Explaining America's Ignorance

[El Dildo]

 

Occupy Wall Street is largely a youth movement, so I don't see your point there. And the Tea Party is hardly an example of people who are aware and informed.

it's beside the point.

 

most young people are not part of "youth revolution movements."

most young people are misinformed, ill informed, or completely not informed and don't want to be; they don't care.

 

the ones who are well informed are the minority, not the majority.

[bread]

 

Occupy Wall Street is largely a youth movement, so I don't see your point there.

Goddamn hipsters.

 

 

Mockage shakes his fist.

[Clem Fandango]

Occupy Wall Street is largely a youth movement, so I don't see your point there. And the Tea Party is hardly an example of people who are aware and informed.

it's beside the point.

 

most young people are not part of "youth revolution movements."

most young people are misinformed, ill informed, or completely not informed and don't want to be; they don't care.

 

the ones who are well informed are the minority, not the majority.

It's not besides the point at all, since my contention was never "my generation is a paragon of political involvement, in its entirety" it was that- comparatively- my generation is more informed and active than its predecessors.

[El Dildo]

 

my generation is more informed and active than its predecessors.

right.

and I disagree.

 

I mean what do you think your "predecessors" did for the last 200 years?

sat around on their ass?

 

not quite.

they abolished slavery, apartheid, fought for women's suffrage, then universal suffrage, then civil rights, etc etc.

 

every generation has its activists and every generation has its apathetic crowd.

I don't think this current generation is any more (or less) active and informed than generations past.

[Clem Fandango]

I don't know why you're bothering to have this discussion with me when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. It's quite obvious that at the start of this discussion, you ha no idea that the Occupy movement was youth-spearheaded and weren't aware of the youth movements happening throughout the world and simply thought everyone under 25 say around playing Angry Birds and listening to ke$ha.

 

 

I don't think this current generation is any more (or less) active and informed than generations past.

Wait, what?

 

 

sometimes it seems like this trend is almost universal amongst a certain age group.

 

young people around the world are generally apathetic and relatively ignorant.

 

 

Furthermore, the fact that previous generations had their victories of social justice is irrelevant, as they were fighting obvious, institutionalised injustice. Today's youth are fighting to change the very fabric of society.

[sivispacem]

I don't think this current generation is any more (or less) active and informed than generations past.

I struggle to see how they couldn't be more informed. We've reached a point of information proliferation the like of which has never been matched in human history. Now, I'm unsure of whether we're more active or more apathetic but that's a judgement call largely based on your interpretation of "active" in this context; I don't see how you can argue they aren't more informed though.

[Vercetti42]

I have never understood the hate on America either, I always thought they are a pretty decent country.

 

 

[Acehilm]

The reason I think personally is why people look down to America is because they have most of the great power over the world at the moment - or they perceive to have. Thing about it as this, the kid at school who has everything and does everything right and everyone loves him yet there are those who hate the kid because they have success and that power of likeness and friendship. The power is what people hate, not the actual people themselves.

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

The youth are more informed due to their access to quick info via the web and what not. However, this doesn't really mean they are largely educated about vital issues. As a college student, I can attest that our current youth are simply propaganda feeders. Even most Occupy supporters I know just blindly support the movement while doing zero economic research on their own. That isn't being well-informed IMO.

 

 

Yes the internet is an amazing tool at our disposal, but from what I've witnessed first hand, the vast majority of our youth's online time is spent on Facebook, whatever political sources that tell them what they want to hear, video streaming (generally for entertainment), shopping, gaming, hobbying, listening to music, Pinterest, and reading/studying. The latter being the least common. Our tech may have caught up, but our values are still the same.

 

 

 

More informed? Yes. Better informed? No.

[Mintberry Crunch]

 

but they know damn well that they would trade their nationality to be American in a heartbeat.

I ain't even American, but I live here, for anyone that's wondering.

Would we f*ck. Things like this make Americans seem arrogant. (I know your not american but you live there so your basicly one of them now.) There are many other countries i would rather be from then america.

[El Dildo]

 

you ha no idea that the Occupy movement was youth-spearheaded and weren't aware of the youth movements happening throughout the world and simply thought everyone under 25 say around playing Angry Birds and listening to ke$ha.

of course OWS was spearheaded by young people.

but since you obviously weren't paying attention, there were also many older people among their ranks who agreed with their message and supported them. they weren't nearly as visible as all the young hippies because the media loves to focus on the drum circles and tie-dye shirts.

 

once again; "youth movements" happening throughout the world ARE NOT representative of MOST young people.

they're also not happening just everywhere. they're really focused on the Middle East right now which is in its democratic infancy. the only other major youth movements that are occurring in civilized countries are the likes of anti-austerity protests across parts of Europe. and most of those kids are just rioting because they don't have a job; not because they're intellectual revolutionaries

 

 

Furthermore, the fact that previous generations had their victories of social justice is irrelevant, as they were fighting obvious, institutionalised injustice. Today's youth are fighting to change the very fabric of society.

 

WOW.

good job glazing over history. that's the saddest attempt at white washing that I've seen in a long time...

 

fighting to abolish slavery wasn't changing the fabric of society?

passing civil rights didn't change the fabric of society?

women's rights? equal rights?

 

wow.

that's some bold ignorance right there.

 

 

I struggle to see how they couldn't be more informed. We've reached a point of information proliferation the like of which has never been matched in human history.

I don't see how you can argue they aren't more informed though.

I guess we're arguing different versions of the word "informed."

 

because I fail to see how scrolling through headlines, browsing Wikipedia, or watching the TV news soundbites that run 24/7 actually contributes to information.

it only contributes to the false sense of information

 

I'm willing to bet that most young people today cannot actually talk more intelligently about current events than their past peers.

I'm sure they could spout off more headlines about what's happening in the world... but I doubt they really comprehend most of it or have any real insight other than the jist of the headline itself.

[Clem Fandango]

Holy sh*t, can't you get through one f*cking debate without misinterpreting everything and shifting the goal posts in every response?

 

Look, I don't particularly care that you don't think our generation is exceptional in terms of awareness and involvement. I mean, you're wrong, and I don't know how you can hold that opinion when you know that, through the internet, we have access to pretty much limitless information and are interconnected in ways we've never been before, and that youth movements are springing up in places where such things are historically unprecedented. So yeah, you're wrong, but I'm not particularly offended by that view point, that wasn't what I was calling you on; I was calling you on your claim that our generation is marked by ignorance and apathy.

 

You seem to be so adamant about not backing down that you go through mental gymnastics to avoid having to concede. You literally changed your entire position without acknowledging it; you don't even appear to be conscious of it. Seriously, cut it out, because it's incredibly frustrating.

 

 

of course OWS was spearheaded by young people.

You literally just used them as an example of a political movement centred around the middle aged. Come on.

 

 

WOW.

good job glazing over history. that's the saddest attempt at white washing that I've seen in a long time...

 

fighting to abolish slavery wasn't changing the fabric of society?

passing civil rights didn't change the fabric of society?

women's rights? equal rights?

 

wow.

that's some bold ignorance right there.

I can't tell if this is an attempt at strawmanning, or if you really misconstrued my point that badly. All I can say is go back and read it again.

 

 

once again; "youth movements" happening throughout the world ARE NOT representative of MOST young people.

Erm, okay. But that isn't really relevant since we are quite clearly discussing something qualitative, not quantitative.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Melchior

[HolyGrenadeFrenzy]

@Melchoir & El-Diablo; I believe that each of you may find my previous post in this thread beneficial if you utilize all of the data and links therein before applying counter strategy or setting with your opinions of the post or the data.

 

Secondly, I also believe that you will find your positions both there yet not actually oppositional as they seem when first looking at them from the current debate. Their adjust positions are relative to their placements of social and intellectual position and early training yet both are accurate according to those positions and training as well.

 

The only argument I see which is not lost in the mess of what has happened is "Whether the public is more informed or less informed today versus generations past?"

 

The answer, as suspected by many media skeptics, is of course,"They have more information available at leisure yet they are more often lost in the abundance of misinformation, disinformation and a dense obstructive distraction of logical fallacy. This is compounded by their lack of regard for each other and their skills in taking new information for what it is and not twisting it to their previous perspectives to serve as a place holder for personal esteem and position. Thus, though some escape many if not most are as equally paralyzed in their situation as years past if not in a worse position for it and the other opportunities that become available for the other aspects of life as their previous generations were. Albeit that this is fundamentally psychological it is lent credence economically and through various methods of stratification."

 

There is much more I could say, yet it is better for any to discover it themselves and not settle for MY appeal to authority. The universe is knowable beyond our opinions and without answering to a compartmentalized "higher authority", being usually fictitious; in fact, the trivium method via the scientific method demonstrates this time and again.

 

 

HolyGrenadeFrenzy with propped up feet on the table, tips his hat, grins and winks at the forum. then gets up and strolls out in a relaxed manner. Edited August 16, 2013 by HolyGrenadeFrenzy

[A loaded rifle]

As an american, it is obvious that most other Americans in this country are ignorant and apathetic.

 

 

[RedDagger]

As an american, it is obvious that most other Americans in this country are ignorant and apathetic.

 

-snip-

I wonder how many people they actually interviewed, compared to the ones they picked to show...

[darthYENIK]

 

As an american, it is obvious that most other Americans in this country are ignorant and apathetic.

 

-snip-

I wonder how many people they actually interviewed, compared to the ones they picked to show...

Yeah those videos are not a fair representation of a group of people. Being an American and a Californian (both seem to be the target of 50% of these videos), I can't stand them. I can take a joke. I'm probably the most self deprecating person I know. But those videos just seem mean spirited when they target a particular demographic.

[sivispacem]

As an american, it is obvious that most other Americans in this country are ignorant and apathetic.

As an external observer, I find that people with attitudes such as yours- an ill-deserved sense of superiority based on poorly informed opinions- to be the greatest cause of the reason why Americans are interpreted as being ignorant.

[MacAshford]

Everyone is different, you can't just judge a country by the way a few people act. I mean there could be one person who is a mass murderer and their next door neighbour is a charity worker, it doesn't mean that everyone on that street are bad people. America have some good people and some bad people, they have both, it's not just one or the other...