SSD Dilemma

[Ryan]

I currently own a Plextor PX-M2 128GB SATA III drive which I have running in my desktop for about a year now. I've been wanting to get another SSD for my laptop for a while now, and I ended up picking up a Samsung 830 128GB SATA III drive today for $75. The dilemma I face is which drive to put where.

 

The Samsung is obviously the higher end drive than the Plextor so I was going to swap them and put the Samsung in my desktop and the Plextor in my laptop. On the other hand though, since the Samsung would have better reliability, I was thinking I should put it in my laptop as I use my laptop for university for 8 months of the year, and my desktop for the other 4 months of the year.

 

Another issue I have with my desktop is that since I'm running off the X58 chipset still, I don't have native support for SATA III on my motherboard. SATA III is provided on my motherboard via a Marvell controller. Unfortunately, if I use the Marvell controller, I don't have TRIM support. So, would it be advisable to hook either of these SSD's up to one of my SATA III ports despite the lack of TRIM support, or should I just continue to have it hooked up to one of the SATA II ports that include TRIM support?

 

System specs

 

Laptop

 

Intel Core i3 350M

4GB of RAM

Dell motherboard

 

Desktop

 

Intel Core i7 920

12GB of RAM

Asus P6X58D-E

[Wolf68k]

Since it seems like your laptop is what you use the most, plus you'll be using it for you school work, then you'll want to use the best, more reliable drive there.

 

As for the SATA III and the lack of TRIM, don't worry about the SATA III. TRIM for a SSD is far more important than then minor read/write times you might see on an SSD between a SATA II and III.

Without TRIM the SSD can end up having issues the more it's used which can lead to premature failure.

 

Another reason not to bother swapping the drives, a minor but still something to think about, reinstalling the OS and programs and what not.

[yoječ]

As for the second question, I'd hook it up to Intel's SATA2 controller. Marvell controllers suck... at least on my mobo they do. I had an SSD some time ago and I did short benchmarks (using CrystalDiskMark) betwen Marvell S3 and Intel S2, and Marvell turned out to be barely faster, and in some regards even slower...

[Stinky12]

Trim support has nothing to do with the controller. It's has to do with the OS. Windows 7 enables trim by default.

If your talking about RAID in a SSD, then maybe you'll need to connect that to the Intel controller as the new RST drivers

allows SSD RAID with TRIM.

[Ryan]

Trim support has nothing to do with the controller. It's has to do with the OS. Windows 7 enables trim by default.

If your talking about RAID in a SSD, then maybe you'll need to connect that to the Intel controller as the new RST drivers

allows SSD RAID with TRIM.

From what I've read, the Marvel SATA III controller on my motherboard does not support TRIM. That's why I've had it hooked up to the Intel SATA II port the whole time.

[Stinky12]

After hearing Marvell controllers don't support trim, I did a bit of digging and found there are conflicting information as to whether Marvell supports trim or not.

Some say it does by installing the latest drivers or a firmware update, while others say it doesn't. Now is there concrete data to say which side is right?

Each of them seem to some how become a SSD expert overnight and based on their personal test, indicates this type of controller (Marvell) will or will not support trim.

I have a 330 SSD and I want to know if TRIM is working. I found out, none of them "experts" have any idea what their talking about. It's more of using their own personal info as fact.

Here's what I found from these so call "experts"

 

TRIM Support

In order for TRIM to work, all 3 components must support TRIM and they are:

1. Operating System

2. SATA Controller?

3. SSD itself

Windows 7 and 8 enables TRIM by default

SATA Controller is do lots of research on it, and confused the hell out of yourself. In the end you'll still have no idea if it does or does not support trim.

SSD is by looking at the specs on the product page or its technical pdf

 

Trim working? Yes or No

From what I read, there are two ways of tell if the SSD is receiving trim commands and both of them are incorrect.

1. Use CrystalDiskInfo. Under SSD if "TRIM" is highlighted then it's working. If greyed out, then it's not working.

I check my SSD under CrystalDiskInfo and TRIM is highlighted so I assumed it is working.

Then I purposely disable trim TRIM from Windows, restart, and checked again. By disabling TRIM in Windows, then I assume

TRIM under my SSD in CrystalDiskInfo should be greyed out as the SSD won't be receiving TRIM commands. Turns out, it's still highlighted.

 

2. Use Intel SSD Tool Box. It doesn't matter if you own a Intel SSD or not. This toolbox should tell if you're SSD is working with TRIM.

In the Intel SSD tool box, click on SSD and hit drive details. Under "Word" column, scroll down to number 169 and it should say "Data Set Management Support"

A bit under that, in description it'll say "Bit 0 - Data Set Management Supported" along with a Hex Value. If the Value is 1 then trim is working, If it's a 0, then it's not working.

Well it's the same thing with both OS trim enabled and disabled, for my SSD the hex value is always a 1.

 

Both of these options will not tell whether your SSD is working with TRIM or not, it just tells if your SSD has TRIM support.

It's like checking your CPU under CPU-Z, if a feature isn't highlighted, it doesn't mean it's disabled or not working. It means your CPU doesn't have that feature.

 

Personal test on TRIM

Using my Intel 330 SSD, I hooked it up to a Asus U3S6 which has 2x SATA III ports running on a Marvell 9123 controller, running Windows 8 Pro 64bit.

In that I have my Intel SSD Toolbox running and there is a Optimize SSD function where it says it optimizes the SSD using TRIM command.

If I can run that utility, then based on what I think, then manual TRIM is working for me. But to confirm if it's working or not. I installed Anvil's Storage Utilities RC5 as

that program has a feature where you can force TRIM on a SSD.

 

1st test:

Install latest Marvell 9123 drivers

Intel Optimized SSD- Not working, Toolbox cannot communicated with SSD

Anvil's- Drive not responding to TRIM command

 

2nd test:

Update Marvell controller firmware

Intel Optimized SSD- Not working

Anvil's- Not working

 

3rd test:

Remove Marvell drivers and Use Microsoft built drivers.

Intel Optimized SSD- Working

Anvil's- not working

 

4th test:

Hook SSD directly to my board, on SATA II that runs on Asus board using Intel X48 chipset with SATA being controlled by Intel ICH9R

Install latest chipset and Rapid Storage Technology driver

Intel Optimized SSD-Working

Anvil's- Still not working

Maybe my Intel controller is too old, so Anvil's will not pass TRIM to my SSD?

 

Conclusion

Marvell controller with MS default drivers work with TRIM

Marvell controller with its own driver doesn't work with TRIM

By "experts" it's forums users not the articles for tech sites like Anandtech, Tom's, Xbitlabs, etc. Because I don't remember reading any of them

saying SATA controllers also need to support TRIM for it to work.

This is based on personal test and cannot be used as fact or applied to other setups.

If you want to applied this to your setup or others, then it's up to you.

Both software give conflicting results in both test 3 and 4, but it's up to the user to decide which program they trust.

For me personally, I hooked up my SSD to the Marvell, use Microsoft own drivers and have trim. Maybe not automatic, but at least

I can manually trim my SSD when I want to with the Intel SSD Toolbox.

And with SATA III, it's faster.

 

SATA III on Marvell with Marvell Drivers

 

SATA III on Marvell with Microsoft Drivers

 

SATA II on Intel ICH9R with Intel Drivers

 

 

Edited November 26, 2012 by Stinky12

[Ryan]

Woah, thanks for the comprehensive analysis there Stinky.

 

So if I understand correctly, I should be able to hook one of SSD's up to the SATA III port on my motherboard and have it work correctly with TRIM support even though it is running off a Marvell controller and not the X58 chipset? The only condition being that I need to use Mircosoft's firmware for the Marvell controller?

[Stinky12]

Not firmware, just drivers

Run Microsoft own drivers on the Marvell SATA controller

 

And Looks like Windows 8 has it's own built in trim for SSD

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums...f5-437d5e212c9c

http://www.ghacks.net/2012/08/19/why-weekl...nder-windows-8/

 

Edited November 26, 2012 by Stinky12

[Ryan]

Okay. Could you provide me with a link to where I could find the Mircosoft driver for a Marvell 9128 controller?

[Stinky12]

There is no link, just uninstall the Marvell drivers, and restart.

After that go into Device Manager and under IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers

Look for Standard SATA ACHI Controller. If it's there then your Marvell is running on Microsoft's driver.