Clothing Movement Removed?

[savage10-308]

guys im really concerned... michael seemed to have a 9 inch penis in the first few trailers but in the last trailer i would guesstimate it at only 7.5 or 8 inches. im not even sure im gonna buy the game now. rockstar has ruined my life. has it ruined the "experience" for anyone else?

[VATG]

i don't see it... anyone have a gif that can demonstrate what he says?

 

the wind in the first trailer was amazingly beautiful.

[nismo13]

Stop wanting all the same physics as max Payne the game isn't nearly as big as gta. It's not open world there's no activities. It's a shooting based game where the single player took up one disc alone. So just imaging if u through everything else gta has to offer with its open world were talking about like six disc.

i dont understand why they added and removed it. Its not that resource hungry, or so im told.

But it's meaning less to other thing they can add that fit gta. Such as the shooting driving. I rather see trunks being able to open so u can throw a body in than clothes moving. There's certain things that matter for max Payne that don't matter for gta. Honestly I'm not going to be standing on top of the mountains to watch my clothes move. Instead I rather see the draw distance. The glare from the sun. I

 

Sorry if I was being a dick but I'm tired of hearing complaints about this game when it hasn't been released and comparison to a game that yes is made by rockstar but is a complete different game. I can understand rdr because it's open world but the things ppl asking for from max Payne it's not as big as gta. So if u don't see it it's b c it's not important enough for rockstar to add.

You are right about that (adding more features in), and im not complaining about the game, i am just making an observation.

[IronZombie]

Clothing still looks like it bends and crinkles. I think it'll still be in. In the character trailers you see necklaces that move, moving boob physics when that girl gets out of the way. Hell, one of the magazines even said you can see and hear Michael's flip flops clapping as he walks around in them like they would in real life. I don't think Rockstar would skimp on something as important as realistic clothing, especially now that we can customize them to a greater extent, and especially since they already seemed to have it in earlier trailers.

 

[Anonamix]

Hmm seems a bit trivial to me. Maybe if it were a trench coat or something.. but shirts? Not to important IMO. I would like to see better bullet wounds and blood.

[Red Hat]

I hope they don't remove it

 

Yea..

[MosquitoSmasher]

Clothing still looks like it bends and crinkles. I think it'll still be in. In the character trailers you see necklaces that move, moving boob physics when that girl gets out of the way. Hell, one of the magazines even said you can see and hear Michael's flip flops clapping as he walks around in them like they would in real life. I don't think Rockstar would skimp on something as important as realistic clothing, especially now that we can customize them to a greater extent, and especially since they already seemed to have it in earlier trailers.

Holy crap about that sound detail about his flip flops, i hadn't read that, i'm a sucker for details and they just really are going all out again with this one. GTA IV had those aweosme sound details too. Like when driving over a bump or when landing your car on the ground after a steep hill, you'd actually hear the suspension......Rockstar = detail masters. Didn't the first trailer show a waving flag or something? I doubt they'll take those things out.

[chop chop]

Next-Gen will have it, announcement coming soon I'm praying

[STOGE]

Why care about something as trivial as clothing physics?

Because when im standing on the beach as Trevor, wearing nothing but a sarong, i want to see it flapping in the wind.

You want to see what flapping in the wind? Oh, his 'sarong'. Nevermind.

lol

 

but in relation to the point its cool if you have it,but if it has to go to keep the other visuals up to the standard we are seeing then,to be honest, i dont really care.

[MosquitoSmasher]

I guess i never really noticed it before but RDR has some nice clothing physics. The duster coat of Marston's Duster outfit moves realistically when moving around, looks awesome. There's also moving curtains and what not, i'd be surprised if this is not in GTA V. Most of the time with improvements in mechanics and general things in their games, they are implemented into their latest game as well.

[tenpennyisplainevil]

I remember in mafia 2 clothing physic were greatly in the pc version not so much on console. It takes up disk space maybe not a lot but it's something they don't have to go in depth with maybe you'll see it in cut scenes but if it's not in game play I can care less. Anyway again I'm sorry to knock your opinion but this is just mine.

That was clothing physics, which worked perfectly in RDR. And especially since that is more demanding of your system than what we're talking about, I see no trouble in having this in V.

Regarding MP3, that was such a beautiful game. I remember playing New York Minute (where you can also change clothes in the missions), picking the mission in the gang-controlled harbour where fabiana was held, where it was raining. I picked the outfit with white shirt and tie instead of the black clothes he wore in the campaign. I could literally SEE raindrops falling on the shirt and actually creating wet spots! Then I rolled into a pudde, which only his lower back hit. When he got back up, only the places that actually hit the water were wet, he now had a still dry upper back, just like how it'd be IRL. MP3 was amazing indeed...

[satanicaleviathan]

it will be there with the next gen port if they removed it.

[nigelhere9901]

No it isn't removed.

[theworldfamous]

I really enjoyed this feature in max payne 3, because it made the game look a lot more realistic. I really hope Rockstar did not remove this feature.

 

EDIT: I MEANT BUMP MAPPING OF CLOTHES, NOT ACTUAL CLOTHING PHYSICS. MY BAD

No you didn't mean bump mapping. That's something different. Bump mapping is to give fine texture to a surface like grooves in skin, wood, etc. It's a simple black/white texture that controls how light is reflected and give the illusion of bumps. Displacement maps do the same but they make actual bumps in the geometry, but that's only possible with DX11

 

What Max Payne had was physics on the clothes.. but definitely not a full cloth simulation, that's way more detailed. Max Payne just had a couple of points that bounced with his movement. It's a trick, not a real simulation. Like the difference between bumpmaps and displacement maps.

 

I think it wasn't so much removed as never implemented for V. It would be a lot of work to do for V with all the possible outfits that have to conform to different characters. Max had a couple of outfits. And, as simple as it was, it's still a relatively heavy effect computationally and I think they rather spend that processing power on more immediately visible things like more cars and peds. Max Payne is much more focused game so they could enable more advanced effects. The PC version gets the DX11 treatment and everything. I guess that was Rockstar testing the waters for the next gen.

 

 

[tenpennyisplainevil]

^^^ Max has more outfits than you think, enough to give each protag 3 or more.

[nigelhere9901]

I really enjoyed this feature in max payne 3, because it made the game look a lot more realistic. I really hope Rockstar did not remove this feature.

 

EDIT: I MEANT BUMP MAPPING OF CLOTHES, NOT ACTUAL CLOTHING PHYSICS. MY BAD

No you didn't mean bump mapping. That's something different. Bump mapping is to give fine texture to a surface like grooves in skin, wood, etc. It's a simple black/white texture that controls how light is reflected and give the illusion of bumps. Displacement maps do the same but they make actual bumps in the geometry, but that's only possible with DX11

 

What Max Payne had was physics on the clothes.. but definitely not a full cloth simulation, that's way more detailed. Max Payne just had a couple of points that bounced with his movement. It's a trick, not a real simulation. Like the difference between bumpmaps and displacement maps.

 

I think it wasn't so much removed as never implemented for V. It would be a lot of work to do for V with all the possible outfits that have to conform to different characters. Max had a couple of outfits. And, as simple as it was, it's still a relatively heavy effect computationally and I think they rather spend that processing power on more immediately visible things like more cars and peds. Max Payne is much more focused game so they could enable more advanced effects. The PC version gets the DX11 treatment and everything. I guess that was Rockstar testing the waters for the next gen.

It is not a trick, it is compute based simulation (general purpose task) reliant on the floating operations per second.

[Wheatley]

I remember in mafia 2 clothing physic were greatly in the pc version not so much on console. It takes up disk space maybe not a lot but it's something they don't have to go in depth with maybe you'll see it in cut scenes but if it's not in game play I can care less. Anyway again I'm sorry to knock your opinion but this is just mine.

That was clothing physics, which worked perfectly in RDR. And especially since that is more demanding of your system than what we're talking about, I see no trouble in having this in V.

Regarding MP3, that was such a beautiful game. I remember playing New York Minute (where you can also change clothes in the missions), picking the mission in the gang-controlled harbour where fabiana was held, where it was raining. I picked the outfit with white shirt and tie instead of the black clothes he wore in the campaign. I could literally SEE raindrops falling on the shirt and actually creating wet spots! Then I rolled into a pudde, which only his lower back hit. When he got back up, only the places that actually hit the water were wet, he now had a still dry upper back, just like how it'd be IRL. MP3 was amazing indeed...

I wish Max Payne 3 won the awards it was nominated for. It makes me sad that not even the Developer's Choice Awards nominated for any awards.

 

 

-Wheatley

[theworldfamous]

I really enjoyed this feature in max payne 3, because it made the game look a lot more realistic. I really hope Rockstar did not remove this feature.

 

EDIT: I MEANT BUMP MAPPING OF CLOTHES, NOT ACTUAL CLOTHING PHYSICS. MY BAD

No you didn't mean bump mapping. That's something different. Bump mapping is to give fine texture to a surface like grooves in skin, wood, etc. It's a simple black/white texture that controls how light is reflected and give the illusion of bumps. Displacement maps do the same but they make actual bumps in the geometry, but that's only possible with DX11

 

What Max Payne had was physics on the clothes.. but definitely not a full cloth simulation, that's way more detailed. Max Payne just had a couple of points that bounced with his movement. It's a trick, not a real simulation. Like the difference between bumpmaps and displacement maps.

 

I think it wasn't so much removed as never implemented for V. It would be a lot of work to do for V with all the possible outfits that have to conform to different characters. Max had a couple of outfits. And, as simple as it was, it's still a relatively heavy effect computationally and I think they rather spend that processing power on more immediately visible things like more cars and peds. Max Payne is much more focused game so they could enable more advanced effects. The PC version gets the DX11 treatment and everything. I guess that was Rockstar testing the waters for the next gen.

It is not a trick, it is compute based simulation (general purpose task) reliant on the floating operations per second.

trick as in it fools you into thinking the whole clothing piece is dynamic, while it's only a couple of points.

[GTAGuy]

The clothing wrinkle effects are still there, but a little more subdued I think. If you look at the back of Franklin's shirt at the end of his trailer you can clearly see the shirt wrinkling as he walks.

[nigelhere9901]

I really enjoyed this feature in max payne 3, because it made the game look a lot more realistic. I really hope Rockstar did not remove this feature.

 

EDIT: I MEANT BUMP MAPPING OF CLOTHES, NOT ACTUAL CLOTHING PHYSICS. MY BAD

No you didn't mean bump mapping. That's something different. Bump mapping is to give fine texture to a surface like grooves in skin, wood, etc. It's a simple black/white texture that controls how light is reflected and give the illusion of bumps. Displacement maps do the same but they make actual bumps in the geometry, but that's only possible with DX11

 

What Max Payne had was physics on the clothes.. but definitely not a full cloth simulation, that's way more detailed. Max Payne just had a couple of points that bounced with his movement. It's a trick, not a real simulation. Like the difference between bumpmaps and displacement maps.

 

I think it wasn't so much removed as never implemented for V. It would be a lot of work to do for V with all the possible outfits that have to conform to different characters. Max had a couple of outfits. And, as simple as it was, it's still a relatively heavy effect computationally and I think they rather spend that processing power on more immediately visible things like more cars and peds. Max Payne is much more focused game so they could enable more advanced effects. The PC version gets the DX11 treatment and everything. I guess that was Rockstar testing the waters for the next gen.

It is not a trick, it is compute based simulation (general purpose task) reliant on the floating operations per second.

trick as in it fools you into thinking the whole clothing piece is dynamic, while it's only a couple of points.

I'm not really getting you, a Cloth Simulation obviously consists of multiple points joint together, for instance, refer to Blender's Cloth Simulation, you can edit the preset sample values.

 

That being said, it is dynamic, it will react realistically to the collision at scene.

 

I'll show you a video just wait.

[nigelhere9901]

 

 

At approx. 9:02.

[theworldfamous]

 

At approx. 9:02.

yeah those are just some dynamic points that influence the edges of his shirt. That's nowhere near a cloth simulation like you'd do in Bender, which in turn is way more advanced than what's possible in a game.

This vid shows the difference between a cloth sim and what Max Payne does. If you look closely you see that in right screen the long coats are still sort of attached to the body and bend with the legs. There's added dynamics that make it move like cloth, but it's not like the real thing. That's what I meant by trick.. I don't know crap about how it's calculated.. but I do know how those characters are rigged (a bit).

 

 

[nigelhere9901]

 

 

At approx. 9:02.

yeah those are just some dynamic points that influence the edges of his shirt. That's nowhere near a cloth simulation like you'd do in Bender, which in turn is way more advanced than what's possible in a game.

This vid shows the difference between a cloth sim and what Max Payne does. If you look closely you see that in right screen the long coats are still sort of attached to the body and bend with the legs. There's added dynamics that make it move like cloth, but it's not like the real thing. That's what I meant by trick.. I don't know crap about how it's calculated.. but I do know how those characters are rigged (a bit).

 

Look, I have seen that video previously, and no there is no difference between the two except for three things.

 

1. PhysX's Cloth is much more accurate (consists of more samples).

2. Max Payne 3's Cloth is executed on the CPU, PhysX's simulations are executed on the GPU (Using the CUDA GPGPU API).

3. Mafia 2's Simulations are applied on NPCs as well.

 

Other than that, both are simulations, there is no trick or anything.

 

 

 

To learn more about this tech. Here http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1327...in_.php?print=1

Edited May 10, 2013 by nigelhere9901

[LeFox]

if it is gone for performance idc.

[Dotseoem]

Why care about something as trivial as clothing physics?

Uhhh... It's Detail.

That's why.

[nigelhere9901]

The clothing wrinkle effects are still there, but a little more subdued I think. If you look at the back of Franklin's shirt at the end of his trailer you can clearly see the shirt wrinkling as he walks.

Wrinkles are just Normal/Bump mapping, they do not have any relation with cloth physics.

[theworldfamous]

 

At approx. 9:02.

yeah those are just some dynamic points that influence the edges of his shirt. That's nowhere near a cloth simulation like you'd do in Bender, which in turn is way more advanced than what's possible in a game.

This vid shows the difference between a cloth sim and what Max Payne does. If you look closely you see that in right screen the long coats are still sort of attached to the body and bend with the legs. There's added dynamics that make it move like cloth, but it's not like the real thing. That's what I meant by trick.. I don't know crap about how it's calculated.. but I do know how those characters are rigged (a bit).

 

Look, I have seen that video previously, and no there is no difference between the two except for three things.

 

1. PhysX's Cloth is much more accurate (consists of more samples).

2. Max Payne 3's Cloth is executed on the CPU, PhysX's simulations are executed on the GPU (Using the CUDA GPGPU API).

3. Mafia 2's Simulations are applied on NPCs as well.

 

Other than that, both are simulations, there is no trick or anything.

 

 

 

To learn more about this tech. Here http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1327...in_.php?print=1

They're both simulations, no disputing that. The terms are just confusing here. They're both soft body simulations. The difference I'm talking about is that the simpler version of it that most games use are only a few dynamic points (samples) that are constrained to the rig. The clothing mesh is part of the skin and bound to the skeleton. On top of that they add the points that make the coat tails move and such.

 

If it's a full cloth simulation you don't have to bind it to anything. It will drape around and collide with the body as it moves. But like you say it involves way more points or samples, and the entire character's body needs to be a rigid body.

 

The simulation isn't much different. It's all just dynamic points that react to forces so I can imagine those calculations don't change much. But the way it's applied is different.

 

The APEX solution actually looks like a mix of both, the upper body doesn't look dynamic at all. But it works pretty well, consider the age. I don't know if you've seen the dynamic hair in Tomb Raider, but that was terrible.

 

 

[nigelhere9901]

 

At approx. 9:02.

yeah those are just some dynamic points that influence the edges of his shirt. That's nowhere near a cloth simulation like you'd do in Bender, which in turn is way more advanced than what's possible in a game.

This vid shows the difference between a cloth sim and what Max Payne does. If you look closely you see that in right screen the long coats are still sort of attached to the body and bend with the legs. There's added dynamics that make it move like cloth, but it's not like the real thing. That's what I meant by trick.. I don't know crap about how it's calculated.. but I do know how those characters are rigged (a bit).

 

Look, I have seen that video previously, and no there is no difference between the two except for three things.

 

1. PhysX's Cloth is much more accurate (consists of more samples).

2. Max Payne 3's Cloth is executed on the CPU, PhysX's simulations are executed on the GPU (Using the CUDA GPGPU API).

3. Mafia 2's Simulations are applied on NPCs as well.

 

Other than that, both are simulations, there is no trick or anything.

 

 

 

To learn more about this tech. Here http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1327...in_.php?print=1

They're both simulations, no disputing that. The terms are just confusing here. They're both soft body simulations. The difference I'm talking about is that the simpler version of it that most games use are only a few dynamic points (samples) that are constrained to the rig. The clothing mesh is part of the skin and bound to the skeleton. On top of that they add the points that make the coat tails move and such.

 

If it's a full cloth simulation you don't have to bind it to anything. It will drape around and collide with the body as it moves. But like you say it involves way more points or samples, and the entire character's body needs to be a rigid body.

 

The simulation isn't much different. It's all just dynamic points that react to forces so I can imagine those calculations don't change much. But the way it's applied is different.

 

The APEX solution actually looks like a mix of both, the upper body doesn't look dynamic at all. But it works pretty well, consider the age. I don't know if you've seen the dynamic hair in Tomb Raider, but that was terrible.

Now I think I completely comprehend what you're trying to imply.

 

Also you mean that TressFX? Yeah that definitely needs some work, but still a step forward regardless.

[GTA_La_Costra_Nostra]

Well they do have a wind effect so...

[RaduG]

I think the OP was talking about this: