Debunking that map size compairsion pic.

[Gtaghost22]

 

Panau City's Airport is small, really really small, a deathmatch would never even remotely work in there

 

 

 

You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. The airport is NOT small, and it IS the most popular arena for JC2 multiplayer murder mayhem.

 

 

I think the point of that image whether Playaindahood's measurements are 100% accurate or not is that the "Biggest Video Game Worlds" pic means nothing, it is just a load of horsesh*t.

 

Yes, Playaindahood's pic, the one the OP used is not that accurate too, but it is a lot more accurate than that retarded "Biggest Video Game Worlds" picture that everyone uses all the goddamn time.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Gtaghost22

[dooshtoomun]

Very good work on this, TC.

 

Now we know that GTA 5's map has potential to be the size of JC2's!.

 

 

[killahmatic]

You wanna know what I think?

 

Who give a sh*t?!

This is going to be the largest GTA we've ever seen. Thats all that matters.

[inflamedeyeball]

The comparison pic in the OP was posted here before, only last time it was actually made by the creator of it; playaindahood.

 

He was proven wrong by Magic_Al.

 

It's a good read.

[Gtaghost22]

 

The comparison pic in the OP was posted here before, only last time it was actually made by the creator of it; playaindahood.

 

He was proven wrong by Magic_Al.

 

It's a good read.

Even if Playaindahood's measurements are not 100% accurate, he is absolutely spot on in proving that "Biggest Video Games World" pic is highly inaccurate, and Yes, it's a good read indeed. Thanks for posting that.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Gtaghost22

[Magic_Al]

Do all of those games give in-game distance stats like Rockstar's do? If you can measure a straight-line distance from one place on the map to another place on the map, and you can put your starting and ending points on a picture of the map, then you can calculate the scale of the map. If this was done for all those maps then a (more) accurate comparison could be made.

 

Measurements alone can only be as accurate as the stats. For example, a game like GTAIV only gives distances in hundreds of a mile precision. That means any point-to-point measurement in-game has a 32-meter margin of error. You need to make several measurements of different distances, compare the scales you end up with from those, and make a leap of logic what the real, nice-round-number resolution of the map image is, which is probably something logical and not totally random, for example the GTAIV and RDR map images are 1 meter per pixel, because that makes sense. Why would they make it something randomly close to that instead of exactly that, especially when Rockstar has been using meters as their in-game coordinate units since GTA3.

[Shaunr]

Sorry, your comparison is way off. A quick way to tell is by comparing the Panau International Airport which is AT LEAST the same size as Liberty City Airport, if not larger. Yet on your map it is dwarfed by the latter.

for something like that, I mean you're comparing two different airports, you're going to have to give me something truly similar to compare otherwise your measurements are going to be very off.

[Njale]

The comparison is just not right

[VitoJoe]

Do all of those games give in-game distance stats like Rockstar's do? If you can measure a straight-line distance from one place on the map to another place on the map, and you can put your starting and ending points on a picture of the map, then you can calculate the scale of the map. If this was done for all those maps then a (more) accurate comparison could be made.

 

Measurements alone can only be as accurate as the stats. For example, a game like GTAIV only gives distances in hundreds of a mile precision. That means any point-to-point measurement in-game has a 32-meter margin of error. You need to make several measurements of different distances, compare the scales you end up with from those, and make a leap of logic what the real, nice-round-number resolution of the map image is, which is probably something logical and not totally random, for example the GTAIV and RDR map images are 1 meter per pixel, because that makes sense. Why would they make it something randomly close to that instead of exactly that, especially when Rockstar has been using meters as their in-game coordinate units since GTA3.

I want a simple answer, is there a chance GTA V's map will be smaller than 20 sq miles? I know you said before you predict it will be 28 sq miles which is good enough imo, now is there anyway using your calculations that V's map will be less than 20 sq miles, or is it guarentted that it will be at least 20 sq miles if not more? Thanks.

[Intstringeger]

Panau City's Airport is small, really really small, a deathmatch would never even remotely work in there

 

 

 

You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. The airport is NOT small, and it IS the most popular arena for JC2 multiplayer murder mayhem.

 

 

Haven't play Just Cause 2, but judging by that video Panau's airport seems to be half GTA IV's.

[CapitanCarrot]

Sorry, your comparison is way off. A quick way to tell is by comparing the Panau International Airport which is AT LEAST the same size as Liberty City Airport, if not larger. Yet on your map it is dwarfed by the latter.

for something like that, I mean you're comparing two different airports, you're going to have to give me something truly similar to compare otherwise your measurements are going to be very off.

No need for exact measures, your eyes will do just fine. According to your map the LC Airport is 4 times larger than Panau International Airport and that's simply not true.

[Magic_Al]

I want a simple answer, is there a chance GTA V's map will be smaller than 20 sq miles? I know you said before you predict it will be 28 sq miles which is good enough imo, now is there anyway using your calculations that V's map will be less than 20 sq miles, or is it guarentted that it will be at least 20 sq miles if not more? Thanks.

The sum of land area in GTASA, GTAIV, and RDR (in boundaries) is almost 21 square miles. That's removing all water area and all out-of-bounds area in RDR so it's a like a minimum possible size that would fit the description of GTAV's size we've been given. They specifically mentioned including interior spaces in the calculation but I don't imagine there would be a disproportionate amount of interiors compared to previous games.

[Shaunr]

 

Sorry, your comparison is way off. A quick way to tell is by comparing the Panau International Airport which is AT LEAST the same size as Liberty City Airport, if not larger. Yet on your map it is dwarfed by the latter.

for something like that, I mean you're comparing two different airports, you're going to have to give me something truly similar to compare otherwise your measurements are going to be very off.

No need for exact measures, your eyes will do just fine. According to your map the LC Airport is 4 times larger than Panau International Airport and that's simply not true.

Well don't forget the airport in GTA 4 is freaking huge. there's like 6 large planes plus the ones on the track, plus a line of jets, 3 heli pads, a huge parking lot, a train station, and a whole lot more space plus buildings. that airport is huuuuge. you could probably fit ... maybe not 4, but as it turns out you can only fit about 2 1/2 panau airports in there, which seems about right. the IV map may be a tad too big though, but dont forget the point was to debunk that old representation.

 

 

also here's the ~2 1/2 panau airport fitting in GTA 4 airport with the same proportions as I represented earlier. sorry its a bit lazily thrown together, but it's just so you get the idea. it's definitely not 4 of them that will fit. not really 3 .more like 2 1/2, which seems about right liek I said

 

Edited January 5, 2013 by playaindahood

[CapitanCarrot]

also here's the ~2 1/2 panau airport fitting in GTA 4 airport with the same proportions as I represented earlier. sorry its a bit lazily thrown together, but it's just so you get the idea. it's definitely not 4 of them that will fit. not really 3 .more like 2 1/2, which seems about right liek I said

 

I really don't see how you can consider the encircled areas in these images to be the same size. I know the planes in JC2 are quite smaller than the ones in GTA IV, but not THAT much smaller, you can hardly see them in the JC2 image.

 

[Finn 7 five 11]

Bout time somebody corrected the scale a little bit, it's not perfect yet, but it's much closer, Burnout paradise isn't that huge compared to San Andreas, whoever made that f*cking thing is a retard.

[Shaunr]

 

also here's the ~2 1/2 panau airport fitting in GTA 4 airport with the same proportions as I represented earlier. sorry its a bit lazily thrown together, but it's just so you get the idea. it's definitely not 4 of them that will fit. not really 3 .more like 2 1/2, which seems about right liek I said

 

I really don't see how you can consider the encircled areas in these images to be the same size. I know the planes in JC2 are quite smaller than the ones in GTA IV, but not THAT much smaller, you can hardly see them in the JC2 image.

 

damn well that is quite a large area then. looks like the GTA 4 map needs to be reduced by at least 35% perhaps, seeing that the gta 4 part you highlighted could probably fit into the JC2 part you highlighted, 3 times.

[miroman]

This can't be right. GTA V's map is Red Dead, IV and San Andreas maps combined hich gives us approximately 25-30 square miles.

It is known Just Cause 2 is 400 square miles and on the comparison V's map turns out to be almost as large as JC2's, maybe 300 square miles. As far as I know 300=/= 30. I'm not saying the "Large Video Game Worlds" comparison is right, just that both maps are wrong. No offense.

[lefantome]

Good job!

 

So the 1000 sq km of just cause 2 is just bullsh*t?

 

Anyway the bigger proble is the burnout paradise map who doesm't make any sense

[AlienWillHeMonsta]

When ever map size is mentioned I remember this report from 2011 before the first trailer was released

 

http://www.vg247.com/2011/11/05/rumor-supp...azine-employee/

 

 

The game world is absolutely massive and will push both Xbox and PS3 to the very limit in terms of what it has accomplished. Yes, the main city is simply Los Santos however is it AT LEAST 4 times bigger than Liberty City in GTA 4 and that is just Los Santos. The surrounding country side, beaches, etc are massive. For instance, we saw the main character (an African/American, early 30′s) travel by car from the center of Los Santos into the wildnerness and it took over 15 minutes...

 

The details in that report have now been proved 100% accurate so if it takes 15 minutes to drive from Los Santos into the wilderness (not just from one side of the map tp the other) then the map must at least the size of the map for JC2.

 

 

[Miss Darko]

^

GTA V's Los Santos is nowhere near 4 times the size of GTA IV's Liberty City.

[AlienWillHeMonsta]

 

^

GTA V's Los Santos is nowhere near 4 times the size of GTA IV's Liberty City.

But how big is Los Santos and have we seen all of it?

[Miss Darko]

 

^

GTA V's Los Santos is nowhere near 4 times the size of GTA IV's Liberty City.

But how big is Los Santos and have we seen all of it?

Not sure, although we've definitely seen most of it, especially since one entire side is exposed by the Observatory screenshot and the other side appears to be on a slope that will lead to a mountainside, which means the limits of the city can't be too far offscreen. The general consensus of the Mapping Los Santos thread seems to be that it's either about the same size or even a little bit smaller (not just the downtown area either, mind you) than Liberty City. Can they be wrong? Maybe. But I think they're more qualified to say than myself, as they've done a lot more research.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Mr. Darko

[AlienWillHeMonsta]

 

^

GTA V's Los Santos is nowhere near 4 times the size of GTA IV's Liberty City.

But how big is Los Santos and have we seen all of it?

Not sure, although we've definitely seen most of it, especially since one entire side is exposed by the Observatory screenshot and the other side appears to be on a slope that will lead to a mountainside, which means the limits of the city can't be too far offscreen. The general consensus of the Mapping Los Santos thread seems to be that it's either about the same size or even a little bit smaller (not just the downtown area either, mind you) than Liberty City.

Ok the reason why I put this in this thread is because of a screen shot showing Trevor setting fire to a vehicle and he's holding a petrol can

 

http://www.gtagaming.com/v/news/2152

 

another view

 

http://www.rockstargames.com/V/screenshots/screenshot/201

 

Then i remembered back in early days of a report where some mentioned that you could set fire to a trail of petrol leaking from car. I did a search and that lead to this link http://www.vg247.com/2011/11/05/rumor-supp...azine-employee/.

 

They also quoted a 'fake' poster on this forum at the time of the first trailer http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=490646&st=1200

 

So while GTA5RULES may not have been working for a magazine a lot of what he posted has now been shown to be true. Near the bottom of the vg247.com link is a fuzzy map of Los Santos and the surrounding areas. http://images.vg247.com/current//2011/11/l...ap1-111x156.jpg. I dont know if this map has been proved to be fake but if that's just Los Santos central then it looks 2 - 3 times bigger than all of Libery City.

Edited January 5, 2013 by AlienWillHeMonsta

[RockStarNiko]

I have never played Burnout or JC2 so I am unable to do any experimentation to see how big each map is.

 

On the Burnout wiki it states

 

Paradise City has an area of 26 square miles, and approximately 218 miles of drivable road

 

There is a massive difference between 218 miles of road and 200 sq m map.

 

So straight away we know that the 200 sq m is utter nonsense.

 

 

A while ago I worked out how large GTA IV and SA were using the in game measuring statistics

 

GTA IV is ~6 sq m and SA ~14 sq m

 

This is how big each map is according to the in game measuring system that RockStar used

 

 

So, how accurate is this in game measuring system compared to REAL LIFE

 

 

Well, I did a further experiment to find out

 

I loaded up GTA IV, found two taxis and began a very tedious process of measuring the distance between 2 blocks using the two taxis

 

I would get in the first taxi and line it up at my starting point, then get out and get the other taxi and park it bumper to bumper directly in front of the other taxi, I repeated this process until I had got to the end of the 2 blocks distance.

 

The result was 33 taxi lengths.

 

Next I did the exact same experiment in San Andreas.

 

The result was 33 taxi lengths.

 

 

The result of this experiment proves that San Andreas and GTA IV use the exact same scale.

 

 

Finally I could now work out how big the taxis are and see how they compare to real life vehicles

 

The taxi length was ~17 feet.

 

 

So the result of this experiment means that the scaled down worlds of GTA IV and SA are very closely matched to the real world.

 

 

Now the question is, how large is JC2 according to its in game measuring system.

 

If someone has the game they can work it out.

 

And the next question is how does the scaled down world of JC2 compare to the scaled down worlds of GTA IV and SA as well as the real world

 

Same for Burnout and whatever other games on that infamous map comparison diagram

 

 

Just looking at the image of the Burnout Paradise map I do not think that it even looks to be 26 sq m, the roads seem too large. Is it really 5 x 5 miles? San Andreas is less than 4 x 4 miles, Algonquin is not even 2 miles long, so I seriously doubt Burnout is even 26 sq m, let alone the nonsensical figure of 200 sq m.

 

 

Finally, "JC2 is 400 sq m" is a phrase that gets repeated around the internet a lot, but how many people have actually measured it for themselves and how many just accept what they hear without questioning it?

 

I have not played it like I said, so I cannot say either way with any certainty, but I do think it is possible that, like Burnout, the "400 sq m" might actually be more like "400 miles of road".

 

[lefantome]

Los santos is said to have a large suburban sprawl like the real la, so i think that the core city will be smaller than

Iberty city but, including the burbs will be larger.

 

The winewood hills are complex and they host lots of villes, i expect suburbs in the south based on orange county too and maybe some behind vinewood hills

[Dominik1411]

Good good, but why do u still compare it with SA, GTA IV and RDR? R* already said that it will be 3 times bigger than RDR and 5 times with water space and that stuff. So put in that just cause 2 map 3 maps of RDR and we´ll see^^

[JeteaFive]

Good thread, OP.

[lxr]

 

Do all of those games give in-game distance stats like Rockstar's do?  If you can measure a straight-line distance from one place on the map to another place on the map, and you can put your starting and ending points on a picture of the map, then you can calculate the scale of the map.  If this was done for all those maps then a (more) accurate comparison could be made.

 

Measurements alone can only be as accurate as the stats. For example, a game like GTAIV only gives distances in hundreds of a mile precision. That means any point-to-point measurement in-game has a 32-meter margin of error.  You need to make several measurements of different distances, compare the scales you end up with from those, and make a leap of logic what the real, nice-round-number resolution of the map image is, which is probably something logical and not totally random, for example the GTAIV and RDR map images are 1 meter per pixel, because that makes sense. Why would they make it something randomly close to that instead of exactly that, especially when Rockstar has been using meters as their in-game coordinate units since GTA3.

I'd still love to see a more accurate estimate of the map size, and I think it could be done. See here.

 

With regards to the unit of measurement, of course you can only measure the size in meters (or miles), not in pixels. A map with very detailed textures would have a lot of pixels, but that wouldn't make it any bigger. Obviously, "one meter" can mean many things, but I guess we're assuming a ~6 ft protagonist, not a dwarf stumbling through a miniature world, for example. (If in the last scene of GTA V, the camera zooms out and we see that the whole game has taken place inside a matchbox, then GTA V has a smaller map than just about any other game.)

 

Also, GTA IV has an arbitrarily high resolution, no just so-and-so-many units per mile. I have rendered the two GTA IV maps linked here using in-game data, and the full size versions are 1 meter per pixel, 6000 x 6000 (left) and 5400 x 3600 (right). In the image in your sig, San Andreas is also 6000 x 6000 meters. I still haven't found reliable numbers regarding RDR (even though they way it looks in your sig seems about right).

Edited January 5, 2013 by lxr

[Raavi]

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is very inaccurate just try it out yourself.. Take a car in SA and IV then circle the entire map, now do the same with JC2. You'll soon find out that JC2 is absolutely enormous there really is no comparison with SA and IV not even the two combined. If GTA V will be 1/3 of the JC2 map that would already be awesome.

[lxr]

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is very inaccurate just try it out yourself.. Take a car in SA and IV then circle the entire map, now do the same with JC2. You'll soon find out that JC2 is absolutely enormous there really is no comparison with SA and IV not even the two combined. If GTA V will be 1/3 of the JC2 map that would already be awesome.

Click ... click ... click. Would make JC2 32 by 32 kilometers, almost 30 times larger than GTA SA or GTA IV.

 

With regards to GTA V, we have great maps, but they don't show the full game, and they don't have a specific scale. One can argue that Los Santos (just the city) is neither much smaller nor much bigger than Liberty City in GTA IV (see here). My personal estimate is that we've seen about half of the map (maybe even a bit more), which would make GTA IV, very roughly, 12 by 12 kilometers. JC2 would still be about 7 times larger (even assuming 16 by 16 kilometers, it would be 4 times larger). But of course, as others have mentioned before, the "felt map size" doesn't just depend on the actual dimensions, but also, and maybe even more so, on the level of detail.

 

 

I want a simple answer, is there a chance GTA V's map will be smaller than 20 sq miles? I know you said before you predict it will be 28 sq miles which is good enough imo, now is there anyway using your calculations that V's map will be less than 20 sq miles, or is it guarentted that it will be at least 20 sq miles if not more? Thanks. 

So, while nothing is guaranteed... if you had to bet money, you should definitely bet on > 20 square miles.

 

 

Summary: No, the OP does not debunk anything with regards to relative map sizes. The only way to do that would be to make in-game measurements in JC2 to show that the map is actually smaller than 20 by 20 miles. The size of GTA SA (3.7 by 3.7 miles or 6 by 6 kilometers) is a known fact.

 

Where did the error happen? In the step "Let's see how big this island really is... Uhhh. Yeah. It's not big." ("big" is very relative, but if the "5.95 km" waypoint is correct, then you're looking at a territory just as big as SA), followed by "Here's the Gant Bridge which appears it could span far beyond that distance." (who knows how large it appears from what angle/perspective, and if the actual scales of the superimposed screenshots are remotely the same). If two steps each introduce a 40% error in distances, you'll end up with an estimated area for SA that is 4 times too large.

 

On the other hand, if the waypoints in JC2 are consistently wrong by a factor of 2 or 3 (which is what the OP is suggesting), then that should be easy to demonstrate.

Edited January 5, 2013 by lxr