Screw you, Rockstar... GTA V *SPOILERS*

[MrDeSanta]

I think it´s utter bullsh*t what they done with Johnny in V. It´s not the fact that he´s been killed. I wouldn´t have a problem with that, if it would´ve been believable.

 

But I can´t believe that he returned to Ashley and fell back into his meth habit after the ending of TLaD. He was done with her, he cut off all loose ends and was riding into the sunset. Lonely, but still alive and with some valuable experiences. And then in V he is with Ashley again and became a meth-smoking mess? Makes absolutely no sense.

 

It would have been great if they made Johnny and his new chapter as an antagonist for Trevor, with more than a few missions. But this means more development time, and they need all their development time for GTA ONLINE nowadays.

Agree. It`s not his death that is the problem but the way they made him look and die in V.The jump from TLAD`s Johnny to V`s Johnny is just too huge to be real.

I know R* just probably wanted to say "hey kids, don`t do meth look what it does to you, it turns you from physicly and mentally strong man with authority and personality into a little skinny bitch-pussy over night"

Some way of showing it really. Johnny really felt like he is done with Ashley in TLAD for good, he had a strong character he wouldn`t just brake his promises and pass his principles like that.

And now in V they pretty much ignored everything that made sense in TLAD and turned Johnny and TLAD into bunch of pussies? The old Terry and Clay i know from TLAD wouldn`t just let themselves be scared off like this from 2 braindead morons (Ron and Wade) waving at them with guns and 1 meth-maniac who`s talking to his own shoe.

 

So everything that was written in TLAD was suddenly just ignored only for the cheap shock effect "oh look how crazy Trevor is, you`ll have some fun playing as him". YUPEEEE

 

Give me a break. I know it`s all Ashley`s fault, that bitch was the reason TLAD went to sh*t in the first place but that doesn`t explain how Johnny turned into a spineless pussy in few years only,

Yeah i know, meth right? No, it makes no sense a guy like Johnny with strong personality would even start with meth in the first place.

 

So full of meaningless gaps in this crap.

 

Edit: it was only implied by Billy that Johnny took the steroids but never about meth or any other drug.

Edited December 27, 2014 by MrDeSanta

[B Dawg]

But I can´t believe that he returned to Ashley and fell back into his meth habit

We don't know if he ever used drugs in the first place He only describes his exterior as drug addled.

[HaythamKenway]

@MrDeSanta

 

I'm treading over old ground (like we've done anything else for last 6 months), but I have to say that I don't consider Johnny's downfall to be implausible at all. Between Johnny's inability to let go (he already was "done" with Ashley once when event of TLaD happened), his fractured mental state (no matter how resilient Johnny might seem at the end of TLaD, the civil war, Billy's betrayal, loss of Jim and Ashley's terrible condition must have taken their toll, long-term, on him) and a lack of funds (he has to make a living somehow, not to mention that he intended to support Jim's wife Jackie and their kid), it's no wonder he'd end up back in the life and subsequently, succumb to drugs.

 

The problem is that we never saw the transition. We have Johnny, at a horrible point in life, but hopeful and then we immediately fast forward by a few years and he's a complete wreck. That's the problem I have with Johnny's death. I actually don't mind Houser and co. developing his character like that and seeing the end of his story in V made TLaD emotionally resonate even stronger for me. To bring up one example, watching TLaD's bleak ending, where Johnny and the crew nonetheless find a new strenght and hope to carry on and then realizing how much worse will things turn out for them and that their downfall had only just begun... ouch. That game isn't just dark and depressing now. It's downright harrowing.

 

What we need is an explanation. We need to exactly see how and why Johnny fell so bad. We need a bridging story between TLaD and V. V has completely failed to deliver any exposition as to what has happened, and that's what makes the death so bad. Johnny's back and he's a different man now, curious how it happened? Too bad! Bam, he's dead! Hoping we'll at least build up Terry and Clay as minor antagonists and deliver some exposition posthumously? Well, tough luck, we'll just kill them as if they were some random mooks and never bring The Lost up again, have fun chasing Lazlow in Los Santos.

 

Edit:

Some more old ideas. What could have been really great is if O'Neils were scrapped altogether and Johnny and The Lost took their place, with Johnny becoming a major antagonist. Perhaps even the Triad subplot could have been changed to Cheng being a more distant observer, who decides to back The Lost only if they manage to get rid of Trevor, prompting them to hunt for him (imagine Michael being kidnapped by The Lost instead of Triads and so on). Johnny and others would get more screen time and writers would have a chance to explain their deteriorating state. And then Johnny could have been one of the antagonists taken out in the C ending.

 

Also, remember Terry's crazy brother everyone was afraid of? Why couldn't that be Trevor? Trev then would have a personal connection in the conflict and, considering his abandonment issues, he would have an extra motivation to take out Terry and his friends, as they essentially have what he craves so much and is unable to achieve - a loyal-to-the-death outlaw brotherhood.

Edited December 27, 2014 by HaythamKenway

[gunziness]

@drunkencowboy if I remember correctly, he mentions sometime that he used to do drugs back then. But even then, considering that he quit those drugs and knows how those can affect you (hence he cut his relationship with Ashley) its even more unlikely that he goes back on drugs.

So honestly that scene in V, the Lost being in SA (and not the AoD) shows that R* did that for shock value like it was previously said and that they were either drunk in whiskey while writing the history or they didnt really liked TLAD at all, which, in both cases its pretty sad if you ask me.

[Drunken Cowboy]

To repeat like the forth time,

Johnny describes himself as drug-addled,

Ashley says she remembers when they used to get lit at her place,

Johnny says he misses when the Lost used to get sh*t-faced and have a good time,

 

It's implied he did drugs, but considering he's straight by TLaD and in decent shape I doubt hard drugs... and like he'd do meth after him and Angus talked about how much it f*cked people up.

[Niobium]

If we are in truth burning down this thread, it was an honor and a pleasure bitching and moaning with you, gentlemen.

 

I'm really glad to see some people shared my views on this and what it represents both for GTA and the gaming industry in general.

 

I also really hope someone with more credibility in the gaming world will address this, but until then, we still got the forums, brothers.

 

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

 

 

If we are in truth burning down this thread, it was an honor and a pleasure bitching and moaning with you, gentlemen.

 

I'm really glad to see some people shared my views on this and what it represents both for GTA and the gaming industry in general.

 

I also really hope someone with more credibility in the gaming world will address this, but until then, we still got the forums, brothers.

 

"And now we wait..."

[Niobium]

i can see johnny becoming depressed after TLAD's ending, but i cannot imagine him being a wimp, at all. i would imagine him being aggressive and unpredictible, since that's what meth does to people. (actually, i do not think i can imagine him on meth either...)

 

he would have beaten the sh*t out of trevor.

 

you can have a character who is depressed but also aggressive and would want to break the guys face. here is an example:

 

http://youtu.be/9yQ61qzrKh4?t=34m42s

Edited December 27, 2014 by nobum62

[B Dawg]

What we need is an explanation. We need to exactly see how and why Johnny fell so bad. We need a bridging story between TLaD and V. V has completely failed to deliver any exposition as to what has happened, and that's what makes the death so bad. Johnny's back and he's a different man now, curious how it happened? Too bad! Bam, he's dead! Hoping we'll at least build up Terry and Clay as minor antagonists and deliver some exposition posthumously? Well, tough luck, we'll just kill them as if they were some random mooks and never bring The Lost up again, have fun chasing Lazlow in Los Santos.

Worst part is that after TLAD they grew even stronger by killing off the Angels Of Death all over the states (the AoD are gone, a myth), only to turn into pussies when Trevor shows up.

 

 

I might turn this into a meme.

 

 

Template if you wish to use it:

 

Edited December 27, 2014 by B Dawg

[HaythamKenway]

@B Dawg

That's right. Totally forgot about AoD. I guess they could handwave it away by saying that The Lost wiped them out in, like, 2010 and spend next three peaceful years sitting down and getting high. But that doesn't expain why AoD from north haven't rolled in and settled debts when they saw the Blaine County chapter's weakness.

 

Trying to make sense to Houser's script is a recipe for headache.

[Mr_Leone]

How about the fact meth turns Trevor into Big Schlong Johnson instead of a wimp like Johnny.

[Uncle Vlad]

The whole scene with Trevor and Johnny made absolutely no sense. I guess when they wrote the script for this scene it was like that: "Hey, let´s introduce Trevor with a big bang. We let him beat the big bad biker to death, so the 12-year-old players are like 'Wow, what a crazy psycho badass!'" And then "Oh sh*t, we need to make it more believable that Trevor is able to kill him without resistance. Whatever...let´s make Johnny a pussy, ruined by meth".

 

The whole Trevor and Johnny/The Lost thing is such a missed opportunity.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Doctor Ray

[ChrilLe]

You gotta be a true fanatic to be seriously pissed because your favorite character got killed by someone new.

 

It's a ''new'' game, a new era, and things needs to be replaced by time, like Johnny.

 

Calm your tits and enjoy the game.

[Payne Killer]

We had a good run boys, brothers for life, lost forever.

[Le zébu suintant]

Alright.

[Niobium]

You gotta be a true fanatic to be seriously pissed because your favorite character got killed by someone new.

 

It's a ''new'' game, a new era, and things needs to be replaced by time, like Johnny.

 

Calm your tits and enjoy the game.

 

everyone here already said that they are pissed at how johnny died. not that he died.

 

there was no reason to bring him back.

[donnits]

everyone here already said that they are pissed at how johnny died. not that he died.

there was no reason to bring him back.

Just going round in circles now. Someone new to the thread comes in and posts a smart remark without reading so much as the OP or even past arguments. We reply, telling them the same thing that can already be found in the OP or even some pages before. Repeat.

[PhillBellic]

 

everyone here already said that they are pissed at how johnny died. not that he died.

there was no reason to bring him back.

Just going round in circles now. Someone new to the thread comes in and posts a smart remark without reading so much as the OP or even past arguments. We reply, telling them the same thing that can already be found in the OP or even some pages before. Repeat.

 

Agreed. That is something that irritates me. Forum users don't get a 'lay of the land' before posting.

[woggleman]

Trevor should have stomped out Mori Kibutz. It would have been just as brutal and most people would see it as him getting what was coming to him. He could have gotten an attitude after ripping Trevor off and that would have been the end.

[PhillBellic]

Trevor should have stomped out Mori Kibutz. It would have been just as brutal and most people would see it as him getting what was coming to him. He could have gotten an attitude after ripping Trevor off and that would have been the end.

It would not create as much resentment if he had died instead.

[Mr_Leone]

f*ck guys, I'm sorry sh*t turned out like this. The Lost will be with me forever, as will the characters in it. The obscure voice actor from out of nowhere gave the performance of his life in a DLC more powerful than blockbuster titles like V. I think....yknow, as time goes on, and people wanted to see what the forum was like during these times, they will see an educated fan base giving the V guys (which is the turning point of the series) the finger. We will all be gone before that though, as GTA O expands and evolves, as will this forum. You won't see topics like Jims escape, it will all be online related. The SP GTA fan will become a dying breed.

[gunziness]

To repeat like the forth time,

Johnny describes himself as drug-addled,

Ashley says she remembers when they used to get lit at her place,

Johnny says he misses when the Lost used to get sh*t-faced and have a good time,

 

It's implied he did drugs, but considering he's straight by TLaD and in decent shape I doubt hard drugs... and like he'd do meth after him and Angus talked about how much it f*cked people up.

 

Ops, I now realize that getting sh*t-faced is actually getting really drunk (never knew that before). I always thought it was about getting high on meth or some drug like that. Now it makes more sense.

[American Viking]

The things is, several of you have mentioned that Johnny became a coward in GTA V but I disagree. He may have appeared that way but I believe they were trying to portray him as so weakened by drug abuse that he didn't have much fight left, a man trying to hang on to the last thing he had in the world: Ashley. This is why he made the mistake of trying to reason with a psychopath. I did not see a wimp in Johnny, not even at his end. I saw someone who was caught off guard by Trevor, because even in Johnny's condition, he would have put up a fight if Trevor had fought him like a man. Would I have liked Johnny to put up a better fight? Play a bigger role in the game? More backstory as to how he ended up there? Yes to all of them. What's done is done though.

 

The thing that annoys me more than that though is how Terry and Clay are just shot off their bikes like some generic goon. These men were a big part of The Lost and they deserved at least a cutscene apiece. Instead, they are killed with ONE bullet each! Whatever though, GTA V is one big goofy clusterf*** anyway. A sh*t stain on the GTA series.

[PhillBellic]

The things is, several of you have mentioned that Johnny became a coward in GTA V but I disagree. He may have appeared that way but I believe they were trying to portray him as so weakened by drug abuse that he didn't have much fight left, a man trying to hang on to the last thing he had in the world: Ashley. This is why he made the mistake of trying to reason with a psychopath. I did not see a wimp in Johnny, not even at his end. I saw someone who was caught off guard by Trevor, because even in Johnny's condition, he would have put up a fight if Trevor had fought him like a man. Would I have liked Johnny to put up a better fight? Play a bigger role in the game? More backstory as to how he ended up there? Yes to all of them. What's done is done though.

 

The thing that annoys me more than that though is how Terry and Clay are just shot off their bikes like some generic goon. These men were a big part of The Lost and they deserved at least a cutscene apiece. Instead, they are killed with ONE bullet each! Whatever though, GTA V is one big goofy clusterf*** anyway. A sh*t stain on the GTA series.

In many ways that is one reason there is much disdain in relation to V, amongst the IV and TLAD crowd. Their deaths were so cheap.

[B Dawg]

You gotta be a true fanatic to be seriously pissed because your favorite character got killed by someone new.

 

It's a ''new'' game, a new era, and things needs to be replaced by time, like Johnny.

 

Calm your tits and enjoy the game.

You don't replace something old and gold with something new but sh*t. That is the type of change you need to oppose.

[woggleman]

I think it was their way of symbolically killing off the IV and TLAD era and that is probably why IV fans seem to have such vitriol against V. Many of them probably feel like those who like games like IV and TLAD were thrown under the bus to appease all the complainers. I think that is a big part of the reason.

[Tycek]

God. Woggleman with his bullsh*t preaching again about IV fans and V hate. Drop it out, because this way doesn't lead anywhere.

[B Dawg]

I think it was their way of symbolically killing off the IV and TLAD era and that is probably why IV fans seem to have such vitriol against V. Many of them probably feel like those who like games like IV and TLAD were thrown under the bus to appease all the complainers. I think that is a big part of the reason.

That, and V is inferior gameplay wise

[Drunken Cowboy]

I think it was their way of symbolically killing off the IV and TLAD era and that is probably why IV fans seem to have such vitriol against V. Many of them probably feel like those who like games like IV and TLAD were thrown under the bus to appease all the complainers. I think that is a big part of the reason.

 

People say that, but I think they would have gone a little more direct.

 

And if that was their goal, that's f*cking puerile. "We made some design decisions we liked at the time but we won't defend and openly strike down what we accomplished because you San Andreas sandboxers were vocal complainers!"

 

Didn't those (perhaps unmerited) 10 outta 10's exploding around IV's release matter?

[HaythamKenway]

@Drunken Cowboy

 

As sad as it is, IV is still a black sheep of the franchise. The sentiment on the internet is overwhelmingly negative and with Rockstar their full appeasement mode, we should be happy they aren't completely cr_pping all over the game. At least Niko got off pretty lightly.

 

Rockstar are desperate to be "the one and only" in the sandbox pond again, even if it means forgetting IV even existed at best, dancing on its corpse at worst. Rise of Saints Row, Just Cause and other games must have really hurt their pride. It's an immature behavior. I mean, even Ubisoft and Volition not only acknowledge their controversial titles (AC III, SR:TT), but build on them and show some pride about them. And both of those games were far more flawed than IV. But nooo, if Rockstar isn't at the top of a pile for once, it means they must burn all bridges.