The Writers' Room

[Eminence]

RE music. I think you're looking into my comment too much, Tyler. I'm not looking to set up entire playlists. It's one scene, that's heavily featuring one song. Other songs will be mentioned but only very, very breifly:

 

 

Bob sat listening to "Call on me", nodding his head in rhythm to the song.

 

Perfect example. What does namedropping the song add to the story? Do you lose anything if you just say "Bob nodded his head in rhythm to the radio"?

Edited November 12, 2013 by Eminence

[Mokrie Dela]

Whoa 90k words in one part, that's awesome

Really? I thought it was pretty short - not much has happened yet! haha

It is still unedited of course. That 90 could drop to 40 or go up to 100, i don't know yet

 

 

RE music. I think you're looking into my comment too much, Tyler. I'm not looking to set up entire playlists. It's one scene, that's heavily featuring one song. Other songs will be mentioned but only very, very breifly:

 

 

Bob sat listening to "Call on me", nodding his head in rhythm to the song.

 

Perfect example. What does namedropping the song add to the story? Do you lose anything if you just say "Bob nodded his head in rhythm to the radio"?

 

Hmmm. Yeah, I can't argue with that. However, In the example i cited, I don't think it'd ruin the story if you didn't know the song. It's a detail that, if you know the song, would add to the atmosphere, but if you didn't i can't see anyone dwelling on it and you wouldn't lose anything either way tbh

 

I read the chapter to a friend and he said he thought it worked. Time and edits will tell where it leads, however. I may decide it doesn't work, or i may stick with it.

 

[Vercetti42]

Thanks for the feedback Mokrie and VP.

 

Finished outlining the plot for the story, I've decided to title it 'Conviction' also outlined all the characters. I've given most of my characters a signature ability (ex: Cunning, good with computers, ruthless etc), here is the plot:

 

 

 

The story is about a terrible terrorist faction which has declared war on the whole world. It's origin, leader and members are unknown. It only reveals itself as 'The Mob'. With the UN completely foxed, attacks begin in Afghanista. A secret agency called 'Conviction' however is the only force offering a resistance as the others are completely baffled by the group and have no idea where to begin. Conviction is just as secretive as 'The Mob'. Apart from the erupting war in Afghanistan , bombings and assassinations are talking place all around the world. It's a secret agency vs a secret agency, who will win?

[Loch Dawg]

@Mokrie: is your intention by mentioning a specific song in your story to try and get the reader to adopt the kind of the emotion the song projects from them while they read your passage? Or is it just to simply mention the song?

[Mokrie Dela]

In the first instance, the song is playing on the radio, and the character hears it and reacts. They've never heard such music before, so it's a "wow" moment. It's also an old song, and quite a soft, emotional kind of song, and it really touches a nerve with them. It serves as a sort of frame for a flashback or thought process.

Other songs will be mentioned fleetingly for atmospheric effect (though not knowing the song won't impede the story)

[Tyler]

I think the first example is an all right use of songs but like you said yourself, the second example doesn't lose anything by not being there because it doesn't impede the story in any way to begin with. With writing (in my opinion) it's best to cut the fat like that right away.

 

 

Also, writing about time travel is both fun and awful. I can't decide how I'd like the laws to work out in a plausible way, and I can't really say what I want to do with it. I just know that I want to use it to bridge large spaces of time together in a small amount of time.

[Typhus]

Writing about child abuse is so f*cking hard.

I know I have to channel my own experiences into the story, but there's no catharsis. It just makes me sad, and kind of floors me for the whole day. All today I've been in this foul mood, because of stuff I know I've got to write, even though it really pains me to do it.

Artistically, I think it's good stuff, it's true to the character I've created, but to do something worthwhile has involved dredging up a lot of ghosts I'm still being visited by from time to time.

[MacAshford]

Well, I've discovered something that has helped me and might help you guys. I usually just end up giving up on projects because of both boredom and writers block but now I've found a way that helps me to stick to things. Instead of thinking of dozens of project ideas that might be better than the one that I'm working on, I merge them into the ones that I'm working on and the ones that I can't merge I just write up in a short story (like 3k words). I'm upto writing my 7th mission now which is sort of a record. I think I'll post the merged project once I get to around 20 missions to make sure that I can use the method and stick to this.

 

But seriously, writing short stories instead of scrapping and beginning huge new projects is much easier and because it's short there is no waffling on trying to make it longer. I'd recommend the short story method to everyone:)

[Mokrie Dela]

Writing about child abuse is so f*cking hard.

I know I have to channel my own experiences into the story, but there's no catharsis. It just makes me sad, and kind of floors me for the whole day. All today I've been in this foul mood, because of stuff I know I've got to write, even though it really pains me to do it.

Artistically, I think it's good stuff, it's true to the character I've created, but to do something worthwhile has involved dredging up a lot of ghosts I'm still being visited by from time to time.

I know it's cliched but listen to "Down with the Sickness" by Disturbed - which is about child abuse iirc. I know of a few other songs too, but not off the top of my head. you can get a good feel and maybe that would help?

 

Also, writing about time travel is both fun and awful. I can't decide how I'd like the laws to work out in a plausible way, and I can't really say what I want to do with it. I just know that I want to use it to bridge large spaces of time together in a small amount of time.

I watched a thing tonight with Prof. Brian Cox examining Doctor Who. Check it out, because he explains things, especially when talking about how you can't go back in time because you can't travel faster than the speed of light...

Doctor who, it seems, did something very clever regarding a black hole...

 

Well, I've discovered something that has helped me and might help you guys. I usually just end up giving up on projects because of both boredom and writers block but now I've found a way that helps me to stick to things. Instead of thinking of dozens of project ideas that might be better than the one that I'm working on, I merge them into the ones that I'm working on and the ones that I can't merge I just write up in a short story (like 3k words). I'm upto writing my 7th mission now which is sort of a record. I think I'll post the merged project once I get to around 20 missions to make sure that I can use the method and stick to this.

 

But seriously, writing short stories instead of scrapping and beginning huge new projects is much easier and because it's short there is no waffling on trying to make it longer. I'd recommend the short story method to everyone:)

Short stories are great! This is why i am always telling people to go into one shots!

[Vercetti42]

No feedback on my novel's plot, yo'?

[albanyave]

Waiting for your new work Mokrie. How many parts have you planned?

 

I understand now how you are going to use the music. I don't think that I will need to know the song if you are showing the reader how that particular song evokes a feeling from your character.

[Mokrie Dela]

I plan to do this:

The music included will be hyperlinked in. It's 2013, and it's an internet based story, so a little multimedia isn't a bad thing in my eyes. That way the song can be listened to as you read. All optional of course, and every effort will be made to make my writing say what it needs to. Think of it as Augmented Fiction haha.

 

So far there are four major parts (excluding the 'logues):

Their names atm:
(Prologue)
Origin
Exile
Divergence
Amalgamation
(Epilogue)

 

I'm still trying to find a good title for the overall work. Em pointed out "Duality" is a bit crap (ok he didnt say crap, but tbh it isn't great)
Titles aren't my strong point, COL and JIF the only exceptions imo.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Mokrie Dela

[Eminence]

I plan to do this:

 

The music included will be hyperlinked in. It's 2013, and it's an internet based story, so a little multimedia isn't a bad thing in my eyes. That way the song can be listened to as you read. All optional of course, and every effort will be made to make my writing say what it needs to. Think of it as Augmented Fiction haha.

 

 

Oh man. I'm not even going to touch that. You know what I'm going to say.

[Tyler]

No feedback on my novel's plot, yo'?

 

Write it first, then we can give you feedback on the actual story. If you wanted me to critique your summary...

 

 

 

The story is about a terrible terrorist faction which has declared war on the whole world. It's origin, leader and members are unknown. It only reveals itself as 'The Mob'. With the UN completely foxed, attacks begin in Afghanista. A secret agency called 'Conviction' however is the only force offering a resistance as the others are completely baffled by the group and have no idea where to begin. Conviction is just as secretive as 'The Mob'. Apart from the erupting war in Afghanistan , bombings and assassinations are talking place all around the world. It's a secret agency vs a secret agency, who will win?

 

 

The word, "terrible" is unnecessary to describe a terrorist cell declaring war. How is an entire cell of agents managed to eliminate their entire global fingerprint? Why are they calling themselves something so lame and full of baggage that is undoubtedly unnecessary for their plans, especially if they're considering themselves above common criminals? Why are they attacking Afghanistan first? Is it because they're based around the area? Are they involved in middle eastern politics?

 

Why are they declaring war on the entire world and why does anyone take such a ludicrous concept seriously? What leverage does a small group of ghosted men have to make the world's governments cower in fear? How does no one know what to do? Why don't they start by going to the site of the attacks and investigating the weaponry used there? Someone, somewhere, left a cartridge, a magazine, a shell casing, a hair, a blood sample, a camera sighting, a witness account... Something. It is not believable that nothing at all would be left behind and that the entire world would not know how to investigate a terrorist attack in the 21st century.

 

All the same questions apply to the Conviction group. As well as that, how are so many world leaders being attacked and killed simultaneously and in synchronized fashion? Is, 'The Mob' such a global force to be reckoned with? How, if they're that size, do they not have ONE SINGLE PERSON that can be identified? In the 21st century, nonetheless.

 

Anyway, I don't think the idea of the story is necessarily bad. These are just questions you need to address for the reader, and perhaps think about yourself. In terms of the assassinations and the like, it'd be very interesting to go into detail about how they are all synchronized. Or not. It's your choice, really. I just think if you're going to do something like this you should flesh out the more technical aspects of the story. Especially since it's sounding a lot like it's inspired by Splinter Cell, which is based off the themes of Tom Clancy novels, which are stories that often ride the line of jargon-filled technical handbook on military operations, and Hollywood level Cold War action hero stories. You need to straddle that line yourself if you wish to emulate the man and his derivatives, and that's not the easiest route in fiction.

[Mokrie Dela]

 

I plan to do this:

 

The music included will be hyperlinked in. It's 2013, and it's an internet based story, so a little multimedia isn't a bad thing in my eyes. That way the song can be listened to as you read. All optional of course, and every effort will be made to make my writing say what it needs to. Think of it as Augmented Fiction haha.

 

 

Oh man. I'm not even going to touch that. You know what I'm going to say.

 

TBH, from the off, i know you wouldn't

[AceRay]

Also, writing about time travel is both fun and awful. I can't decide how I'd like the laws to work out in a plausible way, and I can't really say what I want to do with it. I just know that I want to use it to bridge large spaces of time together in a small amount of time.

Don't do that bullsh*t thing where people travel through time and yet there's still a sense of urgency, like in Sonic 2006 where Sonic and Tails go to the future and are like "We have to get back RIGHT NOW" and were racing through the streets, even though there was no need to, that sort of stuff sucks. Think of when Marty sets the Deloreon back ten minutes in BTTF, he knows he's got all the time in the world and uses it to solve the problem.

 

I know it's cliched but listen to "Down with the Sickness" by Disturbed

OPEN UP YOUR HATE AND LET IT FLOW INTO ME.

 

RE music: namedropping songs can be a bit of a double edged sword. On one hand, I guess it makes the environments more authentistic and real but then you can alienate audiences who don't listen to that music and won't know the song immediately. I was reading a Harlan Coben novel (The Woods) last week and I got the feeling that he kept writing in Bruce Springsteen songs into the story because Bruce is an admitted fan of his writing.

Don't read The Woods btw, its was just written so Coben could cash a pay check, the characters are little more than names on a page, plot is vapid uninspired and I'm not sure what the main theme was supposed to be; "Opening up old wounds of the past only causes pain" seems to be what its going for but the ending kind of negates that as the protag's life is probably happier overall. Its one of those books where it has a really good hook at the beginning and rides off of that for the rest of the novel.

Edited November 17, 2013 by AceRay

[Acehilm]

I don't feel like I can write Peasant Blurs anymore. I've been trying to write up the latest chapter of it but still can't get it right. I feel like I've worked on this too long, and the characters are too bland and I can't change them. I can't explain it. Think of it as a messy canvas, and every time I try to add something original to this canvas, it just looks the same as every other line or scribble on the canvas.

[Vercetti42]

@Tyler: Glad you pointed those out. Because it gave me an insanely good concept about the terrorist faction when I said good it's really good. It has answers to all your questions, the thing is I'd love to share it here but I really do not want to spoil it for anyone but it is insanely good in my opinion, if executed right it could be great.

 

Also, I just realized that one of the Tom Clancy books was titled 'Splinter Cell: Conviction' whoops.

[Mokrie Dela]

Also, I just realized that one of the Tom Clancy books was titled 'Splinter Cell: Conviction' whoops.

Not a brilliant book, tbh, but then none of the SC books can be called "brilliant", though i really like the first two, probably because they're written in first person!

[Vercetti42]

Yeah another thing my story isn't exactly first-person. It's just a modern war story.

[Mokrie Dela]

Yeah another thing my story isn't exactly first-person. It's just a modern war story.

That doesn't matter at all. Whatever viewpoint you choose is up to you!

 

You say "modern war" and i think of "Ghost Recon."

[Ziggy455]

I've been maintaining radio silence for some time. Thought I'd pop in and give an update. Just finished my first draft of twenty-five thousand words. Gonna leave it for a few days and then dig in to real work of editing it to how I want it. I'll probably throw it up here.

 

It's the first of three connected short stories within a small MidWest town called West Haven. I'm thinking of the next story to be a sort of a dark comedy or perhaps a modern-noir one. The last one I was toying around with a much more demented idea which sort of brings West Haven's notable inhabitants full circle, but it's just thoughts and ideas right now.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Ziggy455

[Mokrie Dela]

I tried writing a comedy, and failed hard at it. It was a parody, but all i managed was to rip off Airplane and Naked Gun etc. If you've managed to do so, then power to you, Ziggs. I find it really difficult. I just can't do it.

 

DP-avoiding edit:

Do you guys ever daydream? Was watching children in need with the misses tonight and got bored so started daydreaming about me and a mate taking part in a local concert, where we did our own "Drum and Bass" tune.

By drum and bass, i mean literally.
Like this:

or this:

 

Edited November 20, 2013 by Mokrie Dela

[Acehilm]

Anyone read any of Mathew Riley novels?

[Mokrie Dela]

Anyone read any of Mathew Riley novels?

I'm not aware of his name, so Probably not. There has been novels i've read that i can't remember the title and /or author though

 

 

I got a question. How do you portray a sense of loneliness in stories? Say a character is wandering though... i dunno, the mountains, and he's on his own. There's no "events". Nothing other than walking. There's not any conversation. How would you get that feeling down on page? I've found myself listing things, risking telling instead of showing, and maybe i've written my lot for today, but i just cant think!

[Abel.]

 

Anyone read any of Mathew Riley novels?

I'm not aware of his name, so Probably not. There has been novels i've read that i can't remember the title and /or author though

 

 

I got a question. How do you portray a sense of loneliness in stories? Say a character is wandering though... i dunno, the mountains, and he's on his own. There's no "events". Nothing other than walking. There's not any conversation. How would you get that feeling down on page? I've found myself listing things, risking telling instead of showing, and maybe i've written my lot for today, but i just cant think!

 

 

Well imagery could be your key. Such a place would be silent, so he'd hear things to which he'd be deaf were he talking to someone else--the snap of a branch underfoot, the scurry of a squirrel in a tree, the solemn whisper in the trees, or simply the monotonous sound of his own footsteps if we're thinking of a barren mountain path.

 

 

I've had another idea for a short story, but, as per usual, writing it just isn't happening. I can come up with most of the story in my head, and come up with snippets of prose, but I'm utterly out of practice when it comes to writing prose. This is all I have so far, so it doesn't warrant its own topic:

 

The Changing of the Seasons

Keter inhaled the crisp morning air. Of a morning the boy would steal away to a field about a half mile from his home and sit beneath an oak tree. Aged was the tree, and it had grown stubborn, for it clung to its leaves whilst lesser trees yielded to winter's embrace. It was late autumn, and soon the cold would come. A few red leaves of other trees littered the ground. Red like sunset. Red like autumn's blood, for now autumn was in its death throes. The leaves of the oak tree still remained, though red and orange now where they had been an earthy green. The oak leaves rustled in the wind, defiant, but Keter knew it would not be long before winter stripped the oak bear. The sun was tentatively rising as Keter lazed beneath the rustling leaves, and it painted the field and rustic houses beyond brightly. As if the Shtetl were wrought of gold, thought Keter jokingly. Musings often came to him at this time, for beneath the tree in the morning air there was little to cloud his mind. The air was bracing but soon grew cold; a sudden wind nipped at Keter through his garb. Soon the wind brought rain, an impetus for Keter to leave his world of youthful introspection and return to the workaday town which his people had made home. Through the dense rye grass he ran...

...and there it ends. A lot of the imagery is meaningless without the rest of the story and I can tell that the prose is clunky. If I can sort out the issues with this early section, I might give writing the whole thing a go. I think I'll have to write a few synopses for these bloody things should I ever find the peace of mind, and acquire the skill, to actually finish them, because I had an idea for a very different piece related to this one. This piece is about an Ashenkazi Stehtl (Yiddish corruption of Städtel, low German for town) during the dark days of pogroms and the expulsion of Jews from eastern Europe. The history of it isn't what I'm going for here, but really the impression that the event had on the people suffering through the pogroms as a lot of it is overshadowed by the abominable tragedy to befall the Jews later. The other piece I had in mind involves an aged drunkard who moved to America after the destruction of the Stehtl of his youth, and the wisdom he imparts on an impressionable young Jewish lad.

[Acehilm]

How is everyone going?

 

I've taken advice from Morkie and Tyler and I'm going well with the new chapter. I just want to say thank you to you two and everybody who has given their 2 cents on it. This next chapter should be a good one once it is edited and published.

[Mokrie Dela]

I'm glad to hear you've stuck with it. Most stories have a rough patch, but it's worth sticking through it.

[universetwisters]

I gotta warn you guys of someone by the name of "Black & White". He sent me a PM about an hour ago saying that he's writing a book about his life and says he uses too many "I did...I went...etc". A few messages later, he's trying to convince me to write is book for him:

 

 

No, I don't like it. Can you help me or not?

If I send you a draft of my book, can you work on it? Before I do, it is extremely vital that you do NOT tell anyone about the book. Do you promise?

 

And then I straight up asked "Are you trying to get me to write your biography for you?" Then he went silent.

 

 

Just letting you guys know if he tries the same trick with you. He said he found out about me from this subforum, so he might try to find you guys.

[Mokrie Dela]

Pffft, someone turns to someone on internet to write something for them... i wouldn't give it too much thought.

My advice is always the same. Come to the WD, get advice and guidance, and write it yourself.

If i wanted anyone to write something for me, or whatever, there's like 3 people here that i'd ask. (in reality i'd ask advice). Writing is about the sense of accomplishment. I hate the lazy f*cks that ask people to write it for them, when it's obvious theyre gonna claim it anyway, so tbh i usually ignore them