Why hold anything back?

[Dr Bannington]

Hindsight is 20-20. Every time a game developer makes a bad choice in a great and long standing franchise they listen to fan reactions and take advice. Then they implement those ideas that they know the fans want into the next game.

 

But once they start development on the next game they keep everything hush hush and only give the fans a little info. Then the new game comes out and theres problems and bad development choices in that one too and the cycle starts over again.

 

My question is - why hold anything from us? If they're going to add a new feature or something into a game why wait until after the game is finished and on store shelves to listen to fans? If you know fans want something in a game why leave it out for "artistic integrity" and face the impending backlash?

 

I feel that Rockstar did not continue this cycle with V all the way. Yes they are holding back info but i dont feel its anything to be worried about. It seems that they did listen to their fans initial reaction to the features they were going to leave out and fixed the problem before they released the game.

 

I understand these companies hold back info so there are surprises and things to discover when the consumer plays but if it is story critical, or a risky new gameplay feature, or an old feature theyre not sure of then I think they should do a better job of interacting with fans before and during development.

 

Obviously not everything every fan says is a good idea but when you have the majority of people saying "we want this" or "we dont want that" or "this should be different" then it should be something for them to consider.

[Dope_0110]

1. Most fans don't have no idea if something can be implemented or not and at what cost.

 

2. Most fans have sh*tty ideas (Rockstar would be forced to make 23242 cities if they asked fans of this forum about it).

 

3. They want to surprise you, not have you know everything about the game. It's their game for you to enjoy.

 

4. They have a vision and need to make it without interference from ''douchefans''. It's their game for you to enjoy.

 

5. Have you ever worked on something, then someone else comes along and starts acting like a smart ass telling you how to do that. If you have, you'd know why that is bad. Now imagine thousands of those smartasses bothering you at the same time.

 

6. Rockstar knows what's best for GTA, not you or any other fan. It's their franchise. If they were stupid GTA would have never become what it is in the first place so they can do whatever they want. You and everyone else will either reward them or punish them for their work by buying it or not buying it depending on the quality of their work.

 

7. Most fans, trust me on this one, DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR THEM.

[Nemesis2252]

they hold back info because people are afraid of change. look at the one city thing and how much backlash there was on it. whenever change happens, people are afraid it will break the game and ruin the franchise.... before they even try the game. no matter what companies reveal, there will always be part of the fan base that cries about it.

[Dr Bannington]

1. Most fans don't have no idea if something can be implemented or not and at what cost.

 

2. Most fans have sh*tty ideas (Rockstar would be forced to make 23242 cities if they asked fans of this forum about it).

 

3. They want to surprise you, not have you know everything about the game. It's their game for you to enjoy.

 

4. They have a vision and need to make it without interference from ''douchefans''. It's their game for you to enjoy.

 

5. Have you ever worked on something, then someone else comes along and starts acting like a smart ass telling you how to do that. If you have, you'd know why that is bad. Now imagine thousands of those smartasses bothering you at the same time.

 

6. Rockstar knows what's best for GTA, not you or any other fan. It's their franchise. If they were stupid GTA would have never become what it is in the first place so they can do whatever they want. You and everyone else will either reward them or punish them for their work by buying it or not buying it depending on the quality of their work.

 

7. Most fans, trust me on this one, DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR THEM.

#5 definitely put it in perspective lol i hate when someone tells me how to do my job.

 

 

Now I'm not saying discuss everything with the fans down to a science. I just mean that when it comes to a new feature that theyre not 100% sure fans will like then they should release info about it before the game is finished to get feedback. Rememer not all surprises are good.

 

Strictly hypothetical - Imagine if GTA V has no motorcycles but Rockstar didnt tell us. Then we play the game and people go crazy because theyre not in. It would have been better for them to let us know that they'll be absent because then they would probably change their minds after all the fans say its a bad idea.

[Dope_0110]

 

#5 definitely put it in perspective lol i hate when someone tells me how to do my job.

 

 

Now I'm not saying discuss everything with the fans down to a science. I just mean that when it comes to a new feature that theyre not 100% sure fans will like then they should release info about it before the game is finished to get feedback. Rememer not all surprises are good.

 

Strictly hypothetical - Imagine if GTA V has no motorcycles but Rockstar didnt tell us. Then we play the game and people go crazy because theyre not in. It would have been better for them to let us know that they'll be absent because then they would probably change their minds after all the fans say its a bad idea.

Yeah, but if and when they decide to remove a previous feature they certainly think about it for a long time, consider alternatives and have a proper reason why to do so.

 

Like diving in IV, they must have though about it and realized it's not much of a deal, probably had problems with making it work too as it was a new engine and they had to make it all flow good. But, had they asked fans, a lot of them would probably be like ''OMG NO I CUTZ MY WRISTZ WHY NO CAN DIVE''. Instead they just did it and it's all good. They removed a lot of mini games and countryside and it's still all good even though I'd personally love countryside and thought it's a must after SA. But I understand it wouldn't fit in with the game and it would either be grim as the game or would stand out too much if it was a normal vibrant countryside.

 

The same goes for any new features, they discuss them a lot, see if it can be done with the engine and how much work would it take and then if it's possible make it. Then the Quality Assurance team (the best replacement for fans) tests the feature and decides if it should be in or not. They had that skateboard in SA files. It probably just didn't work good enough and they removed it. So that's why they have that team and test the game themselves. They make sure it work good and is fun, they don't really take the chances by just putting it in there and seeing if it works with fans. That's why many features are removed, just read GTA IV or SA beta wiki and you'll see how many things are removed, but they certainly had a reason.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Dope_0110

[Gigabomber]

I'm not trying to hickjack or derail the thread, but look at how the xb1 hate has changed things: MS is responding to feedback based on the fans false perception of what owning the system would be like and now we will never get to see if their plans would be a leap forward and several new features have been lost. You really want the same people's input on GTA? All we would get is GTA retreads...

[FAH-Q]

I don't think they put those features in AFTER fans reaction. i think they were in the whole time, but with the whole "keeping more info back" scheme, they wanted to surprise us.

[Dr Bannington]

@dope_0110 yea I can understand that and for the most part I trust Rockstar to make the best decisions they can. I never knew they almost put skateboards in SA. I wonder if they finally made it work for V.

[RedDagger]

Two things: one, this just seems like a long-winded way of saying 'I want infooo nao!1!' and I can't really view it as anything but.

 

Two, I'm sure the developers don't want thousands of people who have little to no idea how games are put together and made, plus the vocal majority would want to make it as generic as possible.

[Dr Bannington]

I'm not trying to hickjack or derail the thread, but look at how the xb1 hate has changed things: MS is responding to feedback based on the fans false perception of what owning the system would be like and now we will never get to see if their plans would be a leap forward and several new features have been lost. You really want the same people's input on GTA? All we would get is GTA retreads...

I was one of those people that hated on it initially. It wasnt until after they changed it that i realized the possibilites would have been amazing had they kept the always online feature.

 

But this is why I also said above "not everything every fan says is a good idea" lol

[Dr Bannington]

Two things: one, this just seems like a long-winded way of saying 'I want infooo nao!1!' and I can't really view it as anything but.

 

Two, I'm sure the developers don't want thousands of people who have little to no idea how games are put together and made, plus the vocal majority would want to make it as generic as possible.

One - that wasnt my intention but it does sort of sound like that lol

 

Two - im not saying have a town meeting with all the fans in the high school gym. But maybe check out what most people are saying on forums and message boards more often. Read people reactions to the news that was jst released. Send out more betas for people to try out. For the most part theyre going to do what they do best but it doesnt hurt to give the fans what they want

[Dope_0110]

 

@dope_0110 yea I can understand that and for the most part I trust Rockstar to make the best decisions they can. I never knew they almost put skateboards in SA. I wonder if they finally made it work for V.

Yeah, there was a skateboard in the game files that PC modders found with icon, models and even that it was supposed to be introduced in Madd Doggs mission when you steal his rhyme book. They even defined which surfaces in the game world were driveable on using skate and all that. AND it was meant to be used as a weapon too.

 

But I guess it was just hard to make it work properly and they settled with nor including it at all. Now I also believe they could've easily made one mode work (probably easier as a weapon), but having it as a weapon and being unable to ride it would make no sense.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Dope_0110

[kjacked]

they hold back info because people are afraid of change. look at the one city thing and how much backlash there was on it. whenever change happens, people are afraid it will break the game and ruin the franchise.... before they even try the game. no matter what companies reveal, there will always be part of the fan base that cries about it.