Red Dead Rebellion

[OchyGTA]

Except the Marston family was first introduced in Redemption. So, Rockstar can abandon their history.

Its debatable. One could argue that Red from Red Dead Revolver is John Marston in his younger years (at least in a spiritual sense). They certainly bear a lot of similar traits.

[Adriaan]

 

In my opinion I would like a western set in Japan. Its fresh and original

Red Dead Redemption story SPOILER ALERT:

 

Fun fact: Traditionally, Japanese films have sad endings. In fact, when Universal Studios opened up a resort in Japan, they rewrote some of the live performances, e.g. the Western shootout, to cater more to a Japanese audience. The hero dies in the end. Of course, back in the western world, the idea of the hero dying in the end happens rarely. That's why when it happens in films or games, it's often very emotional or surprising.

 

Edited July 17, 2013 by Adriaan

[Stormingz]

Jack Marston in prohibition era Chicago.

I like what you're thinking.

[StateofMind15]

NO health regen

Longer storyline

Bows and arrows!

Some survival elements

 

[Secura]

 

I feel it would be a bit of a cop out if Rockstar changed the setting from the Wild West yet retained the franchise name. You also need to consider that the Red Dead series has only revolved around the Marston family as of yet. If Rockstar were to abandon these to elements of the franchise, the might as well go ahead and create a new I.P.

I know it's not all that well known, but there was in fact a Red Dead game before Redemption. Back in 2004 Red Dead Revolver released and it had no mention of the Marston's, in fact the main protagonist was a man known as Red (yes it's a rather stupid name but this was a game primarily built by Capcom not by Rockstar) who had to hunt down and kill the man who shot his father.

 

After those two storylines I'm starting to wonder what other tales Rockstar can spin in such a limited area/timeframe. Perhaps something along the lines of the Magnificent Seven, but knowing Rockstar it'd most likely be far more complex than the original film which was one of the film's best strengths.

[OchyGTA]

I feel it would be a bit of a cop out if Rockstar changed the setting from the Wild West yet retained the franchise name. You also need to consider that the Red Dead series has only revolved around the Marston family as of yet. If Rockstar were to abandon these to elements of the franchise, the might as well go ahead and create a new I.P.

I know it's not all that well known, but there was in fact a Red Dead game before Redemption. Back in 2004 Red Dead Revolver released and it had no mention of the Marston's, in fact the main protagonist was a man known as Red (yes it's a rather stupid name but this was a game primarily built by Capcom not by Rockstar) who had to hunt down and kill the man who shot his father.

 

After those two storylines I'm starting to wonder what other tales Rockstar can spin in such a limited area/timeframe. Perhaps something along the lines of the Magnificent Seven, but knowing Rockstar it'd most likely be far more complex than the original film which was one of the film's best strengths.

If you'd read my other post, you'd have seen that I referenced Red Dead Revolver and the fact that Red is effectively John Marston.

[Secura]

If you'd read my other post, you'd have seen that I referenced Red Dead Revolver and the fact that Red is effectively John Marston.

John's father was a Scottish immigrant who died a blinded drunk. Red is not John and John isn't Red.

[OchyGTA]

 

If you'd read my other post, you'd have seen that I referenced Red Dead Revolver and the fact that Red is effectively John Marston.

John's father was a Scottish immigrant who died a blinded drunk. Red is not John and John isn't Red.

Compare the two characters and their story arcs. They share many of the same physical and mental features. Both Red and John look the same and have similar scars on their faces. Red is the man that John was before Redemption and if you look at the way he interacts with others, the similarities are abundant. At the very least, Marston is Red's spiritual successor.

 

E: It's not canon but it is heavily implied.

[Secura]

 

Compare the two characters and their story arcs.

One is about revenge for your father, the other is redemption for you past crimes. Red and John are two very different characters, physically they may be similar but I have a feeling that's just a little nod from Rockstar to Revolver and really doesn't have any other underlying meaning.

 

 

They share many of the same physical and mental features.

John's scars are a reference to Red's yes, but they are not the same person. Mentally though, John and Red are entirely different as John never wanted revenge for what was done for him, he took it as a sign to give up and get out where as Red took what had happened to him and started to harbour revenge over it.

 

Red is a very quiet and rather humorless character. He rarely speaks, and when he does, it is often the least he has to say to anyone. John on the other hand is far more talkative, he starts more conversations and actually tries to form strong bonds with people like his son, wife and Bonnie McFarlane. Red never did that, he was a loner through and through and loved it, John's whole journey across the Western Frontier and into Mexico was done solely so he didn't have to live without his family.

 

Face it, they are not the same character.

 

 

At the very least, Marston is Red's spiritual successor.

Well considering that Red Dead Redemption is the spiritual successor to Red Dead Revolver that's a reasonable thing to suggest, but to say that they are the same character is moronic. By the logic that you look similar so you must be someone else, you might as well make the argument that Franklin is CJ's successor and Michael Tommy Vercetti's.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Lightning Strike

[sublimelabs]

My wish is kind of specific and unpopular...

 

It'd be interesting, cinematic-wise, if we controlled different characters as we progress in the story. Like The Last of Us. I consider TLOU to be a hallmark in terms of video game narrative, and think that's what games should study if they want their stories to truly take advantage of the medium. As most of us know, Red Dead Redemption did something similar at the very end when we switch to Jack.

 

For example, we have our gunslinging anti-hero to explore the open world. But during missions there are points where a cutscene puts us in control of a Native American. And back to the gunslinger. Know what I mean? For the sake of the story and overall enjoyment, we're always connected to the action on screen.

 

GTAV lets you switch between protagonists at any point when off a mission, but when you're doing a mission with all the protagonists there are points that automatically switch for you. It's cinematic.

 

Honestly I'm just throwing around thoughts, but it's something I think games will continue to explore as we get into the next generation of consoles. So who knows. By the time a new Red Dead is announced, this presentation of story in games might be normal.

[GunWrath]

Well considering that Red Dead Redemption is the spiritual successor to Red Dead Revolver that's a reasonable thing to suggest, but to say that they are the same character is moronic. By the logic that you look similar so you must be someone else.

Ocha has a point. They may have 'changed' the story between the titles but I can almost certainly say that Red is Marston, Marston is Red. Again, facial features are the main deal. What are the chances of two characters having the same exact scarring? That's not coincidence. I believe to make a more emotional game, as times these days require that, they want gamers to become attached to a character, so they added a new spin by coming up with John Marston (the name) and a story completely different and more involved than that of Red Dead Revolver. Perhaps John Marston is the more laid-back 'Red', while Red was the 'outlaw' John. Stories may be conflicting but the characters are exactly the same.

 

 

By the logic that you look similar so you must be someone else.

off-topic: In your case, that was true.

[Mr Rabbit]

it should be set about the time django unchained was set, just before the civil war imo.

and maybe a bit during the civil war

maybe the end just after

 

and you play a black slave who broke out of his plantation, or something.

[GunWrath]

If anything, it will continue with Jack taking revenge over his father.. because there's always a ladder one follows for revenge. To get to the man that calls the shots..

 

But I rather go back, to John's younger years, when he first came into Dutch's gang when he was still young. That way you get a feel for becoming an outlaw or actually make it to where you decide what route you take. Outlaw or law-abiding citizen through an honor system that some games use.

[.2D]

I want to interact with towns people, get drunk at a saloon, have some random dude challenge me to a duel or some sh*t.

But.. You can do all of that.

[Secura]

Ocha has a point. They may have 'changed' the story between the titles but I can almost certainly say that Red is Marston, Marston is Red. Again, facial features are the main deal. What are the chances of two characters having the same exact scarring? That's not coincidence.

 

 

The scar is a nod to Revolver, but it does not signify that they are the same character. Red is mentioned multiple times in Redemption and you can even play as him in the multiplayer showing that other than the scar itself the facial structure is quite different.

 

That's without mentioning the psychological differences in both characters as I've already seen fit to do, but I'll shorten it down here. Red is a loner and John isn't, Red harbours revenge and John doesn't and lastly Red never left his way of life and John did. They are entirely different characters, just because Niko can wear Claude's clothing in GTA IV does that then by extension make him Claude? Of course not and the same is true here.

 

Instead of thinking of the scars as a story feature see them instead as a reference to a previous game in the series, one of the few that actually make an appearance in the game. Canonically and even spiritually it'd be hard to see John as Red's successor simply because John's personality isn't at all similar to Red's, yes they both show some degree of modesty and kindness but Red is far more ruthless where as John is more forgiving and compliant.

 

Hell, even the games' titles somewhat reflect the personality of the characters with John seeking redemption and actually being forced to hunt the men from his past down where as Red does it entirely out of spite and hatred for the man who killed his father. Even their relationships with their families are entirely different, yes they were both orphaned at a young age but John despised his father where as Red was willing to kill for Nate years after his death.

 

 

[Mista J]

Uncle is Red. Wears a glove on his right hand to hide the scorpion revolver burn, also has scars on his face.

[kudoboi]

since when did people decide to call it red dead rebellion? also would love a new engine and a PC port.

[bobgtafan]

Set it during the Civil War, make main character black, add full rpg elements...game of the year.

[darthYENIK]

If you make it during the Civil War you couldn't make it in the west. Or you could make it in the west and the War wouldn't mean anything because the War was fought in the east.

[Secura]

Uncle is Red. Wears a glove on his right hand to hide the scorpion revolver burn, also has scars on his face.

In Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare uncle has no gloves on and there is no scorpion scar on his hand.

[H. León]

I want a young John Marston in a game with multiple characters, you can control any of the Dutch van der Line's gang and f*ck Abigail! Robbing banks and... Oh, wait, that's a spaghetti western GTA V. Oh well...

 

[Cult Of Personality]

Uncle is Red. Wears a glove on his right hand to hide the scorpion revolver burn, also has scars on his face. 

In Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare uncle has no gloves on and there is no scorpion scar on his hand.

Dude, Red is obviously Uncle.

[Secura]

Uncle is Red. Wears a glove on his right hand to hide the scorpion revolver burn, also has scars on his face. 

In Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare uncle has no gloves on and there is no scorpion scar on his hand.

Dude, Red is obviously Uncle.

And you have a fully functioning lightsaber.

 

For some reason or another I have a hard time believing either.

[AceRay]

Who the f*ck thinks Red is John? Have those people even played the game and found out that John's dad was a drunken Scotsman and his mother was a prostitute and that it contradicts Red's past.

 

As others have said, Red is Uncle, but even that's a stretch tbh.

[Backfire6]

A PC version, I don't give 2 sh*ts about anything else.

Then gtfo out of here.

 

Where is the source of this info about a third game? I never heard a thing about them making another.

Even if they did they would have to add cars to it since if its set even later there isn't going to be much horse riding.

Vehicles kind of boomed around that time more and more people had horseless carriages/Model Ts and Model As etc

getting away from the steam powered vehicles.

[dannyz]

My wish is kind of specific and unpopular...

 

It'd be interesting, cinematic-wise, if we controlled different characters as we progress in the story. Like The Last of Us. I consider TLOU to be a hallmark in terms of video game narrative, and think that's what games should study if they want their stories to truly take advantage of the medium. As most of us know, Red Dead Redemption did something similar at the very end when we switch to Jack.

 

For example, we have our gunslinging anti-hero to explore the open world. But during missions there are points where a cutscene puts us in control of a Native American. And back to the gunslinger. Know what I mean? For the sake of the story and overall enjoyment, we're always connected to the action on screen.

 

GTAV lets you switch between protagonists at any point when off a mission, but when you're doing a mission with all the protagonists there are points that automatically switch for you. It's cinematic.

 

Honestly I'm just throwing around thoughts, but it's something I think games will continue to explore as we get into the next generation of consoles. So who knows. By the time a new Red Dead is announced, this presentation of story in games might be normal.

In Red Dead Revolver you get to do a little bit of that, a couple of levels you control Shadow Wolf and Buffalo Soldier. I think for the next game they have to go back to when the West was just starting and you get to be a real outlaw going from town to town killing and stealing.

[GunWrath]

 

Who the f*ck thinks Red is John? Have those people even played the game and found out that John's dad was a drunken Scotsman and his mother was a prostitute and that it contradicts Red's past.

 

As others have said, Red is Uncle, but even that's a stretch tbh.

Acouple of us do and we think so spiritually, of course he's not the same 'character' but he was definitely the inspiration of Red.

 

Nah, we haven't played, RDR. We just like to get into debates we know nothing of. But seriously, yes, y'all make clear points with the story not leading from Red, but like I said in an earlier post, gaming is far different these days than when RDRevolver was released. Games then had slow to hardly no stories and just involved action and gaming. Games these days, the player demands a deep, impacting story to a protagonist, especially on a larger game magnitude such as RDRedemption. So it's possible that Red was the inspiration behind Marston (or actually is Marston, just a bit tuned) with a 'new' story in place to attract the play more.

 

Because if you honestly think a developer would make two different characters with the same scarring if they didn't build Marston around Red? It's too much of a coincidence. Red is most definitely not Uncle, I can promise you that.. he one, don't even have the same features as Red did, two, even the game dictactes that Uncle isn't even of relation to the Marstons, they just call him Uncle.

 

But yeah, John and Red share too much physical resemblance not to be the same or atleast Marston was constructed by Red overall. But I believe their stance is the same as well.

 

Anyways, how's about this for a theory, because even before R* came with RDR, they said, 'there will be a twist'.. and I'm sure this is it.

 

It could go something like, after Red killed the governer at the end of Revolver he reinvented himself in order to hide from the government/the governers criminal partners. At the turn of the century the governers associates find Red living a normal life under the name of John Marston and decide to take their revenge, starting the story of Redemption

 

Because in RDR, he has "retired" from the outlaw life.. and he has the younger son, etc, etc. Sets up perfectly for me.

[OchyGTA]

Who the f*ck thinks Red is John? Have those people even played the game and found out that John's dad was a drunken Scotsman and his mother was a prostitute and that it contradicts Red's past.

 

As others have said, Red is Uncle, but even that's a stretch tbh.

Acouple of us do and we think so spiritually, of course he's not the same 'character' but he was definitely the inspiration of Red.

 

Nah, we haven't played, RDR. We just like to get into debates we know nothing of. But seriously, yes, y'all make clear points with the story not leading from Red, but like I said in an earlier post, gaming is far different these days than when RDRevolver was released. Games then had slow to hardly no stories and just involved action and gaming. Games these days, the player demands a deep, impacting story to a protagonist, especially on a larger game magnitude such as RDRedemption. So it's possible that Red was the inspiration behind Marston (or actually is Marston, just a bit tuned) with a 'new' story in place to attract the play more.

 

Because if you honestly think a developer would make two different characters with the same scarring if they didn't build Marston around Red? It's too much of a coincidence. Red is most definitely not Uncle, I can promise you that.. he one, don't even have the same features as Red did, two, even the game dictactes that Uncle isn't even of relation to the Marstons, they just call him Uncle.

 

But yeah, John and Red share too much physical resemblance not to be the same or atleast Marston was constructed by Red overall. But I believe their stance is the same as well.

 

Anyways, how's about this for a theory, because even before R* came with RDR, they said, 'there will be a twist'.. and I'm sure this is it.

 

It could go something like, after Red killed the governer at the end of Revolver he reinvented himself in order to hide from the government/the governers criminal partners. At the turn of the century the governers associates find Red living a normal life under the name of John Marston and decide to take their revenge, starting the story of Redemption

 

Because in RDR, he has "retired" from the outlaw life.. and he has the younger son, etc, etc. Sets up perfectly for me.

I haven't got round too writing an appropriate response yet but you've pretty much summed up everything I was trying too argue. I think you are absolutely spot on in that John is heavily inspired by Red and that both his physical appearance and mental/emotional state derive from him.

At the end of the day, it's incredibly hard not to draw parallels between the characters, and to be honest, I think there are enough similarities too insinuate the Red and John are the same character in spirit, but not necessarily in canon.

[Secura]

A bunch of trollop.

Red is neither John or Uncle, I have told you why and the fact that they've got similar scars on their faces is the only thing you've got going for you, from their bone structure to their personalities they are different people.

 

Perhaps Red was the base character they built off of but it's so far removed you might as well be comparing a wagon and horse to the bullet train.

 

[GunWrath]

Lightning, it's obvious you have been mislead.

 

It's more than scarring on the face, their stance, stature and even their shooting style is the same. Have you even played Red Dead Revolver? Even their hair has the same attributes. I'm not sure what you're leading your information from? Because the story doesn't say so? If so, read my last 'couple posts and you'll see why the story doesn't add up into that. Developers have to make changes when the consumers evolve and demand something else.

 

But yeah, I've played Revolver upon it's release thoroughly and multiple times. I wouldn't match Red with John if I didn't think they were the same. It's more than just inspiration that lead to Marston. But even Rockstar slated that Redemption will be Revolver's 'spiritual successor'. Hell, even Annie from Revolver looks exactly like Bonnie McFarlane.. which is why I say they changed the story up for a more dramatic approach.

 

You need to learn how to think outside the box man.. Marston is Red more than anything. Bonnie is Annie, more than anything.