The N Word

[Deffpony]

To start off I understand if MODs see fit to lock this thread but this is an honest to GOD attempt at envoking mature discussion concerning how the N word has evolved over time and where it lies in todays society. It should be a compendium of collective opinions regarding the topic and hopefully any rogue cases of immaturity can be dealt with individually. Thanks.

 

I recently got into some what of a debate with someone about the N word and its place in the world. My position was that the N word in black culture has much deeper roots than most non blacks can understand. Here is my take on the N word, its evolution, and its place in todays society.

 

If you look into how the word evolved in black culture it actually makes it seem less derogatory when a black person says it. After lifetimes of being called the N word black men began to refer to themselves with the same term as a way to highlight their own oppression and perserverance. It evolved into a sense of righteousness amongst the community. But that was mostly throughout the 60's and 70's. In recent years it has become a form of bad grammar, much like the words "dude" and "like", making the individual saying it seem ignorant. Along with that the accents applied over time separated the word from the "ger" suffix commonly pronounced by white oppressors to the "ga" suffix which was the black community's pronunciation. This further established the difference in the two words.

 

Words have a way of evolving over time. "Rule of thumb" is a common phrase used today to describe a common practice of some sort. But the phrase stems from a rule that a man could not beat his wife with a stick that was any thicker than his thumb.

 

While this phrase evolved for virtually everyone, the N word evolved mostly for the black community. Hence the two words "ni**er" and "Nigga" having much different meanings. While the word evolved for blacks, it stayed the same for whites which causes a great deal of confusion and misinterpretation.

 

Many whites think the term "Nigga" is still derogatory when blacks use it. But that is because they themselves cannot use it. With some few exceptions, whites are not socially accepted in terms of either N word usage. The N word evolved with the black community and therefore it belongs to the black community.

 

But when blacks use this word it can have many different meanings. As stated earlier, it can simply be the equivalent of the words "Dude" or "Bro". It can be a way to describe a fool or a way to describe a mass of individuals.

 

So thats my take on the evolution, but how about the degredation. I feel that language in general has degraded severly over the last few decades. "Um, ugh, like" people often times speak as if there were ignorant despite possibly being very intelligent. This is no different in black culture.

 

The key difference is that it seems worse from a white point of view. White american english degradation is something understandable turning into something not understandable. But when black american language degrades, from a white point of view its going from something we dont understand, to something we understand even less.

 

Im going to leave the OP at that and just see what kind of responses I get. I would also really like to know the usage of the word in other parts of the world

[Typhus]

A word cannot belong to a single community. Language is a free gift to all of mankind, a way of bettering ourselves and opening our minds not only to new words but to the cultures they open the doors to.

I am glad you share my hypothesis that the 'gger' variant is far more negative and venomous than the 'gga' version of the word. I believe this is not just down to historical usage, but the very different sounds both words make. The first sounds harsh and even venomous, the other lazy and meaningless.

 

I do not care for those who seem to lobby for the 'right' to use that word. Because it's an unpleasant word to use. All races can use this word if they wish, but they must also be prepared to should the responsibility of using that word - all language must be chosen carefully, after all.

 

So whilst I have a dislike for the word, I truly despise the idea that any one group has ownership of it. Such an idea is anti-intellectual, segregationist and has no place in the modern age.

[GTA-King]

I agree with Quentin Tarantino on this matter:

 

 

As a writer, I demand the right to write any character in the world that I want to write. I demand the right to be them, I demand the right to think them and I demand the right to tell the truth as I see they are, all right? And to say that I can't do that because I'm white, but the Hughes brothers can do that because they're black, that is racist. That is the heart of racism, all right. And I do not accept that ... That is how a segment of the black community that lives in Compton, lives in Inglewood, where Jackie Brown takes place, that lives in Carson, that is how they talk. I'm telling the truth. It would not be questioned if I was black, and I resent the question because I'm white. I have the right to tell the truth. I do not have the right to lie.

[Deffpony]

 

A word cannot belong to a single community. Language is a free gift to all of mankind, a way of bettering ourselves and opening our minds not only to new words but to the cultures they open the doors to.

I am glad you share my hypothesis that the 'gger' variant is far more negative and venomous than the 'gga' version of the word. I believe this is not just down to historical usage, but the very different sounds both words make. The first sounds harsh and even venomous, the other lazy and meaningless.

 

I do not care for those who seem to lobby for the 'right' to use that word. Because it's an unpleasant word to use. All races can use this word if they wish, but they must also be prepared to should the responsibility of using that word - all language must be chosen carefully, after all.

 

So whilst I have a dislike for the word, I truly despise the idea that any one group has ownership of it. Such an idea is anti-intellectual, segregationist and has no place in the modern age.

First, Thank you for bringing up the sound of the word. Phonetically the gger sounds much more negative that the gga.

 

As far as it being an unpleasant word to use, like I said previously, it is unpleasant for you because you you were not there throughout the evolution of the word in the black community. It is still essentially the same word that it was 50 years ago.

 

But for blacks it has taken 2 seperate paths, one word that evolved with them to be endearing, and the other word that stayed the same.

 

@GTAKing: I agree, when it comes to interpretation I think its obviously acceptable. I think that so many people are too quick to point the finger in blame for that words usage

[Brown Sugar]

I do not care for those who seem to lobby for the 'right' to use that word. Because it's an unpleasant word to use. All races can use this word if they wish, but they must also be prepared to should the responsibility of using that word - all language must be chosen carefully, after all.

 

It's hard to justify the use of the word "ni**er" considering the fact it has such horrible and negative connotations but I think the problem now is that people are too careful with this subject. Most people are too afraid to use the word even in an appropriate context, when I say appropriate context I don't mean it's ok to say it unless you're talking to a black person but there are times when it's ok to use the word. For example, the media has developed the over use of "the N word" if you're going to refer to somebody else using the word "ni**er" with hate or prejudice then I do believe it's okay to say "ni**er" as opposed to "the N word". It's got to the point where any use of the word "ni**er" at all by anyone is completely unacceptable but I don't think that's right, I think it's over sensitive and just gives people an excuse to scream and yell and cause outrage over the smallest of things.

[GTA_stu]

I think it's stupid when white people say: "Well they use the word, so why shouldn't we?" Or think it's racist or somehow unfair that only black people should be able to say it. There are times when it is acceptable for white people to say it, but mostly it is taboo to say it, especially to a black person. Words are not just words, they can carry with them a lot of meaning and history, and "ni**er" is probably the best example of this. I think it's a bit ignorant and dismissive of all the history associated with the word, to say it's "just a word".

[ryuclan]

I explain it by talking about someone's wife. Some men talk mad sh*t about their wives, but if you say anything they're on your ass. Some men only say kind things. And some men will allow you to talk hit about her as well. It boils down to

 

Personality

Personal relationship

Comfort level

Intent

 

I could tell my friend "Shut up bitch" and he'll laugh about it. Becausehis personality ddoesn't allow it to register as a real insult. Our relationship is that we understand its a joke. We're both comfortable with its use and context. And he understands my intent is not to be hostile, just joke.

 

 

This is the difference. Its not that we (black people) own the word. We just have those criteria handled whenever interacting. As long as everyone else does too they can say it till they're blue in the face.

[860]

[Sizeway]

I am about 25% Black and my black friend called me "My nigga" No big deal He would probably let me use it i am just too afraid he will beat my ass

[Deffpony]

Love that skit 860

[Creed Bratton]

It's not the word that's relevant. It's the context in which the word is said.

[IM_YOUR_GOD]

I love HipHop!

 

nigganigganigganigg, don't believe me just watch.

 

 

 

[DeeperRed]

It's not the word that's relevant. It's the context in which the word is said.

Exactly.

 

If I say "What you sayin my ni**er" to a black friend, it is harmless. It carries none of the historical meaning, nor derogatory. Now if said to a black man "f*ck off you dirty n****r" then its completely different, there I am using the word with its historical meaning.

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

 

I explain it by talking about someone's wife. Some men talk mad sh*t about their wives, but if you say anything they're on your ass. Some men only say kind things. And some men will allow you to talk hit about her as well. It boils down to

 

Personality

Personal relationship

Comfort level

Intent

 

I could tell my friend "Shut up bitch" and he'll laugh about it. Becausehis personality ddoesn't allow it to register as a real insult. Our relationship is that we understand its a joke. We're both comfortable with its use and context. And he understands my intent is not to be hostile, just joke.

 

 

This is the difference. Its not that we (black people) own the word. We just have those criteria handled whenever interacting. As long as everyone else does too they can say it till they're blue in the face.

This. I would also like to add that no one has ownership of the word. It's the ownership over the context that matters. As the quoted post explains, everyone has contexts in which they claim ownership. People from all races have the "right" to say the word if their personality, relationship, comfort level, and intent are in check.

 

Where most whites royally f*ck up is when they associate with a black person who allows the word to some extent and misinterpret this personal informal agreement as a universal license to use the word around all blacks. Not only is this racist due to the assumption that all blacks collude on a consensus roster of whites who can say the word, but it also places the burden on the black associate to react "properly" in front of other blacks to avoid the socially damaging "Uncle Tom" label. Problem is...there is no "proper" reaction, because all black people are different on the word. That's why many blacks who understand how silly it is to ban a word in all contexts, still don't approve of the word's usage. It carries a responsibility that many whites can't handle.

 

This is also why the word is more of a bad habit for whites than blacks. Blacks are given cultural immunity for using the word to some degree because other blacks who disapprove of the word won't fight another black over it. It would be seen as overreacting. Though fighting a white person over the same usage is illogical, it's more foreseeable given the emotional weight of the word when coming from a white. As a race, blacks just aren't used to hearing that word from whites in a friendly/harmless manner yet.

 

 

 

*As a firm believer in free speech, I believe that people should be able to use ANY word they please. However, it is redundant for people to think they are entitled to protection from those who get offended by a word just because its use is logically justified. It's naive to undermine consequences just because they are enforced by those with fallacious cognitive biases. This is the cultural landscape we've inherited from our forefathers whether we like it or not.

[Killer783]

I don't see how it's bad to say it. Yet they can easily say every other insult that involves a race.

I freely say it around my black friends. They see no problem with that.

I just don't get how everyone else has a problem with it.

[Captain VXR]

[Acehilm]

[BRITLAND]

I still don't understand why blacks get their own TV channel

BET - Black Entertainment Television

[Straznicy]

It has been said already so I won't delve too deeply; it depends on context and intent. Words cannot and should not belong to particular groups or individuals.

 

I use "nigga" seldomly in discourse with my friends; á la 'What's up my nigga...' and such. It's employed satirically and not intended as an offense. Even if you are offended, I don't really care, "being offended" affords you no special rights, it is a meaningless concept.

 

 

[The N. Bellic Man]

I could/would use N Word to anyone's face if I want. That being said I still have some respect to black folk and some black (female) beauty isn't an eyesore for sure.

[Raavi]

I hate those little racialy fueled habits in our today's society. Whenever anyone talks about someone who has a different skin color than white they refer to them as black, asian.. We are all equal no mather what skin color you have. The use of words like "Ngr" is just foolish all together. Skin color doesn't define who someone really is.

[lil weasel]

Piffle... Just use the word 'Negro' on this very forum and watch the fur fly.

If you're not talking about the river or India Ink you'd think the world was going to erupt into chaos because a few super sensitive Honkies want to create a problem.

[GTA_stu]

Someone once told me that it was an unfair stereotype that old people are racist.

[K-Malo94]

I like the way KRS-One explains it.

 

 

 

 

[TheGodDamnMaster]

There are various ways it can be interpreted.

 

-er suffix - almost exclusively used in a racist manner

-gga suffix - more like a modern gang slang term, sometimes used by white people

-groe suffix - not necessarily racist or prejudiced. I've seen it used without issue from some african americans, but that's just a small sample.

 

Overall, just avoid it.

[Finn 7 five 11]

I hate those little racialy fueled habits in our today's society. Whenever anyone talks about someone who has a different skin color than white they refer to them as black, asian.. We are all equal no mather what skin color you have. The use of words like "Ngr" is just foolish all together. Skin color doesn't define who someone really is.

You can't just ignore skin colour, it's still there, you still look at them and they are still black, white, asian, chinese, Asian, whatever.

 

[ryuclan]

I still don't understand why blacks get their own TV channel

BET - Black Entertainment Television

Have you ever watched the "shows" on that turd of a f*cking channel? Honestly I hate the channel and its programming. Haven't watched it in years.

 

 

@The N. Bellic Man: I didn't understand anything you said dude...

[FullMetal]

True story: me and my friends call eachother "N WORD" all of the time.

 

We're all as white as sour cream.

[.dre.]

I laugh now when White people complain that they can't use the word. Like it has some kind of power. Like they want something they can't have. Like a woman who likes a guy only because he doesn't give her much attention. You get my point. Most can't even differentiate the 'er' and the 'ga' as you mentioned in your OP. It's sad and pathetic but laughable. It's funny to see a lot of comments complain about how they can't say the word and at the same time they use it constantly to troll behind the safety of their computer screens. What purpose does that word serve to you? It's just a word.

The only White person I see that can make the most use out of the word nigga is Eminem because he's a rapper and he's in that industry where it's used a lot. I don't even think most Black people now would mind if he uses it. He gained a lot of respect in the rap community but because he respects the community so much he doesn't want to use it. Again it's funny. This time because it's ironic. The person who actually would have the most usage out of such a ignorant word refuses to use it because he has so much respect for that community. It goes to show you that the people who bitch about not being able to use it have zero respect for the Black community and just love to have something to bitch about.

[TheGodDamnMaster]

I still don't understand why blacks get their own TV channel

BET - Black Entertainment Television

And their own month. Look, I get it, the African American civil rights movement has come a long way in the past 100 years. But are organizations like the NAACP necessary anymore?

 

And what about a European or Immigrant history month? To celebrate the memory of the millions of people who came to this country with nothing, and then built it up into a modern society.