AMD optimised?

[Finn 7 five 11]

 

Have you run GTA games on cards with the same performance from the respective brands to definitively make that comparison?

Actually yes, In all the benchmarks I saw, GTA has a higher FPS with Nvidia cards even if the Amd card is equally as powerful.

The better card will get a higher FPS, there are no cards that are equivalent, there will always be differences, the cards that get a higher FPS are better than the ones with lower FPS, card optimization doesn't really play into it much, Nvidia in general is a bit better than AMD for cards anyway, but the trade-off is that they are more expensive.

 

Overall i think the difference is pretty damn minimal.

[JohnnyBNL]

If you ask me, this game has to be optimized for any hardware..

[Prometheus]

 

I think it's because nvidia gives the test department these videocards. Some kind of a deal.

That make me think. I remember how NVidia wrote about the GTA V screenshots. Maybe GTA V will have PhysX? Or maybe GTA V will be "polished" for NVidia graphic cards as good as possible? Maybe there are GTA V exclusives for the new NVidia graphic card series, GTX700 series so for example "Everybody who buys a new GTX780 will get GTA V and this for a total price of $449". Well, we'll see it.

They did it with Mafia II, which made the game's graphics significantly better with nVidia GPUs than AMD's. As for the exclusivity, "logically" they may make that offer for the GPU with the most sales, which I assume is the GTX X60. Come on Carl CJ Johnsons Brother Brian, you're the finance expert here!

 

 

I remembered that it was mentioned a few times before the release that GTA IV support Multi-GPU. In fact Multi-GPU even decrease the performance of GTA IV. I'm not a fan of Multi-GPU (high temperatures, micro stuttering, etc.) but still I think it sucked for the users that had a GTX295 at the time of the release. In this case the GTX285 had the same or even a better performance compared to the GTX295.

I'm not completely sure, but I think till this day IV doesn't support multi-GPUs. At least CrossfireX.

[Shoumaker]

Well, that's a good topic there. I don't like it when games are optimized for specific graphic cards so in this case for AMD or NVidia. Here are some examples that annoys me: Skyrim have a better performance on AMD graphic cards and the anisotropic filtering scales nearly perfect compared to NVidia graphic cards with the same power. A extreme example: If you use DownSampling and all the possible overpowered features in Metro 2033 then NVidia graphic cards have up to 50% less performance compared to AMD graphic cards. GTA IV have sometimes 20-25% less performance on a HD7970 compared to a GTX680. Remember: the GTX680 is only 10% faster than the HD7970.

 

I could make a longer list with games that run better on AMD respective NVidia graphic cards but I better let it now. I just hope that AMD user are not as screwed as with the release of GTA IV on PC. If you look at the GTA IV section and then read the PC performance topics then you can see how user that bought GTA IV in 2008 ran the game with a High-End graphic card on low to mid settings. That's ridiculous. I think Rockstar learnt from their big mistakes of GTA IV but we've to assume that Max Payne 1 & 2 were focused on PC too so Rockstar was more or less forced to make such a masterpiece on PC. I hope Rockstar will at least learn how to make a game on PC that isn't a fail like GTA IV. I would love Rockstar if they make a good optimized PC version like they did with Max Payne 3.

Hope this is the case for GTA V, R* now know how to utilize the RAGE engine better anyways, Im hoping they are developing the game parallel to consoles instead of a port, then itll be fantastic

[Mig10]

Have you run GTA games on cards with the same performance from the respective brands to definitively make that comparison?

You are eating the advertising, just think a little bit.

[Shoumaker]

If you ask me, this game has to be optimized for any hardware..

Its just that this hast been the case in past gta games.

[theworldfamous]

I hope it's just better optimized in general.. IV shouldn't take the kind of system it takes to run decently

[Adriaan]

Have you run GTA games on cards with the same performance from the respective brands to definitively make that comparison?

You are eating the advertising, just think a little bit.

I'm not sure what that means. Please read the other posts on first page following that before trying to make witty remarks.

[Dilapidated]

I thought Max Payne 3 used PhysX (or at least had the option)? I have it on the PS3 so I can't tell if it does or not.

PhysX wasn't available in Max Payne 3 nor any R* game to date, in fact very few games have PhysX support. Here's a list of the current PhysX supported games.

[Adriaan]

Maybe GTA V will have PhysX?

Well RAGE seems to have its own physics system, I don't think they would implement PhysX but that would be a step even more backwards and would make AMD users rage over it... Like me. Because AMD can't use PhysX.

Hhmm... PhysX is a physics engine that uses the GPU to offload some of the work that would normally be handled by the CPU. It used to have support for other brands of cards, like AMD, but not anymore. On those machines it just performs the tasks on the CPU.

 

Who knows what RAGE's physics code does. Maybe it doesn't have any sort of GPU acceleration at all and uses the CPU entirely. Or, just like PhysX, it only supports Nvidia cards for GPU accelerated physics simulation. Maybe this would be a good question for a future Ask & Answered.

[r34ld34l]

GTA doesn't have PhysX, it have Havok/euphoria. And I belive GTA V will have it to, of course updated/optimized. PhysX is stupid because without dedicated card for it you are screwed, well you can't really have it running, because CPU will work harder than software based physics. While if having Havok/euphoria software based physics you must have a little better CPU for it to work properly. And yes, FPS can be different even up to 20FPS.

 

Having physic running on software is better, easier and less expensive for both parties, developers and gamers. Software based physic means it doesn't need dedicated hardware for it to work properly.

 

You can see here PhysX

 

 

 

And here Havok

 

 

 

@Op, yes usually Nvidia drivers are far better optimized for games, but AMD is closing to them really fast. It is matter of time when they will be equal (if they are equal, then AMD will be better because it is less expensive) or even better.

Edited September 9, 2012 by r34ld34l

[Prometheus]

GTA doesn't have PhysX, it have Euphoria. And I belive GTA V will have it to, of course updated/optimized. PhysX is stupid because without dedicated card for it you are screwed, well you can't really have it running, because CPU will work harder than software based physics. While if having Havok or Euphoria software based physics you must have a little better CPU for it to work properly. And yes, FPS can be different even up to 20FPS.

Ah yeah, isn't Euphoria a game animation engine?

 

Also I used PhysX in Mafia II, and it didn't affect the framerate that bad.

[r34ld34l]

 

GTA doesn't have PhysX, it have Euphoria. And I belive GTA V will have it to, of course updated/optimized. PhysX is stupid because without dedicated card for it you are screwed, well you can't really have it running, because CPU will work harder than software based physics. While if having Havok or Euphoria software based physics you must have a little better CPU for it to work properly. And yes, FPS can be different even up to 20FPS.

Ah yeah, isn't Euphoria a game animation engine?

 

Also I used PhysX in Mafia II, and it didn't affect the framerate that bad.

Yes it is, but without physic it wouldn't work. Like bullet hits your leg. I fixed that line, now it says havok/euphoria.

 

About Mafia 2, it depends when you played. If you played back then...

http://physxinfo.com/news/3728/mafia-ii-de...hmarks-roundup/

 

Now with newest drivers you probaly could get a bet FPS or worse because of more time for optimisation.

[Andreas]

Also I used PhysX in Mafia II, and it didn't affect the framerate that bad.

Do you have a AMD or NVidia graphic card? Btw why you aren't in the Zaibatsu group anymore?

[Prometheus]

 

Also I used PhysX in Mafia II, and it didn't affect the framerate that bad.

Do you have a AMD or NVidia graphic card? Btw why you aren't in the Zaibatsu group anymore?

At first I had an ATI, but it was DOA , now I (replaced with) have a nVidia graphics card.

 

As for the second question, pardon me, but what the hell are you trying to say? is that some kind of a slang word for some financial analysis/stocks or something?

[Adriaan]

Yes it is, but without physic it wouldn't work. Like bullet hits your leg. I fixed that line, now it says havok/euphoria.

Source? I am not aware of Rockstar licensing the tech from Havok for their physics code. It was used in L.A. Noire's engine, yes.

http://www.havok.com/content/la-noire

 

 

From what I can tell their physics code is made in-house by the RAGE Technology group, utilizing NaturalMotion's Euphoria to drive procedural character animation and character physics.

[Spider-Vice]

And yes, FPS can be different even up to 20FPS.

If you have a non-NVIDIA card, that is, because the PhysX gets rendered with the CPU, thus slowing your PC down to a crawl.

[GhostWryter]

@Below

 

Indeed.

Edited September 9, 2012 by GhostWryter

[Prometheus]

I think it's better to make a topic at the PC Performance forum itself, since these kind of questions belong there.

[Shoumaker]

 

I think it's better to make a topic at the PC Performance forum itself, since these kind of questions belong there.

Its just that we dont have much to talk about here promtheusx and no one checks that forum. Anyways, you guys remember when sanandreas starts it says (Nvidia, the way its meant to be played). Thats when I thought it was optimised for nvidia so I checked the benchmarks for four and it was still better for nvidia. (with the same performance). So thats how this topic came up.

Edited September 9, 2012 by shoumic

[Shoumaker]

 

I think it's because nvidia gives the test department these videocards. Some kind of a deal.

Actually, I saw nvidia post a tweet how awesome the screens were, did Amd comment?, i hope they did

 

Sorry for double post.

[Prometheus]

I think it's better to make a topic at the PC Performance forum itself, since these kind of questions belong there.

Its just that we dont have much to talk about here promtheusx and no one checks that forum. Anyways, you guys remember when sanandreas starts it says (Nvidia, the way its meant to be played). Thats when I thought it was optimised for nvidia so I checked the benchmarks for four and it was still better for nvidia. (with the same performance). So thats how this topic came up.

I thought he was talking about running IV, also there are some people contributing in that forum, it's somewhat active.

 

As for the optimization matter, that was way back on 2005. I don't think there's a possibility for that to happen again in R*'s next PC releases. Not to mention as finn4life said there's no such thing as same performance GPUs, there's always a slightly better and a slightly worse GPU.

[Andreas]

@PrometheusX: Yeah, that's right but here are some examples: The GTX680 is about 10% faster than the HD7970. In GTA IV the GTX680 is up to 30% faster than the HD7970. 10% is slightly faster but 30% is a lot faster. That's the reason why GTA IV was often called a NVidia game. Skyrim is a AMD game, Metro 2033 is a AMD game, Battlefield 3 is a NVidia game, GTA IV is a NVidia game, etc. etc.

[Shoumaker]

 

@PrometheusX: Yeah, that's right but here are some examples: The GTX680 is about 10% faster than the HD7970. In GTA IV the GTX680 is up to 30% faster than the HD7970. 10% is slightly faster but 30% is a lot faster. That's the reason why GTA IV was often called a NVidia game. Skyrim is a AMD game, Metro 2033 is a AMD game, Battlefield 3 is a NVidia game, GTA IV is a NVidia game, etc. etc.

if the ghz edition and pcs+ 7970 have higher clock speeds than the gtx 680, why do games still run faster on the 680 in most cases? because of the architechture?

[Andreas]

 

if the ghz edition and pcs+ 7970 have higher clock speeds than the gtx 680, why do games still run faster on the 680 in most cases? because of the architechture?

Different architectures works different. There are many reasons from hardware AND software site. From hardware site: the HD7970 has a 37% bigger memory bandwidth than the GTX680 but the texel-/pixel rate on the GTX680 are each 9% faster than the HD7970. Different software benefits from different things. If some programs benefit not from more memory but from faster memory then all graphic cards of the HD7000 series are faster than the graphic cards of the GTX600 series with similar (theoretically) performance. In LuxMark 2.0 (GPGPU) the HD7970 is about 3.4 times faster than the GTX680 but that's just the theoretically performance. In GTA IV the HD7970 is as fast as the GTX580. I have to test (or find a test) how the performance will change if I use resolutions higher than Full HD. As you might know AMD is in resolutions over 2560x1440 faster (up to 25%) than NVidia.

 

Max Payne 3 seems to be more neutral and I hope GTA V will it be too. Rockstar said after the release of GTA IV that they learnt from the mistakes of the game (if it comes to the PC version). Rockstar Toronto made the PC port and Rockstar said that the Vancouver studio makes now the PC versions. Don't ask me for a link because I don't know where I read it but I can remember it. Only problem is that the Vancouver studio was closed a few months ago. I know that the people from the Vancouver studio are now in the Toronto studio but still that makes me think. With Max Payne 3 Rockstar was forced to make a good PC version because the first two games of the Max Payne series were famous on the PC version. I hope Rockstar will put more effort into the PC version of GTA V. I would love to see tesselation and all the DirectX 11 features in that game without having this:

Edited September 9, 2012 by Carl CJ Johnsons Brother Brian

[Shoumaker]

Haha, if the port of gta v is as bad as iv, even those computers wont be able to run the game properly