Franklin = Luis?

[Seenyour31]

Are we really arguing about the race/ethnicity of a video game character? I think all 3 will bring something unique and fun to the story, and if you're not fond of a particular protagonist you have 2 others to play as (except during the times R* locks you in to a certain protag during certain segments of missions). What's next debating their possible political views or religious affiliation?

[Clem Fandango]

I don't see any real resemblance between Franklin and Luis. Franklin doesn't come across as an arrogant douchebag.

Only because you haven't heard him say more than one sentence...

I almost guarantee he wont irritate me as much as Luis. Though I pretty much hate Luis so he's gotta be better. Can't be much worse.

I'll never understand the Luis hate, best protagonist yet IMO. All the GTA protagonists are kind of arrogant knobs, but at least Luis has a modern mindset, discernible goals, was relatable and wasn't an overly gruff and cynical male fantasy.

[Algonquin Assassin]

 

I don't see any real resemblance between Franklin and Luis. Franklin doesn't come across as an arrogant douchebag.

Only because you haven't heard him say more than one sentence...

I almost guarantee he wont irritate me as much as Luis. Though I pretty much hate Luis so he's gotta be better. Can't be much worse.

I'll never understand the Luis hate, best protagonist yet IMO. All the GTA protagonists are kind of arrogant knobs, but at least Luis has a modern mindset, discernible goals, was relatable and wasn't an overly gruff and cynical male fantasy.

I never found him that relatable. Maybe if he came first before Niko and Johnny I may have changed my mind, but he didn't feel anywhere near as interesting as Niko and Johnny were.

[AceRay]

I don't see any real resemblance between Franklin and Luis. Franklin doesn't come across as an arrogant douchebag.

Only because you haven't heard him say more than one sentence...

I almost guarantee he wont irritate me as much as Luis. Though I pretty much hate Luis so he's gotta be better. Can't be much worse.

I'll never understand the Luis hate, best protagonist yet IMO. All the GTA protagonists are kind of arrogant knobs, but at least Luis has a modern mindset, discernible goals, was relatable and wasn't an overly gruff and cynical male fantasy.

I never found him that relatable. Maybe if he came first before Niko and Johnny I may have changed my mind, but he didn't feel anywhere near as interesting as Niko and Johnny were.

Luis was relateable and isn't arrogant?

 

Did you play the same game as me?

[Clem Fandango]

I don't see any real resemblance between Franklin and Luis. Franklin doesn't come across as an arrogant douchebag.

Only because you haven't heard him say more than one sentence...

I almost guarantee he wont irritate me as much as Luis. Though I pretty much hate Luis so he's gotta be better. Can't be much worse.

I'll never understand the Luis hate, best protagonist yet IMO. All the GTA protagonists are kind of arrogant knobs, but at least Luis has a modern mindset, discernible goals, was relatable and wasn't an overly gruff and cynical male fantasy.

I never found him that relatable. Maybe if he came first before Niko and Johnny I may have changed my mind, but he didn't feel anywhere near as interesting as Niko and Johnny were.

He was relatable in that his goals were understandable, you actually cared about the characters around him (Tony at least), which is more than you can say for Packie and Roman and most importantly in my opinion, you actually felt like you were playing as him even when you were causing havoc: even when you're running over hot dog vendors with your sports car or landing on people with your parachute, you still felt like you were Luis, unlike Niko- whenever I went on a rampage or did a stunt jump I completely forgot I was even playing as a character with a story.

 

"I want to get away from all this killing Roman, I want to settle down" cue me running over an old lady and ramping my car off a flight of stone steps.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Luis' story and personality didn't contradict the gameplay, the entire GTA universe is a parody of the modern condition, and Luis' over the top story definitely felt like a comedy; Typhus said it best when he talked about how jarring the end of Niko's story was when it panned out to the silly looking statue of happiness, a serious tale of revenge and redemption just doesn't belong pinned against a backdrop of seething wit and comedic social commentary. There was nothing even slightly unbelievable about Luis doing crazy things. I think this was achieved though his minimal, mostly reactive dialogue and his generally flippant attitude. Point is, it does wonders for the story when you step into a mission after a rampage and don't feel like you're shifting into story mode, you feel like you never left the story to begin with.

 

That's the primary reason anyway, the other things I mentioned are important as well: playing as someone young and modern who actually seems like he was raised in the crazy world of GTA while still floating above it all so you feel connected to him, rather than playing as the one millionth John Wanye derived character whose gruff brand of masculinity doesn't exist in anyone born after 1980.

 

tl;dr Luis is a more appropriate GTA protagonist, and his story had no disconnect from the setting, humour and gameplay.

[Algonquin Assassin]

 

you still felt like you were Luis, unlike Niko- whenever I went on a rampage or did a stunt jump I completely forgot I was even playing as a character with a story.

 

"I want to get away from all this killing Roman, I want to settle down" cue me running over an old lady and ramping my car off a flight of stone steps.

 

Speak for yourself. I never felt any disconnection with Niko like that.

 

Anyway I've always felt Luis' role in TBOGT is so blank he could be replaced by anyone else the tone of the story would never change because it's more about Tony than Luis himself.

 

I just don't find him all that interesting. Give me gruff and cynical anyday.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Miamivicecity

[Clem Fandango]

 

you still felt like you were Luis, unlike Niko- whenever I went on a rampage or did a stunt jump I completely forgot I was even playing as a character with a story.

 

"I want to get away from all this killing Roman, I want to settle down" cue me running over an old lady and ramping my car off a flight of stone steps.

 

Speak for yourself. I never felt any disconnection with Niko like that.

Don't get me wrong, while you might feel connected to him (and I'm sure many others do), GTAIV was a comedic parody of the modern condition. If the setting, humour and overall message is one of comedic criticism, and the protagonist and his story focus on a not-at-all-unrealistic-or-funny theme of revenge, personal growth and redemption- or a very poignant and powerful lack thereof- there's an unambiguous clash. When I'm cruising around causing havoc, listening to the radio and looking at the statue of happiness I feel like I'm playing one game, and when I'm listening to Niko and Pegorino have a conversation, I'm playing another, and the former strongly undermines and latter.

 

Since the setting (the "world" of GTA, which encompasses the radio, peds, scenery etc.) is the focal point of the game, the protagonist and story should mesh with it, otherwise they tend only to weaken the message of the work. I mean, you can't honestly tell me you were thinking about Niko's struggles with his past while you were driving an infernus and launching a sweet jump onto a highway and listening to an "America's Next Top Hooker" commercial. Now, if you remove Niko and Luis from GTA and judge them on their personalities, Niko is unequivocally more interesting and relatable (which is pretty obvious- Luis barely even had any dialogue), but the fact that Luis fits perfectly with the world and humour means you experience the aforementioned and cause mayhem as Luis thus you care more about him and his story.

 

There's a reason Luis came last out of the three, Rockstar learned from their mistake and decided to save their serious narrative approach for Red Dead and other franchises, while coopting a more appropriate protagonist for TBoGT. It looks like it'll be similar fare for GTAV as well.

 

 

Anyway I've always felt Luis' role in TBOGT is so blank he could be replaced by anyone else the tone of the story would never change because it's more about Tony than Luis himself.

I think in this regard they perfectly straddled the line between player avatar and interesting character, with an appropriate prioritising of the former.

 

 

Give me gruff and cynical anyday.

Doesn't exactly fit in with a parody of the modern world though, does it? Like I said, people like that just don't exist any more, and if they do, they aren't running nightclubs and interacting in a high capacity.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Melchior

[Algonquin Assassin]

you still felt like you were Luis, unlike Niko- whenever I went on a rampage or did a stunt jump I completely forgot I was even playing as a character with a story.

 

"I want to get away from all this killing Roman, I want to settle down" cue me running over an old lady and ramping my car off a flight of stone steps.

 

Speak for yourself. I never felt any disconnection with Niko like that.

Don't get me wrong, while you might feel connected to him (and I'm sure many others do), GTAIV was a comedic parody of the modern condition. If the setting, humour and overall message is one of comedic criticism, and the protagonist and his story focus on a not-at-all-unrealistic-or-funny theme of revenge, personal growth and redemption- or a very poignant and powerful lack thereof- there's an unambiguous clash. When I'm cruising around causing havoc, listening to the radio and looking at the statue of happiness I feel like I'm playing one game, and when I'm listening to Niko and Pegorino have a conversation, I'm playing another, and the former strongly undermines and latter.

 

Since the setting (the "world" of GTA, which encompasses the radio, peds, scenery etc.) is the focal point of the game, the protagonist and story should mesh with it, otherwise they tend only to weaken the message of the work. I mean, you can't honestly tell me you were thinking about Niko's struggles with his past while you were driving an infernus and launching a sweet jump onto a highway and listening to an "America's Next Top Hooker" commercial. Now, if you remove Niko and Luis from GTA and judge them on their personalities, Niko is unequivocally more interesting and relatable (which is pretty obvious- Luis barely even had any dialogue), but the fact that Luis fits perfectly with the world and humour means you experience the aforementioned and cause mayhem as Luis thus you care more about him and his story.

 

There's a reason Luis came last out of the three, Rockstar learned from their mistake and decided to save their serious narrative approach for Red Dead and other franchises, while coopting a more appropriate protagonist for TBoGT. It looks like it'll be similar fare for GTAV as well.

 

 

Anyway I've always felt Luis' role in TBOGT is so blank he could be replaced by anyone else the tone of the story would never change because it's more about Tony than Luis himself.

I think in this regard they perfectly straddled the line between player avatar and interesting character, with an appropriate prioritising of the former.

 

 

Give me gruff and cynical anyday.

Doesn't exactly fit in with a parody of the modern world though, does it? Like I said, people like that just don't exist any more, and if they do, they aren't running nightclubs and interacting in a high capacity.

Look I see what you're saying. I actually appreciate the intelligent reasoning, but the guy simply does nothing for me. Never has and likely never will.

[HaythamKenway]

 

Don't get me wrong, while you might feel connected to him (and I'm sure many others do), GTAIV was a comedic parody of the modern condition. If the setting, humour and overall message is one of comedic criticism, and the protagonist and his story focus on a not-at-all-unrealistic-or-funny theme of revenge, personal growth and redemption- or a very poignant and powerful lack thereof- there's an unambiguous clash. When I'm cruising around causing havoc, listening to the radio and looking at the statue of happiness I feel like I'm playing one game, and when I'm listening to Niko and Pegorino have a conversation, I'm playing another, and the former strongly undermines and latter.

 

Since the setting (the "world" of GTA, which encompasses the radio, peds, scenery etc.) is the focal point of the game, the protagonist and story should mesh with it, otherwise they tend only to weaken the message of the work. I mean, you can't honestly tell me you were thinking about Niko's struggles with his past while you were driving an infernus and launching a sweet jump onto a highway and listening to an "America's Next Top Hooker" commercial.

Gameplay and story segregation. I don't consider what protagonists do outside of missions as canon. And I don't think funny billboards and radio talk breaks IV's tone that much. But that are just my personal feelings.

 

 

Doesn't exactly fit in with a parody of the modern world though, does it? Like I said, people like that just don't exist any more, and if they do, they aren't running nightclubs and interacting in a high capacity.

 

You can do a serious and gritty story about people living "the high life" too. Tony himself was pretty serious character. He would fit in vanilla IV too.

[FrankieP]

Luis was such a bad stereotype really. The most cliché character of all. The way he talked, dressed, his Cole Phelps morality combined with a defunct intelligence.

[Baseball]

Luis was such a bad stereotype really. The most cliché character of all. The way he talked, dressed, his Cole Phelps morality combined with a defunct intelligence.

How would you like him to talk? A lot of african-dominicans talk like that. And his clothes were normal and simple. White sneakers, jeans, white shirt and a black jacket with white sleeves.

[Clem Fandango]

Gameplay and story segregation. I don't consider what protagonists do outside of missions as canon.

Combining the two is definitely a positive thing.

 

 

And I don't think funny billboards and radio talk breaks IV's tone that much. But that are just my personal feelings.

But the funny billboards and radio talk aren't a bit of humour thrown on top of the story for fun, they're the focal point of the entire series. Rockstar took and important step with TBoGT in combining it with the story.

[golf wang]

Are people on this forum really that ignorant? YES, Luis is black. Hispanics can be any race, Hispanic is an ethnicity. There are white Hispanics (Argentina, Uruguay), black Hispanics (Colombia, Panama, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic), and Asian Hispanics (Peru). History lesson- the Europeans brought African slaves to the Caribbean, which is why many Cubans, Dominicans, and Colombians are black. Hispanics are of all colors.

[PlaystationGamer266]

lol

[GtaVComments]

I didnt really like Luis. He was too laid back for a black guy in LC (no racist) Franklin already appeals to me more.

[THEMANatwar]

yes of course yes, all black people looks and are the same, 2 years ago I met a black guy and he said he likes basketball then this year I met another black guy and he said the same thing

That is hilarious.

[TheFIREFLY]

racists, racists everywhere.

[(Yakuza)]

Id rather have luis be the protag to be honest

[latigreblue]

Luis does not give H and A grief because he's being hypocritical or looking down on them. He is quite protective of them and when he quarrels with them it's always to tell them that they haven't carefully thought out what they were doing - that they took on high risk jobs that were not worth the effort. He also told them that they needed to think bigger than just hustling on the the corners. Also, I never got the impression that he was stupid.

 

It's really weird but considering that all main characters, with the exception of Victor, had criminal backgrounds, I noticed that when a lot of posters talk about the criminality of protagonists, but there's always such vitriol when discussing the non-white protagonists in comparison to the white protagonists.

[CJ4LIFE1294]

Am I the only one who thinks like that? I mean, from what we've seen Franklin look the same damn thing, physically & mentally. From what we saw in trailer #2, all we could see is Franklin crying about the fact that his homie is selling dope & throwing up gang signs + he's arguing with his girlfriend just like Luis was doing with his mom. (And his brother/her sister Online)

 

I'm not trying to be pessimist, I'm sure I'll be a huge Franklin fan, but from what I saw/read lately it's looking like we're going to have a Luis #2.

 

What do you think?

are you a racist

[Getzmunney]

Luis does not give H and A grief because he's being hypocritical or looking down on them. He is quite protective of them and when he quarrels with them it's always to tell them that they haven't carefully thought out what they were doing - that they took on high risk jobs that were not worth the effort. He also told them that they needed to think bigger than just hustling on the the corners. Also, I never got the impression that he was stupid.

 

It's really weird but considering that all main characters, with the exception of Victor, had criminal backgrounds, I noticed that when a lot of posters talk about the criminality of protagonists, but there's always such vitriol when discussing the non-white protagonists in comparison to the white protagonists.

Yup.. and you know why. Gta forums

[K-Malo94]

 

Luis was such a bad stereotype really. The most cliché character of all. The way he talked, dressed, his Cole Phelps morality combined with a defunct intelligence.

Oh were you expecting him to act and dress like Niko or Johnny? In case you don't know thats how most East Coast Latinos talk and dress. that doesn't mean we have no character. And what was wrong with his intelligence? are you saying he was dumb? please explain.

[Gtaman_92]

Luis was just a major hot headed hypocrite and a complainer to me, I didn't like his vibe at all. From what I seen in the trailer, I think Franklin will be more laid back and he will do everything his way unlike Luis who kiss gay tony's ass all the time and was always angry.

[Honest Bill]

One of the reasons i disliked Luis, was because of the way he allowed his friends to treat him.. The guy went to prison for them and all throughout the missions with them one of them (can't remember which, the slightly less dumb one Henrique i think) treats him like a total bitch, cusses him out and tricks him in to getting in to serious drug deals, despite Luis having already told him he didn't want to do that anymore, and he just takes it throughout the entire story.

 

That's what pisses me off about him the most, they don't give the player agency to do what they want, which in my case was dump that mouthy, abrasive c*nt in the Hudson river. And they force you in to a linear story. That would be ok in itself, but the characters actions are always completely at odds with what he is actually doing.

 

Stop giving us protagonists who don't want to be f*cking criminals.. It's a crime game, it's about criminals, we all buy it because we want to participate in the crime. I don't want to go legit and work nightclubs, and i don't want to settle down with some deranged bitch to whom i couldn't even forge a single connection

 

Save these repentant characters for other games.. Having a character in GTA who spends all his time wanting to go straight, is completely at odds with why i put the disc in in the first place, breaks my immersion and completely shatters any connection with the character. Well for me it does at least.

 

And don't try to convince me that i like or have any emotional attachment to characters who are totally unlikable and spend the entire game treating me like i'm a complete c*nt.. All i want to do is shoot these f*ckers

 

"i LOVE YOU H"

 

No i f*cking don't, i can't stand the piece of sh*t and hope he dies...

[Getzmunney]

 

One of the reasons i disliked Luis, was because of the way he allowed his friends to treat him.. The guy went to prison for them and all throughout the missions with them one of them (can't remember which, the slightly less dumb one Henrique i think) treats him like a total bitch, cusses him out and tricks him in to getting in to serious drug deals, despite Luis having already told him he didn't want to do that anymore, and he just takes it throughout the entire story.

 

That's what pisses me off about him the most, they don't give the player agency to do what they want, which in my case was dump that mouthy, abrasive c*nt in the Hudson river. And they force you in to a linear story. That would be ok in itself, but the characters actions are always completely at odds with what he is actually doing.

 

Stop giving us protagonists who don't want to be f*cking criminals.. It's a crime game, it's about criminals, we all buy it because we want to participate in the crime. I don't want to go legit and work nightclubs, and i don't want to settle down with some deranged bitch to whom i couldn't even forge a single connection

 

Save these repentant characters for other games.. Having a character in GTA who spends all his time wanting to go straight, is completely at odds with why i put the disc in in the first place, breaks my immersion and completely shatters any connection with the character. Well for me it does at least.

 

And don't try to convince me that i like or have any emotional attachment to characters who are totally unlikable and spend the entire game treating me like i'm a complete c*nt.. All i want to do is shoot these f*ckers

 

"i LOVE YOU H"

 

No i f*cking don't, i can't stand the piece of sh*t and hope he dies...

cues scene "enters trevor"

[Honest Bill]

cues scene "enters trevor"

Haha. Yes exactly.

 

As soon as i read about Trevor in the GI article, i was happy. Rockstar had acknowledged this and given me the character i'd always wanted.

 

It seems that even Michael will be completely amoral which is a perfect trait for a GTA protagonist.

 

I hope Franklin will be totally ruthless too, just waiting for more info on him

[Akaviri]

 

One of the reasons i disliked Luis, was because of the way he allowed his friends to treat him.. The guy went to prison for them and all throughout the missions with them one of them (can't remember which, the slightly less dumb one Henrique i think) treats him like a total bitch, cusses him out and tricks him in to getting in to serious drug deals, despite Luis having already told him he didn't want to do that anymore, and he just takes it throughout the entire story.

 

That's what pisses me off about him the most, they don't give the player agency to do what they want, which in my case was dump that mouthy, abrasive c*nt in the Hudson river. And they force you in to a linear story. That would be ok in itself, but the characters actions are always completely at odds with what he is actually doing.

 

Stop giving us protagonists who don't want to be f*cking criminals.. It's a crime game, it's about criminals, we all buy it because we want to participate in the crime. I don't want to go legit and work nightclubs, and i don't want to settle down with some deranged bitch to whom i couldn't even forge a single connection

 

Save these repentant characters for other games.. Having a character in GTA who spends all his time wanting to go straight, is completely at odds with why i put the disc in in the first place, breaks my immersion and completely shatters any connection with the character. Well for me it does at least.

 

And don't try to convince me that i like or have any emotional attachment to characters who are totally unlikable and spend the entire game treating me like i'm a complete c*nt.. All i want to do is shoot these f*ckers

 

"i LOVE YOU H"

 

No i f*cking don't, i can't stand the piece of sh*t and hope he dies...

f*cking amen, brother. I want to see some real choices and freedom in the story, and not the illusion of choice with killing or sparing some insignificant person. If I don't want to work for a guy, I shouldn't have to. Unless there's some string attached, like I owe the guy money or something, we should be able to double cross and kill and act like any high class criminal. It probably won't happen in V, but I hope to see a completely interactive storyline at some point in GTA.

 

Play the Walking Dead game by Telltale Games, they created a story that is completely influenced by the player actions. To give GTA the feel of really being on your own in a vicious criminal underworld, we should have the freedom to choose who to trust and who to kill, the ability to make and break alliances and screw people over to get a leg up on the others. It should really emulate the dog-eat-dog mentality of everything.

[GTA-King]

cues scene "enters trevor"

Haha. Yes exactly.

 

As soon as i read about Trevor in the GI article, i was happy. Rockstar had acknowledged this and given me the character i'd always wanted.

 

It seems that even Michael will be completely amoral which is a perfect trait for a GTA protagonist.

 

I hope Franklin will be totally ruthless too, just waiting for more info on him

The difference between Michael & Trevor is that one is a sociopath (Michael) and the other is a psychopath (Trevor). As for Franklin, I think he will be the balance of those 2 traits.

[LuisBellic]

I think Micheal, Trevor, and Franklin, are the equivilents to Niko, Johnny, and Luis. I just hope Franklin doesn't act like a pussy like Luis.

[GTA-King]

I think Micheal, Trevor, and Franklin, are the equivilents to Niko, Johnny, and Luis. I just hope Franklin doesn't act like a pussy like Luis.

Actually, I think they are the reincarnations of Claude (Trevor), Tommy (Michael), and CJ (Franklin)... but that's just my opinion.