Cyberpunk 2077

[feckyerlife]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

CDPR are absolutely going to listen to what players think of the gameplay demo but it's unlikely they're going to start ripping chunks out of the game and starting from scratch because of player feedback, the game won't be out till 2025 if that's the case. The biggest example of it would be a third person mode, that's the one major "issue" from customers so far and the odds of them changing that are very slim - it'd not only require them to rework huge parts of the game, the HUD, new animations, etc but also to change their core design beliefs for the game.

 

I know nothing of game developing. but if you already allow 3rd person while driving, how hard is the switch? you already have part of the coding there i would imagine. I don't believe they will implement TPP on release, but they might add it in like Rockstar did with FPP in GTA V, later down the road.  

[Jason]

Eh, there's a big leap from allowing third person driving to allowing third person everything. There are videos out there of FPS games where modders have turned the game into a third person game and you'll see things like really stiff animations that weren't made with third person in mind or completely non-existent animations where the body is distorting and twisting into an abomination. The reason being is simple, you don't waste time making great third person animations if your game is first person - and there are A LOT of animations in big open world AAA games these days. Thousands upon thousands of them. If they've designed the game around FPS with no thought to ever adding a third person then it's probable that to add third person they'd have to start completely from scratch.

 

That's also not even contemplating other things they'd have to work on to adapt to third person like the camera, UI, combat and all in all just simply going back on their design principles they decided when they started working on the game.

[Dryspace]

9 hours ago, feckyerlife said:

but wouldn't the new consoles be out by the end of 2020? it would go against their claim this game is for current gen.

Hmm...I hadn't heard that. For some reason I thought I had heard the opposite--that they said something about it releasing for current- and next-gen consoles simultaneously.

 

We don't know for certain of course, but sure--new consoles could release in 2020. Even if that is the case, and they release in 2020 only for PC and current-gen first, wouldn't it be similar to GTA V, which released for 360/PS3 two months before the release of One/PS4?

[Jason]

Yea if the new consoles are out in fall 2020 and the game is out in fall 2020 it'll 100% squeeze in just before the consoles release, like GTA V. Be foolish to release it any later, you wanna take advantage of the 100m+ Xbox One's and PS4's out there while people still want to buy games for 'em.

[Commander S]

Yeah - plus, better to aim for squeezing as much juice as you can out of known hardware (there's always the possibility for a 'remaster' or whatever later...), than having to make a wild guess as to what next-generation machines will be able to handle, and then be forced to downgrade when you find out that they're less powerful than the PC you were using as a stand-in...

 

...i.e., CDPR would be wise to aim at being another GTA V/The Last of Us in that regard, and not make the same mistakes as Watch Dogs 1.

[Edward Nashton]

Yeah, that demo looked great in terms of visuals and such, but nothing about it made me think it can't run on the current gen consoles, hell, I think I might be able to run it at a respectable quality on my 980ti, although I'll probably upgrade anyway. I think the art style and the imagination behind it is what makes this game look so impressive, but technical things like the lighting engine and texture quality etc. seem to be on par with what you'd expect from upcoming AAA titles on the current gen.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Edward Nashton

[Dryspace]

@Edward Nashton

 

Since it will be a current-gen console game, there's no reason it wouldn't run well on a 980 Ti at normal resolutions. Any existing games that don't run well are the result of poor coding/optimization and/or ridiculous virtualized DRM implementations. I have a pretty good confidence in CD Projekt RED that they won't simply toss-port the PC version and rely on brute force as is usually done.

 

I have a 980 Ti, and I'm in an unfortunate situation after having bought a 55" 4K OLED display for high-FOV viewing (I like saying 'display' instead of 'TV', lol). I can't just use the NVIDIA control panel to render games at a lower res centered in the screen because of burn-in issues. If I render in only a portion of the screen for extended periods, over enough time I could have a rectangle burned in.

 

THUS....I need a GPU that can play games at 4K @ 60+ fps at around max settings (with reasonable tweaking). I've always maxed games and simply ran a lower resolution if necessary on my CRT to get a vsynced 60 fps. Now that's not an option. It's either a 1080 Ti or a 2080 Ti, but the general performance of the 2080 Ti is unknown, so for now I wait.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Dryspace
Typo

[Commander S]

Not exactly new, but for the sake of anyone who didn't already know, or hadn't seen any official word from CDPR on the subject:

 

 

And then followed up by a community management (I think, at least) person on Reddit, stating "It was mentioned many many times already :)" - so yeah, anyone wanting to go exploring Night City with camera in hand, or worried that there wouldn't be sufficient ways of seeing your custom V outside of the odd cutscene, it's indeed going to be a thing.

[Mister Pink]

Being a photographer, I love photo-modes in any games. I expect I'll be taking lots of photos in C2077. I'm glad that it's another element we can see ourselves. 

[trip]

I have to get one thing off my chest.  I'm not sure if I'm the only one, I'm too lazy to read this thread back far enough. 

 

While watching that long gameplay video I noticed that the crowd peds seem to clip through each other without any interactions.  I hope that isnt the case at release, and I hope they can still keep the size. 

 

 

[Commander S]

That, and there's that one guy who keeps talking after getting his legs and face blown off...

 

I suspect they'll fix both, considering that those little flubs have been nit-picked extensively already - in that way, it's probably no bad thing that they ended up showing off the WIP thing (even if they'd have preferred not to in an ideal world), because it's a good way for them to gauge what little things might have slipped through the proverbial net, and yet still stand out when put in front of players.

 

I'm okay hand-waving the odd bit of cosmetic jank, personally - if it doesn't suck me out of the experience, brick my machine, or prevent me from doing things in the game properly, then it's not the end of the world. But considering CDPR's track record, I'd just chalk it up to it being a rough build, not oversights from the team.

 

Btw, it's the 30th anniversary of the original RPG, and "Maximum" Mike recorded a cool little video message to mark the occasion:

 

 

 

(and if anyone else thinks "wow, he's got a great/distinctive public speaking voice!", apparently he's recorded lines for Dexter DeShawn, which means I think he'll actually be voicing the character in the final game, even though the demo had someone else doing the dialogue for now)

[CrysisAverted]

rainy night gameplay when

[Dryspace]

@CrysisAverted

 

Exactly.

 

I don't have a problem with daytime gameplay--I'm not of the opinion that daylight would completely ruin a cyberpunk game.

 

But I really think that, if there is a normal 24-hour diurnal cycle, that most of the days should be overcast, often heavily overcast, with a healthy average rainfall--and that bright, sunny days should be an anomaly; something that truly stands out and lends a unique atmosphere of its own to the world when it occurs.

 

But that falls under the heading of things that I think would make a game better, but not ruin a game if absent.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Dryspace
Clarification

[Dryspace]

On 8/31/2018 at 4:48 AM, trip said:

I noticed that the crowd peds seem to clip through each other without any interactions.  I hope that isnt the case at release, and I hope they can still keep the size.

I'm basically 100% positive that the NPCs won't just walk through each other. We have to remember that this is just something that they hurriedly cobbled together in order to show the gameplay that they knew many people have been wanting to see for literally years. If this were expected to release any time soon, then there would indeed be legitimate cause for concern, but there is clearly a lot yet to be done.

 

One thing about population size: It depends on just how much the average NPC has to do with core gameplay versus atmosphere. I think, for example, that it's definitely possible that variables like population size and NPC variation could be increased for the PC, and perhaps for the One X and Pro, as a result of increased HW resources. But that doesn't mean that it would be done. And if not, we'd probably have to use the very inaccurate yardstick of the highest population densities for any One/PS4 game to date.

[Jerking For Soup]

Hope you have the choice to not have Jackie as a companion. His dialogue is super annoying tbh.

[Commander S]

5 minutes ago, Jerking For Soup said:

Hope you have the choice to not have Jackie as a companion. His dialogue is super annoying tbh.

They've said that it varies - sometimes you'll have an NPC back you up (a specific mission contact, one of your professional buddies like Jackie, etc.), while other times (and presumably for open-world exploration) you'll be on your own. Sounds more or less the same as GTA V, where folks like Lamar didn't follow you around all the time.

 

But yeah, I hope they tighten up the dialogue - and people have already pointed out that Jackie's dialogue is very much that 'write stuff in English and then shove one of a handful of native-language words or phrases over and over again' approach...   I get that, definitely - same as how one of my sci-fi pet peeves is the old 'take an English phrase and swap/add a space-sounding word to make it sound space-y', like the episode of Star Trek Discovery with "isik for your thoughts?" as an "old Vulcan saying" (), or one of the movies having someone use the simile "blind as a Tiberian bat"...

 

It's not a deal-breaker, sure - but it certainly wouldn't hurt for them to aim higher. Same as how nearly everyone in the demo sounds like a 14-year-old's idea of an edgy badass - one thing I liked about Mass Effect and the like was that you had a real broad range of moods and angles when it came to characterisation and whatnot, compared to something like GTA V, where most characters were over-the-top, one-note, ranty assholes, which wore out my patience/interest really fast.

[Pocket Fox]

35 minutes ago, Commander S said:

They've said that it varies - sometimes you'll have an NPC back you up (a specific mission contact, one of your professional buddies like Jackie, etc.), while other times (and presumably for open-world exploration) you'll be on your own. Sounds more or less the same as GTA V, where folks like Lamar didn't follow you around all the time.

 

But yeah, I hope they tighten up the dialogue - and people have already pointed out that Jackie's dialogue is very much that 'write stuff in English and then shove one of a handful of native-language words or phrases over and over again' approach...   I get that, definitely - same as how one of my sci-fi pet peeves is the old 'take an English phrase and swap/add a space-sounding word to make it sound space-y', like the episode of Star Trek Discovery with "isik for your thoughts?" as an "old Vulcan saying" (), or one of the movies having someone use the simile "blind as a Tiberian bat"...

 

It's not a deal-breaker, sure - but it certainly wouldn't hurt for them to aim higher. Same as how nearly everyone in the demo sounds like a 14-year-old's idea of an edgy badass - one thing I liked about Mass Effect and the like was that you had a real broad range of moods and angles when it came to characterisation and whatnot, compared to something like GTA V, where most characters were over-the-top, one-note, ranty assholes, which wore out my patience/interest really fast.

 

Sounds like you could pull the arms off a Gundark.

 

As Carrie-Fisher said, it was a challenge to read lines written for a space-opera and convey dramatic impact.

[Zello]

56 minutes ago, Jerking For Soup said:

Hope you have the choice to not have Jackie as a companion. His dialogue is super annoying tbh.

He reminds me of Cyborg Canadian Mexican Stan from American dad lol

[Chang]

From what I've seen so far, looks epic.

 

But there just has to be a well done third person view to go with.

 

they got plenty of time until 2019.

 

 I Chang

[Pocket Fox]

Well, maybe the PC community will release a TPP mod.

 

I'm fine with first person, but I'd like a lot of the interactions to drop away to third person so we can see our character.

[Dryspace]

23 minutes ago, Am Shaegar said:

The World of Cyberpunk 2077 Will React To How You Dress and Customize Your Character

 

This is interesting. This had occurred to me when we were discussing the subject of third-person perspective. I had said:

 

"In reality, a lot of people enjoy buying and wearing clothes, yet we can't see ourselves as we walk around. We can see mirrors occasionally, and look down at ourselves, both of which should be possible in this game if their technology is at least at 2010-level. And a large aspect of clothing in reality is the impressions of and reactions others have to you--the difference between wearing a jogging suit and a business suit. That is something that would be a very interesting aspect in an RPG."

 

Is this really something that is unexplored in games to any significant degree of complexity?

[Mister Pink]

I love that what we wear will play a role. Because most of us do this every day. Whether it's wearing that nice tie because you have an important meeting or you just want to look good for the new club you are joining or job you are in or whatever. It matters and it has an effect in real life. It's also something I value in real life too so translating whatever it is, to a cyberpunk RPG will be very interesting. 

 

Last time I encountered something like that is in San Andreas. Certain dates liked certain clothes. And successful dates meant rewards. 

 

The only other game I play now,  where clothing really means something is Hitman and that's as a disguise. It's all good customizing your character and wearing the clothing you like but when it there's actually some purpose and use for them, it's really interesting and fun. 

 

Even in GTA, I would kind of role-play in SP story by wearing suits to Mafia guys that give me jobs or if I knew I was spending time in the countryside in SA, I would blend-in and dress like a local. Can't wait to see what it's like in Cyberpunk.

[Creed Bratton]

1 hour ago, Mister Pink said:

I love that what we wear will play a role. Because most of us do this every day. Whether it's wearing that nice tie because you have an important meeting or you just want to look good for the new club you are joining or job you are in or whatever. It matters and it has an effect in real life. It's also something I value in real life too so translating whatever it is, to a cyberpunk RPG will be very interesting.

Stats definitely exist in real life. People just don't think about them in those terms. If they did there'd be a lot less obese people, I can guarantee it

Edited September 5, 2018 by Darth Yokel

[Dr.Rosenthal]

This has probably been discussed, but during the 45-ish minute gameplay reveal - did anyone else get a bit surprised by how (at least) one enemy continued talking even though he's gotten his head blown away?

 

That, and (and this goes out to the whole video game industry): If I use a shotgun to blast someone's legs off, that won't kill him instantly. Oh how I wish more developers understood this. If I want the enemy to shut up I shoot him in the face. If I shoot both his legs off, he should be screaming in pain for a good minute at least before he passes out and dies. No?

[vashekk]

1 hour ago, Dr.Rosenthal said:

This has probably been discussed, but during the 45-ish minute gameplay reveal - did anyone else get a bit surprised by how (at least) one enemy continued talking even though he's gotten his head blown away?

 

That, and (and this goes out to the whole video game industry): If I use a shotgun to blast someone's legs off, that won't kill him instantly. Oh how I wish more developers understood this. If I want the enemy to shut up I shoot him in the face. If I shoot both his legs off, he should be screaming in pain for a good minute at least before he passes out and dies. No?

That screaming guy was still alive after his legs got shot off. And talking after getting head blown off is most likely going to be fixed.

[Jason]

Yea the talking headless guy was just a glitch, the demo had a few glitches here and there, nothing to worry about it.

 

I'm super curious what any online stuff will be, seeing as they're talking about it for post-launch. Feel like just doing a deathmatch mode would be kinda underwhelming and wouldn't take advantage of what will make the game good (ie RPG, open world, etc).

[Dr.Rosenthal]

1 hour ago, the_potato said:

That screaming guy was still alive after his legs got shot off. And talking after getting head blown off is most likely going to be fixed.

 

Alright phew, good, guess I wasn’t paying enough attention then.

 

Gotta say apart from my complaints I found the gameplay trailer very impressive. Looks like there’ll be countless dimensions to it.

[Mister Pink]

Bug/glitch aside, that guy getting his head blown off and his legs was brutal. Glad CDPR push the boundaries of gore/graphic violence a bit.

[Jason]

They could maybe go really all out with the gore/brutality, what with all the cybernetic implants and all that. Killing people but cybernetic implants still continue working for a bit, meaning they continue to move, or maybe even speak, before dropping dead.

[Dryspace]

@Jason

 

That's an interesting subject. But as @Dr.Rosenthal pointed out, cybernetics aside, realism in the areas of AI and physics has definitely not kept pace with graphical realism*. In other words, the way that enemies (human, anyway) behave when being shot, or even shot at, is very primitive.

 

How many games exist in which an enemy does not die immediately or within seconds of receiving the final magic bullet? How many games exist in which enemies are incapacitated by attacks, rather than simply HP-depleted? And in those in which incapacitation does exist, in how many is the damage physics-based and localized, rather than based on a simple look-up table?

 

I consider these things important, because they can change the way a person plays a game. The decision between stealth/nonlethal and assault becomes more meaningful when you have to actually consider the reality of watching--and listening--to a man bleed out. Likewise, if a player, under constant threat of death, wants to shoot first and ask questions later, or attempt to take men out but not kill them whenever possible, that's his choice. Each player must decide--in each separate situation--whether he is doing a guy a favor by making him stare at his mangled kneecap for possibly three hours before help arrives, or just killing him instantly.

 

As it stands, we are not encouraged or incentivized to think of on-screen enemies as anything resembling humanity. To forestall one concern, though: Violence/gore adjustments have existed in games for decades, and there is no reason that the "behavioral realism" of enemies should not be subject to player adjustment as well.

 

*I have often heard the assertion in defense of consoles "I care more about gameplay than graphics". It should be of concern, then, to the console gamer that in the 10 years since the last AAA PC game was released (Crysis 2007), the only real technological advances in gaming have been graphical, with AI, physics, and audio simulation--aspects which actually open up new gameplay possibilities--remaining for the most part at 10-year-old levels (or 20, in the case of audio simulation).

Edited September 7, 2018 by Dryspace
Typo