The Gardener Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 In GTA 4 we had the tugboat which was kinda big. In SA we had AT-400 which was kinda big. These things are nice, but do you think a PS3 or XBOX could process something as big as a cargo ship or a jumbo jet being drivable ingame? Would we be able to drive one of these bad boys: Or maybe role-play or cause chaos in one of these: Any computer wiz on here know if the average consoles could actual process the concept of these huge machines being maneuverable in a game like Grand Theft Auto? Would you guys even want these things in GTA 5. I'm sure they'd use an extremem amount of processing and storage. Your opinions or suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreyCrll Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 It could technically, but I'd rather save the disk space for something cooler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruscris2 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 It would be no problem for a console, if the model is somewhat low-poly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racecarlock Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Well, just cause 2 had full sized airliners. And some small cargo ships. I should know, I'm playing it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaroldBreevy Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I think it would be awesome, but then you have those assholes who will say "well you really shouldn't be able to fly passenger planes in the video game" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The answer is yes we do. But it's more complicated than "whether the consoles that can handle it exist or not". Making video games requires a lot of time for tweaking of programming. There are many games out there that do an awesome job of taking advantage of a consoles technical advantages in graphics and object spawning, while there are others that just scream "FAIL". It's an issue of labor, money, and time spending in comparison to the thanks that some of these ungrateful f*cks will give them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBen Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 GTA San Andreas has full-size airliners that you could fly so I don't see why GTA V couldn't handle it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriaan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 People often make the mistake thinking that a large object in 3D space takes up more size or rendering cost. If you go and view wireframe versions of 3d models, you'll understand that it's the details in the shape that make something higher resolution (more polygons). Think of the jumbo jet in GTAIV, which is around 22k polygons. Cars in Midnight Club: Los Angeles can be as high as 100k, because they have more details in its shape etc. (admittedly, interior art, as well). So a ship, if you think about its shape, and think of the sum of its parts in 3d space, it could actually be equal or less than a car in terms of resolution and the space it takes up in memory. Certainly, if the ship has an interior, it's going to have a lot more detail in the 3d model. However, the interior isn't really loaded into memory until you move inside it, after which, the world around you is unloaded from memory - freeing up available space to display the interior like any other interior within say a building. So on a technical level it is no problemo at all I would feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gardener Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 GTA San Andreas has full-size airliners that you could fly so I don't see why GTA V couldn't handle it... "In SA we had AT-400 which was kinda big." There was full sized planes in San Andreas, but none were actually nearly as big as normal commercial airline planes or jumbo jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKON8ERISBACK Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 People often make the mistake thinking that a large object in 3D space takes up more size or rendering cost. If you go and view wireframe versions of 3d models, you'll understand that it's the details in the shape that make something higher resolution (more polygons). Think of the jumbo jet in GTAIV, which is around 22k polygons. Cars in Midnight Club: Los Angeles can be as high as 100k, because they have more details in its shape etc. (admittedly, interior art, as well). So a ship, if you think about its shape, and think of the sum of its parts in 3d space, it could actually be equal or less than a car in terms of resolution and the space it takes up in memory. Certainly, if the ship has an interior, it's going to have a lot more detail in the 3d model. However, the interior isn't really loaded into memory until you move inside it, after which, the world around you is unloaded from memory - freeing up available space to display the interior like any other interior within say a building. So on a technical level it is no problemo at all I would feel. Yeah. It's just an issue of programmer skill and the console itself. Some consoles have proprietary circuit designs that make it difficult to write code that commands the RAM and graphics adapter to do stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBen Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 GTA San Andreas has full-size airliners that you could fly so I don't see why GTA V couldn't handle it... "In SA we had AT-400 which was kinda big." There was full sized planes in San Andreas, but none were actually nearly as big as normal commercial airline planes or jumbo jets. Honestly the AT-400 was plenty big enough for me (that's what she said) No need for a full on 757 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gardener Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'm honestly surprised by the amount of people who say consoles could handle this. Honestly, I don't have a clue, I'm a casual gamer. But in multiplayer in GTA4, whenever theres more than 3 or 4 annihilators on my screen close where I am, I get a serious lag. And all that is on my PS3 is GTA 4, Fifa 12 and RDR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriaan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) What some trolls with modded consoles did before in GTAIV was that they spawned a whole bunch of the GTAIV Tug Boats - resulting in games crashing for people. I assume the reasoning is because the console runs out of memory as a result of too many instantations of the vehicle, or the CPU just can't handle all the multiple physics calculation at once. @SomeManForGTA With Annihilators, you also have to take into account that it's doing physics calculation, multiplayer synchronization (and interpolation) - whereas a static object like a ship, with its interior culled (hidden) don't really have all that. As observers of the real world we'd want to think that the larger the object the more power it needs to render on screen in a virtual environment, but that's not always the case if you read what I said above. You can find pretty detailed game-ready models of ships that comes in around 20-30k polygons on Turbosquid. Games like Forza, Midnight Club LA etc. have its cars at 100k. Quickest results I found in Google, but this will give you an idea of how 3D models look in wireframe mode: A boat A car So, through those examples, it's not always the physical size that determine the resolution of an object - but rather its shape/curvature etc. Things like cars/helicopters/planes need a good level of resolution in GTAIV/GTAV because of the damaged system, in that it dynamically deforms the 3D mesh to perform damage. You need enough of those polygons, as seen in the above images, to have enough surface area to "deform" them to represent damage. With a large ship, you really don't - as deformation isn't calculated on it. Edited September 13, 2012 by Adriaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gardener Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Yeah, I kind of understand what you're saying. And as much as I'd love something like a full sized jumbo jet to be flyable for some reason I doubt it's going to happen. Come think of it, driving a tugboat was incredibly boring, and a full sized cargo ship would be even worse. I'd say a full sized cargo ship that atleast moves would be better. Think of the platypus or those ships off the coast of San Fierro. Certain missions or scenarios would be awesome if those ships actually moved moved. Instead of just floating there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter De Blanc Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Since everybody's saying it's possible, I want to know why the tugboat destroys the framerate if you bring it on land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriaan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Since everybody's saying it's possible, I want to know why the tugboat destroys the framerate if you bring it on land? dat physics calculation on da CPU! it's designed/optimized as a buoyant object in the water of GTAIV. So when it hits land the buoyancy script tries to make multiple calculations that it wasn't supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerKracker Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 A passenger airliner might be cool, but a full-size ship would just be a load for the hardware, and impractical due to being clumsy to control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrowsKai Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I don't see the point of drivable cargo-ships. It would be a nice little novelty but they would be to slow to be practical and the fun of it would probably wear off after a while. It would be cool to have one or two moving around the water-ways though. Being in littoral areas would mean they would going slow anyway so having them on a pre-set course would still seem realistic. Sort of like how the Jumbos work in IV where they land, taxi around, take off, fly around the map and land again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gardener Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I don't see the point of drivable cargo-ships. It would be a nice little novelty but they would be to slow to be practical and the fun of it would probably wear off after a while. It would be cool to have one or two moving around the water-ways though. Being in littoral areas would mean they would going slow anyway so having them on a pre-set course would still seem realistic. Sort of like how the Jumbos work in IV where they land, taxi around, take off, fly around the map and land again. You do know in GTA 4 the planes never land or take off? There is actually 2 ground at the airport which just circle the runway endlessly and 2 that circle Liberty cCity endlessly. None of them ever land or take off. I think this is how cargo ships should work in GTA 5. They just circle the map, maybe go into a harbor or a river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriaan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 LOL, poor passengers on that plane. The first time I was at JFK (it's huge), and it seemed like it took forever to taxi around, I thought of that GTAIV plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCKSTAR MANIC Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Imagine an AC130 a drivable plane OMG !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Yeah. It's just an issue of programmer skill and the console itself. Some consoles have proprietary circuit designs that make it difficult to write code that commands the RAM and graphics adapter to do stuff like that. Only if you are a bad programmer who never learned anything but a couple of frameworks. A good programmer knows how to work with whatever hardware he happens to have at his disposal. There are no technical problems with making large aircraft and ships player controllable. There are some technical challenges, but dealing with these is what real programming is all about. In truth, all of the real issues are in terms of gameplay design and whether it's worth the time to write the code for these things. Hopefully, the aircraft code is going to be properly written, making a large airplane a special case. But the code for ships in GTA has never been that great. Unless they update that as well, large ships would take special coding. It's all just a matter of time, but time is money in game dev, so that's basically what it all comes down to. Prior to filing a bug against any of my code, please consider this response to common concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrowsKai Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I don't see the point of drivable cargo-ships. It would be a nice little novelty but they would be to slow to be practical and the fun of it would probably wear off after a while. It would be cool to have one or two moving around the water-ways though. Being in littoral areas would mean they would going slow anyway so having them on a pre-set course would still seem realistic. Sort of like how the Jumbos work in IV where they land, taxi around, take off, fly around the map and land again. You do know in GTA 4 the planes never land or take off? There is actually 2 ground at the airport which just circle the runway endlessly and 2 that circle Liberty cCity endlessly. None of them ever land or take off. I think this is how cargo ships should work in GTA 5. They just circle the map, maybe go into a harbor or a river. Seriously? I never noticed that, tbh I only ever really went in the airport to get an Airtug for rampaging about anyway so never spend long there lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsHorosho Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I don't see the point of drivable cargo-ships. It would be a nice little novelty but they would be to slow to be practical and the fun of it would probably wear off after a while. It would be cool to have one or two moving around the water-ways though. Being in littoral areas would mean they would going slow anyway so having them on a pre-set course would still seem realistic. Sort of like how the Jumbos work in IV where they land, taxi around, take off, fly around the map and land again. the point is to smash and blow other smaller boats to pieces...the size is an advantage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ispintechno Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't imagine it would be a problem. While under control of the massive vehicle the camera would just zoom out. I'm sure they could let you pilot the Death Star if they wanted too. Edited September 14, 2012 by Ispintechno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbojohn Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I'm pretty sure any console can render these vehicles, only because they are big doesn't make them hardware intensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Daniels Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Would we be able to drive one of these bad boys: Lol, go play Ship Simulator and tell me if you still want them...i played that game for 3 minutes, before rage quitting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTALegacy Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 As others have already stated... A console has enough power to render the exterior (and interior) models, but nowhere near enough to simulate the complex systems of a 747, for example. However, that's the point. All that matters in arcade games like GTA is the vehicle shape and size vs. how it handles, performs. So, we could easily have a 747 in GTA V, but it will probably fly with very basic handling (pitch, roll, yaw) as most the vehicles in these kind of games are simplified so anybody with a controller can hop in and use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamunda Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I would love to be able to enter inside of a plane, terrorize the passengers and pilots and hijack the plane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriaan Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I would love to be able to enter inside of a plane, terrorize the passengers and pilots and hijack the plane Hhmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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