Dan Houser about no female Protagonists - OXM

[Cilogy]

There's no real reason why Rockstar couldn't make a game with multiple protagonists and have one of the characters be a woman. There are of course plenty of women involved in crime at all kinds of levels. Even the clichéd crime movie tropes that GTA works best with have plenty of examples of women in crime fiction. There is the popular 'hooker with the heart of gold' or the 'schemer' or the 'gangster's moll' archetypes that they could easily work with, and that's without even getting in to the realms of reality.

 

This could also potentially garner more interest from women in GTA, although that's highly speculative of course.

 

It wouldn't work though if a woman was the only lead character. Primarily because we aren't used to seeing women performing the kind of actions that GTA protagonists do, and GTA is a game that has always played upon popular social concepts and Hollywood tropes. So the gameplay would have to be different, which would have a negative effect if a woman was the only playable character.

 

Also, most of the current GTA gamers are male. Sure it's one thing to watch a movie or even read a novel wherein the lead character is a woman, but in a game it's slightly different. The need to identify with a character in a game is slightly different. To a certain extent, a game avatar is an extension of the self, through which your actions and agency are represented. This is why when you tell your friend about something that happened in game you would say "I jacked a cop car" this is because it's your actions that are represented. You wouldn't say "Niko jacked a cop car" because you aren't just watching a character do something, you are assuming the role of that character and your identity is represented to a certain extent through them from a psychological perspective.

 

That's why most men find it slighlty more difficult to identify with a female character. That's why if you have the choice of character on any game, most men will make a male character, although i'm sure that social convention plays a significant part in this too. men typically will feel more comfortable playing as a male avatar.

 

So yes, having a woman as one of multiple characters could work just fine. But having a woman as a sole lead would be a mistake i feel...

 

Oh yeah and of course girls are stupid and have cooties etc...

Great points.

 

Look at the character Michelle Rodriguez plays in the Fast & Furious films. Now that's a female character that would fit well in the GTA world.

[Acetaminophen]

Jesus F*cking christ! You guys act like females are cancer! This isn't about being PC this isn't about being equal I just think it would be an interesting change for the Grand Theft Auto Series. Also I want to point out I am NOT a feminist I actually disagree with a lot of feminist acts. But in this thread it is to the point of being completely pathetic, hateful and just down right sexist.

 

This is my last post on this topic. I'm done talking to people who have insecurity's about something so trivial.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Acetaminophen

[walkingsickness]

Don't we have like 27 topics like this? And it always ends up with the same notion.

"Girls don't play game like this, the only males who want this is ones to see ass and

boobs bounce up and down, women protags don't fit a game like this"

 

This is one of these topics that everyone knows how its going to end. Why come up

with another one is beyond me...

[GuantanamoObama]

I'm f*cking sick and tired of this feminist agenda.

 

You women want a lead character in a GTA so badly? Enjoy when she's a post op tranny, since ya know those are women too apparently. Sick f*cks.

This.

 

I have no interest whatsoever in playing as a woman.

[zainzombie]

I'm not being sexist or anything but I'm glad to read that.

 

Last game I played with a female protagonist was tomb raider, great game.. I really enjoyed controlling her BUT I prefer male protags who I can relate with.

[theworldfamous]

agreed games need more female protagonists. agreed GTA V isn't the game for it,

[Ertrick36]

Just when I thought the forum had begun to elevate itself.

 

Not really sure why the topic exists. I didn't see anything about a female lead in any of the quoting.

 

Furthermore, if the housers came up with a cool story with 3 guys, then good for them. If one of those is a woman in the future, which will happen eventually (just like a female US president), good, but don't shoehorn a woman into a role written for a male character just to say it's been done.

 

As if a majority of gamers shun a game purely because of a female protagonist at this point anyway. Look at the new tomb raider: massively overrated.

 

I'll add: women can be masculine, too. Really reaching there.

This is how I feel on the topic. And that is why I don't agree with Dan Houser.

 

Oh my heart bleeds for the prisoners out in the salt flats! Those murders and rapist really deserve better conditions! /sarcasm

 

OT: I think the reason for the lack of a lot of female protags is the vast majority of consumers are male and don't connect as much to female protags than they would males. Simply put, there's no mass market for it in general.

 

btw, I really like the way Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim handled female protags.

Yes, I liked how they handled the female protagonists in those two games up until fourth party developers invaded the games and turned their female characters into a bunch of whores with guns and swords.

 

There's no real reason why Rockstar couldn't make a game with multiple protagonists and have one of the characters be a woman. There are of course plenty of women involved in crime at all kinds of levels. Even the clichéd crime movie tropes that GTA works best with have plenty of examples of women in crime fiction. There is the popular 'hooker with the heart of gold' or the 'schemer' or the 'gangster's moll' archetypes that they could easily work with, and that's without even getting in to the realms of reality.

 

This could also potentially garner more interest from women in GTA, although that's highly speculative of course.

 

It wouldn't work though if a woman was the only lead character. Primarily because we aren't used to seeing women performing the kind of actions that GTA protagonists do, and GTA is a game that has always played upon popular social concepts and Hollywood tropes. So the gameplay would have to be different, which would have a negative effect if a woman was the only playable character.

 

Also, most of the current GTA gamers are male. Sure it's one thing to watch a movie or even read a novel wherein the lead character is a woman, but in a game it's slightly different. The need to identify with a character in a game is slightly different. To a certain extent, a game avatar is an extension of the self, through which your actions and agency are represented. This is why when you tell your friend about something that happened in game you would say "I jacked a cop car" this is because it's your actions that are represented. You wouldn't say "Niko jacked a cop car" because you aren't just watching a character do something, you are assuming the role of that character and your identity is represented to a certain extent through them from a psychological perspective.

 

That's why most men find it slighlty more difficult to identify with a female character. That's why if you have the choice of character on any game, most men will make a male character, although i'm sure that social convention plays a significant part in this too. men typically will feel more comfortable playing as a male avatar.

 

So yes, having a woman as one of multiple characters could work just fine. But having a woman as a sole lead would be a mistake i feel...

 

Oh yeah and of course girls are stupid and have cooties etc...

Kudos man. I never really thought about the part as to why most men would want to play as a male. To me, ever since I was an adolescent, I've always liked playing as characters who aren't like me, in either personality or in demographics, so I've never really understood why the idea of playing as yourself was appealing to others. And having a female character as one of the protagonists would, IMO, have been a nice way to ease gamers who are a bit uncomfortable with the prospect of female protagonists into being okay with playing as female characters (except for the evidently sexist people on here who are too afraid to try something a bit new). Though still, I'm really excited to play as Trevor; he's going to be a riot

 

My own slice on this whole debate: I probably hate most of you, so I might as well not even bother. Most people who debate on this topic just sound idiotic and intollerant to me. And no, I'm not going to present my reasons as to why I think this.

[JOSEPH X]

I've said this in numerous threads about this subject - the reason Rockstar don't have female leads is that they just can't write them. It's not only protagonists either, they don't have decent or beleivable female NPCs. They are just boys, and when you play their games you are viewing the world through the eyes of an adolescent male fantasist.

[Single Double Barrel]

In a perfect world feminists were to make their own games if they want female, handicapped, lesbian or whatever protagonists. But since feminists in general are pathetic losers who do nothing else but sit at their universities spurting out nonsense about how bad white men are nothing good will ever come from those cretins.

 

I by the way support a female protagonist, if she were to fit into the story in a good way. Women just for visual pleasure or meeting a gender quota, no thanks.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Single Double Barrel

[Cilogy]

Absolutely no insecurity here. Quite the opposite in fact. I'm a proud white male. I love what I was born as and I do my best to hold true to the nature of my being. My girlfriend attests to this and is quite happy about my masculinity and dominance as well. She is also quite happy to embrace her natural form, which is to be a submissive female. It goes together perfectly like fitting pieces to a puzzle together, a really simple puzzle. This is what disgusts me, is how simple nature and life are, yet these sick people try so hard to warp it into their own disgusting twisted fetishes and desires.

 

I weep for the future where my boys will have to grow up in a world where embracing your natural gift of masculinity is considered shameful and maybe even a crime.

You sound like a character straight from GTA.

[Infinityfq]

It doesn't really matter, if Rockstar wanted or had to make a fem protagonist then they would pull it off.

[davetopper]

 

 

Snippence none the richer

 

Nice try but these adolescent boys will just attack this beyond reason. Frankly I do not see a problem but then again I am an old guy.

[TheKrigeron]

You will be able to play with a you Online Character in SP I think, so if you want to make a woman tranvestite or anything then go ahead and enjoy yourself

 

As for this whole "Controversy" I only one word to contribute, I think it will solve the issue and tie the lose ends:

 

meh

 

[Moe36]

R* should take another note from Saints Row and let the player design their protag.. just sayin

 

thats what gta online is for though...

[Guest]

A female gangbanger? That's stupidly unrealistic. No female in the gangbanging world will ever get high up in the criminal world.

A female retired bank robber? She'd be an old lady without any strength. And give me an example of a female bank robber who didn't immediately get arrested.

A female Trevor? If that were the case, all the feminists would complain "ALL WOMEN ARE NOT LIKE THAT GTA SHOULD BA BANNED I WANT EQUALITY".

 

 

Just to clear that up a little bit.

[98 in 1]

 

 

 

Snippence none the richer

 

Nice try but these adolescent boys will just attack this beyond reason. Frankly I do not see a problem but then again I am an old guy.

 

What you did there, I see it.

 

 

In regards to a female protag, I don't care either way. For R*, its one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.

[Mr Shade]

 

I honestly just don't feel like a female protagonist would fit a gta game...

 

Just make a female character when online comes out...

 

Exactly, they won't fit.

 

Unless they change the name from GTA to something else. Last time I checked you almost always have to physically rip someone out of a car in a GTA game to perform the action that the title of the game is named after. How can a naturally born female weighing in at less than 120lbs and standing at a mighty 5'3, rip a grown adult male out of his car against his will?

 

The answer: she can't.

 

But MUH FEMINISM and MUH EQUALITY. It's a f*cking video game. It tells a story that the writers want. But because these social justice c*nts push so hard for this sh*t in videogames as if it matters, now you better believe this will be the last GTA game to not have it's content be forcefully altered due to these social justice c*nts. They will eventually break down and shoe-horn a female character into the game just because the feminazis and transgender wackjobs demand it. Unbelievable.

Jesus f*cking christ the amount of edgy 13 year olds on this forum is unbelievable!

[brian.]

 

Jesus f*cking christ the amount of edgy 13 year olds on this forum is unbelievable!

 

 

I take it you must be one of them? Where is your content? Can you speak to the discussion, or are you just here to point and giggle?

 

And hey, no offense - just now I for one would like to read your input, since I had to read that output.

Edited September 10, 2013 by brian.

[s373ns]

Maybe.... A Kill Bill type chick in GTA: Tokyo?

[DymeDef]

 

I honestly just don't feel like a female protagonist would fit a gta game...

 

Just make a female character when online comes out...

Exactly, they won't fit.

 

Unless they change the name from GTA to something else. Last time I checked you almost always have to physically rip someone out of a car in a GTA game to perform the action that the title of the game is named after. How can a naturally born female weighing in at less than 120lbs and standing at a mighty 5'3, rip a grown adult male out of his car against his will?

 

The answer: she can't.

 

But MUH FEMINISM and MUH EQUALITY. It's a f*cking video game. It tells a story that the writers want. But because these social justice c*nts push so hard for this sh*t in videogames as if it matters, now you better believe this will be the last GTA game to not have it's content be forcefully altered due to these social justice c*nts. They will eventually break down and shoe-horn a female character into the game just because the feminazis and transgender wackjobs demand it. Unbelievable.

 

Lol, you are quite sexist. Not that it matters what gender someone is, I know of plenty of women who would likely beat you into a pulp. Hell, the UFC has a womens division. There are women power lifters, many women compete in other types of lifting competitions. You act like males are the superior gender, when both have massive flaws.

 

Stop being an egotistical dipsh*t. The sh*t you spew is complete trash, I would bet you are just some scrawny kid who got picked on in school. Grow the f*ck up.

[Ashelia]

I’m simply a lurker but I see this debate constantly for games so I just wanted to share my own view as a female gamer whose life doesn't revolve around the beliefs of feminism.

 

Seeing a woman in a game doesn’t get me excited to play, its just a biological characteristic that explains nothing and isn’t a bonding factor. What makes me excited to play is the same thing as when I see a game with a male protag; the gameplay, the storyline and the motives of the character. Sure it helps if he’s a gruff jacked dude as that’s visually appealing to me but without being properly written he’s just an expensive pin up. Rockstar like other great companies understands that what motivates a character and why a player should care is far more important to creating a great protag than just them looking like their target demo. Thats why protags don't all look like the majority of players and even when they share the same gender, race, etc it isn't a horrible thing when its a male. Playing as a white or male anything shouldn't deem a game unplayable or be a sign of intolerance if one expects mass acceptance of the gender, race, and religion they want to see playable. More choices are good but not when its carried out as a vendetta.

 

So anyway time and time again R* has proven that they can write understandable characters within and beyond just a straight white male without compromising their players. They didn't have to do this yet from GTA1 to now they keep creating diverse interesting casts without being forced and guess what? It f*cking works. Why? Because its a genuine effort on their part as creativity works best when it comes from the heart not at a figurative gun point.

 

So if Houser felt this story needed to be told by 3 different men then so be it as no where in that does he show a disdain for women or anyone else not like Michael, Trevor or Franklin. If R* wants a female protag for future titles to be added to their list of already established female criminals and side characters then fine, there should be no doubts in their ability to do that but if they never do then thats okay too. They're games are not bound to the rules of what others deem equal just like they don't dictate how any other game or work must be made to their standards.

 

Game companies shouldn't have to bow to the inconsistent whims of a much smaller group that doesn't even know what it wants in females. Nor should designers be ashamed for the content they create the moment no woman is playable or when boobs are a size one deems unacceptable are involved. Doing the reverse to what females like/create is rarely done or accepted by mainstream “gaming journalists” so it shouldn’t be when the target is what men like to create.

 

Thats all I wanted to post. Can't wait to play in less than a week!!

Edited September 10, 2013 by Ashelia

[WorldWideFM]

There is a shocking amount of sexism in this thread, and I say this as someone who is pretty right wing - but then what more do you expect from ten year old fanboys?

 

I for one would love to see a female protagonist in a future GTA game and can see it working fantastically with multiple protagonists if they choose to follow that route again. There's so much you can explore (from a writer's perspective) with a female character in a GTA style world.

[Bonnano]

Women in GTA has always been the product for sex and killing, and should always stay that way, I love hearing the sexism on the radio from GTA IV, especially from Just or Unjust.

[DaRkL3AD3R]

I’m simply a lurker but I see this debate constantly for games so I just wanted to share my own view as a female gamer whose life doesn't revolve around the beliefs of feminism.

 

Seeing a woman in a game doesn’t get me excited to play, its just a biological characteristic that explains nothing and isn’t a bonding factor. What makes me excited to play is the same thing as when I see a game with a male protag; the gameplay, the storyline and the motives of the character. Sure it helps if he’s a gruff jacked dude as that’s visually appealing to me but without being properly written he’s just an expensive pin up. Rockstar like other great companies understands that what motivates a character and why a player should care is far more important to creating a great protag than just them looking like their target demo. Thats why protags don't all look like the majority of players and even when they share the same gender, race, etc it isn't a horrible thing when its a male. Playing as a white or male anything shouldn't deem a game unplayable or be a sign of intolerance if one expects mass acceptance of the gender, race, and religion they want to see playable. More choices are good but not when its carried out as a vendetta.

 

So anyway time and time again R* has proven that they can write understandable characters within and beyond just a straight white male without compromising their players. They didn't have to do this yet from GTA1 to now they keep creating diverse interesting casts without being forced and guess what? It f*cking works. Why? Because its a genuine effort on their part as creativity works best when it comes from the heart not at a figurative gun point.

 

So if Houser felt this story needed to be told by 3 different men then so be it as no where in that does he show a disdain for women or anyone else not like Michael, Trevor or Franklin. If R* wants a female protag for future titles to be added to their list of already established female criminals and side characters then fine, there should be no doubts in their ability to do that but if they never do then thats okay too. They're games are not bound to the rules of what others deem equal just like they don't dictate how any other game or work must be made to their standards.

 

Game companies shouldn't have to bow to the inconsistent whims of a much smaller group that doesn't even know what it wants in females. Nor should designers be ashamed for the content they create the moment no woman is playable or when boobs are a size one deems unacceptable are involved. Doing the reverse to what females like/create is rarely done or accepted by mainstream “gaming journalists” so it shouldn’t be when the target is what men like to create.

 

Thats all I wanted to post. Can't wait to play in less than a week!!

Great post and I am glad to hear from a woman who can appreciate a proper story that is not simply working around shoe-horning in characters of a certain gender just to appease a minority.

 

I hope you enjoy GTA V. Have fun.

[HiddenStreet]

Maybe a DLC protagonist, sure.

Edited September 11, 2013 by HiddenStreet

[Nitor3100]

If R* puts a female protagonist in the game I'll never buy any of their games ever again.

 

 

feminists destroyed the western civilization

[RonDutch]

If the majority wants it, You will have it. But the majority doesnt feel like playing as a women. So end of discussion.

[Get_Head_Ed]

 

 

I'm f*cking sick and tired of this feminist agenda.

 

You women want a lead character in a GTA so badly? Enjoy when she's a post op tranny, since ya know those are women too apparently. Sick f*cks.

How about you let people want what they want and GTFO.

 

By your logic then people should be entitled to want what they want, and not have to worry about bowing before these social justice fa**ots. Dan Houser should want male protagonists in his games and no one should be allowed to force him into changing it to females just to appease other people.

 

But guess what? It'll happen. Because there is no equality here. These people, the LGBT crowd and feminists, they are above you and me. They have more rights than us. Their words carry more weight. The irony is incredibly strong with this one.

 

 

Very well said. I applaud you!

[Get_Head_Ed]

 

I'm f*cking sick and tired of this feminist agenda.

 

You women want a lead character in a GTA so badly? Enjoy when she's a post op tranny, since ya know those are women too apparently. Sick f*cks.

 

Post-op MTF transexuals are women, you dumb c*nt. Get some respect.

 

 

Nope, their internal anatomy begs to differ. They may have primary and secondary female sex organs, but they still have the muscle and bone structure of a man.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Get_Head_Ed

[FirstLadyofGTA]

There is so much insecurity in this thread it might as well be nominated to run in the Republican primaries.

LOL...I know right, it's hilarious. I particularly like the use of the word feminazi by one of those individuals in their long winded misogynist rant....nice that he took time out from listening to Rush Limbaugh to post on the GTA forums. LOL.