The Driving Debate

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

Here is how I feel when I drive, approaching a tight bend in the hills:

 

Oh I see a tight turn coming up. Let me slowly ease on the brakes and slightly and slowly move the joystick to the right(this is when I rolepay and drive like a somewhat safe driver like I always did in IV). *I do what I said I would* The f*ck? Why is the car braking so heavily, well I guess I should just lift off the gas and not brake when approaching a corner because lifting off the gas acts like a brake. *I begin to corner cautiously with only a bit of gassing* Why is this car overturning. I try to ease into the corner but I cannot do so without having to "jolt" the joystick to the right every 1.5 seconds instead. And it feels so numb to steer.

 

That is how I feel, and that is not enjoyable to me. It feels numb and ludicrous. I want to ease on the brakes into a corner, and smoothly steer my way out with steering feedback, and with an at least somewhat realistic steering radius.

 

The driving in V, I'll be blunt, feels like rubbish. It feels like it was only built for those casual players who only like to speed and often trash their cars after 5 minutes.

Edited February 10, 2014 by StingrayX

[Blingy]

Here is how I feel when I drive, approaching a tight bend in the hills:

 

Oh I see a tight turn coming up. Let me slowly ease on the brakes and slightly and slowly move the joystick to the right(this is when I rolepay and drive like a somewhat safe driver like I always did in IV). *I do what I said I would* The f*ck? Why is the car braking so heavily, well I guess I should just lift off the gas and not brake when approaching a corner because lifting off the gas acts like a brake. *I begin to corner cautiously with only a bit of gassing* Why is this car overturning. I try to ease into the corner but I cannot do so without having to "jolt" the joystick to the right every 1.5 seconds instead. And it feels so numb to steer.

 

That is how I feel, and that is not enjoyable to me. It feels numb and ludicrous. I want to ease on the brakes into a corner, and smoothly steer my way out with steering feedback, and with an at least somewhat realistic steering radius.

 

The driving in V, I'll be blunt, feels like rubbish. It feels like it was only built for those casual players who only like to speed and often trash their cars after 5 minutes.

[woggleman]

Basically IV split the GTA fanbase right down the middle and R had to decide which one to alienate and which one to satisfy. There was no way this game was going to make everybody happy with that polarization. I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

[Algonquin Assassin]

I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

 

Why are you making it sound like it's our fault some SA fans felt the way they did about GTA IV?

[woggleman]

 

I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

 

Why are you making it sound like it's our fault some SA fans felt the way they did about GTA IV?

 

Because you guys pretty much said the same things to them that V fans are saying to people who criticize it.

[Algonquin Assassin]

 

 

I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

 

Why are you making it sound like it's our fault some SA fans felt the way they did about GTA IV?

 

Because you guys pretty much said the same things to them that V fans are saying to people who criticize it.

 

 

So if I read this correctly it's our fault some SA fans couldn't deal with GTA IV concentrating on refining the series rather than quantity of features and because GTA V gets criticized (which might I add isn't just GTA IV fans) it means we deserve to feel the same way SA fans did?

 

I'm not going to lie. I'm as biased as they come when it comes to GTA IV. I'm no innocent angel, but I don't try and play both sides like you seem to. What's going to happen when GTA VI releases? Are you going to jump ship and try to put the GTA V fans in the worst light possible for criticizing GTA VI like you're saying about GTA IV fans now?

 

I'm sorry if this post sounds so brash, but it kind of annoys me when you say you love GTA IV (and I don't doubt you do) yet always come off as slightly biased rather than being impartial like you try to be.

[woggleman]

 

 

 

I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

 

Why are you making it sound like it's our fault some SA fans felt the way they did about GTA IV?

 

Because you guys pretty much said the same things to them that V fans are saying to people who criticize it.

 

 

So if I read this correctly it's our fault some SA fans couldn't deal with GTA IV concentrating on refining the series rather than quantity of features and because GTA V gets criticized (which might I add isn't just GTA IV fans) it means we deserve to feel the same way SA fans did?

 

I'm not going to lie. I'm as biased as they come when it comes to GTA IV. I'm no innocent angel, but I don't try and play both sides like you seem to. What's going to happen when GTA VI releases? Are you going to jump ship and try to put the GTA V fans in the worst light possible for criticizing GTA VI like you're saying about GTA IV fans now?

 

I'm sorry if this post sounds so brash, but it kind of annoys me when you say you love GTA IV (and I don't doubt you do) yet always come off as slightly biased rather than being impartial like you try to be.

 

I used to love SA with a capital L. If I added up how many hours I played it it would probably add up to a few years but the SA fans who couldn't accept that R didn't do a carbon copy of the game got on my damn nerves. III, Vice City and SA are all very different games with different kind of stories and missions plus different driving mechanics and people didn't endlessly whine but the minute IV came out people turned against because it wasn't SA 2.0 even though it was a great game in it's own right. People didn't whine because Vice City wasn't dark like III was or because the business owning in SA was much simpler than in VC.

 

Now IV fans are doing the exact same thing the SA fans did because R didn't make the same game over again. They can't accept the fact that IV was great but it has already been done and V is a new era in GTA history. It is no different than how the SA fans reacted and I am not a hypocrite. If VI comes out and people start whining that it isn't V 2.0 which I can guarantee you they will I will take the same stance.

 

The demand to do the same thing over and over again is what is killing creativity in all mediums and it didn't happen in the PS2 era like it does now. People complain that COD does the same thing over and over again and I agree but that seems to be the direction most want the GTA franchise to take. I played IV already and loved it but I wanted a new experience and I got it with V.

[Algonquin Assassin]

 

 

Now IV fans are doing the exact same thing the SA fans did because R didn't make the same game over again.

 

 

I can't speak for every GTA IV fan, but I didn't want GTA V to be a carbon copy. If you read most of my criticisms I'm more annoyed at the removal of small yet helpful mechanics introduced in GTA IV that I feel should be standard in GTA V, but I don't care if people consider them to be useless or not. I didn't want Niko coming back like the SA fanboys did with CJ, but I'm still slightly disappointed that some ideas introduced in GTA IV weren't improved on.

 

In regards to the driving I personally think they strayed too far away from GTA IV's. All GTA IV's driving needed was some work done to the suspension to reduce the extreme bodyroll, but it feels like everything is now the opposite. Everything now feels like it has rock hard suspension including old, crappy sedans. The feel of mass is poor especially with trucks that feel like plastic toy cars.

 

In saying that like I've many times before it's rather subjective. To me these new physics are hand holding. I prefer in GTA IV how cars had to be driven to limit teaching how to control oversteer/understeer, brake modulation, weight transfer etc. It all feels basic with what's in GTA V.

[woggleman]

 

 

 

Now IV fans are doing the exact same thing the SA fans did because R didn't make the same game over again.

 

 

I can't speak for every GTA IV fan, but I didn't want GTA V to be a carbon copy. If you read most of my criticisms I'm more annoyed at the removal of small yet helpful mechanics introduced in GTA IV that I feel should be standard in GTA V, but I don't care if people consider them to be useless or not. I didn't want Niko coming back like the SA fanboys did with CJ, but I'm still slightly disappointed that some ideas introduced in GTA IV weren't improved on.

 

In regards to the driving I personally think they strayed too far away from GTA IV's. All GTA IV's driving needed was some work done to the suspension to reduce the extreme bodyroll, but it feels like everything is now the opposite. Everything now feels like it has rock hard suspension including old, crappy sedans. The feel of mass is poor especially with trucks that feel like plastic toy cars.

 

In saying that like I've many times before it's rather subjective. To me these new physics are hand holding. I prefer in GTA IV how cars had to be driven to limit teaching how to control oversteer/understeer, brake modulation, weight transfer etc. It all feels basic with what's in GTA V.

 

I don't but then again don't blame people who didn't like IV's physics and prefer the old GTAs and V.

 

I just enjoy GTA on it's own merits. It's not just GTA or even games with this mentality. Creativity and experimentation used to be encouraged and now fans are more rigid than the Soviet Union.

[CHILLI]

To be honest I actually find the driving in V more aided than it was in SA. Why?

 

Simple, really. Take the Windsor from SA for example. That thing oversteers too much for its own good. It takes some skill do drive that car well.

Or the Infernus in SA. Brake too hard and all wheels will lock. That car required careful timing when it came to when braking was appropriate. It was also the king of understeer more or less.

 

Comparing that to V, oversteer nor understeer is that much of a problem anymore. Sure the Futo oversteers a lot, but it can also recover from pretty damn steep angles.

Or the sportier SUVs, heck even the trucks as SonOfLiberty mentioned. Understeer? Maybe a tiny bit, not enough to really mess up the driving. The biggest problem in V is when the entire car goes sliding but it doesnt take long to regain some kind of control.

 

R* took one step forward with the transition between SA and IV. The only real problem with IV was the body roll because it made the weight transfer and all that overly sensitive. Most cars required really touchy inputs to be driven well or it would either go sideways or understeer beyond hope. But, again, SonOfLiberty already mentioned a solution that should solve most of the problems people had: make the suspension travel shorter and perhaps a bit stiffer aswell.

If different cars would have different kind of differential locks it would make the difference between vehicle types even bigger which would add to the fun factor when driving. But what R* did was to tweak the physics in such a way that it feels like everything related to props and vehicles is in some toy-scaled world where things move really fast and pushing another vehicle is quite a challenge. Hitting a pole is dangerous on its own. But coming from IV, where one can easily slide off walls, poles and cars if hit sideways, it's just a pain in the ass to drive like a maniac.

 

Wait a sec, I think I started contradicting myself for a moment there.

The driving is too... way too responsive which leads to oversteering problems. Those seem to be fixed by making the countersteering too effective for bad driving to be punishing. But on the same time, it is painful to drive at high speeds.

Note: I come from the PC crowd, I cant drive fast if the game is running slower than 30FPS, which V tends to do half of the time from my experience with it. In other words, the response time is god-awful because it doesnt update nearly fast enough for the responses required to drive fast.

 

Eh you know what, I'll just stop right here because I dont know what to think anymore. I feel my brain melting trying to express my experience with the game.

 

TL;DR

Even SA was more punishing than V when it comes to driving. IV was a step forward compared to SA, it just needed some additional suspension tweaks to eleminate the boat-like feel. That should've been enough to make V feel that much better. Also, driving fast with a rather low framerate is a pain on its own.

[Acegunn]

Honestly I find GTA IV's Driving To be fun while I found GTA V's to be boring here's why:

 

In GTA IV at first I was like WTF is this? Why is my car so top heavy? Then after about a week of learning I started to enjoy it. I found that every car had it's own weight it's own feel around corners and on straightaways. I found cars to be characters in themselfs and boy where they fun whiping around corners in CVPI's and Banshee's and I spent hours finding the "sweet spot" in each car's handling til' I "mastered" the handling of the car. Man that was fun! Going as fast as possible and intentally spinning out doing 2 to 3 reverse 180's and recovering was what I would do every time I was the road on the west side of Central Park.

 

Now enter GTA V.

 

Cars now have nearly the same grip and has basically none of the character like it had in GTA IV.

It sucked the fun of driving.

 

I now prefer to fly in GTA V because it's now more fun then driving less of the same B.S. and N.O.E. flying is hair rising and takes actual skill you screw up you die, no better thrill then that.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

Basically IV split the GTA fanbase right down the middle and R had to decide which one to alienate and which one to satisfy. There was no way this game was going to make everybody happy with that polarization. I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

I'm done. Shut up, please woggleman, your points are terrible and you are a total pest.

[woggleman]

 

Basically IV split the GTA fanbase right down the middle and R had to decide which one to alienate and which one to satisfy. There was no way this game was going to make everybody happy with that polarization. I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

I'm done. Shut up, please woggleman, your points are terrible and you are a total pest.

 

It's the truth. IV fans are now the same as SA fanboys.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

Let me debunk your claims. I don't want V to be a carbon copy of IV, I just wanted driving that would give me some lovely feedback. It did not have to be straight out of IV.

 

Secondly, because I am pissed towards V driving and have my own opinion, that makes me similar to an SA fanboy back in 2008? Lastly; man you are biased as f*ck. The opinions you do not like are not legit enough according to you.

 

You do not respond like a normal person when I take the piss at you, you ignore any points made... you are a troll!

[woggleman]

Let me debunk your claims. I don't want V to be a carbon copy of IV, I just wanted driving that would give me some lovely feedback. It did not have to be straight out of IV.

 

Secondly, because I am pissed towards V driving and have my own opinion, that makes me similar to an SA fanboy back in 2008? Lastly; man you are biased as f*ck. The opinions you do not like are not legit enough according to you.

 

You do not respond like a normal person when I take the piss at you, you ignore any points made... you are a troll!

A lot of the SA fans did not share your favorable views on the driving when IV came out. They thought it was unforgiving and cars handle too much like boats and they were too slidey. You might disagree but it was a view that a good number of people held. Now people who liked IV's driving are mad that R changed things and they react the same way SA fans did.

 

This is why I think there should be an option to choose which kind of driving a player wants and that way everybody is happy since people will never agree which one is better.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

Funny because I had already made that suggestion if you had read the last page.

[woggleman]

Funny because I had already made that suggestion if you had read the last page.

I agree with it but I still don't think it will make people happy. Look at how many people complain auto aim even though there is an option to turn it off. Look at how many complain that there are checkpoints or that there is an option to skip missions. Any concessions at all to the masses are looked down upon by hardcore gamers.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

Oh well? Too bad.

[suicidehummer]

 

Let me debunk your claims. I don't want V to be a carbon copy of IV, I just wanted driving that would give me some lovely feedback. It did not have to be straight out of IV.

 

Secondly, because I am pissed towards V driving and have my own opinion, that makes me similar to an SA fanboy back in 2008? Lastly; man you are biased as f*ck. The opinions you do not like are not legit enough according to you.

 

You do not respond like a normal person when I take the piss at you, you ignore any points made... you are a troll!

A lot of the SA fans did not share your favorable views on the driving when IV came out. They thought it was unforgiving and cars handle too much like boats and they were too slidey. You might disagree but it was a view that a good number of people held. Now people who liked IV's driving are mad that R changed things and they react the same way SA fans did.

 

This is why I think there should be an option to choose which kind of driving a player wants and that way everybody is happy since people will never agree which one is better.

 

The difference is that if they stopped bitching and learned how to drive properly, they would have no problem with it. You can't make a huge leap forward in quality and then go back to square 1, completely ignoring the progress that was made. This is a legitimate reason to be upset, refusing to learn how to drive properly is not. End of story.

[woggleman]

 

 

Let me debunk your claims. I don't want V to be a carbon copy of IV, I just wanted driving that would give me some lovely feedback. It did not have to be straight out of IV.

 

Secondly, because I am pissed towards V driving and have my own opinion, that makes me similar to an SA fanboy back in 2008? Lastly; man you are biased as f*ck. The opinions you do not like are not legit enough according to you.

 

You do not respond like a normal person when I take the piss at you, you ignore any points made... you are a troll!

A lot of the SA fans did not share your favorable views on the driving when IV came out. They thought it was unforgiving and cars handle too much like boats and they were too slidey. You might disagree but it was a view that a good number of people held. Now people who liked IV's driving are mad that R changed things and they react the same way SA fans did.

 

This is why I think there should be an option to choose which kind of driving a player wants and that way everybody is happy since people will never agree which one is better.

 

The difference is that if they stopped bitching and learned how to drive properly, they would have no problem with it. You can't make a huge leap forward in quality and then go back to square 1, completely ignoring the progress that was made. This is a legitimate reason to be upset, refusing to learn how to drive properly is not. End of story.

 

So your reasons are legitimate but there's are not ? To them they have just as much of a reason to complain as you.

[Algonquin Assassin]

There doesn't even need to be an option. Surely it can't be too hard to find a medium which IMO GTA V failed to do. Like I said before I feel all GTA IV's driving needed was the suspension to be toned down so there wouldn't be so much bodyroll, but now GTA V feels like it's gone in the opposite direction with everything feeling like they lack shock absorbers.

 

I admit GTA V's physics aren't as arcadish as some games, but after being exposed to such technical and unique physics (in the open world context) it's no wonder some people don't like this decison.

 

In ways I find it funny how we (GTA IV fans) get accused of wanting GTA V to be a carbon copy of GTA IV, but GTA V (not just in regards to driving) tries to be like the 3D GTAs. At least GTA IV is different.

[woggleman]

They went back to that style because that was what many people said they wanted.

 

If you guys want to see arcadey then play Saints Row. I love the series but there is nothing realistic about any of it.

[SinceNES]

@woggleman: Stop. Just stop.

 

You've made dozens and dozens of posts in this thread and have only made about three points. If you want a response, try your memory or reread the responses already given to you. The points you make are simple and blatant logical fallacies. Different criticisms aren't automatically equally valid. Especially when one of those criticisms isn't even a critique on the game, but rather an observation of the critic's lack of ability and the will to learn and play the game. So stop putting people in the same boat simply because they have complaints. It's almost like you're suggesting a game company can listen to any critic's ideas, incorporate them into a game, and it wouldn't matter since everybody's perspective is equally valid. Are you really so foolish? Are you not familiar with the concept of coherency? Or do you simply not care about the quality of video games?

 

Seriously, post after post of yours read like you rather play a game that sold more copies than a game that tried to be as good as it could be. You constantly defend Rockstar for trying to listen to the most popular complaints, as if the game's success even depended on the driving physics. It plainly did not, as shown by rapid sales upon release. The game was already slated to outsell all previous titles. The game could have had massive sales without conforming to the needs of the masses.

 

Now you are posting as if the people who are criticizing GTAV are the ones pushing the game towards conformity, when we are criticizing Rockstar for conforming GTAV to old standards and the deficiencies of incompetent gamers, rather than staying true to their own vision. One that used to always evolve and have more sophistication than its peers.

 

Your posts are repetitive and nonsense. So please; make a point that you haven't already made or stop posting.

Edited February 12, 2014 by SinceNES

[suicidehummer]

[B Dawg]

There doesn't even need to be an option. Surely it can't be too hard to find a medium which IMO GTA V failed to do. Like I said before I feel all GTA IV's driving needed was the suspension to be toned down so there wouldn't be so much bodyroll, but now GTA V feels like it's gone in the opposite direction with everything feeling like they lack shock absorbers.

 

I admit GTA V's physics aren't as arcadish as some games, but after being exposed to such technical and unique physics (in the open world context) it's no wonder some people don't like this decison.

 

In ways I find it funny how we (GTA IV fans) get accused of wanting GTA V to be a carbon copy of GTA IV, but GTA V (not just in regards to driving) tries to be like the 3D GTAs. At least GTA IV is different.

It should have been GTA IV slightly modified, with GTA V's bullsh*t introduced in tuning shops. ABS? Super derp suspension? Get some money and tune your car.

[The Odyssey]

 

Basically IV split the GTA fanbase right down the middle and R had to decide which one to alienate and which one to satisfy. There was no way this game was going to make everybody happy with that polarization. I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

I'm done. Shut up, please woggleman, your points are terrible and you are a total pest.

I like how when you can't be bothered arguing with someone anymore, you just call them an idiot and tell them you can't be bothered with them.

[ViceCityStalker]

It sucks but I can deal I hope for the next one they incorporate drive technology now that would be awesome!

[Wanderglobe]

its pretty unrealistic but i f*cking love it. If it had IVs damage and still this hard of cops, we would need 20 cars to get away cause they would destroy it within 3 hits

 

Perhaps with some rides but I own a VW bus and I swiped one in the game yesterday and it was pretty realistic. Barely able to pass. Bogs down going up hills. Top speed of about 60 MPH after 5 minutes of getting up to speed. It's fun.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

 

 

Basically IV split the GTA fanbase right down the middle and R had to decide which one to alienate and which one to satisfy. There was no way this game was going to make everybody happy with that polarization. I guess IV fans now know how SA fans felt when IV came out.

I'm done. Shut up, please woggleman, your points are terrible and you are a total pest.

I like how when you can't be bothered arguing with someone anymore, you just call them an idiot and tell them you can't be bothered with them.

I'm glad you do. Woggleman has been exposed to my explanations so many timez yet he still says the same thing over and over. Clearly I should just stop arguing with him because he is like a stubborn mule. Its not like I am going to be nice to him and break down my points every time I respond to him, I am honestly tired of him. I should hit the ignore button on him but then again reading replies to a hilarious post he made would only make me want see the actual post.

[suicidehummer]

I like how when you can't be bothered arguing with someone anymore, you just call them an idiot and tell them you can't be bothered with them.

Please go read the multiple posts where his uninformed views were repeatedly debunked. There's a huge difference between getting tired of explaining something to someone who refuses to listen and giving up because you know you're wrong. Don't butt in if you haven't even followed the discussion. Edited February 16, 2014 by Andreas
Removed quote-train.