Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. Gameplay
      2. Missions
      3. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Arena War
      2. After Hours
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA Next

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Grievous

Replaying The Lost and Damned today , after GTAV ...

Recommended Posts

Grievous

Replaying the Lost and Damned after 'that scene' in GTAV does bring in some new perspective to the whole situation , whether it is in the characterizations , the dialogues , the little details ...

There's just so much life brewing again in this four year old game ...

 

I recommend fans to play through this game again , but taking its time by going through the side missions and hanging out with Terry Clay and Jim rather than storm off through the twenty two story missions ...

I especially recommend the part about hanging out with friends , the dialogues they have that give little tid bits about their lives and random opinions just carry a bit of additional weight today than it did years before ... Before GTAV it seemed like mere additional layers that were implemented to fit into the ambiance of this biker gang and dysfunctional brotherhood lifestyle , but today ... well , try some out yourselves ...

But don't go expect some holy enlightenment , it's not going to instantly change your perception of the game or on GTAV , but just take it for the ride ...

 

Those who were also fans of Vice City Stories may have a better idea of what i'm trying to say :

since Vice City Stories was the first GTA to feature a protagonist with an already well established fate -and a not so impressive one at that either- the game's story had this weight of irony , this sense of hopelessness that carries throughout as we observe how Victor's attempt at being a hero only succeeds in laying the very grounds that ends up provoking his own demise ... Similarly , now that we know 'where' exactly The Lost ended up , we have a defined end to the bikers' voyage , making The Lost and Damned not just a glimpse into the wandering of the aimless few , but pretty much the last moments of the lives of those who still had this slim opportunity to deviate their route and make it better , but then fails at it ...
Not just to wander around in a state of limbo , but ends , full stop.

 

Again , the intention here isn't to necessarily change our opinion whatsoever , but to better appreciate , even more , on this game that some of us greatly enjoyed ...

 

 

Although I believe those who just want to re-experience the Lost and Damned themselves would just load the game again , I'm sure not everybody would have the time to do so , therefor i'll make quick mentions of a few moments and dialogues in particular that just seems to ring out more ironic echoes today than it did before , also to be able to discuss it , if needed ...

 

A couple of conversations when hanging out with the gang truly just went under the rug when I first heard them back in the days , now it just seems difficult not to make the immediate dots:

- Clay would propose that the Lost MC behave like the Angels of Death who have several chapters all over the world and several in the US. Jim finds the lack of sense in it, and argues by asking what would it look like if there ever was a Lost MC based theme park. Clay will nevertheless insist that it is still worth thinking to carry the Lost MC over to the west (San Andreas) , making the Lost a coast to coast operation -which is also ironic considering that not only does the Angels of Death have a chapter in San Andreas, but they originated there, starting from 1949 according to their website, which predates the Lost which began post-Vietnam war- Jim ends the conversation by pointing out that with enough trouble as it is the Lost have in Liberty, it would be unfair to propagate those troubles all over the world ...

It was notable that Johnny remained silent throughout this whole conversation, and so far in my playthrough it is also the only one where he doesn't place the slightest input. After James died we can assume Clay just brought up his idea again to Johnny.

 

Also worth remembering is that Johnny has a patch on his jacket indicating that he once rode to Los Santos back in 2004 (San Andreas' release date).

And San Andreas was also the only other Grand Theft Auto to feature the sawn off shotgun, but that's perhaps an off topic trivia.

 

Speaking of which , did the Angels of Death surfaced in GTAV ? it is their home turf after all ...

 

- Terry would ask the "what do we do" question if hypothetically Johnny ever bites the bullet one day. Jim will drag the conversation a bit until he finally states that it is simply unthinkable that Johnny should ever die considering how 'lucky' Johnny is. Terry will agree, saying he never met anyone has gifted in luck as Jonathan.

This conversation was already contradictory as it is to the events of the game. And yet who knew it could get worse?

 

- Jim will ask Johnny about Ashley, with Johnny repeating essentially what he says to Angus in the optional phone call after completing Ashley's first rescue mission. Jim says he is sorry for them, Johnny says Jim doesn't need to be sorry at all and angrily remarks that Ashley doesn't deserve anybody's pity. Jim will nevertheless remind that "life is pain" and that one should therefor find and take happiness wherever they can, and whenever they finds it. Johnny cynically states that Ashley's happiness is the drugs she takes.

The fact that James dies probably added to the shift in perspective to Johnny.

 

Most of the other conversations I've seen so far goes along to repeating topic regarding Clay's ex wife , Terry's brother Collin , Jim's wife , Clay reminiscing on his army days , and Johnny admitting that he always believed he would have been part of the army , which probably sored even more his relationship with his brother Michael ...

There was also a relatively short exchange between Johnny and Jim where they are both appreciating the good times and acknowledging that rock'n'roll will always end badly. Johnny even goes as far as to right out state he "knows how this will end".

 

A couple of drunken conversations acquired a new taste today for Terry and Clay:
Clay for example says he'll follow Johnny everywhere, but is only afraid of "waking up naked under a turnpike". Johnny laughs and says that it is indeed a possibility if Clay keeps on riding with him.
Terry says at times he honestly thought of changing his lifestyle, "wishing to get clean". Johnny mockingly proposes he starts by washing himself. Terry shouts as Johnny for cracking jokes while he was opening his heart to him. Johnny apologizes, saying he is simply too drunk.

But now we all know better.

 

And finally, what was especially notable for me today was of course the way Johnny converses with Ashley. The little details in John's behavior during the cutscenes of Ashley's first mission, notably in his eyes whenever Ashley hugs or approaches him, and the way he starts deviate his look and attention by trying to look at other things ...

The point being that these are still the same sequences , the same dialogues , the same game that came out years ago, but our previous understanding of these same moments are now somehow changed by the knowledge that it is all but a foregone conclusion.

And you know what ? ...

Somehow , i'm enjoying The Lost and Damned even more today , and I was already a big fan as it is ...

I've also gone better at Gang Wars , got three bikers maxed out -names Tug Bruce and Pat- along with Terry Clay Jim all maxed out as well , making a total of six full bars on the toughness display ...
Quite a sight , don't know how long it'll last ...

But that's another story I suppose ...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peachrocks

Most of this I already knew and paid attention to cus that's what I do. Johnny's whole 'caring too much' vibe and general sphere of those he cares for getting progressively smaller as his life gets sh*tter and sh*tter and more people let him down.

 

Terry's wish to live a 'normal' life isn't exactly surprising and of the four of them he seems the have the lowest self esteem, which is probably how he ended up in The Lost in the first place. I've exhausted all the conversations between Terry, Clay, Jim and Johnny but it never seems to come up how Terry acquired his debt in the first place.

 

I think the more interesting thing about Jim's background is that he used to be in the marines but either quit or was kicked out. He doesn't elaborate when Clay points this out, but it does raise interesting possibilities based on the fact that The Lost seems to be made of mostly people who are 'rejected' in one way or another by society for trivial reasons or in an attempt to avoid corruption and conformity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
felinegood

Fantastic writing gentleman. The Lost and Damned will always be my favorite GTA.

 

RIP Johnny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chainsoar

This...this is the most beautiful thing I have read in response to the now-infamous Trevor Philips/Lost MC feud. Congratulations, sir. You are a goddamn poet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grievous

I just thought it had to be said , that regardless of what Rockstar did to taint their new game , there was still this little flawed gem that was here with us for years , and will continue to carry on as long as we keep remembering it , even if we wished they would have returned to improve upon this gem ...

 

Interesting ... before GTAV , I've never truly felt that the line "lost but not forgotten" could meant so much ...

Edited by Grievous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peachrocks

 

Interesting ... before GTAV , I've never truly felt that the line "lost but not forgotten" could meant so much ...

 

A major reason I identified with Johnny is that well... I kind of familiarize with that concept very strongly. The term 'lost' can mean so many things after all :).

 

In any case, I'm still hoping as small as the chances might be that Jim indeed is still alive, that the subtle hints about him having to make a choice between Jackie and The Lost, the missing two million and his appearance in TLAD compared to GTA4 being different wasn't just a simple retcon (because those are such cop outs) and he'll be back either as a supporting character or protagonist with Angus in there somewhere too.

 

There is still a remote hope that this 'gem' isn't done yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FearTheLiving

- Clay would propose that the Lost MC behave like the Angels of Death who have several chapters all over the world and several in the US. Jim finds the lack of sense in it, and argues by asking what would it look like if there ever was a Lost MC based theme park. Clay will nevertheless insist that it is still worth thinking to carry the Lost MC over to the west (San Andreas) , making the Lost a coast to coast operation -which is also ironic considering that not only does the Angels of Death have a chapter in San Andreas, but they originated there, starting from 1949 according to their website, which predates the Lost which began post-Vietnam war- Jim ends the conversation by pointing out that with enough trouble as it is the Lost have in Liberty, it would be unfair to propagate those troubles all over the world ...

It was notable that Johnny remained silent throughout this whole conversation, and so far in my playthrough it is also the only one where he doesn't place the slightest input. After James died we can assume Clay just brought up his idea again to Johnny.

 

That's not entirely true. Johnny when asked about starting up another chapter will say something along the lines of. "I can't imagine starting another chapter after all the BS with this one."

 

~V Spoilers~

 

 

That aside even though him becoming a meth head isn't out of the realm of possibilities TLAD was definitely shifting its focus on the opposite. Clearly having Johnny tell Ash to get of the stuff, and when she didn't having him end it with her. The whole mission in V just screams of R* trying to shock their fans. Did it work? Sure, but I wouldn't say it was handled in a good light considering to me at least it removed the character development of TLAD and threw it out the window. If they had Trevor fight the real Johnny and not the junkie shell of himself I would have appreciated it much more than what we got. Add in that they treat two very tough bikers like cannon fodder didn't help either. Makes me not even want to know these characters if they're just going to go off and change them to their liking regardless of the previous story they established. Just my opinion of course.

 

Edited by FearTheLiving

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chainsoar

In any case, I'm still hoping as small as the chances might be that Jim indeed is still alive

 

 

Well, you know what? I replayed GTA IV in the runup to V's release, and obviously I replayed that mission as Niko. In the vanilla game, prior to TLaD, the biker Niko chases and kills doesn't look even remotely like Jim. He's just a regular NPC biker character model.

 

...much like the one Jim is seen talking to when Johnny brings the money to him? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peachrocks

 

In any case, I'm still hoping as small as the chances might be that Jim indeed is still alive

 

 

Well, you know what? I replayed GTA IV in the runup to V's release, and obviously I replayed that mission as Niko. In the vanilla game, prior to TLaD, the biker Niko chases and kills doesn't look even remotely like Jim. He's just a regular NPC biker character model.

 

...much like the one Jim is seen talking to when Johnny brings the money to him? :)

 

Yeah it's the fact they reused 'supposed' Jim (i.e the guy Niko kills) and the guy who clearly had to be identified because the other is scripted to collide into the train and why that guy would be hard/impossible to identify. Not like the Lost are going to help them with that.

 

If it was a simple retcon, why use supposed Jim again? It's either very clever or very lazy... Given the fiasco of Johnny's death and that show of lazy writing compared to their usual brilliance, it is REALLY hard to know.

Edited by Peachrocks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NADOLNY

x

Edited by nadolny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grievous

Ehhhh ... I can understand Rockstar making retcon moves in redesigning their characters , they've made several to both Jim and Terry if you look through the Lost and Damned's official pre-release screenshots ...

 

So since they've bothered placing the money briefcase exchange with Jim at the exact same location where Niko is sent to chase them ... I mean , it's their way of pointing out that it was Jim Niko chased after and killed ...

 

But the real issue we can point out however is 'why' was Jim , located at the north of Algonquin , captured by Ray's men and dragged down to south Algonquin , only for Johnny to arrive the two escape and Jim makes his way ... back north ? ...

 

It's an awkward situation for Jim , why would he return to that spot ? is that where he hid the money briefcase when Johnny brought to him ? really ? on such a easily accessible alley ? ...

 

I understand the drama in seeing Jim tortured in the basement of an Italian restaurant , but ... the continuity bit just seems bizarre ... as if they had no choice but to make things the way it is ... And what that is , is a lot of confusion ...

 

I'm sure Jim died , I sure don't wish to see Jim appear as the next protagonist of the GTA V DLC , because if it does happen ... it's seriously going to be stretched too far from the believable perspective , like an obvious manner to amend to 'poor writing' error ...

 

I mean hell , when Frank Woods was brought back for Black Ops II , it made sense eventually because it was all part of the frenetic Call of Duty action logic ...

 

If Rockstar pulls out a stunt like that with Jim , with a flashback mission , showing us how he escaped , feigned death by putting his wallet with ID card on one of the bikers' pockets , went to fetch Jackie and the kids , went for the airport and got out of Liberty , possibly even went to seek protection from the FIB ... ... I mean ... what ? ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peachrocks

If Rockstar pulls out a stunt like that with Jim , with a flashback mission , showing us how he escaped , feigned death by putting his wallet with ID card on one of the bikers' pockets , went to fetch Jackie and the kids , went for the airport and got out of Liberty , possibly even went to seek protection from the FIB ... ... I mean ... what ? ...

 

Nah. More like Jim makes off with the two million, bribes a cop and has Jackie identify the body. No FIB involvement. Simple and to the point.

 

It's just the retcon is so dramatic. It completely changes his appearance and yet they reuse the same guy despite this AND the fact two million has gone missing. The whole sequence is a bit fugly but I guess in doing it this way, it does allow a reintroduction of Angus and Jim and lets them y'know, actually do justice for some of the former Lost characters. It should not be about 'avenging Johnny' or anything but just more of the same characters that have so much depth.

 

It explains two big plotholes in the GTA 4 story, Jim's appearance being dramatically different and still being identified as being one of the two in the subway chase and the two million going missing. The way it sits now, is just so wrong, it's just full of plotholes.

 

Maybe you or someone else can do a better job of explaining how a guy completely different from the man we know as Jim being identified as Jim, or how several factions in Liberty City completely overlooked two million dollars going missing. It just the way it is currently explained does not sit well with me.

 

Let's be honest, it's a far lesser stretch then what they did to Johnny for the sake of their new Marty Stu, I mean... protagonist and this stuff will go over the heads of most of Trevor GTA style players anyway.

Edited by Peachrocks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grievous

Now that I think about it , Rockstar pulled out yet another retcon stunt in Ballad of Gay Tony , regarding the diamonds ...

In GTAIV's post ending news report, we learn that a homeless man finds the bag of diamonds in the city dump , which made sense since the diamonds were last seen dropped on a dump truck ... but then in Ballad's ending the diamonds were found in a trash bin in Meadows Park , in Dukes , right in front of Bulgarin's house ! but was this point of irony worth it ? can you even explain just how did the dump truck put in new trash into various bins around the city ? ...

The humorous point they supposedly wanted to make was that the unknown homeless man cited in the news wasn't all that 'unknown' to the player , but in fact the same minor-character that Niko and Vlad bumped into relatively early in GTAIV's plot; it's a classic humorous way to conclude a mac-guffin even that caused so much turmoil to the full cast of characters only to end up safely at the hands on an irrelevant passerby.
We get that, but it's still ridiculous to have the diamonds last seen in a dump truck suddenly pop back into the trash bins located in the suburbs, it's retcon at its lousiest.

 

And from that same conclusion, we can say that the two million dollar briefcase was similarly left out of the plot for good and they'll have no intention to justify anything. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted us to believe that the biker who smashed right into the subway train was the one who had the briefcase on him, therefor the money burned out and the wind just blew it all over the river.

Furthermore, just how did Ashley knew that Jim died? She learned it from Ray we know that, but just how did Ray knew who were the bikers Niko killed? Niko sure as hell didn't knew 'who' those bikers were, unless Ray Boccino and Phil Bell just happened to know for sure, with absolute certainty, that the bikers they sent Niko after was Jim and an accomplice.
Or she just read the news online.

Edited by Grievous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grievous

Something tells me Rockstar had originally envisioned that Johnny will , although failing in the process , attempt to pursue Niko when he was chasing Jim ... based on the very odd nature of this official pre-release screenshot ...

 

http://media.gtanet.com/images/6128-gta-iv-tlad-the-lost-and-damned.jpg

 

And I thought that subsequently , Johnny will let go of his 'no kidnapping' business and approve at kidnapping Roman Bellic once he is told who he is in relation to Jim's killer ...

 

But that didn't came to be , did it ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peachrocks

If Johnny knew Niko killed Jim or in fact knew most of what he did, it would have left an even more unsettling feeling about why nothing was ever done about it. That just couldn't happen, Johnny had to remain in ignorance of that fact.

 

As far as how Ashley knew? Feasibly, Ray could have told her. He knew because one of his mooks reported back who got taken out after Niko called it in.

 

Regardless of who actually got killed, if the 'police' were reporting that Jim got killed, that's what Ray would have heard. The news also isn't an unreasonable answer considering the fact Johnny didn't exactly have time to sit down and watch it, even if he would.

 

The whole thing is a mess though. The diamond thing too but at least that's a much smaller detail then something just vanishing with no explanation and no explanation other than major retcon for Jim's appearance, which is an explanation I hate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grievous

The diamonds being switched in two completely different position is a small detail ? no , not especially since it's one of the reasons they even bothered to tell the Ballad's unsatisfying story , and all that just to leave on a "hur-hur I see" moment , it just really wasn't worth the effort At All ...

 

Especially when you consider just how much Lost and Damned could have been improved if all the focus for DLCs lend itself exclusively to this chapter rather than to spread itself on two stories and have one that leaves plotholes and another that not only has nothing interesting to say but leaves plotholes as well ...

 

To put it simply , they could have made greater effort regarding Jim and the briefcase scenario than even bothering with the diamonds placement , even if it is a small detail , the fact that they actually altered it to give more inconsistencies rather than clean up another plot point , just disappoints ...

 

Agreed on the genius fact that Johnny remains unaware of who killed off Jim and Jason for that matter ... but nonetheless with that screenshot of Johnny , bloodied , and jumping off dangerously into the subway , could have been a segment where he sought to protect Jim from Ray's men , but was already too late and too far away to even know 'who' Ray has sent to kill his brothers ...

 

Wait , are you suggesting that Jim bribed off Weazel News journalists ? ... haha ! ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peachrocks

No but he could have done. Part of theme of BoGT (which oddly doesn't come up anywhere near as much as it should) is that everything has a price, but in this case it's not necessary. Jim or Jackie bribes one detective, what do you think the detective is going to tell the friggin' press? Furthermore, the media report on the event I believe makes it out to be a gang hit, rather than a mafia hit and one has to ask why.

 

I didn't dislike BoGT as much as you seem to and to be honest while TLAD could have been covered in greater detail, there's time for that later (cough, cough). If not through Jim, then for the love of God give poor Angus a happier ending.

 

To me something as small as a location doesn't really matter. Ultimately Luis could have parachuted from Bulgarin's plane into a dump, made some witty comment about it and bumped into Jerry there and found the diamonds. It's a pretty small plot detail and Jerry could have lied to make it seem as though he worked harder than he did if you want a cop out style explanation that's still more feasible than what happened to Johnny. As for how they got there? They flung off the truck and into the bin... or something? I'm not going to defend, it's garbage writing (for the sake of a lovely ending shot), but I've seen far worse.

 

The point is the diamonds location changes very little in the story. On the other hand Jim's appearance change on top of the missing two million, is a pretty significant detail to overlook. On top of fact that Jim hints pretty early on to Johnny that he wouldn't know which way he would go if Billy made him choose between his wife and the Lost if it came to it... yeah.

 

Chances of this being just another lapse from Rockstar? Pretty outrageously high, but a man can dream.

Edited by Peachrocks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grievous

Dream ? you ain't seen nothing yet compared to my next extravaganza topic ...

 

As for my appreciation or lack thereof with the Ballad , my gripes with it would be derailing this topic if I lash them out here , so that too would be have to kept in a 'coming soon' new topic ...

 

In any case I agree with your inputs , but it's crazy just how much we have to shift between defending the themes and pointing out poor writing at the same times ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peachrocks

The thing is that the poor writing is an exception to the rule rather than the norm which is why there is such discussion in the first place because its so out of place.

 

Both poor writing and themes go over the heads of most players and/or they can't empathize or understand a different point of view. They don't know and don't want to know, ignorance really is bliss until you realize what you are missing...

 

As for Ballad, well, let loose wherever/however you please. Let's just say I didn't dig as deep into it as I did TLAD or even aspects of GTA IV but I didn't avoid any side details like the plague as I did anything regarding Trevor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grievous

Continued my slow Lost and Damned playthrough today , i'm surprised as to how many character banters they've wrote and recorded for , even if you hang out once after every mission it wouldn't be enough to hear them all , you have to hang out with them after every single activity you do ! ...

 

I've actually stalled for quite a few hours before doing the mission where Billy gets arrested , instead , since all four side missions -gang war, races, bike theft, Stubbsie- have been unlocked , I've mostly out for them ...

Pity that Stubbs' laundry is only five short missions , I still like the mood they went for however ...

 

I've also already acquired the Assault Shotgun, it's simple really, Clay wields one once his stats are maxed, so all you have to do is rush over him when he dies during a gang war and pick the weapon up.

To refill the ammo is another story, you'll have to run towards enemy shotgun ammo, or phone Jim to have a sawn off left at the clubhouse which gives the biggest ammo refill count.

 

Gaining the assault shotgun this early though doesn't yield much advantages over the story missions, since they've been designed as to only necessitate the sawn-off for the first half, and by the time you're asked to kill multiple enemies it's precisely the right moment where they officially give you the weapon.

Pulling off gang wars with the assault shotgun is always a good plus however.

 

I've found that the grenade launcher is quite fun to use actually, shame also that the gang war enemy npcs have so much health resistance towards the grenades, except if detonated next to vehicles, they tend to never survive the blast.

 

One terms of interesting character banter sides: Clay made clear that when he was at Vietnam he was attached post-war at the Embassy.

Jim and Johnny will talk about how 'great' Billy was back in the day.

Clay will actually curse out at Billy when he's drunk.

And Terry finally spoke about the debt situation he is in, but although he doesn't say to whom he owes money to, the fact that he consistently blames the government, and raises issues with civil rights, and then the fact they evicted him from his house, seems to suggest his money issues lies simply with his lack of meeting ends need, like taxes even, and not like actually indebted to some other crooks.

 

Even though I completed nearly all of Angus' bike collection, he still sent me a text message regardless, urging me to do more work for him as "we seriously need the money".

It's interesting, it's the only time I ever seen Angus putting the money issue at the table. He often talks about finally having the money to buy the hardware he needed -of which he gives specifications or even asks for Johnny's assistance- but I never thought the money thing was actually this serious to anyone.

 

Which really brings the 'story to gameplay segregation' bit out: why doesn't anyone simply ask to take money from the player character? money of which there's nothing good to be used at.

 

In any case it still feels 'profound' to play as Johnny, walking running and riding his way across Liberty, the way he walks and the noise that his leather jacket makes, there's just this additional 'feel' to it that I just can't find it when playing as Luis for example, of which I just tend to jump straight from one story mission to the next even though i'm sure they've bothered recording a load of banter dialogues for him and his friends.

But even with the music, which the Episodes of Liberty City shares the same tracks, most of them just feels to fit Johnny's gameplay better than Luis'. Even Vladivostok FM, to my surprise. I don't know how to explain it properly but there's another vibe to it that accompanies Johnny's riding better.

 

Does anyone here owns the "Complete Edition" of Grand Theft Auto IV ? since it stores all three stories on one disc , I was wondering how did they sorted out the radio stations in it : can you listen to Jazz Nation or Journey while playing the Lost and Damned for example on this edition ? and how would the tracks of Liberty Rock and Radio Broker play out ? a mixture of both DLC and original game's track ? ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
B Dawg
But even with the music, which the Episodes of Liberty City shares the same tracks, most of them just feels to fit Johnny's gameplay better than Luis'. Even Vladivostok FM, to my surprise. I don't know how to explain it properly but there's another vibe to it that accompanies Johnny's riding better.

I have to say that Vice City FM really fit in TLAD (and it should have originally been a part of it), which makes me glad that I have the EFLC download' over the DLC. Even Vladivostok fit in. I once parked under a pink light next to a store and listened to 'Roxette - She's Got The Looks' and 'Womack & Womack - Teardrops'. It was magical.

Edited by DarkKingBernard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grievous

Vladivostok comes greatly into play during gang wars for some reason , when chasing after vehicles and trying to ensure your friends' survival, or just crossing the long bridges from Broker that leads to Algonquin.

 

I remember that on my first playthrough, a glitch occurred when Johnny gets on his bike for the last time at the end of the game , during this last bike ride , Johnny's Hexer plays Self-Actualization FM instead of the usual Liberty Rock Radio ; it was playing the track by Alpha Wave Movement , “

” , and at first I thought it was a piece of original instrumental music made for the game because it fitted the moment so well, as Johnny continues to monologue about how it all went to hell, and the fact that i rode all the way to clubhouse at a slow pace , and then the track reaches its high towards the end , just as I was seconds away from the clubhouse ... I mean , damn ...

Anywya back on my recent playthrough , another thing i’ve noticed about Gang Wars is that if your expendable brothers die and you would prefer to keep them alive for future fights as you don’t want to waste their high level of battle toughness, then you can in fact revive them; by simply failing your current gang war, and they’ll be revived the next time you trigger another war.

It’s easier to fail a gang war when it tasks you with pursuing an enemy vehicle, as all you’ll need to do is to ‘lose’ track of it, then a broken Lost MC logo will appear and state that the Lost have been defeated, but you get to revive your fallen comrades for free!

The other option is more costly, as it requires you to die in battle, and lose up to ten grand at paying the medical bills.

 

During the mission “End of Chapter”, the three brothers you power-up during gang wars will be the ones surrounded by Brian’s men at the beginning at the shootout. It’s quite possible to save all three of your soldiers, although not only they won’t assist you in pursuing the fleeing Brian’s faction, but they can still die easily in the next gang war you participate –mine took place in an alley next to a crane in middle/south Algonquin, the sudden unwanted presence of police officers armed with carbine rifles were mostly the reason why my soldiers fell in battle, that and the heavy screen lag as explosives tear up the whole street-.

 

The part where you’re asked to chase Brian’s faction, i’ve decided out of curiosity to follow them this time around instead of just gunning them down before leaving the docks, and see where they’ll eventually take me. They ride at a relatively slow pace, luckily the radio stations were playing a couple of songs i enjoyed so i took the opportunity to ride along. They seem to be riding in a random And scripted route at the same time; they’ll circle three times around a neighborhood before punching full throttle and heading for another neighborhood, or pass the booth tunnel into Algonquin, and then ride a couple more circles at East Union Drive, before making their way back to Alderney, then immediately back to Algonquin, and this time heading for North Holland. At that point the radio stations ran out of interesting songs so i thought the chase had ran its course now.

 

Chasing after Brian in “Bad Standing” is similar, though more restrained as he never seems to get off of the middle Alderney portion of the map where his safehouse was located and only circles around these parts.

An interesting thing with Brian is that if you shoot him off his bike, he’ll proceed to run on foot, and if you decide to chase him on foot and punch him, he’ll actually yell out a couple new lines of taunts, such as how “Even Billy hits harder”. None of Brian’s taunts, both on the bike and foot chase are subtitled however, although everything Johnny says are.

Edited by Grievous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kent186

After the members moved to Los Santos we never saw Angus, so it might be that he stayed in Liberty City and became to Chapters president.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LordWieslaw

He could regain fitness in the legs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fidzy

Reading through all these responses, along with original post, I'm too exhausted and exasperated to even begin to write something as large as those but I will say the Lost and Damned was my favorite GTA yet. It's saddening to know that they barely put any work into it though... We only see the Lost a handful of times in GTA IV and TLAD, with only three proper appearances in V (missions).

 

 

The riders you see in free roam on V aren't exciting at all. I must've followed them for about 10 minutes hoping for some dialogue to pick up about Johnny's chapter but the only ones I actually heard were the ones on the mission where

you have to blow up the trailers in the trailer park

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LordWieslaw

I think that Johnny could have 18-20 year old son in Los Santos. That could be the next protagonist in the next GTA. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Journey_95

very good post bro

I really love TLAD and thanks to you I will be starting another playthrough!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sukmieazz

It feels darker and adds a level of depression. I played through it again and it took about a week (would have been much quicker but my copy is the glichiest thing ever. Seriously. I had to restart the story twice because missions wouldn't show up and I would randomly drop through the disappearing ground.), and I hung out with my friends. Everything was hollow but meaningful, if that makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LoneWolfMargaret

I can't imagine I'll ever grow tired of The Lost And Damned. It is by far my favourite GTA. My dad's a biker and I have grew up amongst the culture and usually any depiction of bikers in media makes me cringe but it felt right in TLAD. Especially the focus on brotherhood and the different opinions regarding criminal activity. I imagine my next playthrough will feel a bit weird, now I know of Johnny's fate (and can't write ride-off-into-the-sunset fan fiction in my mind :lol:) but it will never lose it's appeal.

 

Brothers for life, Lost forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weiss Macht Frei

Best GTA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 2 Users Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 2 Guests

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.