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BullworthAcademy

Cyberpunk 2077

Recommended Posts

DareYokel

CDPR not disciplined and not organized....tsss what a schmock thing to say

Do you have to try to live up to your username or does it come naturally? You should have watched the video before you made this comment.

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Hit by Lightning

@Veroder Thanks for sharing the video!

Hope they won't run out of money before the damn thing completes! :lol:

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Dryspace

Welp. "Seamless multiplayer" killed any excitement I had for this game.

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feckyerlife

Welp. "Seamless multiplayer" killed any excitement I had for this game.

from what i understand the multiplayer is supposed to be like another gwent. but you will be allowed to play other players inside of bars/clubs throughout the city. The clubs & bars is where the only interaction between players will be at.

Edited by feckyerlife

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Candy_Licker

Wow, so much info in that video. I would be surprised if we see this game before 2021. Cyberpunk 2077's development sounds abysmal all round. A real disaster. Actually worse than I originally thought.

I'm still watching the video, but there's no reason for scaremongering. Remember the alarms before Witcher 3, saying development was a catastrophe and they could never deliver? Turned out pretty good I'd say. These alarms are all too similar.

 

2019- 21 always was the realistic timetable. So I don't see what's supposed to be so dramatic about that. CDPR stated that they want to be like R* and work for a very long time on one game for the best experience. That's absolutely normal for a game with the scope+quality CDPR strives for.

Anyone who expected this to be released soonish was just really naive, I guess the ones who're panicking now are the ones who had unrealistic expectations from the start.

 

 

We've seen nothing but a single CGI trailer in years. It certainly doesn't look good for them.

 

Still, these guys managed to create the best game that I've ever played, despite how disorganized they seem to be. I can't even imagine what they'd be able to do if they were organized and disciplined.

Ummm, the CGI teaser was released way before development even started, so that thing is completely irrelevant. That they haven't shown anything since then shouldn't suprise either, they said they would only start showing the game once they are far enough. A thing many deveopers do these days (Bethesda, Parox come to my mind) to ease the pressure and avoid the usual outcry from the usual delays (a lesson which CDPR obviously learned from W3). It doesn't make any sense to hype a game 2 years before release anyway.

 

 

Full production only started after Blood&Wine, with many people needing to he hired. For sure it causes a fair amount of chaos and disorganization if you have to expand your team so fast, no way to avoid that. They probably have to learn a few lessons about organization along the way.

Edited by Candy_Licker

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Static

I'm still watching the video, but there's no reason for scaremongering. Remember the alarms before Witcher 3, saying development was a catastrophe and they could never deliver? Turned out pretty good I'd say. These alarms are all too similar.

 

And according to the sources in the video, the development was a catastrophe, for all three Witcher games. Just because it was finally released, doesnt mean the development cycle wasn't chaotic.

 

Ummm, the CGI teaser was released way before development even started, so that thing is completely irrelevant. That they haven't shown anything since then shouldn't suprise either, they said they would only start showing the game once they are far enough. A thing many deveopers do these days (Bethesda, Parox come to my mind) to ease the pressure and avoid the usual outcry from the usual delays (a lesson which CDPR obviously learned from W3). It doesn't make any sense to hype a game 2 years before release anyway.

 

That's kinda a contradiction, isnt it? If it "doesn't make sense to hype a game 2 years before release" then why release a CGI trailer 6-8 years before release?

 

 

Full production only started after Blood&Wine, with many people needing to he hired. For sure it causes a fair amount of chaos and disorganization if you have to expand your team so fast, no way to avoid that. They probably have to learn a few lessons about organization along the way.

 

But the main reason they had to expand their team so much was due to the large percentage of their team leaving during or after the development of W3 and its DLCs. Majority of the chaos and disorganzation seems to stem from Badowski's style of management, or lack thereof rather.

Edited by Static

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Dryspace

Where I agree with Candy_Licker** is that, from the evidence that I have seen thus far, the facts do not justify the harsh condemnation some have levied against the company. For example, the number of posts on Glass Door equal a fraction of the total number of employees that work there or did in the recent past, and one of the two sources cited in the video admits that some of them are fake.

 

Further, it is clear that most or all of the negative posts are from Western employees who did not like the Polish business atmosphere. I have not watched the entire video, so if there is more concrete evidence that the company's principals are blackguards I will correct my assessment.

 

However...the rest of your post is a logical quagmire, Candy_Licker.

 

2019-21 was *always* the realistic timetable for Cyberpunk 2077? To whom, exactly? It was announced in 2012, and originally given a release date of 2015.

 

The "very long time" that Rockstar has worked on a game is the normal 5 years or less.

 

The CGI teaser wasn't released "way before" development started--unless the release date was announced way before development started.

 

Personally, I think "Cyberpunk" was a poor choice for source material that originally sounded cool because it was so far from the type of game they had been immersed in for such a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if the principals at some point regretted the decision. I also wonder if the employees in general are nearly as excited about it as they have been for Sapkowski's works.

 

Basically, CD Projekt RED's track record suggests to me that the game's delay has more to do with the choice of game itself rather than general incompetence.

 

 

** Are we talking "Girl I wanna be your Candy Licker, tell me can I lick your candy"?

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Static

 

 

In conversation with Polish investment site Strefa Inwestorow (via TechRaptor), Kiciński explores the areas in which Cyberpunk aims to improve on The Witcher 3's success, despite remaining tight-lipped on the particulars.

 

 

 

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Candy_Licker

 

I'm still watching the video, but there's no reason for scaremongering. Remember the alarms before Witcher 3, saying development was a catastrophe and they could never deliver? Turned out pretty good I'd say. These alarms are all too similar.

And according to the sources in the video, the development was a catastrophe, for all three Witcher games. Just because it was finally released, doesnt mean the development cycle wasn't chaotic.

 

 

Ummm, the CGI teaser was released way before development even started, so that thing is completely irrelevant. That they haven't shown anything since then shouldn't suprise either, they said they would only start showing the game once they are far enough. A thing many deveopers do these days (Bethesda, Parox come to my mind) to ease the pressure and avoid the usual outcry from the usual delays (a lesson which CDPR obviously learned from W3). It doesn't make any sense to hype a game 2 years before release anyway.

That's kinda a contradiction, isnt it? If it "doesn't make sense to hype a game 2 years before release" then why release a CGI trailer 6-8 years before release?

 

 

 

 

 

Full production only started after Blood&Wine, with many people needing to he hired. For sure it causes a fair amount of chaos and disorganization if you have to expand your team so fast, no way to avoid that. They probably have to learn a few lessons about organization along the way.

But the main reason they had to expand their team so much was due to the large percentage of their team leaving during or after the development of W3 and its DLCs. Majority of the chaos and disorganzation seems to stem from Badowski's style of management, or lack thereof rather.

 

about why they released a trailer in 2012: they stated that it was a teaser to test out if there is interest and as a recruitment tool(can't find the source now) Showing one small teaser is not what I'd call starting the hype train.

 

It should be common sense that a studio like CDPR didn't have the ressources to do games like Witcher 2/3 and simultaneously work on another AAA project at the time. You can be sure most of the thing done before 2015 was pre-pruduction & concept stuff.

 

I'm not saying the high fluctuation doesn't cause problems, but again, I don't think the turnaround is uncommon among the industry. Lot of employment in this sector is project based, and sadly gaming development burns through people left and right. I read some interesting articles last year that most people drop out within a few years, because developers routinely exploit the idealism of young, idealistic people working in their dream field, and many of those people will endure it for a short time and take it as a reference for finding a more managable line of work. It certainly sucks that standards in the industry are so harsh, and I'm the first one to condemn it, but these studios are calculating with it.

A fair amount of work is pretty repetitive, like testing and especially building the world (imagine all those people putting the trees/building in the game) that is done by "replaceable drones".

 

 

2019-21 was *always* the realistic timetable for Cyberpunk 2077? To whom, exactly? It was announced in 2012, and originally given a release date of 2015.

2015? Now, I would really like a source who stated this. CDPR never gave a release date for Cyberpunk. The only official thing we have is their strategy report from last year, which gives the vague schedule of 2017-2021

 

https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2016/04/strategy-en-v2.pdf

Edited by Candy_Licker

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Dryspace

@Candy_Licker

 

I was informed of the 2015 release date in 2013. I know this because that is what is recorded in the spreadsheet that I use to keep track of games that I am interested in. But here are a couple of links:

 

http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/40324/20140925/cyberpunk-2077-release-date.htm

 

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/cyberpunk-2077-trailer-teases-witcher-3-announcement/1100-6402282/

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Candy_Licker

@Candy_Licker

 

I was informed of the 2015 release date in 2013. I know this because that is what is recorded in the spreadsheet that I use to keep track of games that I am interested in. But here are a couple of links:

 

http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/40324/20140925/cyberpunk-2077-release-date.htm

 

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/cyberpunk-2077-trailer-teases-witcher-3-announcement/1100-6402282/

Wow, the first article seems to be a complete fabrication. The supposed Gamespot interview the article refers to is nowhere to be found if you browse the archives, other Gamespot interviews never mention an official release date. I didn't have CDPR on my radar, but if CDPR had confirmed a release date, there would have been articles all over the place. The second one is even better. It's based on a reddit speculation and a cryptic message in the trailer. I don't think I have to comment this further :D

 

Looks like this thing was based entirely on speculation, gossip and gullibility.

Edited by Candy_Licker

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Static
about why they released a trailer in 2012: they stated that it was a teaser to test out if there is interest and as a recruitment tool(can't find the source now) Showing one small teaser is not what I'd call starting the hype train.
Now you're just trying to split hairs...

 

A teaser trailer for an upcoming film, television program, video game or similar, is usually released long in advance of the product, so as to "tease" the audience.
Had they not released it, we wouldnt even be having this very discussion seeing how the trailer is this topics op in its entirety.
I mean, personally, I have no problem waiting as long as the finished product reflects the time it took, but at the same time, it would take less time if Badowski would hand over the various reins to his respective dept. heads instead of the micromanaging style he seems to rely on for whatever reason.

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Dryspace

@Candy_Licker

 

Here is another:

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-13-cd-projekt-red-says-cyberpunk-2077-will-have-multiplayer

 

I don't remember where I originally got the information; I'm only giving possible examples.

 

Also, I only said that a release date was announced, or given. I did not say that an official release date was set. I have never been particularly excited about this game; I only kept track of it initially because The Witcher: Enhanced Edition is among my favorite PC games. I treated it the way I treat all initial release dates these days: tentative, temporary, and subject to change without notice.

Edited by Dryspace

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chronic lumbago

https://www.resetera.com/threads/cyberpunk-2077-will-have-online-elements-value-of-gaas-must-be-acknowledged-cdpr-ceo.6520/

 

"Value as games as a service must be acknowledged." - CEO

 

"we want to have a commercial leg for service type games, games which generate stable income, period to period" - CEO

 

Rip free DLC

Rip massive expansions

Rip good reputation

 

Acknowledge my ass dude.

 

Lol at least my hype levels have stabilised now.

Edited by fashion

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DareYokel

Yeah, that doesn't sound good. But it may not mean anything other than "the game will have multiplayer mode". Which I'm not against at all if it's not done to milk money from players. And after the EA scandal I don't think a studio like CDPR that built their success on single player games would risk ruining their reputation permanently after going through a lot of work to be recognized as one of the most consumer-friendly studios out there.

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Coin

You know the bar is set pretty low when people genuinely believe that.

 

Hopefully Cyberpunk 2077 makes it into the daylight if only so Harebrained have some competition in the cyberpunk space.

Edited by Coin

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Hit by Lightning

For people who don’t want to watch a 44 mins video here is the short version :

Start

CDPR was focused entirely on the perfection of the Witcher’s expansions and not until the last update was released last year they started to develop Cyberpunk. They found out that REDengine 3 can’t handle their vision of the game so they started to build a new engine

End

 

This was like 2 mins and the remaining 42 mins was irrelevant bit*hing and moaning about nonsense cr*p. It’s irrelevant because >

1- 99.99 of the issues they mentioned happen all the time in most AAA studios during big projects.

2- As a consumer why do I care? The end product is always a masterpiece. Those two idiots “source A &B” might have a case if CDPR produces sh*ty games but that’s not the case.

 

Finally, if the issues they spoke about cause CDPR to develop such amazing products then me and Candy_Licker will travel to Poland and intentionally cause more chaos and mismanagement in CDPR studios so they can develop even more epic games! :lol:

Edited by Hit by Lightning

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Static

For people who don’t want to watch a 44 mins video here is the short version :

Start

CDPR was focused entirely on the perfection of the Witcher’s expansions and not until the last update was released last year they started to develop Cyberpunk. They found out that REDengine 3 can’t handle their vision of the game so they started to build a new engine

End

 

This was like 2 mins and the remaining 42 mins was irrelevant bit*hing and moaning about nonsense cr*p. It’s irrelevant because >

1- 99.99 of the issues they mentioned happen all the time in most AAA studios during big projects.

2- As a consumer why do I care? The end product is always a masterpiece. Those two idiots “source A &B” might have a case if CDPR produces sh*ty games but that’s not the case.

 

Finally, if the issues they spoke about cause CDPR to develop such amazing products then me and Candy_Licker will travel to Poland and intentionally cause more chaos and mismanagement in CDPR studios so they can develop even more epic games! :lol:

 

Good job cherry picking I guess? (you're kinda bad at it tbh. there where a few more tidbits you could've try to put a positive spend on and the one you mentioned is no where near the 2min mark btw)

 

1.- CDPR aren't a AAA studio

2.- As a consumer you should care for various reasons, the main ones being that if the dev process was streamlined, they wouldn't have to delay their games multiple times, less content would be cut due to time restraints, and there would be less bugs due to having more time to polish in the end result, etc.

 

In regards to your last sentence, simply put, correlation doesn't imply causation.

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Dryspace

@Static

 

For the most part, Lightning's assessment of the video matches mine--although I admitted before that I didn't watch it in its entirety. I didn't see any evidence that there are any dark or devious goings-on at CD Projekt RED. However, if you are aware of any evidence to the contrary, it would have been nice if you had provided that instead of wasting two sentences commending Lightning on his cherry-picking abilities and calling him out on his inability to gauge an accurate time mark.

 

1. The Witcher: Enhanced Edition, The Witcher 2, and The Witcher 3 were all AAA games. If they aren't, then the definition of "AAA" is for practical purposes meaningless.

 

2. What you say may well be true, but what Lightning said is true as well. From a player's perspective, if a game is great, and the developer made a profit, it doesn't matter how difficult the production process might have been.

 

His last sentence was clearly facetious.

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Static

I personally don't see how anyone could form an accurate assessment without viewing the material themselves, but to each their own I guess. Also, I never said there were "dark or devious going-ons" occurring just that their current habitually chaotic and unorganized development cycle could be streamlined into one that results in an improvement for both the dev team and the player. But since you asked, cutting salaries by 25% and laying off 40% of your team at or about the same time, thereby forcing your already undersized team to compensate even more by working longer hours for less money, might not be considered "dark or devious", but it defiantly doesn't sit well with me. My point "condemning" his statement was that there was more to the video than simply CDPR having to redesign/upgrade their engine and his attempt at being "helpful" was anything but.

 

1. I never said the games weren't AAA, just that CDPR aren't AAA studio (which is half the reason they're so highly idolized)

2. From another logical perspective, having a more cohesive team and organized dev cycle translates into a better a game. One with less cut content, less bugs/glitches, and less delays.

 

His last sentence was clearly asinine as well.

Edited by Static

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Dryspace

@Static

 

I watched the first 20 minutes, then skimmed through until the end. I admitted this, which is why I asked you to correct my assessment if you were aware of any evidence I had missed.

 

I know you didn't use the phrase "dark and devious"--I was referring to some of the posts that immediately followed the video, in which the reaction was basically "I had no idea how horrible a company they were" or "This is worse than I ever thought it could be", which I didn't understand after looking at the video myself. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth if you in fact do not hold that viewpoint.

 

I'm not sure why the purported instance of cutting salaries by 25% and laying of 40% of the team after two planned games were canceled doesn't sit well with you. Would you prefer they had closed down? They are still the highest-paying studio in Poland.

 

When you are innovating in the video game industry, you are doing things that have never been done before. It is an inherently unpredictable process. That is why smart studios don't set release dates. That is why some games, like Half-Life 2, take 6 years to develop. If you are trying to do something new, you are treading ground which has never been mapped before.

 

I just don't think it is possible for us to say that CD Projekt RED doesn't know what they are doing. They may be able to improve quite a bit, but that is not the same thing as being incompetent.

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Static

I'm not sure why the purported instance of cutting salaries by 25% and laying of 40% of the team after two planned games were canceled doesn't sit well with you. Would you prefer they had closed down? They are still the highest-paying studio in Poland.

 

When you are innovating in the video game industry, you are doing things that have never been done before. It is an inherently unpredictable process. That is why smart studios don't set release dates. That is why some games, like Half-Life 2, take 6 years to develop. If you are trying to do something new, you are treading ground which has never been mapped before.

 

I just don't think it is possible for us to say that CD Projekt RED doesn't know what they are doing. They may be able to improve quite a bit, but that is not the same thing as being incompetent.

 

The salary cuts and layoffs weren't after W 1&2, but during 2's development, hence the term "undersized". Of course it's normal for a studio to downsize after/in between projects. Paying well and treating your employees unfairly aren't mutually exclusive. There's a reason that the dev teams mainly consist of westerners now and it's not because all the Poles got rich and moved.

 

If you're implying CPDR are innovating anything in terms of Cyberpunks development, that's really only an assumption at this point seeing how we know very little about the game other than there'll be MP and will have "games as a service" like qualities. If you're referring to the Witcher series, the only real innovative part was the story/theme. If not, that only leaves Gwent, which albeit, is fun, is a dime a dozen when it comes to the card game genre. Regarding smart studios, they also don't release CGI teaser trailers that were made by an outsourced 3rd party dev 5 years before production supposedly begins. Yet again, I don't mind waiting in the slightest as long as the end result reflects the time invested and dont end up seeing an "enhanced edition" which really translates to "complete edition".

 

I never said they were incompetent though, so I'm not sure where you even got that from.

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Dryspace

@Static

 

If I understood correctly, the cuts were after both the Witcher port and "They" were canceled. Keep in mind that I am assuming for the sake of discussion that the anonymous sources in this video are accurate as to the details given.

 

No, I wasn't implying anything regarding Cyberpunk 2077; as you say, we know basically nothing about it. I believe that The Witcher: Enhanced Edition is very nearly a masterpiece. It's definitely among my top PC games. I'm disappointed that CD Projekt RED now design for console, but I still believe they have tried to make the best games possible, rather than simply making the most profitable games possible.

 

Lol...I wasn't referring to CD Projekt RED when I mentioned smart studios. Remember, I'm the one who thought they did put out a tentative release date for Cyberpunk 2077. Even though they don't make games anymore, Valve is who I was thinking of.

 

Also, this is pure speculation of course, but I suspect that Cyberpunk 2077 did begin development a while ago--possibly before 2013 when the CGI teaser was released--but that they have second-guessed their original ideas for the game. I also would be surprised if the company in general is nearly as excited about the IP as they were for the Witcher, but I have no evidence for that at all.

 

I don't mind waiting for a game, either. I would like to point out that, when The Witcher: Enhanced Edition was released a year after the original release, it was provided for free to those who purchased the original, as one would expect a scrupulous company to do. Even though it was a massive update (or completion, one might say), including thousands of lines of re-recorded dialogue.

Edited by Dryspace
Typo

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Hit by Lightning

@Static

For bizarre reason you seem to believe everything in this video and go from there! Unless you actually worked for CDPR you wouldn’t know for sure if the information said in this video is accurate. The objective facts and the logical conclusion based on the past CDPR record suggest that Cyberpunk will be yet another masterpiece.

 

So I don’t know what’s your problem unless you are one of those “it’s in YouTube it must be true” Or you just like moaning in general!

For all we know they might be exaggerating , editorialising or even fabricating. The only official comment addressed these reviews and nothing seemed out of the ordinary of a project of this magnitude.

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Coin

The video in question is rather unbiased, with the Youtuber specifically addressing many of the counter points. Not to mention a significant amount of research went into it; it isn't some clickbait bullsh*t to generate heat for his channel.

 

You'd have to be naive to think CD Projekt Red's response to the glassdoor reviews was anything other than PR bullsh*ttery.

Edited by Coin

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Static

@Static

For bizarre reason you seem to believe everything in this video and go from there! Unless you actually worked for CDPR you wouldn’t know for sure if the information said in this video is accurate. The objective facts and the logical conclusion based on the past CDPR record suggest that Cyberpunk will be yet another masterpiece.

 

So I don’t know what’s your problem unless you are one of those “it’s in YouTube it must be true” Or you just like moaning in general!

For all we know they might be exaggerating , editorialising or even fabricating. The only official comment addressed these reviews and nothing seemed out of the ordinary of a project of this magnitude.

 

Yeah I guess it is totally bizarre to form an opinion based on the unbiased information given to you, nowadays. And with that logic, unless you worked for them as well you wouldn't know if the information was false, see how that works both ways? The objective facts are CDPR tend to delay their games and then release them in an incomplete/unfinished state. Nowhere did I say Cyberpunk wouldn't be good, but at this point I feel like CDPR could sh*t on your doorstep and you'd claim that as a masterpiece as well.

 

I guess the only problem I have is at sucking CDPR's dick? 90% of my posts have been simply stating that they have room for improvement. Regardless how great anyone is at anything, there's always room.

I don't doubt that there might be some exaggerated, editorialized, and/or fabricated claims amongst the glassdoor reviews, even the video itself points that out. That however, doesn't discredit the sources for the video.

Also, I don't see why they would release that statement if all the reviews and complaints were completely unfounded. At best they addressed a non-issue and at worst they gave credence to the claims.

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chronic lumbago

Oh my god <3

 

I take everything back.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/CDPROJEKTRED/status/932224394541314055

 

"Worry not. When thinking CP2077, think nothing less than TW3 huge single player, open world, story-driven RPG. No hidden catch, you get what you pay for no bullsh*t, just honest gaming like with Wild Hunt. We leave greed to others."

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Hit by Lightning

@ Static

You want to believe some random video it’s up to you. Personally, I won’t be wasting my time bit*hing and moaning about unproven facts.

 

And yes I will continue supporting studios like CDPR, R*, Rebellion, Arkane and others. The mentality of a 12 year old calls it “suc*kin dic*s”. Normal people call it showing gratitude. This way they will continue developing great products. Once they release unfinished or substandard games, then it’s a different story.

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Static

@ Static

You want to believe some random video it’s up to you. Personally, I won’t be wasting my time bit*hing and moaning about unproven facts.

And yes I will continue supporting studios like CDPR, R*, Rebellion, Arkane and others. The mentality of a 12 year old calls it “suc*kin dic*s”. Normal people call it showing gratitude. This way they will continue developing great products. Once they release unfinished or substandard games, then it’s a different story.

 

That's literally all you've been doing with this back and forth. And just because you to choose to not believe something, doesn't mean its unproven, just that you're possibly in denial.

Good for you I guess? Though I didn't mention anything about boycotting any studio/game, so...

 

Speaking of childish mentalities

 

2- As a consumer why do I care? The end product is always a masterpiece. Those two idiots “source A &B” might have a case if CDPR produces sh*ty games but that’s not the case.

 

That's the epitome of one right there. "Why do I care as long as I get my shiny new toy?!" "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is an idiot!"

Some f*ckin supporter you are. A real supporter would at least somewhat care about the treatment and well being of the employees that staff their favorite studio that makes their favorite game. If not at least for the lowest reason you could care which would be, without the employees there's no studio, without the studio there's no game. It shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp, but since the overall theme of your posts has been akin to a child covering theirs ears and screaming "LALALALALALA ICANTHEARYOU LALALALALA", I guess I shouldn't be surprised you're having such a difficult time understanding that.

 

Regarding releasing unfinished products, both W 1 & 2 were unfinished when released, hence the "enhanced editions" that came afterwards which were made up of nothing but cut content.

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