Life Sentence vs Death Sentence

[Knife]

So by that logic, if you're poor and on the street kill a man and go to prison, you'll live a better life.

If being in prison is so damn great then why doesn't everyone who's homeless or in a hard place just steal sh*t until they're put in prison? Why do people kill themselves to get out of going to jail? Clearly prison is not a place people want to be.

[Pyrrhic]

Also, as I already pointed out, the more of the victims tax money gets spent on executing someone than imprisoning them for life.

That's a terrible point.

The execution of the murderer is something the victim's loved-ones WANTS.

Do you think they want to be paying for his/her sex change and pay television, things that people on the outside world rarely have?

Of course they don't.

Natalie Russel's parents would pay thousands and thousands of dollars to have Paul (or Paula as he likes to be called now thanks to taxpayer's money) Denyer executed, and I have personally heard them say this in person, not some fancy bullsh*t report.

You still aren't explaining why this can't be applied to other criminals. If I lose all my money in a ponzi scheme and the person who orchestrated it goes to jail, I then have to pay for his food, TV, exercise equipment, bedding, toiletries, electricity and plumbing. In your mind, this is unacceptable, so should he be executed?

As I said earlier, you are still physically healthy even after losing all your money whether it be to a hacking criminal or to a terrible gambling addiction.

Maybe not mentally; but physically.

Personally I believe the death penalty should only apply to the most serious crimes such as rape+murder and crimes against humanity, maybe that is what you were missing.

But I could feel just as much resentment to someone who robbed me of my life savings than someone who killed my friend. If victim resentment over having to support someone who wronged them is the reason you support the death penalty, why doesn't it apply universally?

Because Robbing someone is nowhere near as devastating as murdering someone.

You can get financial support from your family, plus the mentioned family doesn't grieve for their OWN loss, rather they grieve for the victim (but do they really?)

I don't think you could even compare a large financial loss to a murder, it's wrong to do so.

As I said earlier, I can not stress enough;

If you lose all your money, your OK

If you die, you die.

THAT'S why you can't compare the two in the end.

 

 

Let's just say someone breaks a bottle over my head and scars me permanently so I'll never look presentable; a plethora of career opportunities will be closed. I'd hate them just as much as you hate Paul Denyer... yet I still have to support them while they're in jail. What's the difference?

That's where it becomes questionable, I think. I still don't really have a set opinion the death penalty and its use in cases like that, sorry to let you down on that one.

[Clem Fandango]

Because Robbing someone is nowhere near as devastating as murdering someone.

Subjective, no?

[Pyrrhic]

@finn4life

A rehabilitation program like Norway's sounds great in theory but I have the feeling it would be poorly executed in a country like Australia.

Still, if it were proven to work in our own system, or even the same as Norway's I would be willing to let it go for minor crimes, but I don't think Murderers would ever FULLY get over it. Who's to say in 10, maybe even 20 years they won't strike again?

If you've committed a crime as serious as rape+murder why should you be given another chance to live in the free world?

 

@Knife

Well that really depends in where you live, doesn't it? Not two prisons are the same and there are thousands of law/criminal systems in hundreds of different countries all around the world.

I know for a fact prisons in my country are quite decent, wouldn't go as far as saying they are even close to being up there with a small family home but it's certainly better than living on the streets.

However this could be far from the case in plenty of other countries where being homeless is much easier due to the high rates of such.

 

@melchior

No, I wouldn't say so.

There will always be emotional and mental issues/memories after a robbery/large financial loss,some people hold it with them for the rest of their lives.

But then, if it were that bad, why not suicide and join the very people who you say (or imply) are better off in heaven, hell, or wherever we go once were off the face of the planet?

People do, yes. But I wouldn't say this is inflicted by the criminal directly, it's a matter if how the victim handles the situation at hand.

[Finn 7 five 11]

Because Robbing someone is nowhere near as devastating as murdering someone.

Subjective, no?

It is entirely subjective, I would argue that some people would be far more upset if they were robbed of all their money than if their mother died.

 

@Lzw3, meh okay, You can have your opinion on sentences, that is reasonable enough I guess, But I still disagree on the Death Penalty thing.

[lil weasel]

Lost money is much more devastating than a lost life.

Life after death (reincarnation) exists, which is why Execution isn't more than removing a tumor.

Money lost is lost forever.

[Pyrrhic]

 

Lost money is much more devastating than a lost life.

Life after death (reincarnation) exists, which is why Execution isn't more than removing a tumor.

Money lost is lost forever.

I don't think that's exactly the reason most people would take that side.

Guess you're lucky you're on your way out then

 

@finn4life's first paragraph

I was actually referring to financial loser as opposed to loss of own life rather than a loved one's life

Edited April 19, 2013 by lzw3

[Tracksuit Hitman]

I suppose it depends. If somebody has serial killed a large number of people and has no mental disability or illness and simply killed out of rag and without motive then of-course they should be executed. However if somebody had a strong motive or the murderer had a mental disability or illness which drove them into killing then they should be given help and in some cases, yes, a life sentence.

[sivispacem]

Lost money is much more devastating than a lost life.

Life after death (reincarnation) exists, which is why Execution isn't more than removing a tumor.

Money lost is lost forever.

Right. You believe in reincarnation, so that makes it okay to effectively rubber stamp state sponsored mass murder. Has it ever occurred to you that your moral code might be slightly skewed?

[lil weasel]

You believe in reincarnation, so that makes it okay to effectively rubber stamp state sponsored mass murder.

Has it ever occurred to you that your moral code might be slightly skewed?

Yes.

Yes. Have you?

 

[Pyrrhic]

So will we have everlasting lil weasel on these forums?

If you get reincarnated do you remember your passwords to Internet forums?

[sivispacem]

You believe in reincarnation, so that makes it okay to effectively rubber stamp state sponsored mass murder.

Has it ever occurred to you that your moral code might be slightly skewed?

Yes.

Yes. Have you?

Right. Because the opinion of someone who validated mass murder with his own spiritual belief about my moral introspection is worth it's weight in gold.

 

Anyone else see a similarity with terrorist motivations and Weasel's?

[Secura]

Lost money is much more devastating than a lost life.

Life after death (reincarnation) exists, which is why Execution isn't more than removing a tumor.

Money lost is lost forever.

Have you ever thought about getting psychiatric help, from what I've read you might be in need of it.

[lil weasel]

Have you ever thought about getting psychiatric help, from what I've read you might be in need of it.

Sad to see you don't understand the situation.

They are of no help in getting Convicted Criminals Executed, because they too make money off of live 'criminal minds'. Execute their 'pet projects' and they lose their income.

Seems everyone who commits a crime is 'Mentally Ill" and "has had a suffering childhood because of society so they are not to blame for what they do".

Boo Hoo, wipe the blood from your bleeding heart off of your sleeve.

Spend some time thinking about the situation, and while your at it get a brace for your 'knee-jerk".

 

[sivispacem]

 

Sad to see you don't understand the situation.

Even sadder to see you pretending you do.

 

For once in your life you really should leave your bitterness and hostility at the door. No-one is arguing against the concept of criminal responsibility or accountability. We are all just horrified and disgusted by your flippant attitude towards life . The fact that you value a few bucks more a year in your back pocket as a reasonable price to pay for the arbitrary execution of hundreds of innocent people because you seem completely aware of how imperfect a science criminology actually is is a sad indictment of your morality and opinions.

[Dick Valor]

 

In the US of A, we execute people, to show others, that killing someone is wrong. The logic in this is absent.

You're right that the logic in this is absent, but your reasoning is flawed as well. The point of the death penalty isn't to show others than killing someone is wrong. The point is to discourage prospective murderers from committing similarly heinous acts. The death penalty isn't about a lesson in ethics... it's meant to be a practical deterrent.

 

 

Giving someone life in prison, in my opinion, is the worst thing you can do to a person.

This is far from true. Prisoners enjoy a great deal of luxeries they have smuggled in, including cell phones, drugs, and cigarettes. Also, the state provides them with books, food, and even television.... luxeries their victims were never afforded. Certainly, no one wants to go to prison, but there is a reason prisoners become institutionalized... it isn't an effective punishment or deterrent. To make matters worse, many prisoners take advantage of their new lease on life to harass their victim's families with letters and phone calls, and even put out hits on people on the outside. So, those who elude the death penalty often still pose a danger to others.

 

 

Death is setting them free, it's the easy way out.

Hardly. If the murderer feels remorse and is wracked with guilt, then yes, it is the easy way out. But most murderers on death row are guilty of premeditated, first degree murder. Such a person typically lacks empathy or compassion and is most likely narcissistic and selfish. A narcissistic, self-absorbed personality is going to sweat balls and truly suffer in anticipation of their fate the way their victims did when they were brutally murdered. It's a fitting end and a punishment that doesn't dishonor the memory of those we've lost.

 

Tl;dr: I am in support of the death penalty. Watch some Investigation Discovery and you'll quickly see that some people deserve to die. This doesn't mean the system is flawless and couldn't stand some reform. Obviously, the appeals process needs to be quicker and less expensive. Also, there should not be a shred of doubt that criminals on death row did in fact commit the crimes of which they were accused.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Dick Valor

[lucid121]

I really don't get it.If I got 450 years in prison,why should I continue living?Theres no point,I rather die knowing my an*s was like this (),then this ( ).You going to get killed anyway.Why should I live a horrible life when I can end it?

[crispypistonx8]

Because people are attached to there POS criminal relatives, who shouldn't have been born to begin with.

[EgyptianStar]

 

Lost money is much more devastating than a lost life.

Life after death (reincarnation) exists, which is why Execution isn't more than removing a tumor.

Money lost is lost forever.

I would highly recommend learning about our Justice System. The Constitution and the Court System is meant to protect the accused from being Killed by a ranging mob. If you had your way anyone accused of murder would be chased by a crowd wielding pitchforks and lynched on the spot. Compared to our Justice System where if one court gives the presumed wrong judgement an appeal may be "requested " doesn't mean its gonna be granted but a higher court will look at the evidence and determine if the lower court might have misjudged key parts in the trial. The appeal system was created to further protect the accused or anyone who feels they have been wronged by a court.

 

How is your belief in reincarnation gonna supersede our Justice System. Sorry not all of us believe in reincarnation. I believe in our Justice system and Constitution to stop us from being destroyed by those who object to our individual beliefs.

Edited April 20, 2013 by EgyptianStar

[lucid121]

Because people are attached to there POS criminal relatives, who shouldn't have been born to begin with.

What is pos?

[I<3GTAV]

How about instead of the death penalty, we replace it with a torture room? Probably too much tax money though... The death penalty seems like a way to escape, but some people absolutely deserve more than just life in prison. I would say keep it legal.

[Chukkles]

 

Because people are attached to there POS criminal relatives, who shouldn't have been born to begin with.

What is pos?

Piece of sh*t.

 

 

Anyway, the best way to suffer is to be locked away (alive) with no true freedom.

[Finn 7 five 11]

In the US of A, we execute people, to show others, that killing someone is wrong. The logic in this is absent.

You're right that the logic in this is absent, but your reasoning is flawed as well. The point of the death penalty isn't to show others than killing someone is wrong. The point is to discourage prospective murderers from committing similarly heinous acts. The death penalty isn't about a lesson in ethics... it's meant to be a practical deterrent.

 

Yet it doesn't stop people from heinous crimes. People who do these things have little regard for the consequences at all when they do it.

 

Increasing prison sentences or adding torture before death or whatever is not going to lower rates of heinous crimes. Laws do prevent people from doing things, but only to a point, after that increasing severity has no effect because the people that are stupid enough/insane enough to completely ignore the consequences are going to ignore them regardless of what they are.

 

And yeah, I repeated myself in the same paragraph haha.

[lil weasel]

Religious belief is the prime driver of a Death Penalty or NO Death Penalty law, that is not an application of logic. Which is why the U.S. Constitution separates Church from State. Yes, we do still have church dogma in some laws.

• As a deterrent to crime a Death Penalty doesn't work.

Many crimes leading to a capital crime are done in the heat of the moment, or with the thought that "I won't get caught".

• Society as Mob Rule is supposed to be suppressed.

• The letter of law over the mass hysteria of vengeance is supposed to RULE.

• We do our law by 'Due Process'.

• It may take years to gather the evidence that 'proves' the guilt of the person(s) presented at arraignment as the perpetrator(s) of the crime.

• We give the information of proof to the Defense Counsel so they may present a decent rebuttal to that proof.

• We select a Jury, searching for and dismissing bias.

• We present the Accused before that Jury in Court.

• After presenting the evidence, as allowed by Law, to the Jury with testimony, as may be allowed by Law, the Jury in secrecy decides the fate of the case.

• The Jury is trusted to accept the consideration of the evidence and testimony in a Capital Case to the point of No Reasonable Doubt before Conviction.

• When convicted the trial automatically goes to Judicial review.

• When the conviction is upheld the Appeals wheel starts to turn.

• Review, again, of the judicial conduct by the Prosecutor, was there any misconduct?

• Review, again, of the evidence and possible tampering.

• Review, again, of the testimony and witness bias.

• Review, again, of the Jury bias or tampering.

• Review, again, of compelling ‘new’ evidence.

• Review, again, of compelling ‘new’ testimony or recanting of same.

• How long should this take? Forever?

• How long can these reviews be repeated with the same results.

• This is why “it is more expensive to keep a person on death row”.

 

When the review process starts to become a ‘rehash’ of what has already been done in the favour of the ‘Convicted’ person through the three layers of court review it should stop.

 

The basic idea that Hundreds of Innocent people are in jail for a Capital Crime is not supporting of the Legal System, nor Due Process of law. Such statements are invalid.

This kind of thinking leads to the next logical step: After conviction let them Free. Since most people won’t commit the crime again why lock them up?

Even when truly innocent people are acquitted they still carry the stigma of guilt.

 

Capital punishment as an answer to crime is only that it prevents Recidivism.

 

 

[Acehilm]

I believe in the death sentence.

 

I've heard they are making a new jail system for people they think are going to commit an offence, to be put into it. I think that's a little odd. *Puts on tin foil hat*

[Zugzwang]

I'd rather die than live my life in jail, but why should anyone get a life sentence in the first place? It widens a countries sustainability gap for one thing, and shouldn't we be doing everything we can to avoid a cost that does nothing for economic growth? Furthermore prison (or jail) has no rehabilitative benefit, so if we're keeping them in there for punishment the question comes down to how much should we deal? Norway has decided on this; the maximum penalty for murder there is 21 years. Personally I think even that's excessive but these life sentences are ludicrous. People don't know the harm they do.

[lil weasel]

 

I really don't get it. <space>If I got 450 years in prison,why should I continue living?<space> There s no point,<space> I rather die knowing my an*s was like this (), <space> then this (  ). <space> You going to get killed anyway. <space> Why should I live a horrible life when I can end it?

Only because it Is the law of the land.

Repeal it if can get the votes.

But, look on the bright side. With the Homeland Security and the Terrorist Laws I'm sure it won't be long before many minor crimes rise to the Terrorist level. Then of to Guantanamo and a forgettable death 'by accident'.

And all too many people think torture in prison is Ok.

 

A space goes after most punctuation.

[lil weasel]

It might be time to bring back Transportation for those convicted and sentenced to Life without parole and Death.

 

Clear Midway Island and build a prison (housing) there.

No Guards, except navy/coast guard patrols at sea to keep people away.

Then Air Drop food and water.

That should keep everybody happy. Until the Moon prison can be built.

 

[Clem Fandango]

Thank god Norway has given us a paragon of humane means of dealing with criminals; now we can point to them and show people how barbaric our "justice" system is.

[Zugzwang]

Thank god Norway has given us a paragon of humane means of dealing with criminals; now we can point to them and show people how barbaric our "justice" system is.

The fact that Norway has implemented such a policy is evidence that a civilized country can reasonably do so. It shows how there is a precedent for abolishing life sentences.