Map Size Thread

[WolfbackGames]

,Monday, Jul 15 2013, 17:43] Just to let you guys know, the tennis court field where Michael and Jordan are playing at in the gameplay video (3:26) has the same <everything> as the tennis court fields used in GTA IV.

 

Try it out yourself, use OpenIV and look for the tennis field model (\data\maps\east\queens_m.img\am_fm2_tennis.wdr). You can overlay it with the videoframe, you can overlay it with the overhead zoom out shot, everything fits. So you will at least know the dimensions.

 

edit: added some quick made images

 

 

f*ck yeah you genius. This may give us an accurate scale if somebody is up for the work.

Someone seriously has to get on this sh*t and put an end to this thread.

[bakerach]

 

@bakerach

 

Yeah I live in Boston, it may not look big but it is decent size.

 

But this can't be accurate because Downtown Boston is almost bigger than all of LS.

I know it's not exactly right, but it's close enough to give a rough idea of how massive the city is. Look at the Prudential building compared to the downtown block of Los Santos-- just like the downtown city blocks of all the other cities I compared, they're pretty close in size. Back Bay and the Vespucci area are a couple of other neighborhoods that'll have comparable density/building sizes.

[FAH-Q]

True. I don't need to be sold on the size of LS, I already know its going to be big.

[Magic_Al]

 

I believe I can show that 5m street lanes can be measured consistent with my scaling.

F4t4l1ty just measured 6 meter lanes in IV.

And did an excellent job. And, indeed, the GTAIV map screen, properly scaled to 1 meter resolution, shows most 2-lane streets being 12 pixels wide. However there are certain bridges and ramps where it reverts to 5m.

 

Since we have cars for scale in the GTAV shots, I think they've gone back to 5m lanes, because to correct my scale for 6m lanes, I'd be going from 100 pixels = 10 meters to 100 pixels = 12 meters, which would increase the measured width of cars from 1.8m to 2.16m which is getting a bit fat (wider than a Hummer H2). 5m was already wider than real street lanes. 6m may have been a concession to GTAIV's "boat like" vehicle handling.

[SeaFoam]

 

very nice. i cant wait to see if we are able to view the map in this much detail in the pause menu. would be a nice feature and yes it does show the amazing size of los santos.

Not that it's confirmed, but someone discovered in the gameplay trailer that there is an image of a Google Maps like feature within the in-game eye.find web browser with exactly this detail. If something like this is available for us to use whenever, I'll be super stoked.

[kjacked]

very nice. i cant wait to see if we are able to view the map in this much detail in the pause menu. would be a nice feature and yes it does show the amazing size of los santos.

Not that it's confirmed, but someone discovered in the gameplay trailer that there is an image of a Google Maps like feature within the in-game eye.find web browser with exactly this detail. If something like this is available for us to use whenever, I'll be super stoked.

it would be very useful for planning out heists, finding campers in online deathmatch, finding routes or places you havent seen/experienced yet... the possibilites are endless. kinda makes you wonder if any of the underwater portions are mapped out for us in the same detail.

[SeaFoam]

very nice. i cant wait to see if we are able to view the map in this much detail in the pause menu. would be a nice feature and yes it does show the amazing size of los santos.

Not that it's confirmed, but someone discovered in the gameplay trailer that there is an image of a Google Maps like feature within the in-game eye.find web browser with exactly this detail. If something like this is available for us to use whenever, I'll be super stoked.

it would be very useful for planning out heists, finding campers in online deathmatch, finding routes or places you havent seen/experienced yet... the possibilites are endless. kinda makes you wonder if any of the underwater portions are mapped out for us in the same detail.

Definitely. There's going to be so much stuff in this game my head is now starting to hurt.

[GlitzyTomb]

I hope there is something like that in the game.

 

My favorite thing in the early days of GTAIV Multiplayer was finding motorcycles or helicopters and driving people around to whatever they were looking for. Back when motorcycles were difficult to maneuver I used to get a passenger and cut traffic at crazy speeds to get them to a helicopter/motorcycle/Sultan RS.

 

Would love to do that with a little biplane.

[Choco Taco]

Rough size estimate/comparison using basketball arenas in major cities as reference points

 

http://i.imgur.com/31ET00x.jpg

 

Again this is a very rough estimate, but anyone who's spent a decent amount of time in one of these cities understands how big LS is if this comparison is even close to correct.

How did you get your mile distance?

[Magic_Al]

Here is F4t4l1ty's measurement of the GTAIV tennis court vs. GTAV at the scale I believe it to be.

 

 

If I let that determine the scale of Los Santos I'd have to increase my blueprint size by 33%. No way. I'm not that far off, obviously.

 

My explanation for the tennis court, though I'm sure there will be disagreement, is that Rockstar scaled the GTAIV tennis court model to about 75% size in GTAV, which reduces its width from about 11m to 8.2 meters, which not coincidentally is regulation width for singles tennis. As I've noted before this makes the court 5m too short in the other direction, but Rockstar may have adapted the tennis game to deal with that; among possible advantages is being able to see the opponent in more detail because they're closer, and the camera can be closer to the game because a singles court is not as wide as a doubles court. I admit the theory is convoluted. In addition to the court being too short this way, there is a redundant singles sideline drawn on the surface. But the alternative is Los Santos is much bigger than I think it is and I don't see how that can be.

 

EDIT: I'm wrong.

Okay. I think Los Santos could be, actually, 33% bigger than I've said. When I look at the screenshot of Michael playing tennis, and use his feet to estimate width of the court, it looks like a full-size doubles court. When I adjust the scale on the top-down screenshots to be, for the closest view, 10 pixels = 1.333 meters, the two-lane street in front of Michaels house suddenly measures exactly 12m inside the curbs, consistent with 6m lanes in GTAIV. When I measure cars more carefully, acknowledging that it's not a top-down view and measuring just their roofs or something, even at the new scale they're still around 1.8m wide, really.

 

All those who said Los Santos is bigger, vindication may be at hand.

 

Los Santos Size if the tennis court is same size as in GTAIV:

Edited July 16, 2013 by Magic_Al

[GTAaLEX117]

Here is F4t4l1ty's measurement of the GTAIV tennis court vs. GTAV at the scale I believe it to be.

 

 

If I let that determine the scale of Los Santos I'd have to increase my blueprint size by 33%. No way. I'm not that far off, obviously.

 

 

Wouldn't a 33% increase in LS size basically be similar to my scale?

 

to

 

And yes, I believe LS can be even bigger than that since 1. the roads are less wide in-game, and 2. the V highway also has 2 shoulders and a large median while the IV one only has a small concrete median.

[GTAaLEX117]

Sorry for double posting, but this is the difference between our maps:

 

[Magic_Al]

Wouldn't a 33% increase in LS size basically be similar to my scale?

Pretty much. You win.

[wallis]

Here is F4t4l1ty's measurement of the GTAIV tennis court vs. GTAV at the scale I believe it to be.

 

 

If I let that determine the scale of Los Santos I'd have to increase my blueprint size by 33%.  No way.  I'm not that far off, obviously.

 

 

Wouldn't a 33% increase in LS size basically be similar to my scale?

 

to

 

And yes, I believe LS can be even bigger than that since 1. the roads are less wide in-game, and 2. the V highway also has 2 shoulders and a large median while the IV one only has a small concrete median.

can't you just use the size of the cars somehow? At least you know they will be the same scale in both games. Maybe using a heli and looking directly down over LC and pasting that image over the IV map and then scaling that to LS. Probably easier said than done, but just a suggestion.

[Ferocious Banger]

So, what's the estimated size now?

[Twiggy123]

Have we come to a consensus on whether or not LS is bigger, smaller or the same size as LC? Whichever it is.....by how much would you estimate?

[GTAaLEX117]

 

Can't you just use the size of the cars somehow? At least you know they will be the same scale in both games. Maybe using a heli and looking directly down over LC and pasting that image over the IV map and then scaling that to LS. Probably easier said than done, but just a suggestion.

I don't think cars are very accurate considering many do vary in width.

Unfortunately, I don't have IV on my computer anymore. I really wish somebody would provide me with a satellite view of in-game LC, that would definitely put an end to all these comparisons.

But then again it is fun to try to compare them

[wallis]

Can't you just use the size of the cars somehow? At least you know they will be the same scale in both games. Maybe using a heli and looking directly down over LC and pasting that image over the IV map and then scaling that to LS. Probably easier said than done, but just a suggestion.

I don't think cars are very accurate considering many do vary in width.

Unfortunately, I don't have IV on my computer anymore. I really wish somebody would provide me with a satellite view of in-game LC, that would definitely put an end to all these comparisons.

But then again it is fun to try to compare them

How much do the cars vary in width in the LS overhead shots?

[GTAaLEX117]

 

Los Santos Size if the tennis court is same size as in GTAIV:

I think this is very good.

The highway that I keep talking about in V, at this scale, would be as wide as the Broker Bridge. 4 lanes + the median and shoulders could definitely be as big as 4 lanes and a large gap between the lanes.

[GTAaLEX117]

Can't you just use the size of the cars somehow? At least you know they will be the same scale in both games. Maybe using a heli and looking directly down over LC and pasting that image over the IV map and then scaling that to LS. Probably easier said than done, but just a suggestion.

I don't think cars are very accurate considering many do vary in width.

Unfortunately, I don't have IV on my computer anymore. I really wish somebody would provide me with a satellite view of in-game LC, that would definitely put an end to all these comparisons.

But then again it is fun to try to compare them

How much do the cars vary in width in the LS overhead shots?

Well just magnify this image: http://www.igta5.com/images/official-scree...k-out-below.jpg

 

[Deffpony]

Ok so I did a quick rescale based on the gameplay trailer and this is what I got.

 

Using this scaled model of a car in GTA IV

 

 

 

Comparing it to this shot

 

 

 

And using these screens as a correlation to the blueprint

 

 

 

I obtained this scale

 

 

 

 

There is about a 5% room for error since the perspectives change as the camera raises, hence why the bluprint and screens arent aligned perfectly, and I think LS might be slightly smaller than this. Im preparing to run further comparisons once I get GTA IV installed on my PC.

 

 

If anyone wants a HUGE version of the blueprint with michaels neighborhood overlaid its here.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hdngwxiyzqpeben/m...20blueprint.jpg

[GKP]

I believe I can show that 5m street lanes can be measured consistent with my scaling. In the overhead view of Michael's location, we see there is a two-lane street in front of his house. By measuring directly underneath his position, we stay closest to the part of the image that is top-down from the camera. There is a downward hill to the right which makes the street appear smaller, and the camera angle is such that toward the top of the image is farther from the camera than the bottom. We see that a 100-pixel line is a close fit for the width of the street.

 

 

Jumping to the highest view, it's easy to show that this is exactly 1/10 the resolution of the first view. The street is 10 pixels wide as predicted, and if you scale the other image to 10%, you can paste it on top of this one and it fits in its place. If the full screenshot is overlaid on the blueprint so the streets line up, the screenshot marks an area of Los Santos 1280 meters by 720 meters. The blueprint scale follows from that.

Magic, I appreciate the work you have put into your calculations but your quite wrong re the lower image showing an area 1280 by 720.

 

Look at the lower far out image - the road width is 10m we agree yes ?....the lower image shows the North / South Dimensions to be 41 times the road width - try it in paint. That equates to an area of 410 m from North to south and an extreme left to right size at that scale of 730m

 

thus

 

the image is 720m by 410m...that would make LS quite a bit smaller.

 

[GTAaLEX117]

 

Magic, I appreciate the work you have put into your calculations but your quite wrong re the lower image showing an area 1280 by 720.

Look at the lower far out image - the road width is 10m we agree yes ?....the lower image shows the North / South Dimensions to be 41 times the road width - try it in paint. That equates to an area of 410 m from North to south and an extreme left to right size at that scale of 730m

thus

the image is 720m by 410m...that would make LS quite a bit smaller.

http://i39.tinypic.com/11takwz.jpg

I'm fairly sure that was his old scaling method. Check the new one which relies on the (known) size of two in-game reference points, the tennis courts.

 

Also, nice work Deff!

[LilBig A-Money]

 

to accurately determine how much larger LS is compared to LC. Somebody should try to fit the waterless map of LC into the blueprint map of LS by keeping both at the standard size, BUT trying to fit all of LC into the outline of LS by cutting up the parts of the map into shapes that could fit perfectly into one side of LS rather than just putting the map of LC over that of LS. I would do this myself, but I do not have the technology available to do this, so i will need some assistance. FOR EXAMPLE, lets say we have a perfect square(representing LS) and a circle(representing LC.) instead of just pasting the circle over the square to determine the percent of difference in size. we could cut up the the circle into several smaller pieces that could fit into the outline of the square like a puzzle, leaving no pieces of it outside of the outline. we can now determine that percentage of size difference by the remaining area inside the outline that the pieces of the circle have not covered. Hope i explained this right, i really hope somebody does this so we put an end to this

 

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag156/...ng?t=1373965693

 

This is what I meant, can someone make it look a lil better, but is does seem pretty accurate as it seems that LS is about 20-30% larger then LC

Edited July 16, 2013 by LilBig A-Money

[GTAaLEX117]

So far we have these scales:

 

Taco: http://i.imgur.com/ZeFJsZb.jpg

Mine: http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r597/A...eRdVHighway.jpg

Deff's: http://i.imgur.com/YCv4BCD.gif

Al's: http://i.imgur.com/9YomcFK.jpg

[Ferocious Banger]

If deffpony's calculations are true, LS is more or less the same size of LC.

[josephene123]

 

So far we have these scales:

 

Taco: http://i.imgur.com/ZeFJsZb.jpg

Mine: http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r597/A...eRdVHighway.jpg

Deff's: http://i.imgur.com/YCv4BCD.gif

Al's: http://i.imgur.com/9YomcFK.jpg

Wow, this looks great, thanks guys (Even Taco!)

 

And FB, if his scale is correct, it's quite a bit larger imo

Edited July 16, 2013 by josephene123

[Ferocious Banger]

So far we have these scales:

 

Taco: http://i.imgur.com/ZeFJsZb.jpg

Mine: http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r597/A...eRdVHighway.jpg

Deff's: http://i.imgur.com/YCv4BCD.gif

Al's: http://i.imgur.com/9YomcFK.jpg

Wow, this looks great, thanks guys (Even Taco!)

 

And FB, if his scale is correct, it's quite a bit larger imo

Oh yes, it's larger than the landmass of LC; but I am including the water in too!

[Argon]

I decided to try and add a little contribution to this thread. I used the tennis court in the new trailer for an estimate of the scale of LS. I'll have to add that I'm new to photoshop and it might be nice if someone could check my work. Below is an edited version of my post in the Mapping thread last week.

 

I made an estimate of a couple of distances on the blueprint map. The most important one is ofcourse the size of the dotted squares. By using a (8:1) pixel:meter scale, the tennis court was approximately 23.78 m long on the first topdown screen. The width and area was also a match with it's reallife counterpart. I've used this value to calculate the blue line, which is approximately 130.5 meter.

Then I scaled a more zoomed out screen to the blueprint map, as seen in the next picture. It doesn't fit perfectly, because it's not a 100% topdown view, but it's decent enough for an estimate. By using the estimate of 130.5 meter, I have a scale for the blueprint map. Using this scale, each dotted square is approximately 1350 x 1350 meter (0.839 x 0.839 mi), although I have noticed some deviation in the squares, as noted by other members. So yeah, again, by using a different object, the square size is about 1.35 x 1.35 km.

 

This makes the golfcourse 0.108 km^2. That's about 10 hectare (1 hectare = 100 x 100 m). Los Santos is about 9.4 km^2, which is about the size of 5 dotted squares on the blueprint map. I've used this as the outline of LS, but it's missing some northern parts and I've include the water in the harbor area.

Fido's map of the entire island is about 69 km^2 (26.5 square mi).

 

If somebody in here want to compare this to IV's map that would be great, since I'm not that familiar with IV's surface area. Unfortunately I don't have a nice flashy .gif comparison for you guys.

 

Edited July 16, 2013 by Argon

[Ferocious Banger]

Argon, great work!

 

But imo, LS should also include the oil rig.