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Eminence

The Writers' Room

Recommended Posts

D4 Damager

Nerner/Josh/Josh?/D4 Damager: You speak Russian? Impressive mate. Good insights on Nadsat there, too--interestingly enough, Nadsat definitely made me feel less able to consider Alex a sociopath as his use of Nadsat almost seemed childlike to me. I found it clever how the use of Nadsat was toned down as he matured--I can barely remember him using it during the infamous "final chapter" exclusive to the UK version. A lot of the symbolism is probably lost on me though (I'm not a humanities specialist).

 

I think it's admirable that the Russian translators tried to replicate Nadsat for the Russian version, but like you say, I can't see how it would work at all.

Aha cheers :) I picked up quite a bit over a few months travelling in the former-Soviet states and I'm now studying it around work, as I'm starting uni next year.

 

As you say, the use of the word forces you to really think about meanings which places a barrier between your feelings and the actions because you just don't have visceral reactions to foreign words. Compare "tolchocking a starry vetch" to "punching an old man".

 

And the lack of nadsat later on is probably supposed to represent his organic personal growth following the meeting with Pete, as after undergoing the Ludovico Treatment he still uses Nadsat -- signifying the government treatment's failure to truly change his nature.

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The Leviathan

Has anybody read King's "Doctor Sleep" (the sequel to "The Shining") yet? I am loving it so far!

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Tycek

Oh, look it that this time of year again?

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Mokrie Dela

Oh, look it that this time of year again?

Christmas?

 

Or, if you're talking about what i think you are, then play these two lines of lyrics in your head:

Edited by Mokrie Dela

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Ziggy455

 

QUOTE (Ziggy455 @ Sunday, Apr 14 2013, 01:57)

A nice little piece, very descriptive. Actually. It's all prose and no dialogue. Some stories like that are very neat. I like it.

That's the thing, when I right a story, I see an image in my head and I like to write about and describe these images in detail, but when it gets to dialogue I often mess up, mainly because I start to lose interest.

 

 

Some writers have written such large fables with there being rarely any sort of dialogue. It's like different rounds of the same gun. If you use all of them, they work better together. When I see an image, I try to convey the dialogue, the setting, the atmosphere, and the general movement of the scene. I normally end up with 60% dialogue and 40% description, action, details, and punctuation.

 

Of course, it depends on your style. Some have pages choc-a-bloc with dialogue while others show a vast blank expanse of dialogue in favour of description.

Edited by Ziggy455

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Mokrie Dela

Hahaha oh this is priceless

He's going to arts on and in and in and neither me nor ziggs will ever see it

 

There is a god after all!

 

Anyway I'm making progress with the road

Although my 'differences' with it are still an obstacle in beginning to see the story and setting and beginning to enjoy it

I still disagree with the formatting and the dialogue appears to me as poor (yeah, bite me, I have an opinion) and the characters flat (although that could change or be intentional or a product of my incompetence as a reader) I'm definitely getting that lost, dead world vibe where all is lost, and finding myself wantit to know where te story is going to take me

It's different and yeah I've had trouble with it and I don't think I'll accept te things I've mentioned but I'm starting to see through that, almost ignoring the formatting and styling and seeing the story instead, almost like my mind is translating it

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AceRay

Writer's Room should be renamed Mokrie Reads The Road.

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arch stanton

I'm about to read a novel that I think is by the same person who wrote 'The Road'. Cormac, isn't that the name of the author? I am starting to put together the next chapter of Peasant Blurs but it may take a while before I post it out. The latest chapter of it is up by the way.

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Mokrie Dela

I'm about to read a novel that I think is by the same person who wrote 'The Road'. Cormac, isn't that the name of the author? I am starting to put together the next chapter of Peasant Blurs but it may take a while before I post it out. The latest chapter of it is up by the way.

McCarthy, that's him.

 

Writer's Room should be renamed Mokrie Reads The Road.

Hey, this is a very dramatic subject! Never before has any one read a book like I have!

I know i said i wouldnt mention it, but i thought some would be pleased that i was starting to get on with it!

 

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arch stanton

I'm starting to read "Blood Meridian or the evening redness in the west" by McCarty. Morkie, is it just me or the dialogue is just a flow of words. You have no real indication on the speaker to begin with. His descriptions are way his pros rather than his dialogue. Great book so far.

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Tycek

Oh, great. Now that Mokrie became a led-by here, we will have to listen even more about The Road and the way he reads it. :sarcasm:

 

Just kidding, congrats on the promotion.

Edited by Tycek

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Mokrie Dela

Damn write you will

I'm renaming this section MOKRIE READS THE ROAD, and you'll have to put up with terrible puns too.

 

I don't see it as a promotion btw; merely an extra layer of responsibility. I can't see me having much to do at all tbh - rather be a led by here than in th V section.

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AceRay

Leading WD must be like being a traffic control officer who looks over a road which has six drivers go through it a couple of times a week who all get along and there are never any accidents ever, except for the occaisional hooligan in a beat up Honda Civic screaming for attention, and that one time a very self gratifying car came into town and sent all the other cars messages to vote for his car to be the best car on the road and all the other drivers were really mad and spent a year tooting their horns about it this is where the metaphore breaks down a little.

 

 

Oh, great. Now that Mokrie became a led-by here, we will have to listen even more about The Road and the way he reads it. :sarcasm:

Would he read it on a boat

Would he read it with a goat?
Would he read it in the rain?

Would he read it on a train?
What about the dark! What about a tree!
What about a car! You let him be!
Would he read it in a box?
Would he read it with a fox?
Would he read it in a house?
Would he not read it with a mouse?
He does not read it here or there.
He does not read it ANYWHERE!

Edited by AceRay

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Mokrie Dela

That's it Aceray, you're banned..

 

 

:D

 

I gotta hand it to you, that made me laugh. If one can not laugh at themselves.... well...

 

 

Anyway, put it this way; i'd rather be a co-led-by here, and deal with one report a year than in the V section and deal with the sheer volume of sh*t to shovel.

 

I did actually get an offer of moderating (leading) the V section, but i strongly suspect i'm still too green for that task ;)

And don't worry Ya'll, I won't do a Demarest... :)

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Vercetti42

Congrats Mokrie.

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arch stanton

Morkie4lyf brah.

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Ziggy455

Mokrie got promoted? Sweet! Good to see WD's getting it's common sense back.

 

I'm currently reading John Dies At The End. It's a pretty funny book, and considering it's got quite a gripping story mixed with humor, I'm loving it so far. Apparently there's a sequel entitled 'This Book Is Full Of Spiders' which I'll head onto next.

 

Writing-wise, I'm just jotting notes down. Work has my attention six days a week. I have no free time anymore!

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Typhus

I've finished my second novel and am starting on my third. It's been a wild, wonderful journey, and I just want to keep writing these characters forever.

I really think people might like what I've created. One can hope, at least.

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Mokrie Dela

That's the trouble with work ziggy. Even when you do get time you're often tired.

I kind I'm writing little scraps here and there, and that's not good enough really

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MacAshford

Congrats Mokrie and also merry Christmas everyone :)

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Mokrie Dela

Merry Christmas Y'all.

This time of year has brought me a question: in a post apocalyptic world, would Christmas and Easter (and any non-christian festivals) be celebrated?
Would such religions and faiths persevere, or would a cataclysmic war also destroy established faiths and churches.

I'd like to think the basic sentiments of goodwill would survive...

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Tyler

War no matter how apocalyptic is not a singularity. Culture will pass through, even if it's warped and completely different from the starting point. Every generation passes on their ideas about the world, and every generation interprets the past in a new way. Religion would undoubtedly evolve just as we do after war, but I doubt it would disappear completely.

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Vercetti42

Merry Xmas guys.

 

@Mok: Are you going to use Christmas in your Fallout fanfic? :p

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Mokrie Dela

I'm thinking of it. As Tyler said, it won't be the same as we know it. I doubt there'd be a huge festival of presents and feasting meals, but perhaps the togetherness and original ideals might survive. I'm trying to take a more... hopeful approach to it.

 

The two main characters are representations of contrasting aspects of the human psyche, but also of my own character, and i think the events and the world is going to be something similar. Christmas, if i include it, would be a vessel for the hope that people feel, despite the difficulties. Like in the Victorian era, even the poor would have some Christmas celebration - much humbler, but perhaps even more meaningful. I think many people have lost that sentiment.

Edited by Mokrie Dela

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AceRay

#Fallout3KarmaHating

 

The way karma works in Fallout 3 is that it goes from -1000 at maximum evil to 1000 at maximum good. These numbers aren't seen in game but that how they work in the console controls.

 

Okay, this is the problem. You can enslave people and sell them to the slavers for 250 caps, and get -100 on your karma rating. But you can donate 100 caps to a charity and get +100 karma, negating the bad karma you got for the enslaving and giving you a profit of 150 caps with no downsides. You simply cannot deny that this is broken. That just shouldn't work. Karma in this game is just a stat you need to exploit for whatever moment. Want this companion? Just adjust your karma enough. There are no long term consequences, aside from regulators and Talon coming after you, which is more of an annoyance than anything.

And that's basically how it works for any other point where you get bad karma. There are a few points you can do something so terrible that you shouldn't really be able to just buy it away through charities, you really shouldn't be able to return to good karma. In FO2, the moment you enslave someone, you're permanently branded a slaver, whereas in FO3 its like it doesn't matter once you get your good karma back up.

 

this isn't how it worked in the original two Fallout games. In those, having good karma was actually a challenge that forced you to actually hunt down good karma points, because they were really hard to find. Karma was all about whether you take the easy road through bad karma and condemning lots of people to make it easier for yourself or if you sacrifice better weapons and having to fight tougher enemies to do the right thing. It was all about how doing the right thing and following the good path actually required effort and sacrifice, it wasn't a walk in the path, and it made playing as either karma different in each playthrough. In FO3, you can change you karma so easily through farming charities and hobos, so it becomes a joke, just another one of your stats, there isn't any meaning behind, not to mention that you get just as good stuff through. Ironically, it becomes harder to maintain an evil run because of how much the game throws good karma opportunities at you.

 

So, Mokrie, that is how the morality of your story should be; taking the evil route is easier, but it is harder to do the right thing, and the characters should have dilemmas over how to approach situations through this mean, not whether their karma level is at the right point to gain this companion.

Edited by AceRay

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Mokrie Dela

Yeah the karma in my story isn't based on a scale. It's based on that voice in your head when you find a fifty pound note in the street.

"Hand it in!"

"f*ck that, keep it!"

What would you REALLY do? You're split.

Add some of NV's scenarios, and the "good" choice isn't obvious. I wanted to create a more grey world of decisions, and show the contrast between the smart good character and the more direct, evil one. OBV this is not a game, but a story, so the karma scale will be fixed and linear. The reader can't just chuck 100 caps to the followers and become a messiah. If the guy's acts end him in sh*t, then tough for him. The girl's insistence on being good won't reward her as much though. ]

 

strangly, i've never used the charities to change my karma in FO. I've played as specific characters, so i've followed it through. Only exception was looting little lamplight as the bad guy so i could hire jericho

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AceRay

Well yeah, of course a written story is going to have a different approach to karma than a game mechanics system. But could actually imagine a film or book based on FO3's karma system? That would be like Indiana Jones just murdering a whole bunch of innocents half way through the story and then Marion is horrified and leaves him but then he gives like a few hundred bucks to a charity and buys a hobo some water and all is forgiven and that moment is never brought up again for the rest of the story. And then he does this three or four times and its fine. Because that is FO3 in nutshell.

 

Your 50 bucks thing doesn't really work, because that's just money on the street, anyone can claim it was theirs, unless the person is right there in front of you. A better example would be a handbag with money and the lady's identification inside, so you can track her down and give it to her. But she lives past the bandits and you have to fight your way through, if you just take it yourself, you avoid that fight. But then you find out she's a bank robber and its filled with diamonds. So should you give it to her or not? Its still hers, but she stole it, so should you take it?

 

I'm not saying that evil should always be easier than doing the good choice. In fact, it would really make sense for the hero, fighting a villain, to have to choose between being honourable or being pragmatic, sort of like Mass Effect. Both Renegade and Paragon Shep are heroes, just Renegade means that the ends justify the means and doing shady deals is ultimately justified to stop the reapers but Paragon always does the right thing, as if you stoop low, you're really just as bad. In FO1 and 2, doing the evil route could be interpreted as the main character ignoring the smaller issues and taking advantage of resources to stop the big threat of the Super Mutants or Enclave. Or your main character is a total bastard who wants to stop the bad guys just so he can continue to screw over everyone himself, its your choice, that's what made it so deep and replayable. In FO3, you're railroaded into helping the BoS no matter what, so you can't really have that interpreation.

 

Honestly, Beth are really good at creating immersive environments and worlds but when it comes to story and character and plot, they really suck, NV was only better because Interplay developed that one, and even that was biased against Legion.

 

EDIT: So, Mokrie, I understand your story originally had a sex scene in it? It really should have been something like these cracked examples here. I laughed when I thought of Hugo Weeving nuzzling. http://www.cracked.com/article_16554_the-5-most-baffling-sex-scenes-in-history-fanfiction.html

Why doesn't anyone post this kind of fanfiction on GTAF?

Edited by AceRay

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Mokrie Dela

Dw ace I hear you

There won't be any cheap karma farming going on in mine

 

Re sex: there is still sex, but its played down more than the first write. Originally it was a page of erotica and all it did was undermine the story and character.

More was planned, but I'm not certain on the inclusion; I don't know if the readers will view further sexual events as contradicting to the character or whether they will compromise her innocence or something

I do love the characters so far though. She is so complex and damaged; he is somewhat secretive. The trick is getting that on page.

The only moral compass I have is the two characters - one would do what the other wouldn't etc

In such a world I don't believe morality is too obvious

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universetwisters

I would've made a thread for this, but then I remember this existed:

Where is the line drawn between "so stupid it's funny" and "so stupid it's stupid"? I can imagine the answer is simply a matter of opinion, but I'm wondering if there's any profesional standards out there that define the difference.

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AceRay

I would've made a thread for this, but then I remember this existed:

 

Where is the line drawn between "so stupid it's funny" and "so stupid it's stupid"? I can imagine the answer is simply a matter of opinion, but I'm wondering if there's any profesional standards out there that define the difference.

TV Tropes has the answer to everything.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SoBadItsGood

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/SoBadItsHorrible

 

Basically, in so bad its good, you'll be having a laugh at how over the top it is or how serious something is supposed to be, whereas so bad its horrible means that its dreary and boring and isn't fun to watch.

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