Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

[Tyler]

Quiet being a criticism of the objectification of women is pretty on spot I guess. Definitely makes sense, her outfit was kind of out there even for Kojima (I still think this despite my argument a bit higher on the page). Interesting to see how else she'll play into the story. I know she was being tortured in the Director's Cut trailer.

 

Speaking of torture, I wonder how hard this game's cutscenes are going to be to watch. The trailer really gives off the vibe that this is going to be a dark change of character -- the transformation of our hero from a man who's willing to do anything to save his comrades, to a villain willing to do anything to avenge his friends.

[AreXi]

Quiet being a criticism of the objectification of women is pretty on spot I guess. Definitely makes sense, her outfit was kind of out there even for Kojima (I still think this despite my argument a bit higher on the page). Interesting to see how else she'll play into the story. I know she was being tortured in the Director's Cut trailer.

Kojima says there will be child soldiers in the game: Wow, good for him for exploring taboos.

Kojima reveals Quiet: sexist asshole.

 

Great stuff, guys. Considering Quiet will most likely be able to change the color of her skin to fit into any surface she's against (like Octocamo), I don't see why she should be all covered up. Doesn't that kind of nullify an ability like that?

[Twang.]

 

Quiet being a criticism of the objectification of women is pretty on spot I guess. Definitely makes sense, her outfit was kind of out there even for Kojima (I still think this despite my argument a bit higher on the page). Interesting to see how else she'll play into the story. I know she was being tortured in the Director's Cut trailer.

Kojima says there will be child soldiers in the game: Wow, good for him for exploring taboos.

Kojima reveals Quiet: sexist asshole.

More evidence that the people who make these complaints don't actually play games.

[W3BB13]

This might be the only game that I'll actually be more excited for than GTA5. I've always been a huge fan of the MGS series, and this game looks like it could top all of the others in the past. Depending on where they go with the storyline it sounds like the game will be very interesting. The new stealth features and additions to the FOX Engine all look great. I've been impressed and pretty much dying for more information on the game ever since I saw the original Phantom Pain trailer.

 

After GTA5, MGS5 will likely be the last game I ever purchase. My gaming days are mostly behind me at this point.

 

Also, I LMAO'd at the Halo dev who bitched about Quiet. I can't believe he even dared to open his mouth in the first place. Cortana is just as bad or worse than Quiet. Maybe he should worry more about the games he's working on than the product of others.

 

Cortana from Halo:

Edited September 8, 2013 by W3BB13

[NYC PATROL]

Going to be 6 years since MGS4 by the time this game releases jeeeez.

[Otter]

This whole thing about Quiet is... disquieting. Sorry, couldn't help it.

 

I don't understand a lot of Kojima's communication these days. I'm a fan of secretive, especially when it pays off, but the poor choice of words (like 'erotic') are not helping the cause here at all.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with sexy characters - and, especially in a game like this, they're par for the course. But this feels like a step beyond, and I'm really wondering what the backstory is going to be here if the team's claiming there's going to be some sort of saving grace. Kojima does like to fetishize his snipers, doesn't he?

 

The "criticism of gaming stereotypes" excuse is goofy and - without knowing anything else but the character design - skimpier than this chick's leather camo thong.

 

Arexi - the two points you raise are not mutually exclusive.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Otter

[Creed Bratton]

I don't care about this "controversy" at all. Never did. I just want to know if the guy will finally hire some f*ckin' professional writers to help him out with this crap. Even though I'm a big fan of the series, the writing's always been sh*t. It didn't bother me in the past because most games were terribly written, and MGS had so many other things going for it. But now it's kind of unacceptable.

Edited September 9, 2013 by GTAvanja

[Twang.]

I don't think there's anything wrong with sexy characters - and, especially in a game like this, they're par for the course. But this feels like a step beyond, and I'm really wondering what the backstory is going to be here if the team's claiming there's going to be some sort of saving grace. Kojima does like to fetishize his snipers, doesn't he?

I don't see how it's a step beyond, personally. Or at least, I can't see how anyone can know that. She's actually really toned down compared to some of the stuff you see these days, or really any time in the past 15 years. She's such a plain looking woman, too.

 

And you can't say she's sexualized until you know her personality. Eva dressed more 'modestly' in MGS3, but she was a lot more sexual than anything we've seen from Quiet thus far (or any MGS woman, at that). From what I've seen, she seems like a strong independent woman, and I have a hard time (heheh) imagining us seeing any naked antics from her. The people who call this sexist are, ironically, the ones who only pay attention to her body and pass judgment without bothering to know her.

[OchyGTA]

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with sexy characters - and, especially in a game like this, they're par for the course. But this feels like a step beyond, and I'm really wondering what the backstory is going to be here if the team's claiming there's going to be some sort of saving grace. Kojima does like to fetishize his snipers, doesn't he?

I don't see how it's a step beyond, personally. Or at least, I can't see how anyone can know that. She's actually really toned down compared to some of the stuff you see these days, or really any time in the past 15 years. She's such a plain looking woman, too.

 

And you can't say she's sexualized until you know her personality. Eva dressed more 'modestly' in MGS3, but she was a lot more sexual than anything we've seen from Quiet thus far (or any MGS woman, at that). From what I've seen, she seems like a strong independent woman, and I have a hard time (heheh) imagining us seeing any naked antics from her. The people who call this sexist are, ironically, the ones who only pay attention to her body and pass judgment without bothering to know her.

 

 

She's a strong independent woman who just happens to have to run around in barely any clothing?

I kinda get what you're saying but if her personality is not sexualised, then why is it necessary for her to be presented physically in such a way? Why can't she be a kick-ass sniper without her partial nudity getting in the way?

[Otter]

Yeah Nate, got to reinforce Ochy here. i could do a side by side comparison for you but I really don't think it's necessary, do you? She's a porn symbol. A pinup. there's no way to defend her by denying that. so that's why I'm interesting in hearing why she'll thematically vindicate her, uh, outfit somehow.

 

I have nothing against tits and ass; I just think it has a place, and it's insulting to me to suggest that she's somehow a symbol of feminine strength because oh - she can't talk? as if that's what defines a 'strong female' - her inability to speak her mind.

 

 

'Cept with her gun!

[AreXi]

She's a strong independent woman who just happens to have to run around in barely any clothing?

I kinda get what you're saying but if her personality is not sexualised, then why is it necessary for her to be presented physically in such a way? Why can't she be a kick-ass sniper without her partial nudity getting in the way?

 

I'll just leave this here.

 

http://i.imgur.com/6fzHdNT.jpg

Edited September 10, 2013 by AreXi

[Otter]

I figure the 'patterns' seen on her face were a combination of the self shading and LOD engines.

 

I much prefer this theory:

 

http://www.dorkly.com/article/53916/hideo-kojima-explains-the-controversial-new-metal-gear-solid-character

[AreXi]

I figure the 'patterns' seen on her face were a combination of the self shading and LOD engines.

 

 

I very much doubt that.

[Otter]

Oh. That's neat. I hope they don't force fancy technology into the past, all anachronistic like, but that's neat. Maybe she's some sort of psychedelia or a psycho-mantis apparition? If she's a 'ghost' meant to prey on soldiers' appetites, that could be an interesting route to take.

[AreXi]

Oh. That's neat. I hope they don't force fancy technology into the past, all anachronistic like, but that's neat. Maybe she's some sort of psychedelia or a psycho-mantis apparition? If she's a 'ghost' meant to prey on soldiers' appetites, that could be an interesting route to take.

I doubt they have to force any fancy tech in there, chances are that her ability really is to camouflage herself. Considering we've already seen all kinds of crazy sh*t in the games (a guy who can control wasps and a guy who can communicate with the dead, and after his death, the living for instance), it wouldn't be too surprising.

 

And even if there is no reasonable explanation other than what you linked, meh, I don't mind. Quiet has the face of a real-life person so that's kinda nice...

[Tyler]

I have nothing against tits and ass; I just think it has a place, and it's insulting to me to suggest that she's somehow a symbol of feminine strength because oh - she can't talk? as if that's what defines a 'strong female' - her inability to speak her mind.

 

 

'Cept with her gun!

 

Well it's more like a typical stereotype taken to its extreme. To the point of being so obvious that it's painful. Quiet isn't a symbol of feminist power, she's the result of a chauvinistic, male video game culture. At least that's what I took from it. Then again people tend to try and find meanings in places where there isn't one, so maybe you've got a point, haha.

[W3BB13]

Why do people care so much about what Quiet is wearing? It's not like we've never seen females in skimpy clothing in video games before.

 

f*ck, some people are just being ridiculous about it.

[Otter]

...some people are just being ridiculous about it.

 

Agreed. At least with Dragon's Crown I can kind of see where the criticism was coming from. And likewise, Tyler, if you want to point at something that should have been laughed at as an extreme, look no farther than that one! Or the gawdawful Bayonetta design. Shudder.

 

I can understand the sentiment, though, and that's why I like discussing it - but people are too quick these days to describe something as 'rape culture' or worse, without really qualifying it. I don't think Quiet's design is 'disgusting'. It's certainly exploitative, unrealistic, and immature... but we are talking about a sci-fi adventure videogame, after all.

[Creed Bratton]

Quiet isn't a symbol of feminist power, she's the result of a chauvinistic, male video game culture. At least that's what I took from it.

If that were true she'd be walking around with a sandwich instead of a sniper rifle.

 

I kid, of course. I agree with you. But Kojima isn't very good with symbolism. Because he doesn't know how to be subtle about ANYTHING, people are actually not noticing the obvious, because they're used to read too much into things until they find something unpleasant.

Edited September 10, 2013 by GTAvanja

[Twang.]

I have nothing against tits and ass; I just think it has a place, and it's insulting to me to suggest that she's somehow a symbol of feminine strength because oh - she can't talk? as if that's what defines a 'strong female' - her inability to speak her mind.

Her muteness has nothing to do with why I think she's strong and independent. Look at that smirk in that gif. That's the face of someone who knows they're no one's bitch. I know a thing or two about quiet people and they usually don't smile unless they have a reason to. She's not putting on a show to please your boner, she knows she's damn good at what she does and she's proud of it. That...that's actually kind of sexy now that I think about it.

 

What I'm saying is, I'm willing to bet she won't be bedding down with Big Boss, nor will she be a damsel in distress (check both of those for EVA). Not sexualized or weak, which are all-too-common characteristics among female characters. If you ignore that, and just look at the tits and ass, yeah I can see where you might cry foul, but that's where I see the hypocrisy in the video game feminism movement. You said it yourself, it just doesn't qualify.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Sakuya

[Adler]

I kid, of course. I agree with you. But Kojima isn't very good with symbolism. Because he doesn't know how to be subtle about ANYTHING, people are actually not noticing the obvious, because they're used to read too much into things until they find something unpleasant.

He doesn't need to be subtle about this. Quiet is a statement that you can be sexy but independent at the same time, neither of which have any bearing on each other. The internet's struggle to understand why Kojima designed the character this way is merely born out of cognitive dissonance. People just don't understand why a character that is shown to be independent is blatantly designed to be sexy, and then they question it, even when it shouldn't be questioned at all.

 

This is more of a problem with people than it is about Kojima. The controversy is in plain view, ever since the theme and the trailers were revealed. MGSV is probably more about controversy than about Race, even.

[tuareg]

So apparently we'll be getting a gameplay video or something later this month. Hopefully a release date as well. Can't wait.

[Typhus]

I figured that Quiet was mutilated by the Afghan mujaheddin (Tongue cut out) and her ridiculous appearance is a way of pissing off the uber-religious insurgency who are fighting the Soviets.

[Daz]

In reply to this whole Quiet malarky, in my view, I don't see her as sexual, or really sexualized, sure the outfit could have been a bit more supportive. But I wouldn't class her as being specifically a "hot bikini babe" as she looks much more like an average every day woman in her late 20s with no makeup and nothing (aside from the outfit) to suggest anything other than her being reserved.

 

The plot and the reasons for this could make sense of it. The way I see her is that she seems like she has been through some seriously bad situations either ingame (torture) or pre game, such as child abuse or slavery or rape etc. So I hope her character aspires from people who have recently been in awful situations and have some complex psychological reasons for acting in a certain way. Being it her own choice to dress that way, either out of habit from being in captivity or to take power from what once would have been humiliating.

 

That said, it still doesn't change the fact she isn't wearing much, and even for a prisoner or someone who could have just escaped a jail even if they were naked during captivity it does not explain why she would not have stolen a guards clothes (like meryl did) or have had more left of her original clothing.

 

Either way, it draws attention to the game, good or bad, it gives them publicity. I doubt (or at least hope) this is only one section of her storyline.

 

But in my eyes, a bikini on a non ugly woman alone shouldn't be classed as sexist or overly sexualized as it is far from it, even if it does seem a bit silly to reveal a character in that tone. It gives off the wrong impression.

[tuareg]

TGS and ground zeroes/MGSV video tomorrow.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/features/tokyo-game-show-2013-gamespot-live-stream-6414482/

[Adler]

TGS live now.

 

EDIT: Here's gameplay footage they showed at TGS. There's still another event tomorrow I think.

 

Edited September 21, 2013 by Adler

[Adler]

2nd gameplay demo at TGS 2013.

 

 

 

 

/legit bump

 

[Dillinger8]

Really considering getting a PS4 just for this game, that's what it's coming out on right?

[Creed Bratton]

It's on PS3, Xbox 360, PS4 and Xbox One. Although it may get a PC release later on.

Edited September 24, 2013 by GTAvanja

[Daz]

The gameplay looks pretty good, though I miss the days of MGS2/3 where the shooting was pinpoint accurate. Though the movement animations look flawless, I still hate the MGS4 era shooting mechanics, it being very inaccurate and the stance is very awkward, as well as the Peace Walker style CQC, I just wish these mechanics looked as realistic as the movement does.

 

Anyone have a video link of the above video with an English translation?