Why do people even think the Illuminati exist?

[lil weasel]

 

o this idea that the US wilfully created the Taliban, much less al-Qaeda, is utterly false.

Where did That come from?

 

[sivispacem]

o this idea that the US wilfully created the Taliban, much less al-Qaeda, is utterly false.

Where did That come from?

When you claimed that Bush trained, equipped and financed them in the early days? But your right, perhaps "wilfully engaged with" would be fairer. Still equally true. The US never gave material assistance, either direct or indirect, to al-Qaeda or any affiliate.

[lil weasel]

 

The US never gave material assistance, either direct or indirect, to al-Qaeda or any affiliate.

neither did it in or around Nicaragua...

[sivispacem]

The US never gave material assistance, either direct or indirect, to al-Qaeda or any affiliate.

neither did it in or around Nicaragua...

No, the US did support the Contras. The same way the supported the Mujahideen. But the Taliban and Mujahideen aren't the same thing, and al-Qaeda and the Mujahideen certainly aren't. Which just goes to show how you managed to entirely miss the point I was making.

[Acehilm]

Everyone wants someone to blame for their mis-fortunes.

 

Just like the government blamed al-qaeda for the 9/11 attacks?

Why not expand on this? It seems like an important thing to expand on being so controversial seeing as strategic discourse of the past decade has been to neutralize transnational jihadist actors and to dismantle alongside with functional governments takfiri non-state actors. You make it sound like its stupid to believe that al-qaeda are to be blamed for 9/11.

I think he didn't expand on it because he knows it's an idiotic, untenable argument and he just wants to be contrary to seem edgy and cool.

I didn't say that to contray to seem edgy or cool - I said it because it is true. There is nothing for me to expand on, you know exactly what I'm trying to say.

[RoadRunner71]

 

The US never gave material assistance, either direct or indirect, to al-Qaeda or any affiliate.

neither did it in or around Nicaragua...

...and the half of South and Central American countries, as well as African guerrillas not very respectful with the human being... You guys should check out The Secret Wars of the CIA, a lecture given by a former CIA officer about these cover operations, you'd be surprised...

 

 

Edited June 24, 2013 by RoadRunner71

[Xylophobia]

 

Everyone wants someone to blame for their mis-fortunes.

 

Just like the government blamed al-qaeda for the 9/11 attacks?

Why not expand on this? It seems like an important thing to expand on being so controversial seeing as strategic discourse of the past decade has been to neutralize transnational jihadist actors and to dismantle alongside with functional governments takfiri non-state actors. You make it sound like its stupid to believe that al-qaeda are to be blamed for 9/11.

I think he didn't expand on it because he knows it's an idiotic, untenable argument and he just wants to be contrary to seem edgy and cool.

Personally I believe most of the Americans and its western allies are totally brainwashed, it's no wonder bright minds come from Eastern Europe these days.

 

Oh and tell me, why do those ex-CIA, FBI or Army members come to publicity and declare different type of things? Are they f*cking out of their mind? I doubt. And why they disappear after they do that?

[stinomontana]

 

 

 

[Happyness]

Because a building logically falls vertically.

 

Also don't give me that "steel melted" bullsh*t card, it was made to be resistant to fire and whatnot. More than that I won't comment.

[Brad]

Everyone wants someone to blame for their mis-fortunes.

 

Just like the government blamed al-qaeda for the 9/11 attacks?

Why not expand on this? It seems like an important thing to expand on being so controversial seeing as strategic discourse of the past decade has been to neutralize transnational jihadist actors and to dismantle alongside with functional governments takfiri non-state actors. You make it sound like its stupid to believe that al-qaeda are to be blamed for 9/11.

I think he didn't expand on it because he knows it's an idiotic, untenable argument and he just wants to be contrary to seem edgy and cool.

I didn't say that to contray to seem edgy or cool - I said it because it is true. There is nothing for me to expand on, you know exactly what I'm trying to say.

Well, yes you do. You asserted a point that falls contrary to most scholarly, academic knowledge so you do need to expand on it.

[sivispacem]

Everyone wants someone to blame for their mis-fortunes.

 

Just like the government blamed al-qaeda for the 9/11 attacks?

Why not expand on this? It seems like an important thing to expand on being so controversial seeing as strategic discourse of the past decade has been to neutralize transnational jihadist actors and to dismantle alongside with functional governments takfiri non-state actors. You make it sound like its stupid to believe that al-qaeda are to be blamed for 9/11.

I think he didn't expand on it because he knows it's an idiotic, untenable argument and he just wants to be contrary to seem edgy and cool.

Personally I believe most of the Americans and its western allies are totally brainwashed, it's no wonder bright minds come from Eastern Europe these days.

 

Oh and tell me, why do those ex-CIA, FBI or Army members come to publicity and declare different type of things? Are they f*cking out of their mind? I doubt. And why they disappear after they do that?

And let me guess, you are one of these Eastern European harbingers of truth? Are you actually trying to make a point, or are you just saying things which may or may not actually have any bearing on reality or indeed relevance to the discussion at hand? Exactly how can you quantify claiming that a good portion of the Western world is brainwashed with no evidence, no supporting sources, andono clear prior credit on the subject?

 

Some hilarious manifestations of the Dunning-Kruger effect in this thread.

[Xylophobia]

Everyone wants someone to blame for their mis-fortunes.

 

Just like the government blamed al-qaeda for the 9/11 attacks?

Why not expand on this? It seems like an important thing to expand on being so controversial seeing as strategic discourse of the past decade has been to neutralize transnational jihadist actors and to dismantle alongside with functional governments takfiri non-state actors. You make it sound like its stupid to believe that al-qaeda are to be blamed for 9/11.

I think he didn't expand on it because he knows it's an idiotic, untenable argument and he just wants to be contrary to seem edgy and cool.

Personally I believe most of the Americans and its western allies are totally brainwashed, it's no wonder bright minds come from Eastern Europe these days.

 

Oh and tell me, why do those ex-CIA, FBI or Army members come to publicity and declare different type of things? Are they f*cking out of their mind? I doubt. And why they disappear after they do that?

And let me guess, you are one of these Eastern European harbingers of truth? Are you actually trying to make a point, or are you just saying things which may or may not actually have any bearing on reality or indeed relevance to the discussion at hand? Exactly how can you quantify claiming that a good portion of the Western world is brainwashed with no evidence, no supporting sources, andono clear prior credit on the subject?

 

Some hilarious manifestations of the Dunning-Kruger effect in this thread.

I swear you're the biggest twat I've ever seen in my life. So answer my question, smart guy, I've asked something in my previous post.

[rudy]

twat

Chill.

 

You're welcome, mods!

[sivispacem]

 

I swear you're the biggest twat I've ever seen in my life.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is lesson #1 of the "idiots guide to ensuring that no one tries to engage in rational discussion with you" manual. As for your question, I didn't respond because there was and is no clear link with the topic at hand. Unless you are claiming that it is ex-intelligence services personnel claiming the existence of the modern Illuminati. Which is just silly. Also, by "all" I think you mean "a very small number of" and "disappear" I assume you just forgot to caveat with "from the public eye as they know their claims can neither be confirmed or denied, and basically the only way they will avoid a lengthy prison sentence is to flee the country". Also, care to provide me with some examples demonstrating how endemic this issue is as you seem happy to imply?

 

Also, I'm fairly confident you've never seen me.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, wait, I remember you. Your the one who called homosexuality "sick-minded" and claimed that everyone was born straight and all those terrible homosexuals actively chose to risk being shunned and vilified because they are evil.

 

And you have the audacity to label ME a twat.

Edited June 24, 2013 by sivispacem

[Shyabang Shyabang]

What laymen seem to forget is that entertainment is business like any other industry and that it's all about money. Which pretty much explains/justifies singers saying things along the lines of "I sold my soul to the devil' with the devil referring to the corporate component of entertainment. Which is, and I speak from experience as I have had dealings with entertainment companies in the past - tough as nails. They don't really care that much about the quality of the song, movie - they care about generating as much revenue as possible - business in a nutshell. Sony Music Entertainment for example:

 

 

I heard that Sony and all the other large Japanese companies used to be considered as underdogs who made good quality products. People didn't think that several years later during the late 80s, the American news media would start Japan bashing and warning about the possible Japanese economic dominance over the US. Even a movie called Rising Sun depicted this possibility. Back to the Future II shows Marty McFly working for a Japanese boss. It's not quite how the real future turned out to be. I bet the present situation would be even more shocking to the people of the 1980s than they ever imagined.

[LTA1992]

I don't believe the Illuminati but I do believe that there are people pulling the strings above government. I mean come on, people keep telling me (After I tell them all the wrong being done in the White House) how Obama almost got assassinated. My rebuttal? If Obama was supposed to be assassinated, it would have been for not following orders. The last president that wanted to expose things considered by the public to be "Conspiracy Theory" was shot in the head in his car, next to his wife. JFK. This War on Terror, another thing that's here in order to scare people. That's going to go on forever because there is no enemy to fight. Currently, we are messing with Iran on the claim they have WMDs which is completely false. We are there because Iran wants to sell their oil for Euros and not Dollars. The last country that tried to create a new currency for oil sale or sell for another currency (Iraq) got its infrastructure f*cked up. And mind you, the war in Afghanistan was planned in 2000.

 

Syria, the current event that has it's own anomalies, is the thing that you may need to watch. Other than our own CIA helping with the destabilization there, the possibility of a new war is very high. Whether it does or not will depend on what we or Jerusalem does. From what I can see, the Situation could peak by the end of the year. The type of war is the mystery though some are thinking World War due to the players involved.

[sivispacem]

I find that a lot of proponents of this kind of theory seem to drastically overestimate the capability and competence of those they accuse of being complicit. Things like the "putting symbols in media to mock us" crap really isn't what a competent secret omnipresent government would do if it wanted to conceal its existence, woukd it? Which leaves two viable options-either the government conducting these secret operations isn't very good-in which case we have nothing to fear, or it isn't actually happening in the first place-ditto.

 

LTA1992- I sort of get the point you are trying to make but I question your use of examples-you've made an assumption based on questionable evidence that fits a hypothesis you have already suggested when your examples veer between logical leaps that aren't self-evident and policy/history/strategy related inaccuracies. I can go into more depth and detail if you like, in relation to specific examples?