Any Mixed race people here?

[Ilikehotcrossbuns]

 

"Bigot'' is such an oversused word. Valuing racial integrity is not synonymous with supremacism. Not that supremacism in certain contexts is unwarranted in itself. People dipping they're pens into inks they don't belong is how this racial obsession began in the first place.

I can only assume that your white ex had her ink dipped by a black man.

 

Also it really irks me when racists, homophobes etc etc pull out the 'hey we just have different viewpoints and I don't hate anyone' If you're going to be a racist or whatever at least have some backbone instead of skulking around acting as if you're part of the scenery rather than a sad blip of a part of society that needs to die out.

 

EDIT: I am quite pleased that we're keeping up my pen dipping analogy, continue the good work guys!

Edited August 25, 2013 by Ilikehotcrossbuns

[EscoLehGo]

"Bigot'' is such an oversused word. Valuing racial integrity is not synonymous with supremacism. Not that supremacism in certain contexts is unwarranted in itself. People dipping they're pens into inks they don't belong is how this racial obsession began in the first place.

I can only assume that your white ex had her ink dipped by a black man.

 

Also it really irks me when racists, homophobes etc etc pull out the 'hey we just have different viewpoints and I don't hate anyone' If you're going to be a racist or whatever at least have some backbone instead of skulking around acting as if you're part of the scenery rather than a sad blip of a part of society that needs to die out.

Gay bashing Christians use that angle a lot "I think all gays should be sent to correction camps and are products of Satan, why can't you accept my view? Why are you so hateful?". You're right though, if you're going to be a bigot at least own up to it, don't try to weasel out of it with semantics.

[The_Real_Deal]

You see, no matter what I say, there will always be someone who doesn't understand it, and pulls out the old "you're a racist bigot pretending not to be a racist bigot" routine. No, I'm being as straight as an arrow, you just don't agree with me, that's all. And we're not even talking about gays or Christianity. I don't identify myself as Christian by the way. The strange thing is how you fail to see the moat in your own eyes. You're expressing contempt for my view, even going so far as to say my kind should die out. That makes you not only a hypocrite, but a hater. Take the Detroit comment at face value, but the facts speak for themselves.

 

And CrossBuns ,about the pen dipping ex comment, I know that would turn you on, but no.

[Ilikehotcrossbuns]

You're the one pulling the old routine buddy, not us. It's not a matter of 'not agreeing', your racism is a negative thing, it shouldn't be accepted by society and, by the way, it is a voluntary system. You are not born thinking that ni**ers and wops are terrible animals, it's a viewpoint you subscribed to. You are not being oppressed by the big bad liberals enforcing their equality on you.

 

The homophobic part was an example, it's similar to racism in the reasoning.

 

Saying a viewpoint should be discarded is not the same as saying a certain type of human being is wrong for existing.

 

Well if we're pulling this trick then the whole economic collapse of the world was by the hand of the white man, so what is your point here?

[Karato2300]

Native-American with mix of Irish, French-Huguenot ancestry. Very pale skinned, but the native features are quite obvious (shape of the face, harder bone density, hair can't be dyed). A bit annoying, because it means tons of hair in some places, and barely any on others (being both part of the least hairy people *Native*, and the hairiest *Irish*).

[The_Real_Deal]

No, I already explained what's going on here, it's your routine and don't pretend it isn't. In this discussion, I've focused on beliefs that don't involve the harm of anyone, some truths, and honest observations. Then you decide to get angry and paint a picture of me as the person you most hate. That's your problem, not mine.

 

Your eyes and ears are closed, ironically enough. As I stated originally, I'm not attempting to convince you, I have better things to do. And if I wanted to pretend not to be a bigot, the internet is a pretty funny place to do it.

[Quartercan American]

Is there any topic anywhere that wont turn into argument?

[Ilikehotcrossbuns]

Is there any topic anywhere that wont turn into argument?

We still live in a world where race matters to some people, what did you expect?

[Quartercan American]

Is there any topic anywhere that wont turn into argument?

We still live in a world where race matters to some people, what did you expect?

well I mean damn! 50 years ago this was all supposed to end. No need for it to be this way, Its interesting how we all come from different types of races, but it shouldn't make a difference for anyone's value

[EscoLehGo]

You see, no matter what I say, there will always be someone who doesn't understand it, and pulls out the old "you're a racist bigot pretending not to be a racist bigot" routine. No, I'm being as straight as an arrow, you just don't agree with me, that's all. And we're not even talking about gays or Christianity. I don't identify myself as Christian by the way. The strange thing is how you fail to see the moat in your own eyes. You're expressing contempt for my view, even going so far as to say my kind should die out. That makes you not only a hypocrite, but a hater. Take the Detroit comment at face value, but the facts speak for themselves.

 

And CrossBuns ,about the pen dipping ex comment, I know that would turn you on, but no.

I was just asking you to clarify what you meant about the relationship between Detroit being both majority black and a failure.

[TheDavid]

100% Jordanian! Proud of it, but I'd still be proud of my ethnicity any which way. Culture is incredibly important in shaping who a person is.

While Ethnicity is self-identified, and essentially can be anything, "Jordanian" is not currently a recognised ethnic group.

 

Technically, Jordan did not exist prior to 1946, when it was Trans-Jordan. It was after the war with Israelin 1948 that it became Jordan.

While I fully support people's right to identify their ethnicity as whatever they want, choosing an ethnicity that your grandparents wouldn't have ever heard of is rather silly.

 

Most Jordanians are Arabs - is that what you are?

If so, I am interested in what makes you feel distinct and inherently different from other Arabs, or are you just ashamed like many others I met?

 

TC

All Arabs identify themselves by nation because culturally there are many distinct differences.

 

As for Transjordan and the mandate, My grandfather (who fought in the war) and his father, and his father all referred to Jordan as "Al-Urdon" and those that occupy the land of Jordan have always been called "Al Urondeya." Both meaning Jordan and Jordanians in an English translation.

 

The reason many Jordanians refer to themselves as such is not out of embarrassment or from being ashamed, but to mark that we are distinctly different. Jordan has always been one the most advanced and least oppressive nations in the Middle East. In fact, for the most part Christians and Muslims lived together with no issues until radical forms of Islam began growing deeper into the region, much of which stemmed from revolutions in neighboring regions.

[Ilikehotcrossbuns]

You see, no matter what I say, there will always be someone who doesn't understand it, and pulls out the old "you're a racist bigot pretending not to be a racist bigot" routine. No, I'm being as straight as an arrow, you just don't agree with me, that's all. And we're not even talking about gays or Christianity. I don't identify myself as Christian by the way. The strange thing is how you fail to see the moat in your own eyes. You're expressing contempt for my view, even going so far as to say my kind should die out. That makes you not only a hypocrite, but a hater. Take the Detroit comment at face value, but the facts speak for themselves.

 

And CrossBuns ,about the pen dipping ex comment, I know that would turn you on, but no.

I was just asking you to clarify what you meant about the relationship between Detroit being both majority black and a failure.

Shame on you for expecting substance from this guy.

[The_Real_Deal]

The only substance you can handle HotBuns is social liberal perhaps? Anything else gets on your nerves.

 

@ Esco, as far as Detroit, the writing is on the wall, all you have to do is read it. You'll find that the timeline of it's decline coincides exactly with the exodus of it's white population. I assure you the connection has already been made nationwide, this isn't something I came up with. I could go on about it, but I'm not here to prove anything or write a book. We're all strangers among strangers.

[Eutyphro]

 

@The_Real Deal: I'd rather see humanity become one group that moves forward with a common goal. Why would you want to see humanity as something split up in different groups? Differences in interest between people are one of the main causes of social and political problems. Groups cause differences in interest. So groups dissolving should be a goal.

 

Racial groups dissolving doesn't have to be done by racial mixing per se, but easier would be to just start seeing each other as individuals in stead of as white or black.

I gather you're not in the US. I can't speak for other places, but many blacks in the US - I might even say most, separate themselves. They identify themselves as black, and may even criticize other blacks they do not deem as acting "black enough". Historically, they've sought equal rights, while seeking special treatment at the same time. And still hold a grudge for being made slaves of over a hundred years ago. It's almost impossible to assess black culture in America honestly without sounding like bigot. The city of Detroit, which is almost entirely run by blacks today, is a classic example of a great city gone to ruin.

 

And that's without even mentioning the other cultures who inhabit the US. Other nations probably find it odd the Americans are hung up on race, and maybe it is. But it's brought about through various groups of people who want what they want, and will not compromise. We're still learning to coexist, and maintain our identities, without stepping on each other's toes. Everyone has their own ideas, and level of evolution, so that may never happen. So the best you can do is find people who are like yourself, and who share your ideals, and stick with them. Which is what humans have always done. We are all tribal and seperatist to some extent.

Yes, but in the US the 'superfluous' population is thrown in jail for minor crimes like small drug offenses, which is why the US has such an insane jail population, and has a sh*tty healthcare system, and a sh*tty education system. Minorities are kept down. If you don't let them participate and keep them poor, no wonder they'll stay in their own group.

 

Edit: @Ilikehotcrossbuns, Can you please stop the flaming? The_Real_Deal is expressing his views in a civilized way. The fact that you can't refute them rationally doesn't mean you have to go flame him. If you have no arguments left then just stop posting. It's as simple as that.

Edited August 26, 2013 by gtaxpert

[The_Real_Deal]

 

Yes, but in the US the 'superfluous' population is thrown in jail for minor crimes like small drug offenses, which is why the US has such an insane jail population, and has a sh*tty healthcare system, and a sh*tty education system. Minorities are kept down. If you don't let them participate and keep them poor, no wonder they'll stay in their own group.

 

A lot is made of why the US corrections population is disproportionately black, but it's not because they are considered superfluous. The justice system in America is by no means perfect, but every US citizen is entitled to the same rights, such as legal protection, and a trial by jury. Everyone in a US prison has had that. That's not to say money couldn't buy you more effective legal counsel than you might receive from the state free of charge, or that there aren't wrong convictions. But nobody in America goes to prison for no reason. The laws aren't different for blacks than they are for whites. But the fact is, the majority of violence/drug/theft related crimes are committed by a relatively small section of society, who happen to be black. If there are any favors made in the courtroom, it's not due to the color of someone's skin.

 

There may have been a time when blacks in America had a reason to feel someone was keeping them down, but that time is no more. There are so many opportunities in the US to gain an education and build a successful life. Nobody has to sell drugs, rob stores, or live the thug life to survive. That's a cop out. But black culture in America has a way of glamorizing dysfunction and lawlessness - American rap music does it all the time. Like being a drug dealer, making money through illegal means, killing foes and mistreating women is something to aspire to. Some people actually buy into it, but the smart ones bypass all that.

[IMr_SmithI]

Half St Lucian/half English

 

[johnny_zoo]

400m relay and 200m hurdles

Funny.

[Eutyphro]

 

Yes, but in the US the 'superfluous' population is thrown in jail for minor crimes like small drug offenses, which is why the US has such an insane jail population, and has a sh*tty healthcare system, and a sh*tty education system. Minorities are kept down. If you don't let them participate and keep them poor, no wonder they'll stay in their own group.

 

A lot is made of why the US corrections population is disproportionately black, but it's not because they are considered superfluous. The justice system in America is by no means perfect, but every US citizen is entitled to the same rights, such as legal protection, and a trial by jury. Everyone in a US prison has had that. That's not to say money couldn't buy you more effective legal counsel than you might receive from the state free of charge, or that there aren't wrong convictions. But nobody in America goes to prison for no reason. The laws aren't different for blacks than they are for whites. But the fact is, the majority of violence/drug/theft related crimes are committed by a relatively small section of society, who happen to be black. If there are any favors made in the courtroom, it's not due to the color of someone's skin.

 

There may have been a time when blacks in America had a reason to feel someone was keeping them down, but that time is no more. There are so many opportunities in the US to gain an education and build a successful life. Nobody has to sell drugs, rob stores, or live the thug life to survive. That's a cop out. But black culture in America has a way of glamorizing dysfunction and lawlessness - American rap music does it all the time. Like being a drug dealer, making money through illegal means, killing foes and mistreating women is something to aspire to. Some people actually buy into it, but the smart ones bypass all that.

Oke, I'll explain the word 'superfluous'. The poorer parts of society are 'superfluous' to the wealth of the richer part of society. The US is an increasingly business run country. It is in the interest of the people that run the country to the throw the poorer part of society in jail, and thus they are 'superfluous' to their wealth. Now the poorer parts of the US people happen to be made up by mostly minorities. Because they since slavery have segregated and been criminalized by 'the war on drugs'. There's a reason that alcohol, and tobacco are legal and marijuana is illegal. It's because criminalizing marijuana serves the political goal of throwing the 'superfluous population in jail.

 

And I would also like to point out that eventhough the laws and rules are the same for minorities, the practices are not. There is still a lot of racism in the law enforcement system, simply because the laws are designed to throw poor people in jail, poor people happen to often be minorities, so targeting minorities gives you a higher success rate.

 

Now I can explain why I do not think the United States is a democracy, and that will tie into the rest of my story, but I'll just leave it at this for now.

Edited August 26, 2013 by gtaxpert

[The_Real_Deal]

Oke, I'll explain the word 'superfluous'. The poorer parts of society are 'superfluous' to the wealth of the richer part of society. The US is an increasingly business run country. It is in the interest of the people that run the country to the throw the poorer part of society in jail, and thus they are 'superfluous' to their wealth. Now the poorer parts of the US people happen to be made up by mostly minorities. Because they since slavery have segregated and been criminalized by 'the war on drugs'. There's a reason that alcohol, and tobacco are legal and marijuana is illegal. It's because criminalizing marijuana serves the political goal of throwing the 'superfluous population in jail.

 

And I would also like to point out that eventhough the laws and rules are the same for minorities, the practices are not. There is still a lot of racism in the law enforcement system, simply because the laws are designed to throw poor people in jail, poor people happen to often be minorities, so targeting minorities gives you a higher success rate.

 

Now I can explain why I do not think the United States is a democracy, and that will tie into the rest of my story, but I'll just leave it at this for now.

No doubt there is racism in America, but there is even more classism. Poor people are more susceptible to being taken advantage of by the law, but I don't believe it's really as calculating in a racial sense as you make it seem. Gone are the days when the police are collaring all the blacks just to get them off the street. If they get arrested, it's usually because they're up to something, or suspected of something because they already have a record. The great divide in this country is no longer racial, religious, or even sexual, it's economic. You can be a black, homosexual, illegal immigrant Jew in the US, and nobody cares - IF you have money, or good credit. Money is the great equalizer today, not your skin. This takes us further away from the topic of race, and closer to classism. That's what it's about. The US legal system favors the wealthy, not the white. And the poor come in all colors.

[Eutyphro]

 

Oke, I'll explain the word 'superfluous'. The poorer parts of society are 'superfluous' to the wealth of the richer part of society. The US is an increasingly business run country. It is in the interest of the people that run the country to the throw the poorer part of society in jail, and thus they are 'superfluous' to their wealth. Now the poorer parts of the US people happen to be made up by mostly minorities. Because they since slavery have segregated and been criminalized by 'the war on drugs'. There's a reason that alcohol, and tobacco are legal and marijuana is illegal. It's because criminalizing marijuana serves the political goal of throwing the 'superfluous population in jail.

 

And I would also like to point out that eventhough the laws and rules are the same for minorities, the practices are not. There is still a lot of racism in the law enforcement system, simply because the laws are designed to throw poor people in jail, poor people happen to often be minorities, so targeting minorities gives you a higher success rate.

 

Now I can explain why I do not think the United States is a democracy, and that will tie into the rest of my story, but I'll just leave it at this for now.

No doubt there is racism in America, but there is even more classism. Poor people are more susceptible to being taken advantage of by the law, but I don't believe it's really as calculating in a racial sense as you make it seem. Gone are the days when the police are collaring all the blacks just to get them off the street. If they get arrested, it's usually because they're up to something, or suspected of something because they already have a record. The great divide in this country is no longer racial, religious, or even sexual, it's economic. You can be a black, homosexual, illegal immigrant Jew in the US, and nobody cares - IF you have money, or good credit. Money is the great equalizer today, not your skin. This takes us further away from the topic of race, and closer to classism. That's what it's about. The US legal system favors the wealthy, not the white. And the poor come in all colors.

I agree, and if you read my comment well you would be able to see that. But the lower class just happens to be mainly made up by minorities, so targeting minorities gives you the best success rate when it comes to throwing the lower class in jail, which is what the class war is aimed at. So we agree on that.

 

In your previouys comment you said you believed there were plenty of chances for minorities to get a good ecucation, but if you were to understand the class system you would understand that it is not in the interest of the ruling class for lower classed citizens to get a good education, which is why education becomes increasingly privatized and expensive, and why teachers salaries and pensions are under attack.

[The_Real_Deal]

 

I agree, and if you read my comment well you would be able to see that. But the lower class just happens to be mainly made up by minorities, so targeting minorities gives you the best success rate when it comes to throwing the lower class in jail, which is what the class war is aimed at. So we agree on that.

 

In your previouys comment you said you believed there were plenty of chances for minorities to get a good ecucation, but if you were to understand the class system you would understand that it is not in the interest of the ruling class for lower classed citizens to get a good education, which is why education becomes increasingly privatized and expensive, and why teachers salaries and pensions are under attack.

I do understand the class system. You seem to be under the belief that the ruling class has the specific intent of keeping blacks and other minorities down. If they do, it's only peripheral. If anything, our current government seems to favor them. And I don't know that the motivation of the elite is to keep the poor in their place, so much as it is to amass more power and money for themselves. Poor people staying poor is simply a bi-product of that motivation.

 

You're implying that higher education is becoming increasingly privatized, and teacher's salaries and benefits are being threatened, as though the elite want to do away with school all together. This is bordering on conspiracy. As I mentioned before, there are plenty of opportunities to gain an education. Some of them made specifically to benefit minorities. Anyone, no matter what their background, is free to go to school, get rich, and become a member of the 'elite' if that is their desire. And if you can't afford school, there are scholarships, and federal aid. Even the military GI bill - which will pay for everything if you want to go that route. I have a personal friend who goofed off in the Navy for five years, but he's attending UCLA now, in large part due to the GI Bill. And the military enlisted force is made up largely of people from working or lower class backgrounds.

 

So while it may be a struggle to be poor in the US - and that's everywhere, there is no master plan to keep the poor, or the blacks stupid and in jail. Take responsibility for one's own success, put one foot in front of the other and be somebody, that's what it comes down to. And I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, so I have first hand experience of this.

[ryuclan]

 

as far as Detroit, the writing is on the wall, all you have to do is read it. You'll find that the timeline of it's decline coincides exactly with the exodus of it's white population. I assure you the connection has already been made nationwide, this isn't something I came up with. I could go on about it, but I'm not here to prove anything or write a book. We're all strangers among strangers.

Couldn't it be pertinent to also include the fact that the exodus of the white population of Detroit also coincides with the exodus of detroit's upper middle class and for that reason the city has fallen into decline? Couldn't it make sense that the fact that all the inhabitants with any type of wealth departed from Detroit leaving those without the funds to do so in the rubble? I'm merely saying that breaking it down to "all the whites left now its a peice of sh*t city" is a bit fundamental when saying "all the money left Detroit and now the city is a peice of sh*t" would be more accurate. If your point is that the black middle to lower class population made the white population (and most of Detroit's wealth) migrate, and the black population is guilty of destroying Detroit in that way then maybe I could see what you mean.

 

 

Regarding classism: I Dont believe that the upper class has the intent of jailing every black man on the streets, but I do believe that our laws regarding certain offenses seem to jail more blacks than whites. Our fascination with the "War on Drugs" being an example.

Edited August 26, 2013 by ryuclan

[The_Real_Deal]

 

Couldn't it be pertinent to also include the fact that the exodus of the white population of Detroit also coincides with the exodus of detroit's upper middle class and for that reason the city has fallen into decline? Couldn't it make sense that the fact that all the inhabitants with any type of wealth departed from Detroit leaving those without the funds to do so in the rubble? I'm merely saying that breaking it down to "all the whites left now its a peice of sh*t city" is a bit fundamental when saying "all the money left Detroit and now the city is a peice of sh*t" would be more accurate. If your point is that the black middle to lower class population made the white population (and most of Detroit's wealth) migrate, and the black population is guilty of destroying Detroit in that way then maybe I could see what you mean.

 

 

Regarding classism:  I Dont believe that the upper class has the intent of jailing every black man on the streets, but I do believe that our laws regarding certain offenses seem to jail more blacks than whites. Our fascination with the "War on Drugs" being an example.

Well the jobs and the money left with the whites, and everyone else got left behind is certainly a direct connection. Outside influences as far as the decline of industry which had nothing to do with Detroit itself were also to blame. But in more recent history, Detroit has been plagued by political corruption and seriously bad management. After the Motown glory days, that has been the root of nearly all their problems. I speak as an outsider, but their issues and the people involved are well documented.

[Eutyphro]

 

I do understand the class system. You seem to be under the belief that the ruling class has the specific intent of keeping blacks and other minorities down. If they do, it's only peripheral. If anything, our current government seems to favor them. And I don't know that the motivation of the elite is to keep the poor in their place, so much as it is to amass more power and money for themselves. Poor people staying poor is simply a bi-product of that motivation.

 

You're implying that higher education is becoming increasingly privatized, and teacher's salaries and benefits are being threatened, as though the elite want to do away with school all together. This is bordering on conspiracy. As I mentioned before, there are plenty of opportunities to gain an education. Some of them made specifically to benefit minorities. Anyone, no matter what their background, is free to go to school, get rich, and become a member of the 'elite' if that is their desire. And if you can't afford school, there are scholarships, and federal aid. Even the military GI bill - which will pay for everything if you want to go that route. I have a personal friend who goofed off in the Navy for five years, but he's attending UCLA now, in large part due to the GI Bill. And the military enlisted force is made up largely of people from working or lower class backgrounds.         

 

So while it may be a struggle to be poor in the US - and that's everywhere, there is no master plan to keep the poor, or the blacks stupid and in jail. Take responsibility for one's own success, put one foot in front of the other and be somebody, that's what it comes down to. And I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, so I have first hand experience of this.

Calling any institutional analysis you disagree with a 'conspiracy' is a fallacy.

 

The United States has two big parties, the Democrats and the Republicans, which are two factions of the business party. Whoever gets the most business funds for it's campaign wins, and this way business gets to choose policy. Business also controls the media through sponsoring. So whatever issues are spoken about and the range of opinions that are portrayed are all determined according to business interest. People can vote for whatever party they choose, but for the most it's a fake choice between two very similar alternatives. This fake choice is what is called 'democracy' in the United States. This theory is called 'the Investment theory of politics': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_th...rty_competition

 

I agree that if you are truly talented and willing to do any task that you are told to do you will be able to get a scholarship. Scholarships are not given away to everybody though, so the greater mass will still fail and remain impoverished. It's designed that way.

 

And the best educations are way too expensive in the US to be accessable to the lower class. If you are from an impoverished family and want to get an Ivy Leaugue education, then you will have to defeat all odds, get straight a's everywhere, and work really hard to get scholarships. And even then it's unlikely that you will find the cash to do it. It's not impossible but just extremely unlikely. And it's supposed to be that way.

 

The education system is an obedience test. If you show that you are truly obedient and willing to do any boring task as long as it is what you are being told, then they will let you through. The task of education is quite simply 'the indoctrination of the young'. This is not a conspiracy theory, it is the exact phrasing of the trilateral commission in 1973.

 

It's quite easy to see how expensive education and healthcare is in the United States compared to other industrialized countries. This is due to the fact that the United States is the most commercialized and business run country in the world. It's the only industrialized country in the world along with South Africa without a public health care system.

 

Now you may believe in the 'American dream' that everybody who works hard will get on top, because that's part of the propaganda. It's what everybody is supposed to believe. If you want to understand how minorities are being kept down read into 'the war on drugs' and the US jail system.

Edited August 26, 2013 by gtaxpert

[ryuclan]

So what you are saying is that a multitude of factors came together to create this predicament that Detroit is in?

[The_Real_Deal]

 

Calling any institutional analysis you disagree with a 'conspiracy' is a fallacy.

 

The United States has two big parties, the Democrats and the Republicans, which are two factions of the business party. Whoever gets the most business funds for it's campaign wins, and this way business gets to choose policy. Business also controls the media through sponsoring. So whatever issues are spoken about and the range of opinions that are portrayed are all determined according to business interest. People can vote for whatever party they choose, but for the most it's a fake choice between two very similar alternatives. This fake choice is what is called 'democracy' in the United States. This theory is called 'the Investment theory of politics': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_th...rty_competition

 

I agree that if you are truly talented and willing to do any task that you are told to do you will be able to get a scholarship. Scholarships are not given away to everybody though, so the greater mass will still fail and remain impoverished.  It's designed that way.

 

And the best educations are way too expensive in the US to be accessable to the lower class. If you are from an impoverished family and want to get an Ivy Leaugue education, then you will have to defeat all odds, get straight a's everywhere, and work really hard to get scholarships. And even then it's unlikely that you will find the cash to do it. It's not impossible but just extremely unlikely. And it's supposed to be that way.

 

The education system is an obedience test. If you show that you are truly obedient and willing to do any boring task as long as it is what you are being told, then they will let you through. The task of education is quite simply 'the indoctrination of the young'. This is not a conspiracy theory, it is the exact phrasing of the trilateral commission in 1973.

 

It's quite easy to see how expensive education and healthcare is in the United States compared to other industrialized countries. This is due to the fact that the United States is the most commercialized and business run country in the world. It's the only industrialized country in the world along with South Africa without a public health care system.

 

Now you may believe in the 'American dream' that everybody who works hard will get on top, because that's part of the propaganda. It's what everybody is supposed to believe. If you want to understand how minorities are being kept down read into 'the war on drugs' and the US jail system.

First of all, not everyone wants to go to college, let alone Ivy league, nor is it their path in life to happiness. But if you do, there are numerous quality schools to gain the knowledge you seek that are very attainable. And you don't have to play any games, or excel as a student in order to attend. I say conspiracy, because I think you're getting sidetracked with political conjecture. Granted, some of what you said is fact, but some of what you're saying is theoretical in terms of the average person building a life for themselves. Indoctrination, American dream propaganda, the Electoral College, people know about that. Not as many as there should be perhaps. But much of it has little to do with the average person on street level. We're talking about black oppression, or lack of. Not what hoops people have to jump through to come up in America. That's the thing, you can either follow a path that is laid out before you, or you can just chart a different path. Whether you consider yourself an oppressed minority, or a happy person is your own decision. It's not predestined because some 'elite' wants to keep you down. And nobody makes minorities involve themselves with drugs. Remember what I said about personal responsibility.

 

The American dream is alive and well. Some people aspire to the classic story, mini-mansion, credit card debt and all. Others reinvent what the dream is. Ultimately it is your own script to right. Maybe you would have to actually be American to understand that.

 

 

@ Ryuclan, Yes a multitude of factors. With a focus on different ones at various points in the city's history. But I'm sure leaving a majority black population to run the city was not the best idea, for what ever reasons there may have been. It's hard to go into it really without offending somebody.

[Eutyphro]

Maybe you would have to actually be American to understand that.

I have watched American tv shows, listened to American music and followed American news all my life. I think saying I'm not an American is a cheap cop out. If I'd have lied to you and said I was an American and would've put an American flag next to my name you would've believed me.

 

I see the rest of my argumentation is undisputed, so that is all I had to say.

[EscoLehGo]

Please expand on your point about it being a bad idea to leave a city in black hands, I feel like you're really starting to get honest now and that's always appreciated.

[Empty World]

I'm 100% Polish (I think, don't know anyone else who isn't Polish in my family)

[D- Ice]

100% Jordanian! Proud of it, but I'd still be proud of my ethnicity any which way. Culture is incredibly important in shaping who a person is.

While Ethnicity is self-identified, and essentially can be anything, "Jordanian" is not currently a recognised ethnic group.

 

Technically, Jordan did not exist prior to 1946, when it was Trans-Jordan. It was after the war with Israelin 1948 that it became Jordan.

While I fully support people's right to identify their ethnicity as whatever they want, choosing an ethnicity that your grandparents wouldn't have ever heard of is rather silly.

 

Most Jordanians are Arabs - is that what you are?

If so, I am interested in what makes you feel distinct and inherently different from other Arabs, or are you just ashamed like many others I met?

 

TC

All Arabs identify themselves by nation because culturally there are many distinct differences.

 

As for Transjordan and the mandate, My grandfather (who fought in the war) and his father, and his father all referred to Jordan as "Al-Urdon" and those that occupy the land of Jordan have always been called "Al Urondeya." Both meaning Jordan and Jordanians in an English translation.

 

The reason many Jordanians refer to themselves as such is not out of embarrassment or from being ashamed, but to mark that we are distinctly different. Jordan has always been one the most advanced and least oppressive nations in the Middle East. In fact, for the most part Christians and Muslims lived together with no issues until radical forms of Islam began growing deeper into the region, much of which stemmed from revolutions in neighboring regions.

Thanks for your insight into the matter akhi.

 

I myself am also Arab, though I believe most of the cultural differences you refer to are a result of recent politics as opposed to the actual people. Any differences between the actual people are negligable, if they even exist.

 

You talk about Jordanians being advanced, or socially progressive. The same can generally be said about most Arabs - remember our history is teaming with transposrting and trading goods across the lands - travelling from land to land and dealing with all sorts of cultures - from East Asia to Europe, and from Southern Africa to the Caucasus - so we cannot afford to be racists, bigots or extremists.

 

Though most Arab countries are infact ruled by such people - it does not represent the majority. Remember most Arab countries are undemocratic - like Saudi Arabia. That does not mean most Saudis are hardline nutjobs - just the rulers. Most Jordanians have parts of their tribes and relatives live in Saudi.

My tribe and distant blood relatives are divided between Iraq, Saudi, Syria, Jordan and even Turkey!

So saying that just because I was born and lived in Iraq that I am inherently different from them is ridiculous.I am closer to my distant blood relatives in your country than I am to Iraqi Arabs of other tribes, or other ethnicities like the Kurds.

 

Secondly regarding your point about the Jordanian War of Independance, they fought to end British rule in Jordan. The artificial country was already created by that point, and thus the name "Al-urdoneen".Prior to that it was the Ottoman Vileyet of Amman. People living there were mostly identified by the city of Amman if they lived there. The majority were part of Beduin Arab Tribes, living a nomadic or semi-nomadic lifestyle, and they were called by the name of their tribe.Iam pretty sure even my ancestors might have ventured into what is today Jordan while herding their sheep.

 

If you don't believe me, just give me the name of your tribe and I'll send you information on how they travelled allover the Arab world.

 

Take care brother.