NFL Discussion

[whats_a_username?]

I agree, it's way too harsh.

 

They play the Bills one of those weeks, week 2 or 3. I want the best players on the field, even Brady. That way, when we beat them, there won't be any excuses.

 

#FreeTomBrady

[d Pride b]

Saints have a new good OL hopefully that would help them run the ball more especially now they have C.J Spiller

[Jonesizzle]

Too harsh? So I assume we just ignore any other incident involving this organization in the past decade? The Patriots organization push the rules to and past the limits, this is their punishment.

[jatiger13]

Brady has no other violations though. You can't punish him harsher just because the organization had prior violations.

If a Browns, Saints or Falcons player violates the rules, should he be punished harder than players on other teams would get punished?

Bullsh*t.

This was a witch hunt from the beginning.

Otherwise they would have been issued a warning, like in the case with the Minnesota - Carolina game.

 

Furthermore, only one of the footballs were 2 pounds under the limit. The other were either about one pound under, barely under or within the limits.

This has been ridiculous from the start. It really shows how petty minds the "Punish-the-Patriots" people really have.

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/02/01/deflategate-only-one-patriots-football-underinflated

Edited May 12, 2015 by jatiger13

[Geralt of Rivia]

I'm so happy. When I saw the NFL alert, I was ecstatic.

 

f*ck the Patriots. f*ck Brady. Can't stand him.

[jatiger13]

I'm so happy. When I saw the NFL alert, I was ecstatic.

 

f*ck the Patriots. f*ck Brady. Can't stand him.

He could still win the appeal. Don't get too happy yet.

[Geralt of Rivia]

It's a win-win either way. He loses appeal, he's suspended for 4 games. He wins appeal, he's likely able to play against the Cowboys.

[Jonesizzle]

First violation, and hopefully the last. If the Patriots didn't have such a reputation then this wouldn't be a big deal... but since they keep bending and breaking rules, it shouldn't have been a difficult choice.

 

Does the NFL/Goodelll need to keep (barely) hitting the pockets and take draft picks from the Patriots forever? No. Get the star player, arguably one of the best ever and the guy this investigation is centered around, suspended for a few games. I have no doubt Tom is guilty, and if you think not, then you're guilable. If he swallowed the pill and admitted to it then it might have been less painful of his part, but he's playing the clueless 'I didn't do it' card.. which if you follow sports in general ths is a act we all know too well.

 

I'm no Patriots fan, but as a football fan I enjoy watching the Pats and Tom. I don't want to sed Tom fail, infact I hope he bounces back from this and continues his dominance.

Edited May 12, 2015 by DOOM!

[GTA3Rockstar]

First time PED offense get 4 games, which counts as cheating. This is basically Brady's first offense, so first time offense four games. Not harsher than anyone else.

 

Plus, considering there was more than just Brady involved, the organization gets hit. So the draft picks and $1mil fine is just fine.

 

So what if he was "generally aware" because he basically orchestrated those two equipment managers to do it. Texts showed. They got suspended as well without pay.

 

No one really cared about that game because it wasn't caught during the AFC Championship game and they was only heating the balls up because it was cold as f*ck during that game. Big deal. Granted it didn't mean the Pats would beat them by 38, cause they was going to anyways but if it came down to a touchdown game, guaranteed it would've been much worse.

 

So, f*ck that, that whole organization is known for cheating to succeed.

 

Hope he won't. He shouldn't he didn't cooperate the first time either.

Edited May 12, 2015 by GTA3Rockstar

[jatiger13]

Show me one of those texts that shows that Brady orchestrated/ordered the deflation of the footballs. Just one. I have yet to see one.

 

Why did the Patriots organization get punished so harshly? The report stated that the Patriots didn't do anything wrong.

Once again, the NFL punishes the Pats hard for a BS reason. Just like "spygate", which I doubt anyone here actually know what really happened.

 

They were taping the opposing coaches, which is allowed and every team does it. The Patriots just happened to do it from the wrong area. THE WRONG AREA! That's all it was.

Yet, I always here people say "they were filming other teams practices". Lol, NO they didn't.

Media have reported so many wrong things regarding both spygate and deflate-gate. But they never take back the false things that they report, so a lot of people still thinks that those false reports are true. Spygate is a perfect example for that.

 

 

Once again the NFL went way overboard. But their recent history of being seen as coming down with punishments that are considered to be too light might have something to do with that.

 

I've read the Wells report. It's flawed and full of inconsistencies. Read it for yourself. At the end, Wells didn't even know what really took place.

The gauges that were used didn't even work right. Had they worked correctly, the psi could have been around what would have been expected after being exposed to the elements for 90 minutes.

Botched and incomplete investigation. And it took how long?

 

Punishing the Patriots this harshly is just asinine.

"You were cooperative and didn't do anything wrong, but we are STILL going to take $1 million and two draft picks."

 

In the case of Brady...

"We sorta kinda think you might maybe have possibly had something to do with this, although we can't really say that you did. But we suspect you sorta kinda possibly maybe knew what was going on."

 

Wow I'm convinced.

 

-------

 

Ex-Eagles and retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs is commonplace.

 

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Eagles QB said in a radio interview. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard."

 

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

 

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Eagles in 2004.

 

 

Look at that, we allegedly did it as well. Edited May 12, 2015 by jatiger13

[whats_a_username?]

The Patriots are to "cheating" what the the Cowboys are to domestic violence.

[Jonesizzle]

Yeah, because all the Cowboys organization and players are commonly known for domestic abuse.... really guy? or is your post going over my head?

 

jatiger, this punishment isn't in of light of the NFL handing down weak punishments... it's because the New England Patriots are infamously known for doing shenanigans like this.

 

If someone gets in trouble once, it happens, you thought you could get away. But when there is a pattern of behavior then something needs to be done... Ryan Clark said this organization teaches their workers this "cheating" mentality, I could see it completely true and completely biased on his part.

 

Just because nothing was proved, doesn't mean you need to take it with a grain of salt. Past actions of this organization, whether you say it didn't happen, needs to be taken into account. Hell, jatiger, sounds like you're tryin' to brew up a conspiracy.

Edited May 12, 2015 by DOOM!

[jatiger13]

Past actions needs to be taken into account? Really? Not this time.

According to the report, the Patriots didn't do anything wrong. So why punish them?

Punish the ball boys if you are going to punish someone.

The NFL don't even know how to deal out punishments correctly. If they did, Belichick would've been suspended as well. Remember the bounty scandal in NO? Payton got suspended for a year, just because he should've known what was going on in the organization. "Ignorance is not an excuse".

So why wasn't Belichick punished? He should've known about this as well, if there actually was some wrongdoing going on.

 

Certain people had an agenda in this case though. They were going to punish the Pats no matter what, it clearly shows.

Exhibit A: According to the Wells report, the Patriots were not found guilty of any wrongdoing. Somehow, the NFL (now stands for NoF-ingLogic) fines the Patriots $1 million and takes away two draft picks.

 

 

I've read the whole report. I doubt many people in the media have read it, judging by some of their comments.

There are so many flaws in this whole investigation, it's laughable that it took 4 months.

 

 

I'm starting to sound like a Patriots fan. Let's get back to bashing the Cowboys or Giants again.

 

 

Well, at least the Patriots will be starting the best QB to ever come out of Eastern Illinois University. (If the suspension is upheld)

 

Shots fired. You're move Cowboys fans.

 

Edited May 12, 2015 by jatiger13

[Jonesizzle]

Well, at least the Patriots will be starting the best QB to ever come out of Eastern Illinois University. (If the suspension is upheld)

 

Shots fired. You're move Cowboys fans.

 

Best Eastern Illinois QB to be drafted.

 

 

dick

 

[jatiger13]

Garoppolo holds the records at EIU.

He has the most Super Bowl championships of any QB that ever came out of EIU.

-------

 

Back to the Wells report.

 

Here are the five biggest issues in the Wells Report:

 

PSI wasnt recorded before the AFC Championship Game

 

This is the biggest issue with any data trying to prove the Patriots deflated footballs. Referee Walt Anderson, after being told football pressure could be an issue in the AFC Championship Game, didnt record his pregame measurements. The Wells report bases all data on the Colts footballs being 13 PSI before the game and the Patriots footballs being 12.5 based on Andersons recollection. If the Patriots footballs were a tick under 12.5 PSI or if the Colts footballs were a tick over 13 PSI, then it throws off all data. Anderson said he didnt add or release pressure from the Colts footballs. One Colts football measured at 12.95 PSI on one gauge, so it seems extremely unlikely that football began at 13 PSI.

 

Two pressure gauges used were wildly off

 

Another major issue with any data relating to the PSI in either teams footballs is the two pressure gauges used were approximately .35 PSI off from one another. Anderson said he recalls using the logo gauge, which reads higher than the non-logo gauge. The Wells Report ignored Andersons recollection and chose to assume he used the non-logo gauge because it suited their data better. If the logo gauge was used before the AFC Championship Game, then the Patriots footballs averaged 11.48 PSI at halftime, which is well within the level a football can drop according to the Ideal Gas Law during the AFC Championship Game. If the non-logo gauge was used, then it looks far more damning for the Patriots. Thats the issue, though. No one knows which gauge was used, and its entirely possible Anderson used both gauges before the game to measure PSI for both teams and reduce pressure in the Patriots footballs. If the NFL wants footballs to fall within a 1 PSI range, then it cant use gauges that range considerably from one another.

 

Colts footballs were tested after Patriots footballs

 

The footballs were brought inside the officials locker room at halftime, and 11 Patriots footballs and four Colts footballs were tested. The Patriots footballs were tested, and possibly refilled, before the officials tested the Colts footballs. The officials were in the locker room for 13-and-a-half minutes, and based on data collected in the Wells Report, a cold, damp football can raise 0.7 PSI in 13 minutes. That amount of time would at least partially explain why the Patriots footballs deflated more than the Colts footballs.

 

Only testing four Colts footballs because of time restraints is another issue because of small sample size. The Colts footballs were supposed to serve as a control, but that idea was destroyed when the footballs werent tested simultaneously, and when the NFL decided to test just four footballs from Indianapolis.

 

Text messages were dated months before AFC Championship Game

 

The most damning evidence against the Patriots is within the text exchanges between team staffers John Jastremski and Jim McNally, in which the former references a needle and the latter calls himself the deflator and jokingly threatens to go to ESPN. The issue with these texts is theyre from May and October months away from the January AFC Championship Game. Those texts would look a lot more damning if they came in the weeks prior to the Patriots matchup against the Colts. Whos to say the Patriots were deflating footballs, then stopped before January because they caught wind the league was after them? Obviously McNallys trip to the bathroom looks suspicious, and the fact that he originally said he didnt stop in the restroom in his initial interview looks even worse, but it alone probably shouldnt assume guilt.

 

Texts never state Tom Brady wanted his footballs under 12.5 PSI

 

The closest Jastremski or McNally comes to saying Brady is in on any deflation is when Jastremski texts the following:

 

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done

Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though

Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn The refs (expletive) us a few of them were at almost 16

Jastremski: They didnt recheck them after they put air in them

 

This was after the Patriots Week 7 win over the New York Jets, and it actually raises more questions than answers. If McNallys stress was to deflate footballs, then why were they at 16 PSI the next morning? Apparently, McNally wasnt doing his job very well. Why were the footballs at 16 PSI at all? The Patriots must have submitted footballs under 12.5, the officials must have refilled them, and they refilled them way too much without checking the level, proving no one really cared about football inflation or deflation as recently as October. McNally also sends these texts to his fiancée that week:

 

Jastremski: Ugh Tom was right.

Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs They were like 16. Felt like bricks

 

This is actually the only text in which Bradys desired PSI is revealed, and its not 12.5 or lower. McNally told the officials Brady wanted the footballs inflated to 12.5. A common theme in Jastremski and McNallys texts is Brady complaining about the PSI level in footballs, but it all seems to be related to the Jets game, when they were overfilled by 3.5 PSI.

 

Now tell me that there is enough evidence to suspend Brady for 4 games.

Flawed investigation throughout.

 

Also, it seems that the only time Brady and footballs are mentioned in the texts, is because the balls were over inflated by a large margin. Nowhere is Brady telling them to deflate below the limits allowed.

 

The NFL f*cked up... again.

Edited May 12, 2015 by jatiger13

[Jonesizzle]

With that logic Damon Huard is a legendary QB compared to Warren Moon.

[jatiger13]

I've heard of Huard. But who is Warren Moon?

Edited May 13, 2015 by jatiger13

[GTA3Rockstar]

Show me one of those texts that shows that Brady orchestrated/ordered the deflation of the footballs. Just one. I have yet to see one.

 

Why did the Patriots organization get punished so harshly? The report stated that the Patriots didn't do anything wrong.

Once again, the NFL punishes the Pats hard for a BS reason. Just like "spygate", which I doubt anyone here actually know what really happened.

 

They were taping the opposing coaches, which is allowed and every team does it. The Patriots just happened to do it from the wrong area. THE WRONG AREA! That's all it was.

Yet, I always here people say "they were filming other teams practices". Lol, NO they didn't.

Media have reported so many wrong things regarding both spygate and deflate-gate. But they never take back the false things that they report, so a lot of people still thinks that those false reports are true. Spygate is a perfect example for that.

 

 

Once again the NFL went way overboard. But their recent history of being seen as coming down with punishments that are considered to be too light might have something to do with that.

 

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/brady-patriots-employee-texts-deflategate-2015-5

 

Brady didn't wanna give up his phone for the investigation, so he didn't even cooperate.

 

The same reason Payton got suspended for the scandal, he said he didn't know what was going on so he got hit hard too. Same reason the Patriots are.

 

The two equipment managers got hit hard too, suspended indefinitely, while Brady just throws them under the boss.

 

 

So who cares, they'll appeal it and probably get 2 games.

[jatiger13]

^Brady had the right to deny them access to his phone. That isn't something that he should be punished for, since that was his right in this case. Without a subpoena, he can't be forced to hand over the phone. There are many other protections that players have because of the union.

 

He cooperated, he let them interview him.

 

 

-------

 

 

Tl; dr

The investigation was flawed and based on nothing but assumptions and circumstantial evidence.

 

-----

I wonder if anyone here has looked into the "evidence".

Wells jumps to conclusions all the time in his report. He assumes, assumes and assumes. It's clear that they make the "evidence" fits their narrative (Wells' narrative). Anything that contradicts their story is thrown out and seen as false, without any evidence that the information given is false.

 

Nowhere in the texts does it say that Brady told them to deflate the footballs below the allowed limit. He only complained when it was above the allowed limit.

 

Regarding the texts...

The text where the guy calls himself the "deflator" was sent in MAY. Yet, Wells somehow sees that as evidence that they are doing this during games. Funny that. I was unaware that NFL had scheduled games in May. I mean, it's impossible that they were just talking about practice balls, right? And how much were the balls being deflated IN MAY? It could be balls in the bags that Brady said were a bit hard, so he might have told them to let a little air out. We dont know the PSI levels of any of these balls, so making assumptions that they were deflated below the allowed limit is just asinine and idiotic to say the least. Furthermore, the NFL does not have rules for practice balls. So is that a possible explanation?

According to Wells, it is impossible. Once again they make the "evidence" fit their narrative, WITHOUT ANYTHING TO BACK IT UP OTHER THAN HIS OPINION.

 

Even during the season, none of the texts discuss deflating the balls below the allowed limits. But Wells, surprise surprise, takes it upon himself to draw conclusions and once again interpret the texts as being about going below 12.5. Only time that PSI is mentioned, is when the balls were at 16 for one game. Too high, even according to the rules.

 

 

The balls have to have the "qualities of a new or a nearly new ball". Eli Manning does not follow that rule. Should he get suspended? His equipment guys have gone on record saying that Eli wants his balls to feel like a 10 year old ball. Such a ball would NOT have the characteristics of a new or nearly new ball.

 

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?referrer=

It's a mobile link. If it doesn't work for you, just Google "Eli Manning preparation of footballs" or something like that.

 

You're move NFL.

 

 

 

If the goal of this investigation was to base their conclusions on nothing but circumstantial evidence, Wells met that criteria. Nothing substantial. Just opinions and making the evidence fit their preconceived notions. Great job Wells.

Edited May 13, 2015 by jatiger13

[Geralt of Rivia]

f*ck Brady. That lying cheat.

 

Anyway, Brady has a right to not turn over his cellphone. You're right. That right also comes with punishment. The punishment of not cooperating with an investigation.

 

Which, of course, the NFL suspended him for.

 

f*ck Brady.

 

EDIT: I need to add another 'f*ck Brady', because I feel like there isn't enough in my post.

 

f*ck Brady.

Edited May 13, 2015 by TheMasterfocker

[GTA3Rockstar]

In other news, the Jags signed their 1st round pick, even after tearing his ACL. Good on them, injuries happen; just happened at the worst of times, but glad he got his contract.

[whats_a_username?]

f*ck Wells and his incompetence.

 

The Patriots are to "cheating" what the the Cowboys are to domestic violence.

What I meant when I said that was... the Patriots condone cheating just as much as the Cowboys condones domestic violence.

Ryan Clarks comments about the Patriots teaching their employees the "cheating mentality", that's completely biased on his part and completely unfounded. How could he know about the inner workings of the most secretive organization in the NFL? The simple answer is, "more probable than not", he f*cking couldn't know that. He needs to shut the f*ck up with his damn slander.

 

As a Bills fan, other than the Bills, there is no other organization that I respect more than the Patriots and the greatest QB and the greatest coach of all time, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.

[jatiger13]

In other news, the Jags signed their 1st round pick, even after tearing his ACL. Good on them, injuries happen; just happened at the worst of times, but glad he got his contract.

That's why some GM's don't allow rookies to take part in those first activities.

 

-------

 

Why weren't the officials looked at more closely?

The ref in charge of checking the balls pregame doesn't even remember the details of that pregame check. He has a "fuzzy" memory about it. Yet, a lot of the investigation is based on the pregame checks.

 

Also, in the case of the Jets game, the balls were severely over inflated. At 16 psi. So how seriously do the refs actually take these pregame checks?

There's a possibility that this whole thing comes down to an error made by a referee. But Wells NEVER looks into that. Further proof that it was a very flawed investigation. They had a preconceived notion in regards to who had done something wrong and they make the evidence fit their narrative, poorly.

 

 

Going back to the Minnesota - Carolina game. The heating of footballs is covered under the same rule as the thing the Pats are accused of. It was an extremely cold day. Heating the footballs could have given the team that did it an "unfair advantage".

They received a warning, the Pats didn't.

 

The league has mishandled this whole thing from the start. The omissions, contradictions and jumping to conclusions in the Wells report is just part of this whole debacle.

Edited May 13, 2015 by jatiger13

[GTA3Rockstar]

Blame Belicheat for why they got the stuffer penalty than the Minn-Car game. Already done something shady.

 

Who knows how long they've been doing it either. If the Colts didn't intercept the ball, we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

 

 

 

Also

 

 

 

LOL

 

 

I forgot to mention it before, whenever that press conference was, but did anyone else notice the Gillette hashtag on the wall behind Brady? #Flexball lol it was the first thing I noticed, surprised noone mentioned it in an article

Edited May 13, 2015 by GTA3Rockstar

[jatiger13]

^That's funny.

 

Going back to May 2012.. why didn't anyone look into Beach-gate?

 

 

 

 

That's your boy, focker.

 

Why did Eli play on the beach without an adult attending to him? This taints the Giants SB win.

They haven't won a championship since that.

Edited May 13, 2015 by jatiger13

[Geralt of Rivia]

f*cking love that picture. It's just so Eli. It's just so perfect.

 

Someone on /r/nygiants made a watercolor painting of that picture, and it was amazing and got picked up by a few sites. 'Twas a good time.

[Jonesizzle]

"I meant when I said that was... the Patriots condone cheating just as much as the Cowboys condones domestic violence."

 

 

If that's the case then the Patriots condone DUI/Vehicular Manslaughter with the signing of Dante Stallworth, they and your Bills condone taking banned substances (Brandon Spikes), I guess Minnesota, Oakland, San Francisco and New England condone violence and pot smoking(Randy Moss), Philly condones dog fighting and doing time in a federal prison, your Bills also condone having weapon charges placed against you (Marshawn Lynch) and Minnesota condones smacking your kid with a switch... that's based off your flawed logic, come on man.

 

I'm guessing you're still salty about the 90's, being a Bills fan and all.

Edited May 13, 2015 by DOOM!

[Geralt of Rivia]

Ladies...You're all pretty.

 

Don't make me get Jerry in here.

 

 

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

[Jonesizzle]

Here I was expecting a Jerry Jones pun.

[jatiger13]

Eli and Tony discussing their playoff experiences during their career.

Eli -"Tony didn't have much to say".

 

Edited May 13, 2015 by jatiger13