Clothing Movement Removed?

[theworldfamous]

 

At approx. 9:02.

yeah those are just some dynamic points that influence the edges of his shirt. That's nowhere near a cloth simulation like you'd do in Bender, which in turn is way more advanced than what's possible in a game.

This vid shows the difference between a cloth sim and what Max Payne does. If you look closely you see that in right screen the long coats are still sort of attached to the body and bend with the legs. There's added dynamics that make it move like cloth, but it's not like the real thing. That's what I meant by trick.. I don't know crap about how it's calculated.. but I do know how those characters are rigged (a bit).

 

Look, I have seen that video previously, and no there is no difference between the two except for three things.

 

1. PhysX's Cloth is much more accurate (consists of more samples).

2. Max Payne 3's Cloth is executed on the CPU, PhysX's simulations are executed on the GPU (Using the CUDA GPGPU API).

3. Mafia 2's Simulations are applied on NPCs as well.

 

Other than that, both are simulations, there is no trick or anything.

 

 

 

To learn more about this tech. Here http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1327...in_.php?print=1

They're both simulations, no disputing that. The terms are just confusing here. They're both soft body simulations. The difference I'm talking about is that the simpler version of it that most games use are only a few dynamic points (samples) that are constrained to the rig. The clothing mesh is part of the skin and bound to the skeleton. On top of that they add the points that make the coat tails move and such.

 

If it's a full cloth simulation you don't have to bind it to anything. It will drape around and collide with the body as it moves. But like you say it involves way more points or samples, and the entire character's body needs to be a rigid body.

 

The simulation isn't much different. It's all just dynamic points that react to forces so I can imagine those calculations don't change much. But the way it's applied is different.

 

The APEX solution actually looks like a mix of both, the upper body doesn't look dynamic at all. But it works pretty well, consider the age. I don't know if you've seen the dynamic hair in Tomb Raider, but that was terrible.

Now I think I completely comprehend what you're trying to imply.

 

Also you mean that TressFX? Yeah that definitely needs some work, but still a step forward regardless.

yeah, convincing hair is a step up from cloth. But it's cool anyway that GPU solutions are getting so much better. It's now possible to do sh*t that literally took days to calculate not so many years ago.

 

@raduG: on the left looks more like a bug. The bump map gets mirrored. On the right I don't see any movement. That's just light on the front of his shirt and flickering pixels on his sleeve. If you look at the bottom edge near the buttons you can see that the crease doesn't change when it should. It's just a bump map.

[DODI3OG]

NO! It's not removed. Look closely on Franklin's and Trevor's clothes!

[nigelhere9901]

 

NO! It's not removed. Look closely on Franklin's and Trevor's clothes!

Even Michael has it.

 

[RaduG]

 

@raduG: on the left looks more like a bug. The bump map gets mirrored. On the right I don't see any movement. That's just light on the front of his shirt and flickering pixels on his sleeve. If you look at the bottom edge near the buttons you can see that the crease doesn't change when it should. It's just a bump map.

I am pretty sure that's not a bug. It's the same effect used in Max Payne 3. If you watch it frame by frame you will notice that there are 2-3 normal maps blending according to Trevor's movements.

 

[stranger44]

This is the kinda stuff that PhysX used to deal with. Remember PhysX? That weird, advanced physics system seen in games like Mirror's Edge & Mafia II where it handles cloth and glass physics? The funny thing about PhysX is that it was so ridiculously resource hungry that they actually tried to develop and market PPU's (Physics Processing Units) until people realised how stupid that was so developers instead try and do it all off the CPU & GPU and tend to use animations for cloth effects instead of actual cloth physics. And to be fair, a lot of the cloth animations of flags blowing and stuff actually tend to look pretty good.

Edited May 11, 2013 by stranger44

[nigelhere9901]

 

This is the kinda stuff that PhysX used to deal with. Remember PhysX? That weird, advanced physics system seen in games like Mirror's Edge where it handles cloth and glass physics? The funny thing about PhysX is that it was so ridiculously resource hungry that they were actually tried to develop and market PPU's (Physics Processing Units) until people realised how stupid that was so developers instead try and do it all off the CPU & GPU and tend to use animations for cloth effects instead of actual cloth physics. And to be fair, a lot of the cloth animations of flags blowing and stuff actually tend to look pretty good.

Wait wait wait, WHAT THE f*ck?

 

Originally, Ageia made PPU's to handle physics specifically on games, it didn't sell well so Nvidia bought it, that PPU was implemented in the Nvidia 8xxx Series (and in the newer GPUs as well) the GPU handles the physics through CUDA (A GPGPU API), today you can execute any general purpose compute based task on the GPU.

 

Also wtf? "use animations for cloth effects instead of actual cloth physics"? Are you serious? Let me acknowledge you that Cloth Physics (by today's standards) is a very light weight task and can easily be done on the CPU, also, it's only resource hungry when it's being executed on the CPU since it doesn't have much floating point operations per cycle or compute power to handle physics as opposed to the GPU, it's like 4 Cores against Thousands of them. (Like I previously said, cloth physics are not heavy, so this is when assuming fluid simulation i.e. SPH: Smoothed Particle Hydrodynamics or even just Turbulence Particles).

 

You sir somehow managed to fit so much wrong in just one post.

Edited May 11, 2013 by nigelhere9901

[stranger44]

Wait wait wait, WHAT THE f*ck?

 

Originally, Ageia made PPU's to handle physics specifically on games, it didn't sell well so Nvidia bought it, that PPU was implemented in the Nvidia 8xxx Series (and in the newer GPUs as well) the GPU handles the physics through CUDA (A GPGPU API), today you can execute any general purpose compute based task on the GPU.

 

Also wtf? "use animations for cloth effects instead of actual cloth physics"? Are you serious? Let me acknowledge you that Cloth Physics (by today's standards) is a very light weight task and can easily be done on the CPU, also, it's only resource hungry when it's being executed on the CPU since it doesn't have much floating point operations per cycle or compute power to handle physics as opposed to the GPU, it's like 4 Cores against Thousands of them. (Like I previously said, cloth physics are not heavy, so this is when assuming fluid simulation i.e. SPH: Smoothed Particle Hydrodynamics).

 

You sir somehow managed to fit so much wrong in just one post.

You mad bro?

 

Cos I aint even mad bro. Or Chinese.

[nigelhere9901]

Wait wait wait, WHAT THE f*ck?

 

Originally, Ageia made PPU's to handle physics specifically on games, it didn't sell well so Nvidia bought it, that PPU was implemented in the Nvidia 8xxx Series (and in the newer GPUs as well) the GPU handles the physics through CUDA (A GPGPU API), today you can execute any general purpose compute based task on the GPU.

 

Also wtf? "use animations for cloth effects instead of actual cloth physics"? Are you serious? Let me acknowledge you that Cloth Physics (by today's standards) is a very light weight task and can easily be done on the CPU, also, it's only resource hungry when it's being executed on the CPU since it doesn't have much floating point operations per cycle or compute power to handle physics as opposed to the GPU, it's like 4 Cores against Thousands of them. (Like I previously said, cloth physics are not heavy, so this is when assuming fluid simulation i.e. SPH: Smoothed Particle Hydrodynamics).

 

You sir somehow managed to fit so much wrong in just one post.

You mad bro?

 

Cos I aint even mad bro. Or Chinese.

[Darth_Starkiller]

It's still in game. It looks a bit less noticeable, but we can see it in the scene with Franklin walking, Trevor hugging Michael (specially Ron's coat), Trevor carjacking, and in the "really messy" scene, spcially in the bottom of Franklin's shirt and a bit less on Michael's.

[DiegoPotato]

Trailer 2:

 

 

 

 

Trevor's trailer:

 

 

 

Even the "elastic" (I'm not sure how is it called in english) of the bottom of his shirt it's gone:

 

Trailer 2:

 

 

Trevor's trailer:

 

 

 

...I know that this is not a big deal, but some little detail that I noticed. I just wanted to point it out. Why do you guys think this happened? Because of limitations or something? Something similar happened to the explosions.

[Neckbeard]

It's still in but it's more subtle than in the second trailer

[grovestreet2010]

 

It's still in but it's more subtle than in the second trailer

Yeah. I noticed Franklin's tank top moving at the end of his trailer. It's all still there but you have to look at the clothes more closely. The movement is less extreme than before but it's not completely gone.

[DaRkL3AD3R]

I think the OP was talking about this:

 

Yep bingo that's what he's talking about. The normal map dynamics while the character moves. There's none visible in the latest trailers. Hmm...