Homeschooling

[El Dildo]

mark my words in thirty to forty years public education will be dead.

yeah I doubt it.

[FAH-Q]

I agree 100% Trip.

[EscoLehGo]

And there you have it. School is not so much about the academics learned, but how to learn. Most importantly is learning how to work in and around different people.

I sure as hell hope that home school kids aren't expected to be sheltered little shut ins with no outside friends and fun. My concern is missing out on learning how to deal with different personality types and some of the drama that comes along with that. Out of everything I learned in school that is what I carried most to my adult life.

 

 

 

This is true of myself as well, being thrust into the public school system with all sorts of different people from different backgrounds who had differing ideologies, religions and upbringings really impacted me growing up as well. Especially since I was in a military-centric city and we got kids from all over the US and not just the state or even the region in general. All of that doesn't stop when you grow up and move on, in fact, in most cases the diversity only increases so I kind of see public education as the foundation for dealing with it properly later on instead of having an ignorant response no matter if well intentioned or not.

[Adler]

That's disturbing, and it's disgusting how the mother spoonfeeds her son that nonsense. I wonder how he grows up to be.

[GTA_stu]

Yh that's the thing about school, it's not just the academic aspect and getting an education. It's also about developing and maturing, socially and as a person. There are big disadvantages to social development if you're home-schooled. I remember in year 8 (age 12) there was a new kid that came into my class, and he had been home-schooled for the majority of his life, and he was just f*cking eaten alive. He got totally ripped apart and had clearly been sheltered at home. He just couldn't cope poor guy.

 

His mum couldn't have picked a worse school though, or a worse time. The school was in the city with the worst school performance in the whole country, and my school performed the lowest out of the entire city when I sat my final exams. The school was also gender segregated, so it was an all boys class. He also came about halfway through the year, when everyone already knew each other. So he came in as an outsider.

 

On his first day he had a carton of milk poured on him, and his head got put through a window a few days later. Needless to say he didn't stay long.

 

Obviously not every person that's home-schooled will be a social screw up, but it does tend to put them behind quite considerably. Attending school doesn't guarantee anything either, and sometimes home-schooling can be more beneficial. I still think home-schooling is stupid though.

[Kifflom112]

I've met some socially f'ed up people,in public school. Just saying.

[trip]

I've met some socially f'ed up people,in public school. Just saying.

Exactly. And that is preparing you for the even more socially f*cked up people you will HAVE to deal with in your work career. People you can't just turn around and ignore. People you have no choice but to have conversations with. People you will need to advance your career.

 

The socially f*cked up people you deal with all through school don't go away. They too grow up, become adults, get jobs, and sometimes have positions above you.

[King Of Monra]

Do home schooled kids have any social skills?

That is the stigma though right? That they don't?

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

 

Also, what's up with American private schools being able to teach kids whatever the hell they want? Isn't education enough of a public interest that the government should have a say in what these schools can and can't teach the kids? How is teaching any religious doctrine like those Catholic schools of any interest to the future of the nation?

Though we may not agree on what some institutions teach, the content they teach should not be regulated beyond empirical academic benchmarks. Otherwise, the government would have the power to control the academia of all Americans. No one should absolutely control the knowledge in America. That's the whole point in private school to begin with - the power to disagree with the academics endorsed by the government. I would even go so far as to say it's protected by the first amendment; given that one's speech, religion, assembly, and expression all flow from the faucet of "knowledge" (or lack thereof).

 

 

 

*There are several types of private schools beyond Catholic ones. I went to a Christian -but non-Catholic - school in early Elementary and I personally think religion is bs. Furthermore, a lot of private schools in America aren't religiously affiliated. The churches are just one of few organizations in the US willing to dedicate their resources to such efforts. Hence the favorable tax treatment by our government.

Edited February 20, 2013 by canttakemyid

[EscoLehGo]

Do home schooled kids have any social skills?

That is the stigma though right? That they don't?

Depends on the parents and what all they're getting their kids socially involved with I would think, but the fact that they've decided to shield them from both public and private schools would lead me to believe they'd be very selective about who their children kept company with which could probably lead to some social issues. There's always the exception to the rule though. In my experience, even kids that went to private schools tend to be a little more socially awkward than those who went through the public school system. I went to a Christian private school for 2 1/2 years before returning to public school and looking back I can say I was a bit socially stunted during that period of time and it was a little hard to adjust back to public high school coming from a private middle school.

[baguvix_wanrltw]

Hm. What is it with the flamebait threads here? Is the off topic section actually the "bash each others heads in, noone's looking" section? If so I approve.

 

School is not about what you learn, it's about learning to learn in a way that actually works for you specifically and learning the basics of social interaction.

 

How much of the crap you learned in school 10 years ago do you still remember? How much knowledge have you gained since then?

 

Around here private schools aren't worth jack sh*t, parents usually buy their kids' grades.

 

Public schools here range from so-easy-any-retard-could-teach-there (and they do) to almost impossible to get through unless you devote 100% of your spare time to them. Trust me, I've been to almost every type of school there is here. Which was socially interesting btw.

 

Homeschooling - good or bad. That's like asking streets - good or bad. Depends on the parent's education, social skills, motives, amount of "spare" time, the kid him-/herself etc.

 

The most beloved negative homeschooling stereotypes are of course the fundamentalist christians taking their kids out of school in order to keep them indoctrinated, the smart but socially unskilled parents who wish to keep their kid from harm and poor families who just don't care about their kids' education.

 

Generally speaking I'd say that unless both the parents and kids are really suitable (smart enough, social interaction besides homeschooling etc.) public school beats homeschooling, but I'm not sure if that's true for the US of A - they don't seem too happy with their public schools.

[EscoLehGo]

 

Hm. What is it with the flamebait threads here? Is the off topic section actually the "bash each others heads in, noone's looking" section? If so I approve.

 

School is not about what you learn, it's about learning to learn in a way that actually works for you specifically and learning the basics of social interaction.

 

How much of the crap you learned in school 10 years ago do you still remember? How much knowledge have you gained since then?

 

Around here private schools aren't worth jack sh*t, parents usually buy their kids' grades.

 

Public schools here range from so-easy-any-retard-could-teach-there (and they do) to almost impossible to get through unless you devote 100% of your spare time to them. Trust me, I've been to almost every type of school there is here. Which was socially interesting btw.

 

Homeschooling - good or bad. That's like asking streets - good or bad. Depends on the parent's education, social skills, motives, amount of "spare" time, the kid him-/herself etc.

 

The most beloved negative homeschooling stereotypes are of course the fundamentalist christians taking their kids out of school in order to keep them indoctrinated, the smart but socially unskilled parents who wish to keep their kid from harm and poor families who just don't care about their kids' education.

 

Generally speaking I'd say that unless both the parents and kids are really suitable (smart enough, social interaction besides homeschooling etc.) public school beats homeschooling, but I'm not sure if that's true for the US of A - they don't seem too happy with their public schools.

I resent that you're accusing me of flamebaiting, I'm inviting discussion about a topic I thought would be interesting. I guess I could have made a "How much do you weigh?" thread and it would have been more to your liking but thankfully you don't supervise the topics I create.

[Belaphron]

Parents have every right to take their children out of the terrible public schools. The whole schooling system should be privatized and people be given more choice where they send their kids.

Right, because education isn't a service based on societal requirement, it's a commodity.

And what is the problem with it being a commodity? If the kids are getting a good education why does it matter?

[trip]

Parents have every right to take their children out of the terrible public schools. The whole schooling system should be privatized and people be given more choice where they send their kids.

Right, because education isn't a service based on societal requirement, it's a commodity.

And what is the problem with it being a commodity? If the kids are getting a good education why does it matter?

They tried it here in Philadelphia and it isn't working so well.

 

We have Charter schools. Elect to to send your child to a private run institution. They aren't regulated by standard state curriculum and required benchmarks, nor do they fall within the district and its policies. They have turned out to be for profit centers that pretty much abuse the government money they are granted. In a way they are like day care for teenagers.

 

Private schools are fine and dandy(I sampled two myself when I was in HS), but they all cost money and not every family could afford to send their child to school.

 

 

[Belaphron]

Parents have every right to take their children out of the terrible public schools. The whole schooling system should be privatized and people be given more choice where they send their kids.

Right, because education isn't a service based on societal requirement, it's a commodity.

And what is the problem with it being a commodity? If the kids are getting a good education why does it matter?

They tried it here in Philadelphia and it isn't working so well.

 

We have Charter schools. Elect to to send your child to a private run institution. They aren't regulated by standard state curriculum and required benchmarks, nor do they fall within the district and its policies. They have turned out to be for profit centers that pretty much abuse the government money they are granted. In a way they are like day care for teenagers.

 

Private schools are fine and dandy(I sampled two myself when I was in HS), but they all cost money and not every family could afford to send their child to school.

They shouldn't be granted government money, they should be paid for by the person. Some school districts actual per pupil spending was over double what they stated, one district spends over 25,000 per pupil, they could just give parents that money to pay for a much better education than what the public schools provide. The reason why people can't afford it is because they are forced into paying for the terrible public schools we have.

[sivispacem]

 

Parents have every right to take their children out of the terrible public schools. The whole schooling system should be privatized and people be given more choice where they send their kids.

Right, because education isn't a service based on societal requirement, it's a commodity.

And what is the problem with it being a commodity? If the kids are getting a good education why does it matter?

Because the only reason that private education is good is because it has to compete with the public sector. That drives up quality as there needs to be a reason for people to make additional outlay. If all of it is private, then you lose the incentive and it becomes a race to the bottom. Then you end up with a system where the wealthy can buy the best education possible, and the poorest still need to splash out huge amounts on a poor education because the primary incentive is profit instead of actual education.

[Belaphron]

Parents have every right to take their children out of the terrible public schools. The whole schooling system should be privatized and people be given more choice where they send their kids.

Right, because education isn't a service based on societal requirement, it's a commodity.

And what is the problem with it being a commodity? If the kids are getting a good education why does it matter?

Because the only reason that private education is good is because it has to compete with the public sector. That drives up quality as there needs to be a reason for people to make additional outlay. If all of it is private, then you lose the incentive and it becomes a race to the bottom. Then you end up with a system where the wealthy can buy the best education possible, and the poorest still need to splash out huge amounts on a poor education because the primary incentive is profit instead of actual education.

Hmm that does make sense. But couldn't the profit incentive be enough to ensure they provide a good education? So like if they are not up to scratch less people enroll their kids so their is less profit, also private schools can raise funds from donations from wealthy ex students, wouldn't it be in their best interest to provide the best they can?

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

 

 

Private schools are fine and dandy(I sampled two myself when I was in HS), but they all cost money and not every family could afford to send their child to school.

The Truth

This is the problem with our mentality though. Public schools cost money too. Whenever Americans are too sheltered from the direct cost of education, they take it for granted or see it as an entitlement measured in terms of cash. This financially self destructive mentality is another reason why public college education costs will continue to skyrocket. Less of it is being subsidized by the states who are now in budget crunch just like the federal government. The problem is far beyond funding.

 

For one, look at the well-performing students in China and India, and then try to tell me they have more money per school than the US. How politics really works, is each lump sum of money for "investing in education" doesn't go towards fixing the mentality of the parents who raise the kids, the media influences on the students, discipline, motivation, or anything else too relevant. It really goes towards more advanced technology in the classrooms like smart boards and computers, a sprinkling of money to the whining teachers (who still receive the most competitive salaries in the world), renovations, new books/equipment (a good use), and a new program or two that will be underfunded in a matter of years. Why? Well the whole education system is run by government bodies who are greatly insulated from the problem since they send their kids to private schools or wealthy public schools, and the cut-throat teachers unions whose main aim is money for their members while the parents continue to disengage themselves. The parents think that committing (tax) dollars is enough when it's really not. Dollars just serve as the catalyst to keep this sh*t cycle going. The educational system remains poorly integrated with sustainable financial management and basic economics; that's the real problem. And how the f*ck is economics an "elective"? Not just as a nation, but globally we should be breeding more economists right now as we speak.

 

 

 

 

 

*After spending the majority of my childhood in the state of Texas, I can say the education system there is ideal in some respects. It's not the best in terms of performance since they have to average in the lazy suburban kids and the "under-serviced" - rednecks, the 'hoods', Native Americans, and the immigrants adapting to a new country. However, for now we should look at it more from a structural perspective than a performance perspective since the best performing states in America fool the rest of the nation into thinking they have superior systems when the largest factor in academic performance is actually the demographics. In reality, the "best states" for education are only the best states because they are generally composed of privileged whites -top 5: Connecticut, New Hampshire, Vermont, New Jersey, Massachusetts. It's actually how we handle the under-serviced demographics that decides the effectiveness of our system.

 

In Texas, there are no income state taxes. Instead, people pay relatively high property and sales taxes that generally correspond to the affluence in a given area. Within each county, there are several ISD's (independent school districts) who collect a good amount of this money and spend it where they see fit. More resources are in the hands of the actual people instead of the government this way so they are also in a position to supplement any deficiencies if they see fit. Some would say this leads to money getting tied up in the schools for the rich, but in reality it keeps education a local initiative regardless of affluence. In the end, the community around the school will always know what's best for that school. Not some politician sitting before a mahogany desk (even if he/she has good intentions). This also addresses the reality that it's our job to give a sh*t about our schools. If people want nice schools in their area, they have to work for them + receive help from the state after proving they are willing to improve the schools. It's pretty simple if you ask me.

Edited February 20, 2013 by canttakemyid

[sivispacem]

Because education systems are expensive and time consuming to set up. You'll end up with a segmented monopoly, which in itself is bad, but made worse by the fact that would stifle competition. You can't very well go and set up a competitor school without a huge financial backing, which means interest based groups would struggle. Basically the reason that education in Europe is on the whole drastically better than in the US is because of the near complete absence of private education in the mainstream. In the US it has forced out decent publicly funded education and replaced it with a combination of expensive and mediocre private education and mental fundamentalist sects.

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

 

Because education systems are expensive and time consuming to set up. You'll end up with a segmented monopoly, which in itself is bad, but made worse by the fact that would stifle competition. You can't very well go and set up a competitor school without a huge financial backing, which means interest based groups would struggle. Basically the reason that education in Europe is on the whole drastically better than in the US is because of the near complete absence of private education in the mainstream. In the US it has forced out decent publicly funded education and replaced it with a combination of expensive and mediocre private education and mental fundamentalist sects.

I would disagree with your diagnosis that private schools causing poorly funded education in America is what makes Europe's system "better". The problem is beyond funding (look at Asian schools). I believe Europe's system (assuming everyone there has the same system) is superior mainly because education is valued more by the parents. Europeans kept their eye on the ball.

 

We simply don't focus on education as much as we should here in the US. Everyone in the US wants to have educated kids, but they don't want to pay for it. Not just with money, but mainly with time. We have become a culture with a well-developed economy that allows us to throw money at virtually every problem. Only now, it takes a little more than just money. In the US, families are spoiled and distracted by a materialistic culture. As a result, the parents are overworked and largely disengaged from what grades Sally gets on her report card.

Edited February 20, 2013 by canttakemyid

[K^2]

 

Unless one of your parents has  Ph.D. in a hard science or engineering, and the other in humanities (art, history, literature...) you are not going to get an education while home schooled.

You need to possess the necessary knowledge in order to teach effectively. That's why we have professional teachers and professors.

You don't get a Ph.D. without getting a good deal of experience in teaching. Not this side of the pond, anyhow.

[Creed Bratton]

 

Unless one of your parents has  Ph.D. in a hard science or engineering, and the other in humanities (art, history, literature...) you are not going to get an education while home schooled.

You need to possess the necessary knowledge in order to teach effectively. That's why we have professional teachers and professors.

You don't get a Ph.D. without getting a good deal of experience in teaching. Not this side of the pond, anyhow.

I know. I wasn't disagreeing with you. I just forgot to add that I was about to say the same thing.

Edited February 21, 2013 by GTAvanja

[Clem Fandango]

Because education systems are expensive and time consuming to set up. You'll end up with a segmented monopoly, which in itself is bad, but made worse by the fact that would stifle competition. You can't very well go and set up a competitor school without a huge financial backing, which means interest based groups would struggle. Basically the reason that education in Europe is on the whole drastically better than in the US is because of the near complete absence of private education in the mainstream. In the US it has forced out decent publicly funded education and replaced it with a combination of expensive and mediocre private education and mental fundamentalist sects.

I would disagree with your diagnosis that private schools causing poorly funded education in America is what makes Europe's system "better". The problem is beyond funding (look at Asian schools). I believe Europe's system (assuming everyone there has the same system) is superior mainly because education is valued more by the parents. Europeans kept their eye on the ball.

 

We simply don't focus on education as much as we should here in the US. Everyone in the US wants to have educated kids, but they don't want to pay for it. Not just with money, but mainly with time. We have become a culture with a well-developed economy that allows us to throw money at virtually every problem. Only now, it takes a little more than just money. In the US, families are spoiled and distracted by a materialistic culture. As a result, the parents are overworked and largely disengaged from what grades Sally gets on her report card.

I think private education definitely plays a role, though. Australian's have a similar approach to education as people in Europe, but we also have a huge problem with private education. Here's a brief history lesson: once upon a time Australia was completely white. Back then, white didn't mean "from Europe" it meant "from the British Isles" so Australia was incredibly homogeneous, the closest thing we had to a minority were the catholics, and rather than throw them into school with the protestants, the government subsidised private education, so the church could set up its own schools. That process continues today, meaning private schools are largely affordable to the upper middle class, so imagine what sivis was talking about in America, only much worse. Public education is really suffering down here.

 

 

Unless one of your parents has  Ph.D. in a hard science or engineering, and the other in humanities (art, history, literature...) you are not going to get an education while home schooled.

You need to possess the necessary knowledge in order to teach effectively. That's why we have professional teachers and professors.

You don't get a Ph.D. without getting a good deal of experience in teaching. Not this side of the pond, anyhow.

I disagree, you might speak infront of some uni kids who are specifically there to here you talk, but you wouldn't know how to engage a student.

 

 

Hmm that does make sense. But couldn't the profit incentive be enough to ensure they provide a good education? So like if they are not up to scratch less people enroll their kids so their is less profit, also private schools can raise funds from donations from wealthy ex students, wouldn't it be in their best interest to provide the best they can?

So basically you want to completely remove control of the education process from the community, and hand it over to market forces? And this is assuming it is successful- I imagine this Libertarian vision of private sector-reliance education involves four or five schools setting up in a district all competing with each other to provide the best for their students, but that doesn't seem likely: more likey than not the money for each school would come from one or two sources (like the church).

[MostOfAll]

Sometimes I believe kids should be shielded from all the bullsh*t happening in reality. Regular school just brainwashes them into thinking people are different based on their races, sexual orientations, physical appearances, etc. It's messed up, really. I hate it when people say, "Welcome to the real world." What the hell was I living in all these years, huh?

[Max]

Sometimes I believe kids should be shielded from all the bullsh*t happening in reality. Regular school just brainwashes them into thinking people are different based on their races, sexual orientations, physical appearances, etc. It's messed up, really. I hate it when people say, "Welcome to the real world." What the hell was I living in all these years, huh?

I think school does completely the opposite.

 

The average family has a fairly limited cultural and philosophical gene pool, so to speak. By home schooling a child you are essentially only exposing them to the beliefs and opinions of the parents. The school system may not provide each student with the individual attention that home schooling does, but it gives the child exposure to far more cultures, sexual orientations and physical appearances than all but the most cosmopolitan family.

 

Ignorance is often what leads to prejudice. School provides an opportunity for children to move away from the collective ignorance of a single family unit.

[MostOfAll]

Sometimes I believe kids should be shielded from all the bullsh*t happening in reality. Regular school just brainwashes them into thinking people are different based on their races, sexual orientations, physical appearances, etc. It's messed up, really. I hate it when people say, "Welcome to the real world." What the hell was I living in all these years, huh?

I think school does completely the opposite.

 

The average family has a fairly limited cultural and philosophical gene pool, so to speak. By home schooling a child you are essentially only exposing them to the beliefs and opinions of the parents. The school system may not provide each student with the individual attention that home schooling does, but it gives the child exposure to far more cultures, sexual orientations and physical appearances than all but the most cosmopolitan family.

 

Ignorance is often what leads to prejudice. School provides an opportunity for children to move away from the collective ignorance of a single family unit.

I agree with you on this. It really just depends on what the child does and how he or she looks at things. School can be great if the student is open-minded.