just say "man forget about what happened back there, I just want to be friends. Let's go rob together." but if he was really pissed at Michael he would have just burst in his home and brutally murdered his family. He's killed people who mildly annoyed him, and yet Michael can do all that he did and get away with it. The story has always confused me a little. So michael was working with FIB before the prologue? Why? Why would killing trevor be the only way out of the life of crime HE chose to do? Who the hell is brad? And why was he buried in michaels coffin? STILL CONFUSED!!! Michael made a deal with an agent of the FIB before the prologue. Trevor kept pulling Michael into more wild heists (he admits it if the two of them hang out after the main game). It's unlikely he would have just let Michael go and Michael did fear him to an extent. Brad was the guy in the prologue who walked in front of Trevor and got shot. He was buried in Michael's grave so they'd have a body to bury. Trevor didn't know he died and sent letters to him which the FIB started responding to. A big thank you man, its great you're so knowledgeable. I remember in Bury the Hatchet (as you said) that Trevor says "How did it not work out the way it was supposed to? With Brad in the Can and me in the ground, or or or, both of us in the coffin?" I'm guessing you're right, Trevor suspected it but Michael never confirmed it. I think if Trevor knew for sure he might've reacted differently and killed Michael, because as we know, in the story he never did. Not after the big heist, not even if you selected the Kill Michael ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguitarist Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 The whole thing was really confusing for me but after reading this, I don't understand why people dislike Trevor and not loathe Michael. Trevor, to me, was the most realistic character in the entire game. So much for best friends. Trevor was batsh*t crazy though. He had nothing to lose and was going to get everyone killed eventually, but he was extremely loyal. Michael had a duty to protect his family and in a way had no choice but to get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oG-DaLLaS Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) If yall look closely, it looks like Michael didn't even get shot at all. Go look at it. Compare brad's wound to Michael's in the prolouge. It looks as if Michael just put his hand over his chest to make it look like he got shot Edited October 9, 2013 by oG-DaLLaS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jako98146 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Forgive me if I'm wrong but I recall what happened in the Prologue was; Brad got shot, Mike went to save him and got hit too. He told Trev to run which he did, this allowed Trev to escape. Mike was captured and Brad was dead so he hatched a deal with Dave (not the FIB). They faked Mike's death, put Brad's body in the grave and put Mike in a sort of witness protection that Mike paid Dave to continue (hence Ron found the transactions to Dave's account). Dave got to look good as the Agent who shot and ended Mike's heist spree, he also got a promotion out of it I think. Mike took this opportunity as the best way out, otherwise he would be in jail and Brad would have died for nothing. I think it was: Michael struck a deal with Norton to give Trevor up, in exchange, they would fake Michael's death. When they did the heist in the prologue, Michael led them to a supposed escape chopper, which was an ambush, and that was the moment where Michael was supposed to "die" and Dave was supposed to kill Trevor. Things turned when Brad walked in front of them and took the bullet. Michael was wearing a bullet proof vest most likely when he was shot, being that he didn't actually bleed or die. So Trevor escaped, Brad was put in a grave under Michael's name, and Michael lived in his mansion. Also, Trevor kept in touch with "Brad" under the assumption that he learned how to write, but it was really Daves posing as Brad to keep up appearance. Edited October 9, 2013 by Jako98146 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woggleman Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I can understand why Trevor was pissed. That is really foul to do that to your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamtackey Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) A big thank you man, its great you're so knowledgeable. I remember in Bury the Hatchet (as you said) that Trevor says "How did it not work out the way it was supposed to? With Brad in the Can and me in the ground, or or or, both of us in the coffin?" I'm guessing you're right, Trevor suspected it but Michael never confirmed it. I think if Trevor knew for sure he might've reacted differently and killed Michael, because as we know, in the story he never did. Not after the big heist, not even if you selected the Kill Michael ending. I really think he never was going to kill Michael. I think he accepted the idea that Michael could have set him up to die and was furious about it, which was why he left him with the Chinese. Yet, neither Michael nor Trevor could pull the trigger in that graveyard and, to me, that's pretty darn important. It makes me think that Trevor acts more upset with Michael than he actually is. Trevor's crazy, psychotic, a Hipster, and unwilling to let go of the past but as much as he complains about it I think he's happy somewhere inside to have Michael with him. Of course, he does tell Franklin (if you hang out with him) that Mike lucked out and Trevor focused his anger onto the other bad guys, but that's just an excuse. He didn't think twice about killing Floyd and Deborah who only annoyed him. Either he's got something in him that stops him from killing Mike or Mike's the luckiest man on earth. I can understand why Trevor was pissed. That is really foul to do that to your friend. You do have to consider that they weren't friends in the sense of "let's go sit down and play videogames for a few hours", but rather "let's go risk our lives and be crazy and rob people!" kinda friends. Mike was the only one to really grow up in a sense. He got a wife and kids and he saw where that life would lead and how it could come back to bite his family. He decided to put himself and his family first, instead of a guy he didn't really like (both Trevor and Mike admit to not liking Brad all that much) and his best friend. A life of crime has a lot of difficulties in it that I can't imagine, so I can't really judge Michael too harshly for doing what he did. I also can't blame Trevor for being pissed about it either. Edited October 9, 2013 by spamtackey theguitarist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikobomber Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 For people still doubting that Michael set up a deal before hand. If you get caught robbing a bank, you go to jail. Not witness protection. He couldn't have had any info cause nobody went to jail. He set the deal up before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake616 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Deal made beforehand. Also, Trevor doesn't forgive Michael until after the story has been completed. You have to hand out with Trevor using Michael or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguitarist Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Deal made beforehand. Also, Trevor doesn't forgive Michael until after the story has been completed. You have to hand out with Trevor using Michael or vice versa. Yeah I just hung out with Trevor as Michael after the game finished. Michael apologised and even offered his share of money from the final heist. Trevor forgave him. I've got to say this story hits you right in the feelings, picking endings A or B is truly tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake616 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Deal made beforehand. Also, Trevor doesn't forgive Michael until after the story has been completed. You have to hand out with Trevor using Michael or vice versa. Yeah I just hung out with Trevor as Michael after the game finished. Michael apologised and even offered his share of money from the final heist. Trevor forgave him. I've got to say this story hits you right in the feelings, picking endings A or B is truly tragic. The player is rightfully punished for picking either A or B, because both are awful endings. The return to Yankton is certainly the emotional climax of the story line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafMetal Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Great thread, OP. I don't recall Rockstar confirming one or the other, so I reckon it's up to interpretation. Imo, if you choose Deathwish and therefore give Trevor time to reflect on it and talk to Franklin to find out Dave wants him dead , then he knows that he was meant to be killed, but he is unsure if Brad was meant to be killed as well. You can call Trevor whatever you want, but he's not stupid. He's very intelligent -- I'm sure he inferred that the FIB were aiming primarily for him. I'm also sure he knew Mike didn't make the deal AFTER being taken into custody, since, after you finish Deathwish, Michael apologizes to him and says something along the lines of "I'm sorry. I had a family. I needed to get out and that life was going to get me killed. I know I made the wrong choice. I'll give you my share of the money"-yadda-yadda. Something like that. So he infers to Trevor that the deal was made beforehand. Edited October 9, 2013 by DeafMetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguitarist Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Great thread, OP. I don't recall Rockstar confirming one or the other, so I reckon it's up to interpretation. Imo, if you choose Deathwish and therefore give Trevor time to reflect on it and talk to Franklin to find out Dave wants him dead , then he knows that he was meant to be killed, but he is unsure if Brad was meant to be killed as well. You can call Trevor whatever you want, but he's not stupid. He's very intelligent -- I'm sure he inferred that the FIB were aiming primarily for him. Are you sure Dave wanted Trevor killed? I remember it was just Haines. Or do you mean back in the prologue, in which yes he did as part of the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafMetal Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Great thread, OP. I don't recall Rockstar confirming one or the other, so I reckon it's up to interpretation. Imo, if you choose Deathwish and therefore give Trevor time to reflect on it and talk to Franklin to find out Dave wants him dead , then he knows that he was meant to be killed, but he is unsure if Brad was meant to be killed as well. You can call Trevor whatever you want, but he's not stupid. He's very intelligent -- I'm sure he inferred that the FIB were aiming primarily for him. Are you sure Dave wanted Trevor killed? I remember it was just Haines. Or do you mean back in the prologue, in which yes he did as part of the deal? I meant the FIB segment they belong to in general, my bad, which I guess iis made up of Haines and Dave (weren't they both there when they told Frank Trevor needed to be killed? Edited October 9, 2013 by DeafMetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theguitarist Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Great thread, OP. I don't recall Rockstar confirming one or the other, so I reckon it's up to interpretation. Imo, if you choose Deathwish and therefore give Trevor time to reflect on it and talk to Franklin to find out Dave wants him dead , then he knows that he was meant to be killed, but he is unsure if Brad was meant to be killed as well. You can call Trevor whatever you want, but he's not stupid. He's very intelligent -- I'm sure he inferred that the FIB were aiming primarily for him. Are you sure Dave wanted Trevor killed? I remember it was just Haines. Or do you mean back in the prologue, in which yes he did as part of the deal? I meant the FIB segment they belong to in general, my bad, which I guess iis made up of Haines and Dave (weren't they both there when they told Frank Trevor needed to be killed? If I recall correctly Haines was furious and wanted both Michael and Trevor gone. Dave "calmed him down" and made a deal to spare Michael but Trevor had to go. I don't think Dave himself wanted either of them dead, but it was the best he could do with Haines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetaalex66 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 One question: Why didn't Michael chose Brad to sacrifice and not his best friend trevor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamtackey Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) One question: Why didn't Michael chose Brad to sacrifice and not his best friend trevor? Because Mike and Brad weren't exactly friends. Trevor mentions that Mike kept his work and home life separated, so it's reasonable to assume that Trevor was the only real 'friend' in the life of crime that Mike had. He didn't seem overly impressed with Brad in the opening, and both he and Trevor admit they weren't fond of the guy. Why would Brad go out of his way to bring a guy he didn't have a great relationship back into crime? He'd just get a new crew and go on his day most likely, or drop off the face of the earth with his money. He'd never see Brad again if he got out. Trevor, on the other hand, was Mike's best friend. He cared about Mike and wanted to keep him around, that's one of the reasons their heists got so crazy. Trevor saw Mike drifting away and didn't want him to disappear so he tried to make it interesting, but only ended up driving Mike away further. Mike didn't feel safe getting out of his life of crime without Trevor gone and feared that Trevor would seek revenge or something, maybe even on his family. He may be friends with the guy but he recognizes what Trevor is like. He describes him to Franklin as "Hell on Earth", if I recall. If you think that way about someone, you're probably a little afraid of them. Edited October 9, 2013 by spamtackey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonRenemy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Deal after? But the fact we have confusion over it shows bad story writing. One missed sentence in one mission shouldn't mean you can get the story wrong completely. Not at all... it simply means the story is there for us to find, and speculate over. It gives it replay value. I also suspect R* really expects everyone to go back and replay missions individually any way. The only "dull" version of my first playthrough was on that mission.... I did it with Trevor... all the rest I got to see as the full version. So I'm replaying it doing everything opposite from before. Damn why am I just hearing about this? I played the bury the hatchet mission and I don't recall any flashback. If this is true then I can see why people dislike Michael, and i do too now. And as I said above.. yeah it's a clever way to have people experience the game from different aspects. It gets the characters more firmly in your head, I suppose in a way it messes with your feelings too since you get to experience things from different aspects without seeing the full backstory. Like early on with Franklin and Michael.. you might not fully understand why Michael is so angry at the tennis coach and ends up pulling that house down. Franklin just sees a guy falling out a window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YadiYada Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Trevor values friends or those important to him more than Mikey-the-f*cker does in a way. At North Yankton too, Trevor gave up on shooting Mike and just ran away while Mike actually shot several times at Trevor's back (though he missed all shots). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hernan_ER Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) I read all this discussion and I'm loving it. I just have something to add: Michael shot Trevor but missed when Trevor threw his gun in the cemetery. So Michael pulled the trigger... Edited October 10, 2013 by Hernan_ER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redx165 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Trevor values friends or those important to him more than Mikey-the-f*cker does in a way. At North Yankton too, Trevor gave up on shooting Mike and just ran away while Mike actually shot several times at Trevor's back (though he missed all shots). Trevor values friends more then Michael? What about Ron and the other people he works with? He treats them all like sh*t. Yet he doesn't with Michael. I bet both fear each other in a sense. What would you do if you were Michael? Risk your family's life doing these crazy heist? or kill your best friend ( Who's going more crazy as we speak ) and keep your family safe. I would go with choice B all the way. Chips237 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts