Map Size Thread

[Choco Taco]

 

 

I said valid arguments, you basically gave me none.

 

Your estimate relies solely on the width of a line drawn on a map. Those lines were proven inaccurate when compared to the in-game streets. Since those are scaled wrong, then there's a chance the street widths on GTA IV's map are also not perfectly scaled.

 

Comparing actual in-game images will give you the best results.

 

 

 

 

Also Choco...a few pages ago you showed me a couple of other comparisons that you've made, namely these two:

 

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtop...entry1062646997

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtop...entry1062670178

 

And now all of a sudden you pull out this image:

http://i.imgur.com/XFuXExZ.jpg

 

Why? Do you even see how large the difference between the scales is? At least I settled on a scaling model and unlike you, I don't move back and forward between two completely different scales at will...

 

Sorry, but you've lost all credibility.

 

The bottom one is Magic_Al's estimate.

 

[GTAaLEX117]

 

 

I said valid arguments, you basically gave me none.

 

Your estimate relies solely on the width of a line drawn on a map. Those lines were proven inaccurate when compared to the in-game streets. Since those are scaled wrong, then there's a chance the street widths on GTA IV's map are also not perfectly scaled.

 

Comparing actual in-game images will give you the best results.

 

 

 

 

Also Choco...a few pages ago you showed me a couple of other comparisons that you've made, namely these two:

 

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtop...entry1062646997

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtop...entry1062670178

 

And now all of a sudden you pull out this image:

http://i.imgur.com/XFuXExZ.jpg

 

Why? Do you even see how large the difference between the scales is? At least I settled on a scaling model and unlike you, I don't move back and forward between two completely different scales at will...

 

Sorry, but you've lost all credibility.

 

The bottom one is Magic_Al's estimate.

My estimation relies on two things: the blueprint of V and the pause menu map of IV.

 

In the case of the blueprint, the in-game roads are less wide, but the blueprint's general size is accurate since it lines up well with the actual in-game map (as proven by the gameplay trailer).

 

The LC map is a whole different thing. Since it's the pause menu map, it's more than likely completely accurate to the in-game map.

Look, for example, at San Andreas:

 

 

When you superimpose them, they are pretty much identical (there are some minor issues, but that's mostly because I didn't manage to scale them perfectly).

If they did this with SA, i see no reason why the IV pause-menu map would differ from the actual in-game map.

 

So, like I said, the comparison is valid. The fact that the blueprint roads are wider means LS is even bigger than my scale. But for the moment I'll leave it at that.

 

 

Btw, if that's Magic Al's scale, why did you include your line method in it?

[F4t4l1ty]

Road widths in IV. Brian. said couple pages back that each lane in every GTA game is precisely 5 meters wide. In IV they are exactly 6 meters wide. Some screenshots to prove it:

Y-coordinate changes every screen by 12 meters (+- 2 cm) 4x6=24 m

 

2 lane road (12 m), Y-coordinate changes every screen by 6 meters (+- 2 cm)

 

Another 4 lane road in Algonquin, 24 meters wide. X-coordinate changes by 24 m (+- 2 cm)

 

SNT trainer for EFLC was used. I believe these coordinates are in metric system.

I measured tennis courts in Bohan same way and they are 11,12x23,92 (IRL they are 10,97x23,77), so they are scaled properly to their RL counterpart.

 

Sorry for a lot of images.

Edited July 15, 2013 by F4t4l1ty

[[enforcA]]

Just to let you guys know, the tennis court field where Michael and Jordan are playing at in the gameplay video (3:26) has the same <everything> as the tennis court fields used in GTA IV.

 

Try it out yourself, use OpenIV and look for the tennis field model (\data\maps\east\queens_m.img\am_fm2_tennis.wdr). You can overlay it with the videoframe, you can overlay it with the overhead zoom out shot, everything fits. So you will at least know the dimensions.

 

edit: added some quick made images

 

 

Edited July 15, 2013 by [enforcA]

[dewan2000]

So let me get this straight GKP, You want a bigger city yes? That is understandable, we would all love a larger city in a GTA game. But there are a few things you have to understand. The larger you make a city, the more detail you have to sacrifice. If you have a huge city there are going to be certain things when it comes to detail that will be cut out. You dont need a huge city to capture the feel of Southern California. I would of loved to see more parts of LA included but I am content with what they created. They did a great job and making the city look like a real thriving city. If they made it larger, who knows how many of the things we see that make the city look good might of been cut out.

 

It all ties into limitations as well with current gen consoles. You complain about performance (Which I see no dips in FPS at all, and im a PC gamer...I notice things like that easily). Well if you made the city even larger there is a good chance the game would have even more performance problems. The draw distances would most likely be scaled back as well as the render distance. It seems to me you were expecting a next-gen game on current gen consoles. And Id bet you that if rockstar pushed the release back so they could release the game strictly for next gen you would of been one of the first among many to complain. Since you yourself said development has taken too long already.

 

One last question...Why cant you just accept what Rockstar has created? Its clear they put alot of hard work and effort to create a great game. Other games dont even come close to the amount of dedication and effort put into GTA V. Instead of complaining appreciate what they have made for their fans. You are entitled to nothing and they didnt have to continue making games at all.

[GTAV789]

So let me get this straight GKP, You want a bigger city yes? That is understandable, we would all love a larger city in a GTA game. But there are a few things you have to understand. The larger you make a city, the more detail you have to sacrifice. If you have a huge city there are going to be certain things when it comes to detail that will be cut out. You dont need a huge city to capture the feel of Southern California. I would of loved to see more parts of LA included but I am content with what they created. They did a great job and making the city look like a real thriving city. If they made it larger, who knows how many of the things we see that make the city look good might of been cut out.

 

It all ties into limitations as well with current gen consoles. You complain about performance (Which I see no dips in FPS at all, and im a PC gamer...I notice things like that easily). Well if you made the city even larger there is a good chance the game would have even more performance problems. The draw distances would most likely be scaled back as well as the render distance. It seems to me you were expecting a next-gen game on current gen consoles. And Id bet you that if rockstar pushed the release back so they could release the game strictly for next gen you would of been one of the first among many to complain. Since you yourself said development has taken too long already.

 

One last question...Why cant you just accept what Rockstar has created? Its clear they put alot of hard work and effort to create a great game. Other games dont even come close to the amount of dedication and effort put into GTA V. Instead of complaining appreciate what they have made for their fans. You are entitled to nothing and they didnt have to continue making games at all.

It's not understandable. He wants LS to be the size of LA in real life, which is IMPOSSIBLE on the current gen console. He also expects 60 fps graphics on an 6 year old hardware, and thinks LC is bigger than LC which clearly is bollocks.

[October16th]

' date='Monday, Jul 15 2013, 17:43'] Just to let you guys know, the tennis court field where Michael and Jordan are playing at in the gameplay video (3:26) has the same <everything> as the tennis court fields used in GTA IV.

 

Try it out yourself, use OpenIV and look for the tennis field model (\data\maps\east\queens_m.img\am_fm2_tennis.wdr). You can overlay it with the videoframe, you can overlay it with the overhead zoom out shot, everything fits. So you will at least know the dimensions.

 

edit: added some quick made images

 

 

f*ck yeah you genius. This may give us an accurate scale if somebody is up for the work.

[josephene123]

,Monday, Jul 15 2013, 17:43] Just to let you guys know, the tennis court field where Michael and Jordan are playing at in the gameplay video (3:26) has the same <everything> as the tennis court fields used in GTA IV.

 

Try it out yourself, use OpenIV and look for the tennis field model (\data\maps\east\queens_m.img\am_fm2_tennis.wdr). You can overlay it with the videoframe, you can overlay it with the overhead zoom out shot, everything fits. So you will at least know the dimensions.

 

edit: added some quick made images

 

 

f*ck yeah you genius. This may give us an accurate scale if somebody is up for the work.

You know, for all this time, I almost don't even want to know.

[dewan2000]

So let me get this straight GKP,  You want a bigger city yes? That is understandable, we would all love a larger city in a GTA game.  But there are a few things you have to understand.  The larger you make a city, the more detail you have to sacrifice. If you have a huge city there are going to be certain things when it comes to detail that will be cut out.  You dont need a huge city to capture the feel of Southern California.  I would of loved to see more parts of LA included but I am content with what they created. They did a great job and making the city look like a real thriving city.  If they made it larger, who knows how many of the things we see that make the city look good might of been cut out.

 

It all ties into limitations as well with current gen consoles. You complain about performance (Which I see no dips in FPS at all, and im a PC gamer...I notice things like that easily).  Well if you made the city even larger there is a good chance the game would have even more performance problems.  The draw distances would most likely be scaled back as well as the render distance.  It seems to me you were expecting a next-gen game on current gen consoles.  And Id bet you that if rockstar pushed the release back so they could release the game strictly for next gen you would of been one of the first among many to complain. Since you yourself said development has taken too long already.

 

One last question...Why cant you just accept what Rockstar has created? Its clear they put alot of hard work and effort to create a great game. Other games dont even come close to the amount of dedication and effort put into GTA V. Instead of complaining appreciate what they have made for their fans. You are entitled to nothing and they didnt have to continue making games at all.

It's not understandable. He wants LS to be the size of LA in real life, which is IMPOSSIBLE on the current gen console. He also expects 60 fps graphics on an 6 year old hardware, and thinks LC is bigger than LC which clearly is bollocks.

well then that is just retarded. It would be nice to see Los Santos a bit bigger, but anything more than 20% bigger is just having incredibly unrealistic expectations. And 60FPS hasnt been on current gen consoles since well, Never actually. Beside maybe a select few games.

[Official General]

Look, just GKP alone. Yeah, he is pretty much on his own as far as this argument and debate is concerned, he is the only one left on here who thinks LS is small. BUT if he is not satisfied with size of LS and the game in general, then leave him. You guys are looking worse than him by attacking him. If he wants to think like that, let him not buy the game and let him miss out. I don't why you guys are getting so worked up by everything he says, it's his choice !

[October16th]

 

,Monday, Jul 15 2013, 17:43] Just to let you guys know, the tennis court field where Michael and Jordan are playing at in the gameplay video (3:26) has the same <everything> as the tennis court fields used in GTA IV.

 

Try it out yourself, use OpenIV and look for the tennis field model (\data\maps\east\queens_m.img\am_fm2_tennis.wdr). You can overlay it with the videoframe, you can overlay it with the overhead zoom out shot, everything fits. So you will at least know the dimensions.

 

edit: added some quick made images

 

 

f*ck yeah you genius. This may give us an accurate scale if somebody is up for the work.

You know, for all this time, I almost don't even want to know.

It could put an end to all the pointless bickering about the size of LS.

[josephene123]

It could put an end to all the pointless bickering about the size of LS.

I very much doubt it. If it gave a definite answer then we'd just have more arguments at whether or not that size is large enough. If it doesn't, then the debate continues

[TheDeaconBosco]

 

It could put an end to all the pointless bickering about the size of LS.

At this point everybody knows it's not going to happen until the in-game stats are used.

[October16th]

It could put an end to all the pointless bickering about the size of LS.

At this point everybody knows it's not going to happen until the in-game stats are used.

Yeah... I know.

[Eutyphro]

Look, just GKP alone. Yeah, he is pretty much on his own as far as this argument and debate is concerned, he is the only one left on here who thinks LS is small. BUT if he is not satisfied with size of LS and the game in general, then leave him. You guys are looking worse than him by attacking him. If he wants to think like that, let him not buy the game and let him miss out. I don't why you guys are getting so worked up by everything he says, it's his choice !

You make it seem like GKP is forcefully pulled into this thread and attacked when in reality he choses to come here himself and keeps provoking everyone on purpose. We don't have to go soft on him because he still makes the same mistake you made.

[Official General]

 

Look, just GKP alone. Yeah, he is pretty much on his own as far as this argument and debate is concerned, he is the only one left on here who thinks LS is small. BUT if he is not satisfied with size of LS and the game in general, then leave him. You guys are looking worse than him by attacking him. If he wants to think like that, let him not buy the game and let him miss out. I don't why you guys are getting so worked up by everything he says, it's his choice !

You make it seem like GKP is forcefully pulled into this thread and attacked when in reality he choses to come here himself and keeps provoking everyone on purpose. We don't have to go soft on him because he still makes the same mistake you made.

I did not make a mistake at all. From the screenshots, to me LS did look small, there is no changing that. I said what my inital instincts were and that if they were proved wrong I would admit it. That is not a mistake, it's just being proved wrong. And I never stated that I was totally right, I always maintained that I'll make a better judgement on the basis of more, detailed info.

 

Yeah that is just my point, he's provoking you and you are all falling right into his bait, he knows nearly everyone is happy with the size of LS, but he still wants to upset you guys and yet, you let him. He won't change his views. Really, just leave him alone and let him think what he wants, all this constant battling with him is pointless.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Official General

[wallis]

Look, just GKP alone. Yeah, he is pretty much on his own as far as this argument and debate is concerned, he is the only one left on here who thinks LS is small. BUT if he is not satisfied with size of LS and the game in general, then leave him. You guys are looking worse than him by attacking him. If he wants to think like that, let him not buy the game and let him miss out. I don't why you guys are getting so worked up by everything he says, it's his choice !

You make it seem like GKP is forcefully pulled into this thread and attacked when in reality he choses to come here himself and keeps provoking everyone on purpose. We don't have to go soft on him because he still makes the same mistake you made.

I don't see how he made a mistake. On page 8 of this thread he feared LS would only be about 3.5 - 4 sqr miles. This was considered small back then, as most of the so called RDF fanboys wouldn't accept that the city was this small. Most of them thought the city would be 6 - 7 sqr miles, larger than the city limits of LC. That's what this thread was originally about, and he was right. It was only after the blueprint was released that water was removed and a new debate about Landmass only started. I don't agree with alot of things he says, but he was spot on about how small he thought the city is. Is there still anyone who thinks LS is over 6.75 sqr miles?

[freedom]

I suspect this has already been done, but it really sells me on the scale & density of Los Santos.

 

[Eutyphro]

Look, just GKP alone. Yeah, he is pretty much on his own as far as this argument and debate is concerned, he is the only one left on here who thinks LS is small. BUT if he is not satisfied with size of LS and the game in general, then leave him. You guys are looking worse than him by attacking him. If he wants to think like that, let him not buy the game and let him miss out. I don't why you guys are getting so worked up by everything he says, it's his choice !

You make it seem like GKP is forcefully pulled into this thread and attacked when in reality he choses to come here himself and keeps provoking everyone on purpose. We don't have to go soft on him because he still makes the same mistake you made.

I did not make a mistake at all. I said what my inital instincts were and that if they were proved wrong I would admit it. That is not a mistake, it's just being proved wrong. And I never stated that I was totally right, I always maintained that I'll make a better judgement on the basis of more, detailed info.

 

Yeah that is just my point, he's provoking you and you are all falling right into his bait, he knows nearly everyone is happy with the size of LS, but he still wants to upset you guys and yet, you let him. He won't change his views. Really, just leave him alone and let him think what he wants, all this constant battling with him is pointless.

I don't think you should judge a map size on the basis of eye balling. If you show something from high up, it will make it seem smaller. And now they showed it from close up and suddenly you were convinced how big it is. That was a pretty childish mistake.

 

GKP doesn't upset me at all. Though it is kind of annoying to see this thread go to sh*t whenever he gets in it, but in a way he is entertaining too. The battling is pointless. True. But now someone will come in and say nothing has a point, and he would be right.

[Official General]

 

I don't think you should judge a map size on the basis of eye balling. If you show something from high up, it will make it seem smaller. And now they showed it from close up and suddenly you were convinced how big it is. That was a pretty childish mistake.

 

GKP doesn't upset me at all. Though it is kind of annoying to see this thread go to sh*t whenever he gets in it, but in a way he is entertaining too. The battling is pointless. True. But now someone will come in and say nothing has a point, and he would be right.

You are very stupid and thick do you know that ? Did you not read a word of what I previously posted or any of my previous comments for that matter ?? I just told you that I NEVER once stated that LS was definitely small. I said judging from the screenshots and the blueprint map, it LOOKED small and I had good reason to believe it did initially. I did NOT say it definitely was small. Do you understand the difference ? Okay, assuming your thick skull does, I also said before that I would reserve my final judgement until I either saw more detailed information or or I finally played the game myself, and that if I'm proved wrong then I would admit it. That is not really a mistake is it ? No it was not, it was was my speculation that was proved wrong in the end by the new info I saw in the gameplay video. How hard is that for you to understand ??

 

And if GKP does not upset you, why don;t you just forget about whatever the f**k he thinks ?

Edited July 16, 2013 by Official General

[kjacked]

I suspect this has already been done, but it really sells me on the scale & density of Los Santos.

 

very nice. i cant wait to see if we are able to view the map in this much detail in the pause menu. would be a nice feature and yes it does show the amazing size of los santos.

[Eutyphro]

 

I don't think you should judge a map size on the basis of eye balling. If you show something from high up, it will make it seem smaller. And now they showed it from close up and suddenly you were convinced how big it is. That was a pretty childish mistake.

 

GKP doesn't upset me at all. Though it is kind of annoying to see this thread go to sh*t whenever he gets in it, but in a way he is entertaining too. The battling is pointless. True. But now someone will come in and say nothing has a point, and he would be right.

You are very stupid and thick do you know that ? Did you not read a word of what I previously posted or any of my previous comments for that matter ?? I just told you that I NEVER once stated that LS was definitely small. I said judging from the screenshots and the blueprint map, it LOOKED small with good reason to believe it did initially. I did NOT say it definitely was small. Do you understand the difference ? Okay, assuming your thick skull does, I also said before that I would reserve my final judgement until I either saw more detailed information or or I finally played the game myself, and that if I'm proved wrong then I would admit it. That is not really a mistake is it ? No it was not, it was was my speculation that was proved wrong in the end by the new info I saw in the gameplay video. How hard is that for you to understand ??

 

And if GKP does not upset you, why don;t you just forget about whatever the f**k he thinks ?

How about you chill the f*ck out? You made a mistake in your speculation. Talking sh*t that's speculation is still sh*t. You clearly are not aware of the meaning of the word mistake.

 

Why I would comment on something that doesn't upset me? That's what I do all the time. Does everything you comment on upset you? That must be tough.

Edited July 16, 2013 by gtaxpert

[Official General]

You made a misstake in your speculation. You clearly are not aware of the meaning of the word mistake.

 

 

You need specialist English, Grammar and spelling lessons, I cannot help you any further.

 

I got my speculation wrong you mean ? What an amazing discovery Sherlock Holmes, thanks for letting me know

[Eutyphro]

 

You made a misstake in your speculation. You clearly are not aware of the meaning of the word mistake.

 

 

You need specialist English, Grammar and spelling lessons, I cannot help you any further.

 

I got my speculation wrong you mean ? What an amazing discovery Sherlock Holmes, thanks for letting me know

Oh, I misspelled mistake because of a typo. Who gives a sh*t? I actually corrected it before you noticed it. Since when is the word grammar capitalized? Yeah, great point man.

[Official General]

 

You made a misstake in your speculation. You clearly are not aware of the meaning of the word mistake.

 

 

You need specialist English, Grammar and spelling lessons, I cannot help you any further.

 

I got my speculation wrong you mean ? What an amazing discovery Sherlock Holmes, thanks for letting me know

Oh, I misspelled mistake because of a typo. Who gives a sh*t? I actually corrected it before you noticed it. Since when is the word grammar capitalized? Yeah, great point man.

I done with you and your dumb thick skull.

 

But just to let you know, I was not referring to the typo you made. I'm referring to your interpretation of the word 'mistake'. You obviously don't know what it means or what it defines. I tried to help you, but you are still too dumb to understand. Therefore, you need more specialist English, grammar and spelling lessons.

 

Goodnight fool.

[bakerach]

Rough size estimate/comparison using basketball arenas in major cities as reference points

 

 

Again this is a very rough estimate, but anyone who's spent a decent amount of time in one of these cities understands how big LS is if this comparison is even close to correct.

[kjacked]

Rough size estimate/comparison using basketball arenas in major cities as reference points

 

 

Again this is a very rough estimate, but anyone who's spent a decent amount of time in one of these cities understands how big LS is if this comparison is even close to correct.

good find. this scale would still mean los santos is substantially larger than gta iv

[Magic_Al]

I believe I can show that 5m street lanes can be measured consistent with my scaling. In the overhead view of Michael's location, we see there is a two-lane street in front of his house. By measuring directly underneath his position, we stay closest to the part of the image that is top-down from the camera. There is a downward hill to the right which makes the street appear smaller, and the camera angle is such that toward the top of the image is farther from the camera than the bottom. We see that a 100-pixel line is a close fit for the width of the street.

 

 

Jumping to the highest view, it's easy to show that this is exactly 1/10 the resolution of the first view. The street is 10 pixels wide as predicted, and if you scale the other image to 10%, you can paste it on top of this one and it fits in its place. If the full screenshot is overlaid on the blueprint so the streets line up, the screenshot marks an area of Los Santos 1280 meters by 720 meters. The blueprint scale follows from that.

[Eutyphro]

I believe I can show that 5m street lanes can be measured consistent with my scaling.

F4t4l1ty just measured 6 meter lanes in IV.

[FAH-Q]

@bakerach

 

Yeah I live in Boston, it may not look big but it is decent size.

 

But this can't be accurate because Downtown Boston is almost bigger than all of LS.