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BullworthAcademy

Cyberpunk 2077

Recommended Posts

Grae

Yeah, such a protagonist is the best bet. And if at E3, maybe just tidbits.

 

Also, I wonder if CDPR committed to the language translation feature - from the current Wikipedia page which unfortunately sources old, vague articles:

 

Quote
It is set in an open world metropolis called Night City, whose inhabitants communicate in non-English languages. Players who do not speak the languages can buy translator implants to better comprehend them; depending on the advancement of the implants, the quality of translations will vary, with more expensive implants rendering more accurate translations.

 

Hmm. Not too many games have "that", meaning alternative, unique dialogue.

I believe the most extensive ones are Arcanum (Intelligence 5+ vs <5) and VTM Bloodlines (the "insane" Malkavian clan - very different from the rest of the clans). Both were made by ex- Fallout 1 & 2 devs*, as *Obsidian kind of carried on in New Vegas. Altho the others relevantly scale a bit and have good moments, VTMB is arguably best with (much) more dialogue that, while less reactive or consequential, has cleverer exposition and better acting. I'm unaware of other games as extensive (well, except this, lol). Bioware attempted dumbspeak in NWN1 but it's only our character's text, no responses from any NPCs AFAIK, and they ditched it in the expansions. Obsidian didn't do it in NWN2, tho decently a few years later (not on F1&2's levels, yet closer to them than F3; F2's is the best of those, and Arcanum is a notch or two above F2, IIRC). (This paragraph is sloppy, as it's been several years since I played some of them, and my struggle/laziness to find good comparison vids.)

Put such stuff with a different class/style, good C&C, etc., and I got me another great playthrough. I'm not forgetting the rest, like the Nosferatu clan's ugliness (which NPCs react to), Silver Shroud, or Overseer First Citizen Lynette's dialogue mechanics - the latter mentioned by a CDPR guy in an old article I failed to dig up. And I realise this feature could be very different, possibly even better. Instead of real languages, maybe CDPR would use and expand Witcher's semi-fake languages? :p Also possible that development might be stretched, making this too shallow (less interaction, more background fluff), it could be a logistical nightmare or a feature they simply don't want, so I shouldn't get hyped...

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1972

So far, I can tell that the expectations are incredibly high for this game. Just remember, Cyberpunk may be or may not be the "biggest game of the generation". I have faith in the studio for sure, but sooner or later it's time to put the Witcher 3 glasses off. Don't overhype yourself yet. It never leads to anything good. Witcher 3 took us by surprise and caught attention of people who were new to the series. Because the studio gave us one golden child, it doesn't mean their every game will be a storm like the Witcher 3.

 

Overhype leads to complaining, a lot of it. We were hyped for the release of GTA5 for years and it didn't take long for people start bitching ang moaning about everything. People already say the game should be like this and that. We haven't seen anything and yet I can already tell some people will complain no matter what the end product might be. I'm not pointing my finger at anyone: just the internet in general. It's hard to not be hyped for a game made by the creators of W3, I'm trying to keep it down, think not too much what the game might be and just let it come in time.

 

 

Anyways, I'm a fan of the recent Deus Ex games and my guess is that a sequel to Mankind Divided is coming sooner or later due to the cliffhanger and I wonder if Cyberpunk will beat it. I don't know what other game series we can compare it to. Deus Ex is a series that is going on since years. It's gonna be a challenge to beat it.

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Grae

While W3 is in my top 10, it's not flawless; none are, as many blows are traded and a lot is incomparable. Honestly, I want them to cut back some things, like a significantly smaller map(s) and fewer quests, in exchange for better gameplay and increased quest depth, but not crazy depth, just more options/paths here and there. I'd also love it if such reductions meant having something inspired by W2's branching paths (around the city instead), and if it still meant a shorter main questline, that's okay, assuming it has good replayability and is decently written. I'm sure lots of people would launch into tirades from merely glancing at the words "smaller", "fewer", "shorter", and I'd laugh at them (given those improvements as said - if not, then, well, ^#+%!). We'll see.

Anywho...

Wild speculation, ahoy! :pirate:

Suppose the translation thing is a thing, with 2 or 3 translation quality levels including having no implant I guess. None/cheap/good or just none/good? I think none/cheap/decent/perfect is asking way too much. However, ideally I could complete the storyline and relevant side quests by sticking with no/cheap implant, and that playthrough would be decently distinct along with a unique class/style etc. Scenario ideas:

  • Early-ish, when having the best implant is unlikely, tho technically possible, we meet two guys, [grandiose foreign name] and Bob. [Grandiose foreign name] has info for a price, doesn't speak our language and is a bit shy (d'aww). So Bob translates, omits info and raises the price. With no implant, we have to accept Bob's bullsh*t, or kill, which gains us some unique loot but [grandiose foreign name] kills himself and all the info isn't recorded. A cheap implant allows us to half-assedly call out Bob, resulting in full info or low price. Good implant = humiliate Bob and get all info + low price. The extra info would probably be access to an alternative route, a stash, etc.
  • When implantless, some interactions could be limited to NPCs ignoring, cursing or fighting us. Cheap implants might occasionally have very clever mistranslations and unique quest branches. Maybe once have a hilariously unrealistic series of coincidences sparked from a mistranslation of a simple phrase. I'm struggling to concisely describe a good scenario, but just imagine a crescendo of crazy sh*t poppin' off, ending with us waking up alone, naked and drunk in a hotel room, a few new/missing/malfunctioning upgrades, the TV and sheets stolen, an ironic foreign song playing on a clock radio, and we bump into a foreign housekeeper who either gets angry and calls the cops or gives us a tip about our stolen gear...
  • A minor interaction with an illegal weapons/upgrades dealer whose futuristic answering machine spits a foreign message complaining about product quality, and the good implant unlocks a dialogue option to get a discount while the cheap implant's option causes a funny little argument.

Overall, maybe a few relatively major interactions (Bob, hotel), several minor interactions, and lots of background talk. The latter doesn't have to be fluff, as it may occasionally provide useful info or spark quests (cheap implant somehow misleads). Or how about situations where we'd eavesdrop on conversations, even within their sight by pretending we don't have an implant by acting like we're a tourist or disguising ourselves as a local hobo....and they could...and we...and...

...Oh, for f*ck's sake. :miranda:

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Leftist Bastard

W2's branching paths just don't work with anything short of a linear game. As long as 2077 is open world in any capacity, I don't think we'll see a repeat of the Roche/Iorveth choice.

 

And that's alright, I don't mind it personally.

 

EDIT: Mankind Divided getting a sequel anytime soon is doubtful at the moment but I don't think CDPR will be able to capture the mechanical intricacy of a DE game. Basically I think Cyberpunk might have better writing, story and possibly world design but I doubt they'll beat DE's gameplay.

Edited by Leftist Bastard

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Grae

On the DX (DE doesn't sound as cool) comparison, I do agree. I'd be happy with a balance on gameplay, so deeper than W3's design but shallower than DX, speaking of our Cyberpunk character(s) and across the likely big open world. I just think relatively, and in certain ways as you said, it could be very interesting overall.

 

I remember an old interview where Warren Spector said the DX1 team thought about making different paths between UNATCO and the NSF & co., as choices after a while. I'd really like something similar-ish here, and I meant the W2 inspiration looser. I'm mainly thinking of potential adaptions of roles/classes having different beginning locations and quests before probably meeting at the same point early in the storyline, and later the storyline could branch between factions (each open to all classes, possibly some unique dialogue etc.) with their own sets of quests, safehouses and such. Something like that. Or maybe only one beginning in favor of an open, classless system; and still, I'm sure the best bet for any branching paths will be in the smaller questlines, so hopefully they'll improve that anyway.

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Typhus

I have to be honest, the glut of sh*tty FPS games has given me this instant distrust of futuristic/sci-fi games in general. So I don't know if I'll ever pick this up, if it's going to be like Fallout and just focus on shooting everything.

But that being said, what could really turn me around is if we are able to create our own character - and actually be a non-humanoid robot. Like, if they really went in depth with it, and you were able to be solar powered or made from scrap parts, and could upgrade yourself as the game went on.

Because I'd really rather not play as some bland human character. If it's set in the future, allow us to actually play a character that matches the fantastical atmosphere.

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ARTHUR.

By non-humanoid robot, do you mean some wall-e looking motherf*cker? sorry to disappoint you but I think the robot we'll play as will look very humanoid regardless if we create them or not.

The robot being human looking, makes it easier to relate to and easier to familiarise ourselves with whatever situation they're in, garnering more sympathy from the player.

 

Something like this would give us a playable window to a whole new philosophy, how thin the line can be between artificial and natural life. Ex Machina did this very well.

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Leftist Bastard

Yeah cyberpunk is all about high tech, low life. Robotics aren't inhuman like something out of Star Wars they're usually applied to actual humans or in the case of fully artificial androids it's more along the lines of Blade Runner's replicants. The defining nature of humanity and what it means to be human is a BIG part of the genre too, which is why you often see humanoids versus more tech-y sci fi stuff.

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Typhus

By non-humanoid robot, do you mean some wall-e looking motherf*cker? sorry to disappoint you but I think the robot we'll play as will look very humanoid regardless if we create them or not.

The robot being human looking, makes it easier to relate to and easier to familiarise ourselves with whatever situation they're in, garnering more sympathy from the player.

 

Something like this would give us a playable window to a whole new philosophy, how thin the line can be between artificial and natural life. Ex Machina did this very well.

In truth, I was really hoping for something like Robbie The Robot from Forbidden Planet.

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1972

If anyone's interested in the whole android-robot thing - I recommend Nier Automata. Though it's a game I'd recommend to anyone. Not going to spoil a thing but it really nails the contrast between just a robot and what it means to be human. The story was outstanding. Make sure to play through it 3 times to get the 5 major endings.

Heard the PC version had some trouble so the steam ranking might be sh*t but it's in my top 3 games ever. My PS4 GOTY.

 

I hope cyberpunk pulls of something similar in terms of androids and emotions. It'll never quite reach what Automata did though. It had a certain contrast between the main human shaped android who tries to deny any sign of emotion and the alien created robots who look like pathetic machines but feel and express every emotion.

I can't praise that game enough.

 

 

Building up your robot from scratch and upgrading yourself sounds great on paper, though I think a game like that would suffer from all kinds of balancing problems. I'll be more than happy to just roam a dark metropolis with my customized android, apply a bunch of upgrades and make significant decisions throughout a gripping story and side quests.

 

Cyberpunk almost gives me a boner the more I think about it lol

Edited by fashion

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1972

I feel this needs a bump, as there's an interesting issue. CD Project is in trouble:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CDPROJEKTRED/status/872840969795899394

 

Someone has stolen old Cyberpunk files and blackmails the studio. If they go to the cops, the info will be leaked.

 

I like how strong the stand against it and are going to take legal action anyways. The info is outdated and not representative of their current vision of cyberpunk.

 

I hope this won't hurt the production of the game in any way. Even if outdated, the leaked info could be interesting if released. It's a shame it's stolen info and is used as blackmail material but I honestly would read it if it appears online.

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sivispacem

That's not that bad to be honest. If it's early alpha builds, then leaks could do them more good than harm by stoking more interest in the title.

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Lubas

In my opinion, if the leaks got surfaced.

 

The thing is the people who sees it will have opinions on the leak.

Whether it being positive or negative, it influence CDPR in a way to do something about it

 

In the case if the part of the leak is still going to the final game.

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1972

I don't know what to think. A CD Project reveal should be the way to learn the first info. There's a reason why they aren't showing anything anytime soon. But when it drops it's going to be huge and I'm sure it's going to be something unexpected.

 

If everyone reads an alpha stage leak then we will know what to expect more or less. CDP is going to loose the element of surprise, unless the game will turn out to be something entirely different.

 

Now imagine the sh*tstorm that would appear if the alpha game leak on paper has many great ideas that won't make it into the final game.

 

Most people, me included, will probably read any kind of info appearing online.

Edited by fashion

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Mister Pink

Yeah that's really unfair for the developers. Out of principle, it's their project and they shouldn't have to accept anything less than what they want to show. As someone who has worked in creative industries, when I was younger and more naive. I hated when clients asked to see raw photos or footage. If you should stupidly decide to show a client unfinished work, there's no amount of disclaiming you can do before you see negative reactions, doubt or uncertainty in the client. This will happen here. People will jump on to critique the game regardless of if they know it's old leaked data.

 

I imagine the anxiety CDPR are feeling now, not just about what fans may think of unfinished work but how they may look to their contemporaries in the industry. In design and creative industries, there's always a crippling self-doubt, at least in my experience from individuals, no matter how talented they are. You are your work and if you pursuit a professional life in a creative industry, you are usually driven by a personal passion for art and craft of your profession.

 

I hope it gets resolved for them the best way they can hope for. Worst case scenario, the ransomers release documents about Cyberpunk and it forces CDPR's hand. They'll really just have to reiterate that what got released is not final and may or may not be in the game.

 

On the positive side, CDPR may get early feedback of the leak from the public about some game mechanism or art direction and it will give them a chance to correct it.

 

But on the real negative side, there could also be some info on some real innovative gaming feature that they hoped to be the first to present to the gaming community which could now be leaked.

 

Edit: Most likely a good marketing campaign.

 

 

Edited by Mister Pink

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BUT THE BENZ

I want to play this game, it looks promising and with the right combat could be a big thing, for me personally at least. hopefully the devs can go ahead undisturbed, seriously what kind of douchebags blackmail videogame developers?!

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Mister Pink

As in the video above, it was most likely a marketing stunt.

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1972

Not actual news about the game itself in case you had your hopes up. A letter from CDPR regarding studio departures and development procedures:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/CDPROJEKTRED/status/919885993171398656

 

For us gamers, this is good news to know Cyberpunk will be the best thing CDPR can possibly do. They're putting everything they can into this project. If all goes well without sudden studio crashes, greedy people taking over or god knows what else, Cyberpunk will be a 10/10 game. Max effort and innovation is the motto of the company.

 

It's a shame people come and go but working in a studio like this, you must have a vision, a passion and have a lot to endure. I can imagine the workers work day and night under high stress.

 

It's not coming anytime soon.

Edited by fashion

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TheOneLibertonian

I'm very happy that CDPR assures us gamers that despite internal problems within the studio that they are going strong and confidently deliver a great game.

 

Ever since watching Blade Runner 2049, I'm really itching to get a small taste of the game since we are slowly getting closer and closer to release, but it's still quite far for us to get major info about it. I'm keeping my hopes high and seeing a open world RPG about a futuristic dystopian world with neon lighting, cybernetic enhancements, augmentations, synth music, neo-noir, big japanese inspired corporations, and RAIN!

 

One of the intriguing characteristics with Cyberpunk are it's themes. Cyberpunk is about humanity is losing it's edge of what it takes to be human and submitting themselves with technology with cybernetic implants. Like with Ghost in the Shell, I find deep resonance being part of a world full of chaos, psychopaths, and crazies with not just ourselves surviving, but also humanity as well.

 

I know it will take a long time till we get proper information, but I'm keeping my fingers cross for a potentially exciting game!

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Veroder

tumblr_ojfdd0yXpm1uvpvrno1_400.gif

From NeoGAF:

From 30 Reviews
CD Projekt Red has a rating of 3.1 Stars.
46% would recommend a friend to work there
15% approve of the CEO Adam Badowski

As a comparison:
From 778 reviews
Ubisoft has a ranking of 3.8
85% would recommend a friend to work there
98% approve of CEO Yves Guillemot

From 1668 reviews
EA has 3.9 stars
82% would recommend
95% approve of CEO Andrew Wilson

Reviews range from Dec 2012 untill early this year. Some common threads are as follows:
- Middle management is heavily criticized for not being in tune with gamers and not listening/trusting their employees
- Talent is often lost due to pressure, low salary, bullying and bad decisions
- Long working hours, sometimes paid, sometimes not
- Fake milestones to increase pressure
- Bonus system that is biased towards middle management
- Broken and outdated tools
- Studio has grown too large/too fast (Lack of skill/training/experience in new hires)
- Lack of planning/vision (This would lead credence to the rumor that they scrapped all Cyberpunk pre-production work from prior to 2016)
- No investment in employees
- Constant renovations at the office causing chaos
- Work tends to be lost or done in vain
- Employees aren't kept in the loop of the production schedule
- Culture of blame
- Erratic/absent CEO who "doesn't even like games"

A couple choice quotes from "Advice to Management" section that seems to be in line with the consensus,
"Hire somebody with actual management experience to help this company change. Without this, in five years nobody will want to work at CDPRed."
"Crunch here is insane. We read about Bungie's crunch and ME: Andromeda crunch and laugh. And crunch will hit this current project hard."

"Just retire or focus on family. Please leave making games to people who actually play them, make them and love them."

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Mister Pink

I read about this news the other day. I was going to post about it but I know people get hyped when the topic is bumped, been scorned once all ready for posting news that didn't sing praise of development or have more game news :p

 

@TheOneLibertonian: If you haven't seen my post in the Blade Runner topic in Movies & TV, I posted a link about an article comparing similarities with Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and Human Revolution to Blade Runner. I seen the film the other night and was craving a game like it. Deus Ex is the closest game to Blade Runner, I think.

http://gtaforums.com/topic/876182-blade-runner-2049/?p=1069887240

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Hit by Lightning

I think 3 things need to be considered here:

1- We used to read Glassdoor without registration. Now, you need to register and even write a review just to read.

2- Many big studios have been attacked in this site in the past. A few of them "as far as I know" acknowledged such reviews. Anyone can write anything. The fact that CDPR replied means they were triggered and some of these "fake" reviews might be real.

3- Glassdoor is nothing more than an extortion site.

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Candy_Licker

I think 3 things need to be considered here:

1- We used to read Glassdoor without registration. Now, you need to register and even write a review just to read.

2- Many big studios have been attacked in this site in the past. A few of them "as far as I know" acknowledged such reviews. Anyone can write anything. The fact that CDPR replied means they were triggered and some of these "fake" reviews might be real.

3- Glassdoor is nothing more than an extortion site.

Yeah, most of the big studios have had very similar accusations levelled at them, especially R*. Let's be real, (self-)exploitation has become a thing in many "western" countries. Sadly the gaming industry is one of the worse offenders it seems.

 

 

I think 3 things need to be considered here:

1- We used to read Glassdoor without registration. Now, you need to register and even write a review just to read.

2- Many big studios have been attacked in this site in the past. A few of them "as far as I know" acknowledged such reviews. Anyone can write anything. The fact that CDPR replied means they were triggered and some of these "fake" reviews might be real.

3- Glassdoor is nothing more than an extortion site.

Yeah, most of the big studios have had very similar accusations levelled at them, especially R*. Let's be real, (self-)exploitation has become a thing in many "western" countries. Sadly the gaming industry is one of the worse offenders it seems.

 

 

tumblr_ojfdd0yXpm1uvpvrno1_400.gif

 

From NeoGAF:

 

From 30 Reviews

CD Projekt Red has a rating of 3.1 Stars.

46% would recommend a friend to work there

15% approve of the CEO Adam Badowski

 

As a comparison:

From 778 reviews

Ubisoft has a ranking of 3.8

85% would recommend a friend to work there

98% approve of CEO Yves Guillemot

 

From 1668 reviews

EA has 3.9 stars

82% would recommend

95% approve of CEO Andrew Wilson

 

Reviews range from Dec 2012 untill early this year. Some common threads are as follows:

- Middle management is heavily criticized for not being in tune with gamers and not listening/trusting their employees

- Talent is often lost due to pressure, low salary, bullying and bad decisions

- Long working hours, sometimes paid, sometimes not

- Fake milestones to increase pressure

- Bonus system that is biased towards middle management

- Broken and outdated tools

- Studio has grown too large/too fast (Lack of skill/training/experience in new hires)

- Lack of planning/vision (This would lead credence to the rumor that they scrapped all Cyberpunk pre-production work from prior to 2016)

- No investment in employees

- Constant renovations at the office causing chaos

- Work tends to be lost or done in vain

- Employees aren't kept in the loop of the production schedule

- Culture of blame

- Erratic/absent CEO who "doesn't even like games"

 

A couple choice quotes from "Advice to Management" section that seems to be in line with the consensus,

"Hire somebody with actual management experience to help this company change. Without this, in five years nobody will want to work at CDPRed."

"Crunch here is insane. We read about Bungie's crunch and ME: Andromeda crunch and laugh. And crunch will hit this current project hard."

"Just retire or focus on family. Please leave making games to people who actually play them, make them and love them."

 

Well you can see the differences in the games. But glassdoor is, like mentioned above, not really trustworthy. Who would stop EA/Ubi from doing fake positive reviews for example? 30 reviews vs 800 also distorts the comparison.

 

If you rapidly double the studio size like CDPR, there's bound to be some chaos and dissatisfied employees who will be gone again after a short time.

Edited by Candy_Licker

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Mister Pink

I know we have little info regarding the game but maybe we can try steer the topic back to the game itself and less about the accuracy and validity of employee review sites. Thanks :)

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Leftist Bastard

It's amazing how quickly gamers become corporate apologists when it's a studio making a game they like and not evil Ubisoft or Activision. Yes, your favorite game studio might be run by incompetent people - you can agree to that and agree that they make great games. Quite simply there are too many reviews that state the same issues for this to be handwaved away as bullsh*t - it's clear CDPR is an internal mess.

Edited by Leftist Bastard

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Darth Yokel

Yeah, if CDPR continues on this path they risk becoming the same as every other AAA publisher/developer. If they're not being run by people who enjoy games then they're not the company that many gamers thought they were. They need to fix their sh*t.

Edited by The Yokel

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Veroder

 

 

The plot thickens.

Edited by Veroder

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Mister Pink

Wow, so much info in that video. I would be surprised if we see this game before 2021. Cyberpunk 2077's development sounds abysmal all round. A real disaster. Actually worse than I originally thought.

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Darth Yokel

We've seen nothing but a single CGI trailer in years. It certainly doesn't look good for them.

 

Still, these guys managed to create the best game that I've ever played, despite how disorganized they seem to be. I can't even imagine what they'd be able to do if they were organized and disciplined.

Edited by The Yokel

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BUT THE BENZ

CDPR not disciplined and not organized....tsss what a schmock thing to say

Edited by Noclue_42

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