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Do you think TLAD promoted realism for GTA?


Fidzy
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I know this is a pointless topic but all there's a lot of people trying to sue and file lawsuits against Rockstar Games for making video games too violent and promoting law breaking, theft and all the other nonsense with the result of becoming rich and at the top of the crime ladder.

 

What if Rockstar's main (or a primary) intention was to show realism and what would actually happen if this were to happen? As displeasing the ending was, that's what would happen to 99.9% of the people who'd try something like it.

 

I mean, Rockstar would be trying to get Redemption (not Red Dead ;)) for the series and show the people that don't support the franchise that it's just a game and that's where it stands. With Johnny, his days were near enough over.

The Clubhouse was burnt down, his brothers all seperated and he was in bad ties with the Pegorino family, although that may not matter since Niko/Dimitri took out Jimmy Pegorino in the original version. He was left with a house that was trashed and near to falling apart, and only a few of his friends.

← Reveals ending information

 

I don't want to tell you all what happened since the majority of you reading do, and I reckon I've gone a bit off topic but uh yeah if you're lost reading this then I'd suggest re-reading the first two paragraphs. What are your takes on this..?

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  • 7 years later...

TLAD introduced new bike handling mechanics so in that sense it feels more realistic since bike riding is a central part of the game 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hell no, there's nothing realistic about breaking into a prison just to shoot a guy and escaping without any repercussions 

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On 10/4/2020 at 2:47 AM, Diwhrvifbs said:

TLAD introduced new bike handling mechanics so in that sense it feels more realistic since bike riding is a central part of the game 

no way
all they changed is turned down a chance to fall from a bike

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On 10/23/2020 at 4:41 AM, universetwisters said:

Hell no, there's nothing realistic about breaking into a prison just to shoot a guy and escaping without any repercussions 

Stubbs gave them a get in and out of jail free card :D

Edited by B Dawg
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  • 2 weeks later...

I think , as per whole, yeah. Why not? Afterall, that's the criminal struggle, and in the end we saw what happened to Johnny K. 

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I really don't like using "realism" to describe any video game because well it's a game and it's never going to be truly realistic, but just like GTA IV, TLAD is definitely more grounded and sensible for the most part. Obviously it's not realistic to break into a prison to kill one guy and not get any consequences from it, but TLAD maintains consistency and isn't tonally jumping all over the place like some GTA games do.

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5 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

I really don't like using "realism" to describe any video game because well it's a game and it's never going to be truly realistic, but just like GTA IV, TLAD is definitely more grounded and sensible for the most part. Obviously it's not realistic to break into a prison to kill one guy and not get any consequences from it, but TLAD maintains consistency and isn't tonally jumping all over the place like some GTA games do.

Apart from the main game, TLAD is the only expansion that I consider worth playing.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Excluding the final mission, yeah, it did, in a very good way that doesn't fall under the "realistic, but boring" type of gameplay too in my opinion.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I forgot both the airport shootout missions (the one with the drug mule and the one where you wack stubb’s uncle) could in no way shape or form be done in a post 9/11 world without repercussions like the prison mission

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On 10/25/2020 at 6:10 PM, Cr0ssm said:

All of gta iv was gritty and real, and opened doors that gta V didnt seem to interested in walking through

Its because lots of people bitched about IV and TLAD being too dark. TBOGT was already very lighthearted, GTA V simply continued that

 

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21 hours ago, FanEu7 said:

Its because lots of people bitched about IV and TLAD being too dark. TBOGT was already very lighthearted, GTA V simply continued that

 

 

I think TBOGT was meant to be lighthearted from the start tho. 

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1 hour ago, universetwisters said:

 

I think TBOGT was meant to be lighthearted from the start tho. 

 

I doubt it was meant to be this goofy from the start tbh. It makes sense that its not as dark as IV and TLAD but they made it as ridiculous as possible. Its clearly a reaction to the criticism IV got. We have parachutes, some sort of tank, lots of crazy missions, goofy characters, nothing is serious etc.

 

And since TBOGT got a positive reception they continued that with GTA V but at least with the latter it was a new game. TBOGT just feels off as part of the GTA IV Trilogy and the writing is weaker than in V as well.

Edited by FanEu7
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MiamiViceCity1986
On 1/1/2021 at 8:05 AM, FanEu7 said:

 

I doubt it was meant to be this goofy from the start tbh. It makes sense that its not as dark as IV and TLAD but they made it as ridiculous as possible. Its clearly a reaction to the criticism IV got. We have parachutes, some sort of tank, lots of crazy missions, goofy characters, nothing is serious etc.

 

And since TBOGT got a positive reception they continued that with GTA V but at least with the latter it was a new game. TBOGT just feels off as part of the GTA IV Trilogy and the writing is weaker than in V as well.


I don’t agree with this. I really believe R* intended to make TBOGT the way it was from the start. I used to think it was a reaction to people bitching and complaining about GTA IV not being “fun”, but over time I’ve come to realise that is quite ridiculous the more I think about it.

 

So they released GTA IV in 2008 and waited months to see the reaction from players before settling on a direction they wanted to go with TBOGT? If that’s the case why is TLAD just as dark, serious etc as GTA IV and it came first if player feedback was so important? Infact TLAD shouldn’t even exist if TBOGT was a reaction to negative GTA IV press, but it does.
 

To me it feels like TBOGT was an experiment of sorts R* wanted to see how it would offset the two prior, more serious games with something more light hearted and vibrant. 
 

Either way it’s still not as good as GTA IV and TLAD to me, but the more time that passes the more I realise that that’s legitimately what R* wanted to make instead of players dictating through their bitching and complaining. GTA V on the other hand is a completely different story.

Edited by Algonquin Assassin
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19 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:


I don’t agree with this. I really believe R* intended to make TBOGT the way it was from the start. I used to think it was a reaction to people bitching and complaining about GTA IV not being “fun”, but over time I’ve come to realise that is quite ridiculous the more I think about it.

 

So they released GTA IV in 2008 and waited months to see the reaction from players before settling on a direction they wanted to go with TBOGT? If that’s the case why is TLAD just as dark, serious etc as GTA IV and it came first if player feedback was so important? Infact TLAD shouldn’t even exist if TBOGT was a reaction to negative GTA IV press, but it does.
 

To me it feels like TBOGT was an experiment of sorts R* wanted to see how it would offset the two prior, more serious games with something more light hearted and vibrant. 
 

Either way it’s still not as good as GTA IV and TLAD to me, but the more time that passes the more I realise that that’s legitimately what R* wanted to make instead of players dictating through their bitching and complaining. GTA V on the other hand is a completely different story.

 

They had more time for TBOGT, with TLAD it was probably too late to change the direction. I don't doubt that TBOGT was always supposed to be more lighthearted but not to this level. Like look at Bulgarin who is suddenly wacky or Yusuf who was forshadowed as this serious businessman in IV. Not to mention the missions, almost every mission is designed to be as over the top as possible. 

 

If TBOGT is exactly what they wanted to do from the beginning I don't see how GTA V is a different story? It continues TBOGT's more over the top and lighthearted style in basically every way..both are the extreme opposite of GTA IV and TLAD

Edited by FanEu7
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No, Grand Theft Auto IV did. But The Lost and Damned followed.

 

The Ballad of Gay Tony, however...

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MiamiViceCity1986
10 hours ago, FanEu7 said:

 

They had more time for TBOGT, with TLAD it was probably too late to change the direction. I don't doubt that TBOGT was always supposed to be more lighthearted but not to this level. Like look at Bulgarin who is suddenly wacky or Yusuf who was forshadowed as this serious businessman in IV. Not to mention the missions, almost every mission is designed to be as over the top as possible. 

 

 

I don't see how a couple of characters being whacky is proof. What about Brucie then? In GTA IV he's over the top, eccentric etc yet in TBOGT he's pretty much the opposite and there are other characters from GTA IV who appear in TBOGT that haven't changed at all. I don't know why they changed Bulgarin or why Yusuf appears to be to be the opposite of a serious businessman how he was portrayed in GTA IV, but I strongly doubt they were made that way to appeal to those that didn't like GTA IV and TLAD being "serious".

 

And can I just say while I get that TBOGT is over the top and more light hearted it still follows many of the HD era guidelines that were established with GTA IV? Take the side missions and activities for example. Mostly they're "crafted" to reflect Luis' own interests, skills etc just like the side missions/activities do for Niko and Johnny. If it was meant to be a call back to the "good ole" days of the 3D era like people think it is we'd have random sh*t like being a pizzaboy, firefighter, paramedic etc.

 

There were always two DLCs planned for GTA IV and pre-release they were developed right along side. I don't buy into the excuse they had longer to work with TBOGT and it was too late for TLAD (WTF?) because that makes no sense at all. Just like TBOGT, TLAD's intended direction was set in stone and they were never going to deviate from it.

 

Anyway you're free of course to assume/speculate and I'm not trying to change that, but I'd rather use facts to support my argument.

 

 

10 hours ago, FanEu7 said:

 

 

If TBOGT is exactly what they wanted to do from the beginning I don't see how GTA V is a different story? It continues TBOGT's more over the top and lighthearted style in basically every way..both are the extreme opposite of GTA IV and TLAD

 

By that I mean it's obvious player feedback was used more for GTA V. Look at the driving for example. People bitched and complained that the driving was too "boat" like in GTA IV so they changed it, people bitched and complained about not being able to explore countryside in GTA IV so they added it to GTA V.

 

GTA V is a full fledged game so of course R* would take player feedback more into consideration rather than base its entire direction off of a short DLC.

Edited by Algonquin Assassin
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59 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

 

I don't see how a couple of characters being whacky is proof. What about Brucie then? In GTA IV he's over the top, eccentric etc yet in TBOGT he's pretty much the opposite and there are other characters from GTA IV who appear in TBOGT that haven't changed at all. I don't know why they changed Bulgarin or why Yusuf appears to be to be the opposite of a serious businessman how he was portrayed in GTA IV, but I strongly doubt they were made that way to appeal to those that didn't like GTA IV and TLAD being "serious".

 

And can I just say while I get that TBOGT is over the top and more light hearted it still follows many of the HD era guidelines that were established with GTA IV? Take the side missions and activities for example. Mostly they're "crafted" to reflect Luis' own interests, skills etc just the side missions/activities do for Niko and Johnny. If it was meant to be a call back to the "good ole" days of the 3D era like people think it is we'd have random sh*t like being a pizzaboy, firefighter, paramedic etc.

 

There were always two DLCs planned for GTA IV and pre-release they were developed right along side. I don't buy into the excuse they had longer to work with TBOGT and it was too late for TLAD (WTF?) because that makes no sense at all. Just like TBOGT, TLAD's intended direction was set in stone and they were never going to deviate from it.

 

Anyway you're free of course to assume/speculate and I'm not trying to change that, but I'd rather use facts to support my argument.

 

 

 

By that I mean it's obvious player feedback was used more for GTA V. Look at the driving for example. People bitched and complained that the driving was too "boat" like in GTA IV so they changed it, people bitched and complained about not being able to explore countryside in GTA IV so they added it to GTA V.

 

GTA V is a full fledged game so of course R* would take player feedback more into consideration rather than base its entire direction off of a short DLC.

 

The problem is almost every character is wacky in TBOGT, including the villians. It just feels weird to go from IV and TLAD to TBOGT so if it was planned (I suppose we will never know for sure) it was still the wrong decision. You can have a more lighthearted story without making everything a joke. I wouldn't say Brucie is the opposite, he is just shown as "lame" to push his annoying brother as the really wacky one who he copied stuff from. 

 

Well I don't think many people complained about the lack of pizza delivery and paramedic activities..people's problem with GTA IV was the darker tone and "repetitive" grounded missions & Liberty City looking too "grey", the driving etc...then with TBOGT we have a lighthearted tone, over the top missions and LC suddenly looks pink.

 

Obviously they couldn't change the driving in TBOGT or add a countryside, that would be too much work. But they changed the overall HD Era style (tone, mission types etc.) with it and GTA V continued it and made other changes as well. I'm sure GTA VI will be more like V and TBOGT as well. I don't think that was the planned direction, the whole point of the HD era was to go with a more mature tone and darker stories. Then they dumped it all because people complained.  

 

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MiamiViceCity1986
3 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

 

The problem is almost every character is wacky in TBOGT, including the villians. It just feels weird to go from IV and TLAD to TBOGT so if it was planned (I suppose we will never know for sure) it was still the wrong decision. You can have a more lighthearted story without making everything a joke. I wouldn't say Brucie is the opposite, he is just shown as "lame" to push his annoying brother as the really wacky one who he copied stuff from. 

 

 

 

I agree it feels weird, but I was just trying to make a point that not ALL of the returning characters from GTA IV and TLAD for that matter are necessarily whacky. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

 

Well I don't think many people complained about the lack of pizza delivery and paramedic activities..people's problem with GTA IV was the darker tone and "repetitive" grounded missions & Liberty City looking too "grey", the driving etc...then with TBOGT we have a lighthearted tone, over the top missions and LC suddenly looks pink.

 

 

I remember plenty of people bitching about this stuff. I mean most of this stuff isn't even in GTA V so if they were trying to make TBOGT a 3D era homage of sorts they didn't really do a great job of it.

 

4 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

 

Obviously they couldn't change the driving in TBOGT or add a countryside, that would be too much work. But they changed the overall HD Era style (tone, mission types etc.) with it and GTA V continued it and made other changes as well. I'm sure GTA VI will be more like V and TBOGT as well. I don't think that was the planned direction, the whole point of the HD era was to go with a more mature tone and darker stories. Then they dumped it all because people complained.  

 

 

We'll have to wait and see what R* do with GTA VI. I'm not convinced it'll be a repeat of TBOGT and GTA V and for the sake of keeping things fresh and interesting I hope it isn't.

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20 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

 

I agree it feels weird, but I was just trying to make a point that not ALL of the returning characters from GTA IV and TLAD for that matter are necessarily whacky. 

 

 

 

 

I remember plenty of people bitching about this stuff. I mean most of this stuff isn't even in GTA V so if they were trying to make TBOGT a 3D era homage of sorts they didn't really do a great job of it.

 

 

We'll have to wait and see what R* do with GTA VI. I'm not convinced it'll be a repeat of TBOGT and GTA V and for the sake of keeping things fresh and interesting I hope it isn't.

 

It will definitely be lighthearted and over the top, don't see any reason for them to go for a different tone. The refreshing stuff will come from how they do the open world (RDR2 was more immersive than any other Rockstar game here, I'm sure they will improve on that), not to mention maybe more open ended missions again (the scripted missions seem to be the main criticism of the last two Rockstar games)

 

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Now that you mates discussed TBOGT's direction, I shall state my opinion as well.

 

While I believe that it was originally intended to be wackier and more lighthearted than the main game and The Lost and Damned, I still highly think that people's reactions towards the first two entries made an impact on that, probably making it wackier than it was intended to be, and I also think that R* had the time to change some aspects of the game sometime after the release of The Lost and Damned. For example: Mori Kibbutz doesn't have a single hint or reference of in the main game. I understand that Brucie wouldn't want to talk about him, but a few indirect hints about his existence would've made sense. Luis has affiliations with the ND3, but already established characters like Willy Valerio and Teddy Benavidez were completely dropped for Armando and Henrique. They would've fleshed out Luis' gang life past and its impact on his present better, as they were high-ranking members of the gang (Willy being the leader), and probably would've been less goofy than Armando and Henrique with that. Ray Bulgarin was far more menacing in the main game. I can see the difference between his relationships with Niko and Luis, but for a crime boss it still doesn't justify the way he interacts with Luis, who's a guy he met for about a few days or weeks. Not to mention the Impossible Trinity in the diamond deal, in which Luis was shown fighting the his way off on the roof in The Lost and Damned's credits, only to be changed to a helicopter battle in the actual game. Yusuf Amir was referred to as a serious business man in the main game, but he turned out to be one of the wackiest characters GTA has to offer.

Edited by iiCriminnaaL 49
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MiamiViceCity1986
5 hours ago, iiCriminnaaL 49 said:

Now that you mates discussed TBOGT's direction, I shall state my opinion as well.

 

While I believe that it was originally intended to be wackier and more lighthearted than the main game and The Lost and Damned, I still highly think that people's reactions towards the first two entries made an impact on that, probably making it wackier than it was intended to be, and I also think that R* had the time to change some aspects of the game sometime after the release of The Lost and Damned. For example: Mori Kibbutz doesn't have a single hint or reference of in the main game. I understand that Brucie wouldn't want to talk about him, but a few indirect hints about his existence would've made sense. Luis has affiliations with the ND3, but already established characters like Willy Valerio and Teddy Benavidez were completely dropped for Armando and Henrique. They would've fleshed out Luis' gang life past and its impact on his present better, as they were high-ranking members of the gang (Willy being the leader), and probably would've been less goofy than Armando and Henrique with that. Ray Bulgarin was far more menacing in the main game. I can see the difference between his relationships with Niko and Luis, but for a crime boss it still doesn't justify the way he interacts with Luis, who's a guy he met for about a few days or weeks. Not to mention the Impossible Trinity in the diamond deal, in which Luis was shown fighting the his way off on the roof in The Lost and Damned's credits, only to be changed to a helicopter battle in the actual game. Yusuf Amir was referred to as a serious business man in the main game, but he turned out to be one of the wackiest characters GTA has to offer.


I don’t doubt there probably were things changed before its release, but that happens with every GTA game during the BETA stage so this isn’t that surprising.

 

Also just as a side note I agree that Yusuf is obviously a stupid, unnecessarily over the top character, but to be fair in GTA IV he was a brief line reference. Odds are most people who played GTA IV for the first time probably forgot who he was since he never appeared in game and unless you were paying close attention to the dialogue the reference to him being a serious businessman probably would’ve went over your head anyway.

 

Edited by Algonquin Assassin
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7 hours ago, iiCriminnaaL 49 said:

Now that you mates discussed TBOGT's direction, I shall state my opinion as well.

 

While I believe that it was originally intended to be wackier and more lighthearted than the main game and The Lost and Damned, I still highly think that people's reactions towards the first two entries made an impact on that, probably making it wackier than it was intended to be, and I also think that R* had the time to change some aspects of the game sometime after the release of The Lost and Damned. For example: Mori Kibbutz doesn't have a single hint or reference of in the main game. I understand that Brucie wouldn't want to talk about him, but a few indirect hints about his existence would've made sense. Luis has affiliations with the ND3, but already established characters like Willy Valerio and Teddy Benavidez were completely dropped for Armando and Henrique. They would've fleshed out Luis' gang life past and its impact on his present better, as they were high-ranking members of the gang (Willy being the leader), and probably would've been less goofy than Armando and Henrique with that. Ray Bulgarin was far more menacing in the main game. I can see the difference between his relationships with Niko and Luis, but for a crime boss it still doesn't justify the way he interacts with Luis, who's a guy he met for about a few days or weeks. Not to mention the Impossible Trinity in the diamond deal, in which Luis was shown fighting the his way off on the roof in The Lost and Damned's credits, only to be changed to a helicopter battle in the actual game. Yusuf Amir was referred to as a serious business man in the main game, but he turned out to be one of the wackiest characters GTA has to offer.

 

Exactly, too much of TBOGT feels like a reaction to the criticism IV/TLAD got so I still doubt it was planned to be like that from the beginning. It fits GTA V (kind of a worse version of it) more than it fits IV/TLAD

Edited by FanEu7
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universetwisters

I don’t get the hate towards making Bulgarin silly in TBOGT while he was serious af in IV. It’s not like he’s gonna go “sup Niko you sunk my ship” and do a wicked guitar solo. Of course he’s gonna be more chummy around Luis because we get to see him at home and at the club where he can be himself

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5 hours ago, universetwisters said:

I don’t get the hate towards making Bulgarin silly in TBOGT while he was serious af in IV. It’s not like he’s gonna go “sup Niko you sunk my ship” and do a wicked guitar solo. Of course he’s gonna be more chummy around Luis because we get to see him at home and at the club where he can be himself

 

He is too chummy and lacks the threatening vibe of Faustin and Dimitri. This has more to do with TBOGT making everyone goofy. I can only imagine how it would have handed thw other serious characters..

At least only Bulgarin was ruined

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