Emotion, Grit, and Brutality..

[Elric101]

 

Sorry, but even if the gore is %100 realistic, I'll still be laughing as I drive down the side walk. Trying to make me feel guilty about killing digital pedestrians is like trying to make me feel bad about shooting the bugs in galaga, or eating the ghosts in pac man, or hitting the bricks in super breakout. I'm not going to feel sorry. These are not all unique individuals with their own backstories and personalities we're talking about here. They're essentially robot clones, hell sometimes I even see twins in IV. I play these games specifically because I can cause so much guilt free violence, and I don't feel like attending the funeral or whatever of every person I run down. Because it's a game. I feel about as guilty for killing peds in GTA as I do for squashing goombas in mario.

R*. is the type of company that will force you to change your perception on that or make you eat your words, and you know it. If its any company that can do what they say and do it well its R*. If theyre mission is to make the violence potent enough to make you feel what exactly your doing to random innocent people and dick heads theyll do it with flying colors and you know it.. This is where Im getting at when I say R*'s next Controversial move..this seems like a new and ultimatley innovative step in video gaming history.

 

If you can manipulate the censory by staying within the peramiters of Mature and not Adult but still make the Mature feel like ..sh*t this sh*t should be AO sometimes R* will be enblazoned as a legendary publisher by innovating and inventing new ways of seeing and playing a video game. No full frontal nudity, or on screen sex, or extreme gore, dead children (which is a common topic u sick f*cks) none of that. Its GTA, the next step is getting the players emotionally immersed.

 

PATENT (lol)

Imagine; Youve just layed waist to 5 innocent victims, two officers, and wrecked some store fronts over in say Market, Moltolvs, RPG, guns you name it.. The police pursuit is evaded but the damage has been done. We revisit the body sketches on the street from III era except this time, its extremley real. You escape to one of your safe houses over in Santos National Park (f*ck u elric lol) and change clothes and set off. You hear on the news your actions the night prior. As you begin to enter the city you notice near the area of your attacks there is police tape lining store fronts, and shards of broken glass, evidence plot points and body bags with blood laying on the ground as flowers, pictures of lost loved ones, and helicopters frequent the area in search of you. This last a full 24 in game hours after your crimes. And then guess what you do it all again except bigger!!

 

This is the GTA that V should be. Yes its matured ,but it must mature further and in the right way whilst keeping the dark humor and comical relief at points.

 

 

V needs to be the game to make you say.....woah....damn...wow...that...that was so f*cking real and sad and awesome and crazy and..holy sh*t they do that now...all the wY to the point where you say....you cant top this type of sh*t...NEVER. And your numb to how authentic it is.

 

Thats what V has to be, and thats why its taking so long. This is gonna be the big one guys mark my word...

(f*ck u elric lol)

 

Is that directed at me?

[Cyfa]

So wait..You're basically just saying that you love the fact that they were more human-like rather than digital faces right? I've read through all of your posts and I don't even know what side you're on anymore.

[saintsrow]

Great discussion. The OP's concept of more realistic and empathatic AI would certainly be a step toward making people think more about the nature of violent impulses and their feelings when contemplating such acts. Someone could and probably is writing a dissertation about the effects of violent video games as the avatars and animations become more realistic.

 

For fun, most gamers have probably already seen this:

 

 

I really think that the amount of empathy and the viewers' sense of internalized violence is a strong function of the presentation. Some movies accomplish this very well by dwelling on the consequences of the violent act, while most action films completely ignore it.

 

Typcial Rockstar cynical humor would be that while you are killing someone on the sidewalk, an eyewitness cries out "Call 911!" and everybody gets out their phone, out to capture video of the person dying, and there a comments like "Cool!" and "This is gonna get me some hits on Youtube!" and " I'm selling this to Weasel News!" rather than call 911.

 

Ironically and tragically, actual death scenes filmed with cell phone cameras are shown on YouTube - it always amazes me that YouTube has no problems showing death but has censorship policies in place for much more trivial things.

[Hvitdverg]

i'm really tired. good op

[saintsrow]

 

The pedestrians had a kind of innocence, that made killing them less enjoyable. Before IV, peds had either been assholes or idiots. Killing either is always going to be fun. The one thing I hope for in V is for peds to once again be assholes and idiots.

^THIS

 

i remember playin old GTA and the dude would say youra dick! ...flamethrower all day

It's utterly ironic that NPCs in Liberty City would not be assholes and dicks, since in real life New York, I assume that is the majority of the population.

 

Some people here have described some guidelines they use in determining which NPCs to kill. One rule I use sometimes (when I am not mowing down entire sidewalks full of peds at full speed in a garbage truck), is that when I am walking on the sidewalk and I bump into (or just walk near) a ped, who then insults me, that's a good reason for a point-blank execution. It's also an excellent way to get one star and begin an episode of total mayhem. Just one more aspect of GTA's excellent replay value.

 

 

Other players might just walk to the driver deprived of emotion, pop his/her head and take the car.

As many have said in this topic, wasting digital NPCs typically does not trigger any emotional or empathic response -- we like the guiltless violence. But one thing that is interesting to contemplate, is the idea that there apparently people in real life who feel nothing (i.e., no anticipated guilt or remorse) when committing an actual shootdown of unarmed people or planning to overpower or hurt someone to accomplish a selfish goal. Since we can do this in GTA, we get to imagine what such psychopathic behavior might be like.

[Meezarawcks]

I don't think of reality at all when I play GTA because at the end of the day its a VIDEOGAME. I can turn it off and not have to deal with the consequences of my actions within it. The game could get as real as it wants but we as gamers should be able to make the realization of reality.

[CoyT92]

I'm torn on the subject. On one hand, yes they are disposable collections of binary code with no real emotions. Getting emotionally involved with a video game can seem silly, but...we feel for movie characters. They're kind of the same. Just characters. Sure they're played by actors, but we also have voice actors in games. The characters themselves are fiction, made up by writers and programmers (in the case of games). Yet becoming connected with them is never really questioned.

 

I dunno...it's a tricky subject, especially with the advances in graphics and physics and stories in games.

 

But nothing will ever stop me from going crazy with a rocket launcher or going full speed down a sidewalk with a tank in GTA. So there's my two cents.

 

 

[neo92boi]

To clearify ;

No, idt, if you are THE Ed Elric then yes.

 

my side or point is that emotion and grit and brutality is the next innovation that GTA should muster with V.

 

It is indeed a touchy subject but thats why I made this topic, and thats what R* does.

They touch you with controversial moves and innovative technology.

 

||| - Open world never done before.

VC - Open world that is new to the protag, and player, and it must be conquered.

SA - Open world that has a dark past to it, and returning has unknown and exihlerating effects. The world is now grand in size and you feel fully enveloped in the reality of

San Andreas, later on it become a revenge story set to free your brother, save your family and turf, abd stop tenpenny and his plots by any means.

LCS - Same as SA except the frame has an outline set for you and you learn your past , present and future

VCS - One of the truly emotional GTA's. Failure, stuggle, love and prominence, all depicted in one story

IV - a Narrative with same theme as VC except the emotion of revenge is more prominent, and adventure in a new world being paramount.

 

 

All these games had a frame set and emotion drove it.

 

V might make it so that the emotion and whackyness is so prominent that emotion itself will be its frame, abd you are the driver. You will truly feel in Albert's or Adrian's body and everything they do and have done to theme will drive you from your own emotions.

 

If you get shot, it should be that reaction should be so strong it draws a furious frown apon your face, something along the lines of "Who the f*ck dared to shoot at me!!"

 

Kind of felt it in TLAD when Johnny would go into a rage whilst shooting but it must be expanded.

 

Once again just a small aspect of gameplay.

 

 

[saintsrow]

 

I'm torn on the subject. On one hand, yes they are disposable collections of binary code with no real emotions. Getting emotionally involved with a video game can seem silly, but...we feel for movie characters. They're kind of the same. Just characters. Sure they're played by actors, but we also have voice actors in games. The characters themselves are fiction, made up by writers and programmers (in the case of games). Yet becoming connected with them is never really questioned.

 

I dunno...it's a tricky subject, especially with the advances in graphics and physics and stories in games.

 

But nothing will ever stop me from going crazy with a rocket launcher or going full speed down a sidewalk with a tank in GTA. So there's my two cents.

Exactly. Certain movies, with live actors, good story, good acting and good direction, do indeed create an emotional connection, empathy, concern and particularly identification with some of the characters, such that we feel strong emotions with or for the characters. The same is true of good prose writing or radio acting.

 

Never in a video game have I had the slightest emotional connection to the characters or the story. The cutscenes and story are mere informational narratives, and I regard them from the point of view of being a critic of the medium, not an emotional audience. And for the most part, the only video games I play are Rockstar's. Bottom line is that I think they are trying to be too cinematic and it's mostly not working.

 

Sorry to say that, but it's my experience. Rockstar's video games are a universe apart from engaging, emotional movies, for me. Actually, if they ever do discover the secret to emotionally manipulating me into feeling for the characters, I think I will consider that a drag on the quality of the game, not an asset.

 

So, I experience no feeling or empathy while mowing down / blowing up NPCs including the animals in RDR. But I think the topic is a worthy one to discuss - what if a super-talented game company could actually create that kind of feeling in a video game?

 

Last thing -- I will note that some games do successfully have an "atmosphere" for example, of sadness, dread, hopelessness, claustrophobia, emptiness (sometimes because the game is not rich enough) etc. That is good game design, and we can decide if we like it or not - actually I mostly don't - it makes me uncomfortable, and video games are supposed to be wild, free, fun. But atmosphere is still completely removed from NPC or protag character empathy.

[Miss Darko]

^

Now, see, I don't get this at all. Video games have a great potential to be the most engaging storytelling medium of all, because you are the character. Red Dead Redemption in particular was extremely engaging and yes, quite sad for me, and I think that was one of the best aspects of it, that it made me feel something. And I also think Rockstar is particularly good at getting that reaction from me. Your opinion and mine, it seems, are worlds apart.

 

And even if Rockstar's games don't do it for you, I feel there's a hell of a lot of games that have great emotional engagement. Games that made people feel something, even cry. They're an artistic medium, not just entertainment. But like movies, they can go both ways and that's fine, it's like the difference between Transformers and Eraserhead. GTA has a lot of both, actually. GTA IV's story was entertaining as well as engaging, and the gameplay was especially entertaining. After all, if something isn't entertaining then it's going to have a hell of a job being moving. And I get different things from it each day. For instance, while playing GTA IV at first primarily for the story, I got a feel for what Niko as a character was like and thus refrained from killing innocent people in as well as out of missions. But every now and again I'd throw all that out and go on a merciless rampage, purely for fun. But I would not save afterwards, and later would start from my last save to continue the story and go back into that character and feeling what he is feeling.

 

I did the same thing with Red Dead Redemption, and that one was far more moving than GTA IV was. And I also had a particular gameplay-related incentive to do so. Since the game was about redemption, it made far more sense in my opinion to try and be as honorable as possible. But every now and again, I'd go on those relentless rampages upon the unsuspecting public and fighting against the law, completely removed from the story.

 

But ultimately, I gain the most fun out of feeling like there are emotional stakes involved. Just shooting a bunch of guys is ok, but shooting a bunch of guys who kidnapped Roman, my cousin? f*ck those guys. Die! Die! Die! Previous GTA games did that as well, so GTA has always been story oriented. It's part of what makes them so great. If you don't care about it at all, then I feel like you're missing a big part of what they are.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Mr. Darko

[Lewligan]

The day I start feeling guilt/regret/sadness for shooting a few pixelated characters on a game is the day I slot in to a comfy, new Straitjacket and book myself in to the local Loony Bin.

 

It's a game... and the objective of the game is going to involve killing a few fake, pixelated people.

I know that before I buy it.

I also know that it is, in fact, A GAME... and whatever happens on that game will not affect the day-to-day goings on in real life.

Neither will it affect my personality or mind-set.

 

If the fact I shot a few of these PIXELATED characters was gonna keep me up at night questioning my morals, I'd stick to FIFA and stay the f*ck away from GTA

[The Wereodile]

IV - 95% gritty, 5% funny - Grey,Real, Sad, and Brutal, changed too much in formula

 

Ehhhhh, I think the serious to funny ratio is a bit larger than that in IV. People underestimate just how damn silly it is at times. Even just the peds, with of course "Cheesy vaginas!", but also homeless guys running away from you screaming "You won't get my sperm, alien!!", cops chasing me shouting about shooting my dick off, and stuff on the radio like Lazlow shoving a hot dog vendor's face into the hot dog water. I mean, just look at all the ridiculous ads on billboards and on the radio. I'd say GTA IV is more 65% dark and gritty and 35% funny. Might just be my sense of humor though.

 

As far as the violence goes, I'm one of those people who laugh at it. I mean, I may cringe a bit at how some pedestrians meet their end, but I'm usually laughing at it at the same time. I think GTA IV had the perfect balance. I wouldn't mind it getting sillier, to be honest.

[neo92boi]

Thats fair ^

 

As for the rest of you guys ill make it real simple. I know, and many of you know its just a game right? Cool! When I mow down peds with either a vehicle my heart pumps and im enjoying the carnage! As do majority of you guys. But what if we could expand on that aspect....hmmm...make the violence feel real, more real than IV or RDR, or MP3?

 

If just add more soul AI and graphics to the peds and other things in the game it will make your experience that much more fun simply due to the Pulp nature of it all.

 

lets hear bones cracking, shirts with tire marks, blood dripping from eyes and ears, completley contourted bodies, gashes, realistic sized exit wounds from heavy calibur rounds.

Vigils, people crying. its this thatll make you go........hooolllyyy f*ck, I AM a f*cking monster, and watch me do it again!

 

Ill give you more if you need it.

 

you know how when a person is laying dead on the street in IV and 1 person will look and thats it, or a 2, and they'll just say a random quirp that has almost nothing to do with the body. How about people gathering in a mass, and calling ems? People uave all dofferent looks on their faces, some cry, some blank , some walking in circles on the phobes talking to someone about it.

[sddales]

Thats fair ^

 

As for the rest of you guys ill make it real simple. I know, and many of you know its just a game right? Cool! When I mow down peds with either a vehicle my heart pumps and im enjoying the carnage! As do majority of you guys. But what if we could expand on that aspect....hmmm...make the violence feel real, more real than IV or RDR, or MP3?

 

If just add more soul AI and graphics to the peds and other things in the game it will make your experience that much more fun simply due to the Pulp nature of it all.

 

lets hear bones cracking, shirts with tire marks, blood dripping from eyes and ears, completley contourted bodies, gashes, realistic sized exit wounds from heavy calibur rounds.

Vigils, people crying. its this thatll make you go........hooolllyyy f*ck, I AM a f*cking monster, and watch me do it again!

 

Ill give you more if you need it.

 

you know how when a person is laying dead on the street in IV and 1 person will look and thats it, or a 2, and they'll just say a random quirp that has almost nothing to do with the body. How about people gathering in a mass, and calling ems? People uave all dofferent looks on their faces, some cry, some blank , some walking in circles on the phobes talking to someone about it.

You may want to seek help. Or not

[jamieleng]

Ill give you more if you need it.

 

Please don't, you're beginning to scare me.

 

Euphoria makes the game feel mote brutal than almost any other game. The extra gore added in RDR & MP3 is as much as I need in a GTA game.

[Lewligan]

lets hear bones cracking, shirts with tire marks, blood dripping from eyes and ears, completley contourted bodies, gashes, realistic sized exit wounds from heavy calibur rounds.

Vigils, people crying. its this thatll make you go........hooolllyyy f*ck, I AM a f*cking monster, and watch me do it again!

In reference to my earlier post... maybe it's you who needs a trip to the Loony Bin.

Don't think you'd look out of place in a Straitjacket & Padded Room the way you're talking.

 

You're going in to scary detail there.

I'm all for making it look real, but I don't think I'd be disappointed if I didn't see a "contoured body with blood dripping from its ears".

I suggest you handcuff yourself to something very secure.

 

I don't want it to feel THAT f*cking real - it is a game at the end of the day.

The computer-generated world and real world are VERY different.. let's keep it that way.

[mikeflemming]

The day I start feeling guilt/regret/sadness for shooting a few pixelated characters on a game is the day I slot in to a comfy, new Straitjacket and book myself in to the local Loony Bin.

 

It's a game... and the objective of the game is going to involve killing a few fake, pixelated people.

I know that before I buy it.

I also know that it is, in fact, A GAME... and whatever happens on that game will not affect the day-to-day goings on in real life.

Neither will it affect my personality or mind-set.

 

If the fact I shot a few of these PIXELATED characters was gonna keep me up at night questioning my morals, I'd stick to FIFA and stay the f*ck away from GTA

Who you are as a person is comprised of both your genetics (nature) and your experiences (nurture). As you grow and gain experience through life those experiences shape you. Theoretically, every moment in your life contributes to the overall shape of who you are. And as a result, we are subconsciously influenced by everything - even if we don't think we are consciously.

 

Your mind is highly malleable and capable of adopting to the highest of extremes. Constantly being exposed to extremes dulls your sensory response to those extremes. This is the definition of desensitization.

 

You (nor I) may feel no emotional response when going on a GTA killing spree, but I'm pretty sure that's due to a cumulative desensitization from years of exposure to brutal violence. Imagine your grandparents being exposed to a few minutes of a video game killing spree. My grandparents would be traumatized for life and would not even remotely comprehend how most of us consider this to be entertainment.

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that I love connecting with characters in video games, and I love putting that aside and going on rampages. I just hope GTA5 makes the violence exciting, emotional and visceral without making it brutal and gory.

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

 

Who you are as a person is comprised of both your genetics (nature) and your experiences (nurture).  As you grow and gain experience through life those experiences shape you.  Theoretically, every moment in your life contributes to the overall shape of who you are.  And as a result, we are subconsciously influenced by everything - even if we don't think we are consciously.

 

Your mind is highly malleable and capable of adopting to the highest of extremes.  Constantly being exposed to extremes dulls your sensory response to those extremes.  This is the definition of desensitization. 

 

You (nor I) may feel no emotional response when going on a GTA killing spree, but I'm pretty sure that's due to a cumulative desensitization from years of exposure to brutal violence.  Imagine your  grandparents being exposed to a few minutes of a video game killing spree.  My grandparents would be traumatized for life and would not even remotely comprehend how most of us consider this to be entertainment.

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that I love connecting with characters in video games, and I love putting that aside and going on rampages.  I just hope GTA5 makes the violence exciting, emotional and visceral without making it brutal and gory.

So true. This probably the most insightful thread in the V section.

 

It seems that though GTA itself is distant from reality, the mental (thus chemical) effects on the human player are very real. An example of this is how coming from a GTA childhood had heavily desensitized me to violence in many ways. The GTA kill can feel pretty real at times compared to most games. A lot, but not too much for most handle (hence the ERSB rating "M").

 

It's also interesting how many GTA players including myself feel the dark need to respond to discontent with certain NPCs with more intense brutality than others (from what I've observed). R* is rather casual with this concept and lightens the mood with humor; but it's dark nonetheless. An example of this was how GTASA bred us as fans/players to hate the "Ballas". So when you killed a "Balla", you made sure it was more intense than if you just wanted to test you gun out on someone as you walked out of Ammu-Nation.

 

...just some thoughts

[Death2Drugs]

In all fairness during missions I particularly avoid killing innocent pedestrians and try to limit the number of cops I kill.

[GhostWryter]

Strangely enough, all those thoughts make me think about the Zombie phenomena.

 

The most extreme act for a human being is to kill another human being.

 

Zombies are technically humans but the fact that they're already dead and are hostile

 

completely erases the feeling of guilt. Just like an NPC is an accumulation of pixels. Killing a Zombie is actually an Act of Valor. (Great movie that was btw)

 

But to stay into videogaming I think the great majority would react differently regarding an old woman NPC slowing walking in the background as to a gang member NPC.

 

I don't think the degree of violence towards both NPCs would be the same. At least for most of us.

 

What's interesting is although Rockstar may have predefined a protagonist, how you play it will be guided by who you are.

 

We are perhaps desensitized by perpetual violence in videogames, movies and news.

 

But we do love it more than we would admit. And thumbs up to GTA, cuz it's a safe zone in which we can let off some steam or relief ourselves.

 

Cuz violence is simply innate even though each of us has our own level of tolerance towards what is acceptable or not.

 

 

Come to think of it, maybe GTA isn't as Gory/Brutal/Gritty as some think. It is you who choose it to be.

 

Head shot execution or Chainsaw massacre.

 

MY opinion: It is us who define the gameplay in terms of Emotion/Grit/Brutality. The game developer simply gave you all the options.

 

 

Abstract thread isn't it. Ha. from the usual 'We want Trailer 2 now!' Even though it's damn true.

[GTALegacy]

My first post here, but a long time GTA fan (hence, my username).

 

I understand what the OP is trying to say... To take gaming to the next level R* needs to bridge the gap from video game to reality... But I also disagree with what he/she is focusing on. They want the next GTA game to be more visceral (crunching bones, blood, gore) and I also fundamentally disagree with the whole notion games like GTA's ultimate goal should be to become simulators instead of the fun and entertaining pieces of software they currently are.

 

Game developers can go too far in certain respects and the game ends up being not fun anymore.

 

In fact, this was one of the major complaints about IV from long-time GTA fans. It was too serious, or too realistic in a lot of ways and they didn't have the same fun as they did in previous GTA games. However, I think (like a previous poster said) a lot of these complaints were because the players themselves have grown up, too. If they started with GTA III when they were 15 on the PS2 and are now 26 upon the arrival of GTA V... I would hope their experiences are a lot more varied than when they first started playing GTA and this will inevitably influence how they approach playing the next game e.g. going on rampages just isn't as thrilling as it used to be when they were 15 because they've matured in every sense of the word.

 

The GTA series has never been about simulating the real world even though its critics love to parrot the "It's a crime simulator that will turn kids into criminals!" mantra any chance they get

 

True, IV did shift more toward realism in a lot of respects, but at the same time it's still not close to being a simulator, or even a remotely realistic representation of the real world because of its sardonic and mocking tone.

 

A lot of people forget how "gamey" IV is underneath the so-called realism. For example, whenever Niko gets hurt, all he has to do is eat a hot dog and he is magically healed! Or how the cars don't use any gas, or how anybody can hop into a multimillion dollar helicopter and be buzzing the Rotterdamn Tower without hundreds of hours of flight training whatsoever... But we accept these things within the context of it being a GAME versus trying to simulate real life in any sort of realistic fashion.

 

That said, I feel there should be LIMITS to what games should and can portray as they move forward, and I also feel game developers (not just R*) do have a responsibility to the kinds of boundaries they push because the old saying, "just because you can doesn't mean you should" applies here in spades, IMO.

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

My first post here, but a long time GTA fan (hence, my username).

 

I understand what the OP is trying to say... To take gaming to the next level R* needs to bridge the gap from video game to reality... But I also disagree with what he/she is focusing on. They want the next GTA game to be more visceral (crunching bones, blood, gore) and I also fundamentally disagree with the whole notion games like GTA's ultimate goal should be to become simulators instead of the fun and entertaining pieces of software they currently are.

 

Game developers can go too far in certain respects and the game ends up being not fun anymore.

 

In fact, this was one of the major complaints about IV from long-time GTA fans. It was too serious, or too realistic in a lot of ways and they didn't have the same fun as they did in previous GTA games. However, I think (like a previous poster said) a lot of these complaints were because the players themselves have grown up, too. If they started with GTA III when they were 15 on the PS2 and are now 26 upon the arrival of GTA V... I would hope their experiences are a lot more varied than when they first started playing GTA and this will inevitably influence how they approach playing the next game e.g. going on rampages just isn't as thrilling as it used to be when they were 15 because they've matured in every sense of the word.

 

The GTA series has never been about simulating the real world even though its critics love to parrot the "It's a crime simulator that will turn kids into criminals!" mantra any chance they get

 

True, IV did shift more toward realism in a lot of respects, but at the same time it's still not close to being a simulator, or even a remotely realistic representation of the real world because of its sardonic and mocking tone.

 

A lot of people forget how "gamey" IV is underneath the so-called realism. For example, whenever Niko gets hurt, all he has to do is eat a hot dog and he is magically healed! Or how the cars don't use any gas, or how anybody can hop into a multimillion dollar helicopter and be buzzing the Rotterdamn Tower without hundreds of hours of flight training whatsoever... But we accept these things within the context of it being a GAME versus trying to simulate real life in any sort of realistic fashion.

 

That said, I feel there should be LIMITS to what games should and can portray as they move forward, and I also feel game developers (not just R*) do have a responsibility to the kinds of boundaries they push because the old saying, "just because you can doesn't mean you should" applies here in spades, IMO.

True. GTA is generally meant to stay "gamey"; but it certainly seems that the GTA series just inherently becomes more visceral with the quality of the graphics.

 

This leads to the question of whether or not the "Emotion, Grit, and Brutality" aspects of the series will get out of hand as the graphics and physics get better/more advanced.

[GTALegacy]

 

True.  GTA is generally meant to stay "gamey"; but it certainly seems that the GTA series just inherently becomes more visceral with the quality of the graphics. 

 

This leads to the question of whether or not the "Emotion, Grit, and Brutality" aspects of the series will get out of hand as the graphics and physics get better/more advanced.

Well, this leads us back to the notion game developers (and all purveyors of entertainment) have a responsibility with regard to the kinds of entertainment they produce and release to the masses. I'm not for censorship by any means, but like most things in life it is a two-way street and producers of entertainment like GTA that focus on the darker side of human nature need to be careful of how far they want to push things... If for no other reason it might adversely effect their bottom line, not to mention adhere to any sense of collective decency.

 

I don't know if anybody remembers the game "Custer's Revenge" in the '80s? It depicted a naked General Custer raping a Native American girl tied to a post as reward for killing hundreds of Braves. This was the days of blocky, 8-bit graphics, so of course, it wasn't remotely close to being "sexy"... But the fact the game developers included this as an integral part of the game is what made it disturbing because unlike the "Hot Coffee" of GTA:SA... CR was truly offensive on numerous levels compared to the Hot Coffee mod.

 

What is interesting is if R* really wanted to "go there" with the GTA franchise they could have done so already. We have the technology to depict limbs being blown off (Soldier of Fortune II) and other visceral, horrific things... Like rape, sodomy, etc... But there comes a point where even they know they can go too far and it would hurt sales. I don't know anybody who would buy a GTA game if the protagonist could kidnap and rape a (female) NPC off the street. Just like killing a hooker you wouldn't be forced to do this, but the fact they would include something as ugly as rape & torture is something I think even they know nobody would tolerate (low sales) and it might even get the game banned in certain territories.

 

The other thing that is interesting is games like GTA put players in the shoes of criminals whose arch enemy are the police and any kind of law enforcement (NOOSE; FIB)... But none of us have any problem with mowing down 50 uniformed cops with a SAW in order to complete a mission! I find this kind of "hypocrisy" odd, but telling since there is an inherent difference between battling armed SWAT officers and killing a defenseless hooker... Even if none of it is real. Hmm...

[ClareXoBearrx3R9]

What is smart phobes?

LOL ur a dick, im typing on my iphone so its a little problematic if I spell a word wrong or hit the wrong key.

 

@Jamieleng - absolutley but like all GTA's theres a balancing act with humor and violence and just not being funny and truly gritty.

 

III - 60% gritty, 40% funny - III has a wierd feeling to it

VC - 55% gritty , 45% funny - close to perfect

SA - 50% gritty, 50% funny -(why I regard it as best GTA)

LCS&VCS - 40% gritty, 60% Funny - Funny, tad bit more seriousness needed

IV - 95% gritty, 5% funny - Grey,Real, Sad, and Brutal, changed too much in formula

CTW - 30% gritty, 70% funny (Hwang was hilarious) It was on the DS...nuff said

V - Needs to be at least 60:40

What is CTW?

CTW = Chinatown Wars

[Blackous666]

[neo92boi]

Once Again Sorry ALL for my horrid spelling, my Iphone has a f*cked screen and Im lazy lol.

 

Im liking what I am seeing. You people actually think Im a loon when in all trueness Im just as sane as all of you GTA Players, the only difference is Im willing to go to that dark place and innovate. The more realistic and brutal the game is the more you will realize its just a game, we would become closer to adrenaline junkies. Its almost like the effect of a roller coaster. Why do we enjoy them? Because it simulates the effect of free fall, and induces G forces not felt on a day to day basis, and it gets you to the cusp of fear for your life even though you know You are safe at the end of all your logical conclusions. Why do we enjoy video games, because it takes us away from the harsh realities of the world. But we enjoy it even more when its seems as if we never left but we know we did. Thats what Im getting at. GTA can and must have its wackyness, but what if it looked almost 90% real? It scares some of you to think about it, but thus we have the roller coaster effect, think about falling off, think about that height and youll become frightened. Stop thinking and just do it. As with this, when you think about the brutality of it all you become detested to it, PLAY it and the feeling all so much more different. Think back to when you hopped from PS1 to PS2, or SNES to N64 or Dreamcast, it was euphoric for its ever process of making you feel like the world is more like REAL life. I think back to when I first Played MGS2 or Splinter Cell, and GTA IV , I felt a rush of sorrow, pitty, rage, and bliss all in one swift thought as I killed a merc, and snuk through the shadows and hid in the ambient downpour of the rain on the Tanker.

 

Maybe I need a straight jacket, or maybe you just need to stop being scared, and play a game thats compatible with the technology of your world to date. Just imagine how you would feel seeing a body under your cars hood moving realistically like a "meat bag" slowly as you peel off, thats brutal but it will be fun because its JUST A GAME!

 

Ask yourself this, in what other way could R* innovate that they havent done yet. THIS is one of them.

 

 

 

Here's an even ebetter exapmple of what I mean..... You know that funny feeling you get when you come down in free fall in your ass and stomache? Ever Felt that when you see Niko fall? If you have this is what I mean, expand on that physical and emotional attatchment to your character and intergrate it in ever aspect of gameplay and GTA V WILL BE ONE OF THE GREATEST GAMES EVER MADE BY MANKIND.

 

 

DOnt be scared guys, get on the ride....you know its gonna be fun...

 

OFF TOPIC:

And thanks to all for giving my thread props, this Is what I wish more people did, make a small seed of thought and blow it up, this is how many of the worlds greatest inventions and innovations have been made. I've been saying to this to my friend for a long time now..

 

We need somewhat of a Digital Aged Renaissance, our creativity as man has become stagnant, we need to all be a little Tony Stark, Steve Jobs, and Devinci in some way or another now, the world has become to too scared, and vanilla...

Edited September 12, 2012 by neo92boi

[Racecarlock]

Hey, throw in as much gore as you want. As long as I don't have to gas up my car, eat every half hour, and I don't have to stay in jail for my crimes, do whatever you want.

[GTALegacy]

@neo92boi

 

Depictions of extreme violence and brutality does not equal being more innovative, emotional or engaging. In fact, it has the exact opposite effect 99.9% of the time.

 

Let's use the example I presented above:

 

Do you think players should be able to kidnap and sexually assault male and female NPCs at will?

 

Do you think players should also be able to hold these NPCs in their safehouse(s) and torture them at will for their twisted amusement?

 

Forget the fact none of it is real. I'm asking you where do draw the line in terms of the kind of brutality and horror a video game can and should include?

 

I try not to judge, but if you need something like the above to get your "rush" then you can see why some people think you are a bit "off".

 

GTA is a game about theft, extortion, murder, kidnapping, assassinations, betrayal, etc... But even productions like this have a moral code they adhere to and why they can still pass the ESRB. It maybe rated "M" for adults, but it is on a medium (game consoles) primarily used by kids and teens. So, (I hope) it will never have the level of visceral brutality you want because then it crosses the line from being entertaining to something truly disturbing and offensive, IMO.

[JoeJoeMcTwist]

Our minds need constant stimulation. Mental food if you will. When your hungry you feel discomfort in your stomach. When your doing nothing, your mind is constantly saying do something, do something useful or entertain me. So, to shut up our minds or feed them we play video games. Video games work similar to drugs or alcohol. When you play a video game, you get an altered state of reality which gives you a sense of euphoria. When games and graphics become dated, we become immune to their effects, and need more of them to give us the same stimulation as they once gave us initially. So we buy more, newer games that can stimulate us.

 

Now, this same theory applies to gore, the more you see, the more you want or don't want for those that can't stomach it. The reason we find violent games so attractive is because of the all movies we've watched growing up depicting violence which is a reflection of the violent world we grew up in, which stems from thousands of years of humans committing violent acts to one another. We have a higher tolerance for physical violence than rape per say because our collective psyche is more desensitized to it. Basically rape is frowned upon, so we don't go there in our minds and explore that part of ourselves. Violence on the other hand is tolerated, as wars are still fought today. "It is justice to kill another man to save our own" is still the general mentality.

 

Back to gore. Gore is just another facet of violence, similar to a fetish. As I mentioned before, if you like gore, the more you see, the more your going to want to see and the harder it's gonna get to quench that thirst. As long as you keep it in the games and know its fiction, and detach yourself from that experience rather than let it sink into your subconscious (let it become a part of you), I guess it's ok. But watching too much gore will sink into your subconscious whether you like it or not. Sometimes when it's too real our minds cannot distinguish the difference between fiction and reality. Obviously you can, but your subconscious mind lives on a different plane.

 

Some people are stronger willed and don't let things get under but some won't even realize they've taken on traits from a video game character. It is true that everything we see, hear, and interact with can have an influence on us. Ask yourself, has it influenced you?

Edited September 13, 2012 by JoeJoeMcTwist

[rampage08]

Ive been thinking about this for a long time. You guys should all know about the infamous airport level on MW2. Now, what's your take on that, i know this is a little of topic since i didnt talk about GTA, but yeah i just want to know whats your respond. Im a little worried because im dont really feel disturbed about the level, though i didnt like playing that level.