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Drunken Cowboy

Screw you, Rockstar... GTA V *SPOILERS*

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Niobium

 

Why not kill Luis, anyway? I don't remember anyone liking the uptight, monotone, zombie douchebag.

 

 

well you may not like luis, but he is still a tough son of a bitch like IV johnny and wouldn't die easily.

if johnny was replaced with luis i'd still be angry because just like johnny, luis wouldn't die so damn easily

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Brock Elvis

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

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Niobium

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

sorry but when did johnny consider suicide

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Drunken Cowboy

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

Did he, now?

Must have missed that in the four times I played TLaD.

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Niobium

 

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

Did he, now?

Must have missed that in the four times I played TLaD.

 

i highly doubt that's possible anyway because if you're a badass tough biker, you will NOT contemplate suicide

edit: or suddenly become a pussy

Edited by nobum62

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simonp92

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

Your logic + Johnny saying one line about not caring if he dies = Johnny is a crying emo?

 

Besides saying "I don't care if I die" is not being suicidal, It's much closer to fatalism.

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The4orTy67

I hate Rockstar for doing this. Johnny and TLAD were by far the best things to ever happen to GTA IV.

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Drunken Cowboy

 

 

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

Did he, now?

Must have missed that in the four times I played TLaD.

 

i highly doubt that's possible anyway because if you're a badass tough biker, you will NOT contemplate suicide

edit: or suddenly become a pussy

 

 

I was mostly being sarcastic. But yeah, he never really gave any indicators. I highly doubt that a man with the killed mentor, best friend, club, and burnt down "home" would say "f*ck IT, LET'S MOVE ACROSS THE COUNTRY STRAIGHT INTO ANGELS OF DEATH TERRITORY!" though.

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Drunken Cowboy

 

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

Your logic + Johnny saying one line about not caring if he dies = Johnny is a crying emo?

 

Besides saying "I don't care if I die" is not being suicidal, It's much closer to fatalism.

 

 

Maybe, though Johnny was pretty clear he had no faith or religion, other than himself, his brothers, and his club. There were only two lines like this anyway. "Kill me already!" and "I don't care if I die!"

They SEEM as though they have a deeper meaning, particularly the "I don't care if I die!" line; though, it was probably just a brutal way of demonstrating how fearless he was.

Anyways, the "battle cries" of the protagonists are during the comical and technically unrealistic gameplay sequences, not the serious cutscences. Consequently, they can have some fun with them.

"TRYING TO CHECK YOURSELF OUT OF THE GENEPOOL, HUH?"

"I'M ABOUT TO HAVE A SENSE-OF-HUMOR FAILURE!"

"SUCK MY CIRCUMCISED COCK, DEADBEATS!"

 

Johnny's "God damn it, let's just kill these assholes so I can get on with my life" attitude resulted in some amusing lines.

But now he's dead because f*ck good characters.

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simonp92

^ Lol. I've never heard that line about the circumised dick. Really funny.

Edited by simonp92

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Niobium

 

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

Your logic + Johnny saying one line about not caring if he dies = Johnny is a crying emo?

 

Besides saying "I don't care if I die" is not being suicidal, It's much closer to fatalism.

 

saying "I DON'T CARE IF I DIE" during fights is just simply showing johnny's fearlessness, kind of like when luis says "STOP ME THEN" or when niko says "I DON'T GIVE A SH*T" during fights

Edited by nobum62

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Reshe

 

 

 

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

Did he, now?

Must have missed that in the four times I played TLaD.

 

i highly doubt that's possible anyway because if you're a badass tough biker, you will NOT contemplate suicide

edit: or suddenly become a pussy

 

 

I was mostly being sarcastic. But yeah, he never really gave any indicators. I highly doubt that a man with the killed mentor, best friend, club, and burnt down "home" would say "f*ck IT, LET'S MOVE ACROSS THE COUNTRY STRAIGHT INTO ANGELS OF DEATH TERRITORY!" though.

 

Would sh*t myself if this was a dlc. Probably not though. About the patch though, it does seem not very likely that rockstar included the vice president patch for no reason. I mean, they took the time to upgrade his model. Doesn't make sense. Very weird. None of the lost members mention johnny as a president in GTA V, or mention him being not a president. Makes you think R* wants us to get to our very lowest with our feelings about johnny, then surprise us. A bang. A DLC.

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Niobium

@Reshe you just gave me hope god dammit...

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Peachrocks

After what they did to him and how they treated The Lost in general, I don't have much hope that if they do anymore with The Lost that it will be good.

 

Considering how off everything else was it would not surprise me if it actually was an oversight.

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Niobium

lol, since everyone says that gta 5 johnny is a completely different person from gta 4 johnny, or that gta 5 johnny is not the real johnny, i like to think that johnny donated a bit of his blood to scientists for an experiment. the scientists wanted to make a clone, so they sucessfully cloned johnny, however the clone was a biiiiig pussy compared to the real johnny, and he somehow got addicted to meth. the scientists also did the same with terry and clay.

 

franklin to johnny's clone: "MAN YOU A GENETIC EXPERIMENT GONE WRONG DAWG"

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Chm0

I was very surprised to see that johnny moved with ashley to LS knowing that in TLAD he wanted to stay away from that drug addicted bitch. Rockstar just went full retard with gta V story...

 

And it's really sad to see a protagonist get killed like that, for a dumb reason. Just because they wanted to show that trevor is a crazy man.

Edited by Mpower

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Drunken Cowboy

 

 

 

 

Isn't it funny how Johnny comtemplated suicide yet everybody cries when dies. It was either Johnny cuts himself to the point where his wrists are more red than tomatos or he gets murder. Either way he had it coming.

Did he, now?

Must have missed that in the four times I played TLaD.

 

i highly doubt that's possible anyway because if you're a badass tough biker, you will NOT contemplate suicide

edit: or suddenly become a pussy

 

 

I was mostly being sarcastic. But yeah, he never really gave any indicators. I highly doubt that a man with the killed mentor, best friend, club, and burnt down "home" would say "f*ck IT, LET'S MOVE ACROSS THE COUNTRY STRAIGHT INTO ANGELS OF DEATH TERRITORY!" though.

 

Would sh*t myself if this was a dlc. Probably not though. About the patch though, it does seem not very likely that rockstar included the vice president patch for no reason. I mean, they took the time to upgrade his model. Doesn't make sense. Very weird. None of the lost members mention johnny as a president in GTA V, or mention him being not a president. Makes you think R* wants us to get to our very lowest with our feelings about johnny, then surprise us. A bang. A DLC.

 

 

When you are forced to mercilessly kill the Lost at the Range for no reason, patchmembers congregating around the truck of coffins (assumable Johnny, Terry, and Clay) says "Billy Gray (spelled incorrectly in the subtitles, showing how careless they continued to be regarding TLaD) would have never let this happen."

This is assuming Johnny was in charge, since Billy had the club's identity as president for so long.

The Vice Prez patch was easily just a careless oversight. If they went off the events of TLaD, would Johnny care about Ashley? Would Johnny even BRING Ashley? Would Johnny be back on drugs? Would Johnny move to Sandy Shores? Would Terry and Clay act like f*cking pussies?

Rockstar just callously and carelessly gave the finger to who bought TLaD, and the least they could to is make it up for us with SOME sort of justifiable back story... Maybe The Lost kill most of the TP Enterprises employees, and put Ron in that knee brace. Maybe Johnny is a headstrong leader who f*cks Trevor's lady, but then Ashley arrives later in LS, bringing Johnny down with drugs.

AT LEAST put Johnny respectfully in GTA:O if we can't hope for an Episodes style DLC. I really wanted to do some missions for the guy, not just kill the Lost f*cking over and over for assholes Lamar and Trevor.

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TheMarkOfKhan

Is anyone as f*cking PISSED off as I am that Johnny got killed? They didn't even give the man who broke into Alderny State Correctional a decent death.

Did it occur to Rockstar that the protagonist of a DLC purchased by millions was actually LIKED? And Clay and Terry, that was just bullsh*t overkill.

Why Johnny? There was nothing to be gained from killing him. If they are only going to have a reoccurring character on the screen for two minutes, their purpose is USUALLY to be an exciting homage to something the players loved, yet he, Terry, and Clay served no purpose other than being f*cking killed.

 

Why not kill Luis, anyway? I don't remember anyone liking the uptight, monotone, zombie douchebag.

 

f*ck you, Rockstar. That was a f*cking cheap move.

 

 

Initial venting aside... Topics arisen since this was posted...

 

- It's more or less HOW Johnny was killed, by who, in what fashion, under what circumstances, and how Johnny received it more than the fact that he WAS killed.

 

- It's the WHY, we feel this effect could have been conveyed in the same way without the sacrifice of Johnny and his old crew.

 

- It violates everything we were meant to believe about Johnny and the Lost in The Lost and Damned.

 

- It either made Trevor a drag or completely ruined him as a playable character in GTA V. We did not get many reasons to sympathize or just like him during the campaign anyway, but this really pushed it over the edge.

 

- Bringing Johnny back was unnecessary, poster Grievous said:

The only ending route that made sense was the one we precisely saw at the end of Lost and Damned , with Johnny's three final steps at committing social 'suicide' ; storming a government facility to kill a childhood friend , torching his own home , saying farewell to friends on the phone and sitting on that dirty bed in Brian's safehouse as incessant and loud death metal music rings over his head.

 

There was no 'need' to bring Johnny back and show people how 'drugs are bad! even if life all falls apart you should never take it as a last resort! and don't touch drug addicted women either!' it would have been akin to have an ambulance arriving and reviving Victor Vance, but on the way back to the hospital the ambulance goes off route and flips upside down and crash and burn and explodes. It's overkill.

 

- To a lesser extent, but still a present argument, we feel that the presence of Johnny, the Lost, and maybe even the Angels of Death would have led to a much more interesting environment in Blaine County.

Calm. Down. They did it to create the feeling of Trevor being such a powerful badass. They did it to build his character into a better johnny. If you though Johnny was badass, look how easily Trevor killed him. He was like a fly to Trevor. Trevor>Johnny=what Rockstar wanted.

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TheMarkOfKhan

 

Is anyone as f*cking PISSED off as I am that Johnny got killed? They didn't even give the man who broke into Alderny State Correctional a decent death.

Did it occur to Rockstar that the protagonist of a DLC purchased by millions was actually LIKED? And Clay and Terry, that was just bullsh*t overkill.

Why Johnny? There was nothing to be gained from killing him. If they are only going to have a reoccurring character on the screen for two minutes, their purpose is USUALLY to be an exciting homage to something the players loved, yet he, Terry, and Clay served no purpose other than being f*cking killed.

 

Why not kill Luis, anyway? I don't remember anyone liking the uptight, monotone, zombie douchebag.

 

f*ck you, Rockstar. That was a f*cking cheap move.

 

 

Initial venting aside... Topics arisen since this was posted...

 

- It's more or less HOW Johnny was killed, by who, in what fashion, under what circumstances, and how Johnny received it more than the fact that he WAS killed.

 

- It's the WHY, we feel this effect could have been conveyed in the same way without the sacrifice of Johnny and his old crew.

 

- It violates everything we were meant to believe about Johnny and the Lost in The Lost and Damned.

 

- It either made Trevor a drag or completely ruined him as a playable character in GTA V. We did not get many reasons to sympathize or just like him during the campaign anyway, but this really pushed it over the edge.

 

- Bringing Johnny back was unnecessary, poster Grievous said:

The only ending route that made sense was the one we precisely saw at the end of Lost and Damned , with Johnny's three final steps at committing social 'suicide' ; storming a government facility to kill a childhood friend , torching his own home , saying farewell to friends on the phone and sitting on that dirty bed in Brian's safehouse as incessant and loud death metal music rings over his head.

 

There was no 'need' to bring Johnny back and show people how 'drugs are bad! even if life all falls apart you should never take it as a last resort! and don't touch drug addicted women either!' it would have been akin to have an ambulance arriving and reviving Victor Vance, but on the way back to the hospital the ambulance goes off route and flips upside down and crash and burn and explodes. It's overkill.

 

- To a lesser extent, but still a present argument, we feel that the presence of Johnny, the Lost, and maybe even the Angels of Death would have led to a much more interesting environment in Blaine County.

Calm. Down. They did it to create the feeling of Trevor being such a powerful badass. They did it to build his character into a better johnny. If you though Johnny was badass, look how easily Trevor killed him. He was like a fly to Trevor. Trevor>Johnny=what Rockstar wanted.

 

To add to that, think of why missions are filled with killing the Lost MC. Rockstar is trying to say that, yes, the Lost and Damned was a lackluster DLC, and now we are killing them off.

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Niobium

Calm. Down. They did it to create the feeling of Trevor being such a powerful badass. They did it to build his character into a better johnny. If you though Johnny was badass, look how easily Trevor killed him. He was like a fly to Trevor. Trevor>Johnny=what Rockstar wanted.

 

too many people are saying that the scene was created to make trevor look badass, but all the scene really did was make johnny-boy a pussy.

if trevor was truly a badass he would have actually fought johnny and not cheaply killed him like he did. he would have fought the gta 4 johnny btw, not the pussified, gta 5 johnny

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danceofdeath

Just want to throw my two cents in here.

 

To me a few things about Johnny's death seems strange.

 

The first one is that only trevor ever says he died, Last time i checked all the of the player actions are always reported on the in game radio.

 

I don't recall ever hearing Johnny's death mentioned, Ashley's death is mentioned by saying she OD'd on drugs but nothing about Johnny.

Secondly we are assuming that bit of matter on trevors boot is a part of Johnny's brain. What I can't understand is how that would have stayed on his boot for that long.

Finally people survive head trauma like that all the time. It takes allot of force to crack a skull. Even then it's suvivable.

 

It's almost like R* is doing everything in their power to convince us that Johnny is dead, perhaps we are looking at this wrong. They want us to think he is dead, perhaps they have a DLC planned where Johnny returns to get revenge on trevor for what he did to him. I mean everything is set up perfectly for it, no one thinks Johnny is alive they're all to willing to accept word of a meth head as fact, when the truth could be more interesting.

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Niobium

guys, i made a poll in the gta 5 section to see whether or not people care about john's death. http://gtaforums.com/topic/642482-spoilers-are-you-upset-about-what-trevor-did-in-his-introduction/

 

the results don't look so good :( based on the results so far, i think we're the minority here...

edit: a lot of you guys were right it seems. more people care about gameplay than story

Edited by nobum62

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Niobium

 

When you are forced to mercilessly kill the Lost at the Range for no reason, patchmembers congregating around the truck of coffins (assumable Johnny, Terry, and Clay) says "Billy Gray (spelled incorrectly in the subtitles, showing how careless they continued to be regarding TLaD) would have never let this happen."

 

This is assuming Johnny was in charge, since Billy had the club's identity as president for so long.

The Vice Prez patch was easily just a careless oversight. If they went off the events of TLaD, would Johnny care about Ashley? Would Johnny even BRING Ashley? Would Johnny be back on drugs? Would Johnny move to Sandy Shores? Would Terry and Clay act like f*cking pussies?

Rockstar just callously and carelessly gave the finger to who bought TLaD, and the least they could to is make it up for us with SOME sort of justifiable back story... Maybe The Lost kill most of the TP Enterprises employees, and put Ron in that knee brace. Maybe Johnny is a headstrong leader who f*cks Trevor's lady, but then Ashley arrives later in LS, bringing Johnny down with drugs.

AT LEAST put Johnny respectfully in GTA:O if we can't hope for an Episodes style DLC. I really wanted to do some missions for the guy, not just kill the Lost f*cking over and over for assholes Lamar and Trevor.

 

thank you for killing my hope. now i realize the chances of a johnny dlc being released are the same as Half life 3 getting released, which is never :(

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Peachrocks

Lamar only has one mission (I think) where you have to kill Lost members and I actually don't mind him. Ron and Trevor are the big offenders and about a third of Geralds are anti Lost. Martin has one but the pay is horrible for the effort.

 

Honestly are you surprised that people in GTA V land don't give a damn? I know I'm not, most people wouldn't know character depth and trying to understand someone else's point of view if their life depended upon it.

 

Still they don't really care either way, so why do it? No satisfying answer will ever come of that. It doesn't make Trevor look like a badass, it makes him look like a coward and a child who cries whenever he's told no and this is reinforced throughout the story only letting go of his candy when promised something better. incidentally I think that is the major reason he's liked by most people, he's basically their fantasy.

 

Johnny going to LS however does make sense. He, Brian and Terry went there in 2004 apparently so returning and calling it a new home works. As for Ashley, Johnny rationally knows that she is bad for him and that's why he sounds firm in his words but his good nature is unable to leave her. After all he's been through it isn't surprising Johnny turned to drugs either, but like I've said before, it's all possible but it's not satisfying writing.

 

I'd rather no back story and just let the man rest in peace. At least not in trying to justify Trevor because there is no justifying him. He murdered Floyd (sick of spoiler tagging that) and there was even less justification for that murder than Johnny's.

 

I've said it before but if you want Lost character content, focus on Angus and Jim and explain all the retcons and missing 2 mil. The only two TLAD characters they didn't butcher in GTA V primarily because they weren't even mentioned.

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50 Shades of Shady

The Johnny in GTA V, like Michael, represents the protagonist who won. But unlike Michael, Johnny represents the negative side to winning. The ending to the Lost and the Damned was at best bittersweet. Johnny had to kil many of his "brothers" during the Lost civil war, saw two friends die, witnessed his former best friend go insane and eventually betray the club forcing him to kill him, and had to burn down the clubhouse. In the end, he still "won", but it was a pyrrhic victory. I wouldn't be surprised if his death in GTA V was a suicide by Trevor.

 

Rockstar killed Johnny to show the cold, dark, and bleak consequences of winning in contrast to the wealthy lifestyle of Michael.

 

Still don't know why they just slaughtered Lost though.

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Drunken Cowboy

The Johnny in GTA V, like Michael, represents the protagonist who won. But unlike Michael, Johnny represents the negative side to winning. The ending to the Lost and the Damned was at best bittersweet. Johnny had to kil many of his "brothers" during the Lost civil war, saw two friends die, witnessed his former best friend go insane and eventually betray the club forcing him to kill him, and had to burn down the clubhouse. In the end, he still "won", but it was a pyrrhic victory. I wouldn't be surprised if his death in GTA V was a suicide by Trevor.

 

Rockstar killed Johnny to show the cold, dark, and bleak consequences of winning in contrast to the wealthy lifestyle of Michael.

 

Still don't know why they just slaughtered Lost though.

 

Again, I doubt that's Rockstar's purpose, but that's also a new, interesting perspective.

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Niobium

people are saying johnny was miserable and had nothing to live for, but you guys must realize suicide (or in this case having trevor kill you) is not the answer

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MitchJ90

Where do people get this BACK on drugs thing for Johnny? Hanging out convos? He says sarcasticly this drug addled exterior at one point but I cant remember any more.

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Drunken Cowboy

Where do people get this BACK on drugs thing for Johnny? Hanging out convos? He says sarcasticly this drug addled exterior at one point but I cant remember any more.

 

Pretty much. It was such an unelaborated DLC, that's all we have to go on. He talked with Billy of his fond memories of "getting sh*t faced and kicking in the teeth of anyone who got in their way" of the club. He also talks to Billy, Angus, and Ashley about how him and Ashley used to build their relationship on getting f*cked up together, but that he went straight because she couldn't.

Plus just biker stereotypes I guess. More than anyone; though, except for maybe Vic Vance or someone as "sophisticated" as Toni Cip, it seems as Johnny carried himself the most "anti-drug", particularly because he saw how it f*cked up people like Ashley and Billy first hand.

But then he just got back into drugs because... Rockstar.

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Niobium

he (Johnny) just got back into drugs because... Rockstar.

 

the worst part is that the same people who wrote the script for IV, TLAD and TBOGT wrote GTA 5's script. FFS, they should know more about johnny than we do, but for some dumbass reason, they think johnny would go back to drugs. if anyone has been smoking too much meth it's the writers.

 

to be fair, at least johnny was in character a little bit. just a little. when he says "WE ALL GET HIGH, BUT THAT DON'T MAKE IT RIGHT!", he is saying that he does drugs but still hates them.

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