Manhunt for ex-cop

[Clem Fandango]

I thought it was accepted by pretty much everyone who isn't a militia sympathiser that though the FBI's behaviour at Waco was hardly fitting of a federal agency, all evidence points to the fact that the fatal fires were started internally with accelerants by the Branch Davidians? Logically wouldn't it be quite difficult for the FBI to pour accelerant in buildings they had no direct or indirect access to and couldn't even fire 40mm CS grenades into?

Wasn't there video of the feds shooting something into the building though? Forget the details; something about a SWAT tank?

They used an armoured vehicle to pump CS gas in, but CS gas is not pyrophoric or even flammable. The video of things being shot is of 40mm CS gas grenades. Some were pyrotechnic, most weren't, none managed to enter the concrete bunker area where one of the fires started. There are also audio recordings of the Davidians discussing pouring accelerant inside their buildings. The most suspicious element of the whole thing is the carelessness in continuing to pump CS into the building even while it was burning, as CS decomposed into nasty poisonous compounds when exposed to extreme heat.

Is this not directly akin to blasting fire into a building though? It goes a bit beyond negligence when you know a building is burning down and you know you're pumping flammable compounds into a building- I believe the video shows some of the gas igniting as soon as it passes through the door. Also am I the only one who remembers there were children in the building- pumping gas in, flammable or not, and spraying the house with bulltes should have been completely unthinkable in that scenario. I suppose my point is that there is historical precedence of law enforcement hugely over stepping their bounds in cases such as this.

 

While they are allowed to kill (and in some cases are required to) burning down civilian property when there was no longer even a shoot out going on is something that should be condemned, not explained away. The thing that's most disturbing about things like this is that we seem to appoint cops as judge, jury and executioner when the perp receives very little sympathy from the wider populace. Imagine we aren't discussing religious fanatics or mentally unstable cop-killers, but a white collar criminal. Let's say some financial consultant was facing life imprisonment for fraud and decided to run into some random house and try to fend off the cops with his gun, then they shot and wounded him, and as he lay in a pool of his own blood, the cops set fire to his house. Don't try and tell me their wouldn't be some degree of public outcry.

 

Let's not forget that this is all following an outright assault on random civilians which was more or less swept under the rug by the higher ups. Why the American government isn't pouring millions into investigations, indictments and reform is beyond me, America is obviously a country where the police are even more out of control than in the rest of the western world, and there's an even greater hatred of police in America. This should be a catalyst to a complete overhaul of American law enforcement.

[Raavi]

The Manhunt is over. The guy is confirmed death, his remains are identified. Life in the LAPD is back to normal again.

[DarrinPA]

 

I thought it was accepted by pretty much everyone who isn't a militia sympathiser that though the FBI's behaviour at Waco was hardly fitting of a federal agency, all evidence points to the fact that the fatal fires were started internally with accelerants by the Branch Davidians? Logically wouldn't it be quite difficult for the FBI to pour accelerant in buildings they had no direct or indirect access to and couldn't even fire 40mm CS grenades into?

Wasn't there video of the feds shooting something into the building though? Forget the details; something about a SWAT tank?

They used an armoured vehicle to pump CS gas in, but CS gas is not pyrophoric or even flammable. The video of things being shot is of 40mm CS gas grenades. Some were pyrotechnic, most weren't, none managed to enter the concrete bunker area where one of the fires started. There are also audio recordings of the Davidians discussing pouring accelerant inside their buildings. The most suspicious element of the whole thing is the carelessness in continuing to pump CS into the building even while it was burning, as CS decomposed into nasty poisonous compounds when exposed to extreme heat.

 

Between 1993 and 1999, FBI spokesmen denied (even under oath) the use of any sort of pyrotechnic devices during the assault; however, pyrotechnic Flite-Rite CS gas grenades had been found in the rubble immediately following the fire

 

Attorney General Reno had specifically directed that no pyrotechnic devices be used in the assault . They admitted to using the pyrotechnic finally in 1999 (Which means the FBI perjured themselves). It just goes to show that they didn't follow orders. By time the courts knew about the use of the pyrotechnic canisters, 6 years later, it was way too late to investigate properly, plus they demolished the building already.

 

As for the audio recordings of Davidians saying they were going to start the fires, it was never proven what was being said as the tapes were very hard to discern. Some people couldn't hear anything. The accelerants inside that you mentioned, may have never meant to be lit. One survivor claimed he saw some Davidians moving about a dozen one gallon cans of fuel so they would not be run over by armored vehicles.

 

Did the Davidians start two of the three fires.... maybe. But the Feds could have removed all doubt if they didn't use the pyrotechnic canisters as they were directed. Everybody knew the risk of fire, yet they did it anways. They had no concern for the innocent children inside.

 

 

Wasn't there video of the feds shooting something into the building though? Forget the details; something about a SWAT tank?

 

Yes, There is a video of a flash from the outside.

 

 

America is obviously a country where the police are even more out of control than in the rest of the western world

 

Yeah, but it's the courts that allow them to continue. Look at the LA riots for example. People were mad about the Rodney King beating but they were enraged that the police weren't held responsible.

 

 

[sivispacem]

America is obviously a country where the police are even more out of control than in the rest of the western world

 

Yeah, but it's the courts that allow them to continue. Look at the LA riots for example. People were mad about the Rodney King beating but they were enraged that the police weren't held responsible.

I think that was meant as sarcasm originally- or at least that was how I read it. In the grand scheme of things the US police aren't that bad. Compared to the police in Northern Europe and parts of the Far East, sure. But not more generally.

[Clem Fandango]

America is obviously a country where the police are even more out of control than in the rest of the western world

 

Yeah, but it's the courts that allow them to continue. Look at the LA riots for example. People were mad about the Rodney King beating but they were enraged that the police weren't held responsible.

I think that was meant as sarcasm originally- or at least that was how I read it. In the grand scheme of things the US police aren't that bad. Compared to the police in Northern Europe and parts of the Far East, sure. But not more generally.

Notice I said "western world." Completely serious. I'm a bit worried that the cops here or in Britain might push me out of their car in a bad neighbourhood (as they've threatened to do multiple times, those f*cking c*nts) or maybe search me in public to embarrass me (which they've also done those meat-headed pricks) but I'm pretty much completely confident they'd never plant crack on me or hit me with their truncheon- the fact that people in America have to worry about sh*t like that is astounding. I'd also be pretty flabbergasted if the cops set fire to a house full of kids.

[Typhus]

Notice I said "western world." Completely serious. I'm a bit worried that the cops here or in Britain might push me out of their car in a bad neighbourhood (as they've threatened to do multiple times, those f*cking c*nts) or maybe search me in public to embarrass me (which they've also done those meat-headed pricks) but I'm pretty much completely confident they'd never plant crack on me or hit me with their truncheon.

If the police become more privatised - an idea the Cameron has toyed with - it wouldn't shock me to see instances of abuse and corruption skyrocket.

I support the police far more than you - but obviously because I haven't shared your experiences - but I feel a distinct chill run through my spine when I consider a future in which police are not accountable to the public but private corporations. Which seems like a very real possibility, even if at the moment it's just a trial scheme in a few specific places.

[Clem Fandango]

Notice I said "western world." Completely serious. I'm a bit worried that the cops here or in Britain might push me out of their car in a bad neighbourhood (as they've threatened to do multiple times, those f*cking c*nts) or maybe search me in public to embarrass me (which they've also done those meat-headed pricks) but I'm pretty much completely confident they'd never plant crack on me or hit me with their truncheon.

If the police become more privatised - an idea the Cameron has toyed with - it wouldn't shock me to see instances of abuse and corruption skyrocket.

I support the police far more than you - but obviously because I haven't shared your experiences - but I feel a distinct chill run through my spine when I consider a future in which police are not accountable to the public but private corporations. Which seems like a very real possibility, even if at the moment it's just a trial scheme in a few specific places.

I haven't heard about this, he's seriously trying to privatise the police? The Torries are really back with a bang, they're almost like cartoonish supervillains.

[sivispacem]

They've scrapped the plans to allow more back-office police roles to be performed by private companies because none of the new Police and Crime Commissioners who had power of veto over it liked it. In all fairness, if it was run anything like any of the other public sector outsourcing in this country, it would have been a disaster. My experiences of the civil service bringing in hired private sector help have not been at all positive.